With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Darko · 2026-10-03T07:51:59+0100

Yog said:
Besides beards, there should be at least two other genetic sequences identical in humans and minbari: the one responsible for perceiving Vorlons as angels, and the one responsible for telepathy. Those might be one sequence, of course. But they should be identical, as they are artificial and introduced into population by Vorlons.

Those modifications may be different enough due to the fact that they are two different species and thus needed different methods to introduce those in them.

It's also possible that they're hard to detect since the Vorlons would not have wanted it found out.

Yog said:
On the chapter - what is affecting mr. Li's partner? She's obviously trying to read Matthew's mind covertly, but if the process was being repelled by either the ring, or his passengers, I would expect him to be notified. Unless one of the souls is a P-12+ telepath (plausible) who is doing the blocking and not sharing with others (also, admittedly, plausible

I think that's just how she is.

Actually, most telepaths that don't have speaking roles are like that.

The reason for this could be either because Psi Corp trains them to be like this so that mundane people are uncomfortable around them, and because of that the divide between the two groups is maintained.

It's also possible that after a certain point they just stop being used to making facial expressions.

In Star Wars there's a species called the Gotal, and they have the ability to see the emotional states of people.

Because of this they speak in an emotionless, monotone voice, as well as not really making any facial expressions, and this makes those unfamiliar with them assume that they don't have emotions, but they do.

Because of their emotion reading ability, the Gotal don't need to express their emotions through voice or facial expressions, since their fellows can see their emotional state through their powers.

Telepaths in Babylon 5 could be similar.

They spend most of their time with other telepaths, so they most likely use telepathy to speak and express their emotions, so they don't need to smile, frown, snarl in order to show what they're feeling.

GhostKing 666 · 2026-10-03T08:14:15+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"'Beard Theory'?"

The male Psi Cop walks into my line of sight, a disarmingly friendly and curious expression on his face.

I smile back, nodding. "A tiny fraction of the male minbari-" Mayan gives the Psi Cop a look of profound disquiet. "-can grow beards, and the genetic sequences which make it possible are identical to the ones in humans. Minbari have a huge stigma against killing other minbari. My working theory is that someone working for the minbari government did a genetic analysis, realised that we have that in common, and called things off due to killing us now counting for their taboo against killing other minbari."

"Humans have a taboo against killing, too."

"Four hundred thousand murders on Earth last year alone. Do you know how many Minbar had?" He shakes his head. "Zero. You have to go back forty years before you can find one, and that was probably an accident, and the perpetrator appears to have killed himself immediately after checking that his victim was actually dead."

He considers that for a moment. "Is the beard thing widely known about?"

"No. But from what I've been told-" I gesture to Mayan, who is looking increasingly awkward. "-it would actually be unusual for the minbari government to actually tell people who didn't strictly need to know. The war would just be called off, and everyone would be expected to go along with it."

"I prefer to think-" Mayan is low-key glaring at me. "-that otherwise reasonable minbari came to regret the rash decisions they had taken in anger."

The Psi Cop smiles at her. "But.. this is something minbari might do?" He raises his eyebrow. "For real?"

"It is not… Wholly impossible. But as Matthew says, if it was so, that information would not have been shared. I would not know."

"'Beard Theory'. Hm." He nods to himself. "You should post that on the conspiracy boards, see what they make of it."

Beyond the very small chance that the only Minbari in Geneva(if not on the planet) isn't being watched like a hawk and the conversation being recorded by any number of different ways, this will certainly make its way up the EA government and Earth Force. An apparently plausible explanation for why the Minbari called off the war(if one that stretches belief for humans unless you understand how Minbari think).

Vaermina · 2026-10-03T08:18:34+0100

Mr Zoat said:
I frown, then shrug. From my reading, it seems like telepaths have a harder time keeping the thoughts of the people around them out of their heads when they're in close physical proximity. Maybe she has a headache?

Unless it focused solely on untrained telepaths your reading is wrong.

Mr Zoat said:
When I first met her, she did a light scan…" I raise my hands. "Not a problem, perfectly legitimate, a strange man walks up to you…" He nods. "Apparently, there's something about my mind that's very uncomfortable? Now, it might be that it affected her because she's only a P-Five… Or it might be that it scales with telepathic power, in which case, as a P-Twelve, it would be worse for you. And I don't want you to get a brain haemorrhage either. And I certainly don't want to be legally liable for it."

If it scaled with telepathic power the Vorlon that scanned you would have exploded.

Yog said:
Besides beards, there should be at least two other genetic sequences identical in humans and minbari: the one responsible for perceiving Vorlons as angels, and the one responsible for telepathy. Those might be one sequence, of course. But they should be identical, as they are artificial and introduced into population by Vorlons.

While its EU information, the genetic sequence used to give the Minbari telepathy was distinctly different from the one used on humans.

The Minbari actually had a prototype design that resulted in super telepaths which had to be diluted down and still resulted in a much higher then human average of powerful telepaths.

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-10-03T08:25:22+0100

Mr Zoat said:
8th April 2258
09:37 G.M.T. +1

An Asian man and a Nordic woman, both immaculately groomed with their hair locked in place.

Ah, I can picture them already. Ramrod posture, plastic hair and calm, neutral expressions tailor-designed to put people at ease around them. No doubt with matching suits of immaculately precise cut and discreet iconography.

"-that any protest I could have made would have changed anything."

I turn back to Mayan. "You're almost certainly right, but we'd have appreciated you trying. It would have showed that you were against it in a way that would actually have cost you something, and thus seemed genuine."

Although the likelihood of humans hearing about a single Minbari poet being outspoken about the war might have been pretty small, famous as she seems to be.

I hear the footsteps as the Psi Cops come closer.

"Why would that matter for building a relationship now?"

I bet the fact the two of them are ignoring the Crows is standing out, with every other person in the room perhaps suddenly sweating a little despite the air-conditioning.

"Trust requires dependability. Being angry because your head of state dies makes perfect sense, though I will emphasise that the Earth Alliance has a president who at any given time will be unpopular with at least half of the population and if he dies it's really not that big a deal." She looks mildly appalled. "Launching a jihad to destroy the species responsible seems like a massive overreaction, even if he was a really great guy. That makes no sense to us."

Admittedly, the Alliance president isn't also a religious head of state too. ...I hope not?

But having the pope-president killed by an apparently hostile alien species would get folks up in arms.

"But surely the government of the Earth Alliance would respond if your president was murdered?"

"Yes. We'd want the guilty parties handed over for trial. If the guilty party refused without a very good reason we might retaliate, or declare war, but I can't think of a situation where the goal would be to exterminate their species. And then… Stopping. You given any thought to Beard Theory?"

Minbari are evidently not ones for doing things by half, really. Especially when emotionally compromised.

"I do not think it would be enough to convince our leaders."

"Then ten years later we've got no idea why the Minbari Federation called it off. It's like sitting next to an old sea mine; we've got no idea what might set you off and no idea how to defuse you."

Especially if the very act of trying to defuse it triggers it.

"'Beard Theory'?"

The male Psi Cop walks into my line of sight, a disarmingly friendly and curious expression on his face.

Ah, I see their approach. come in all curious about an overheard discussion, sneakily 'encourage' the target to open up a little...

I smile back, nodding. "A tiny fraction of the male minbari-" Mayan gives the Psi Cop a look of profound disquiet. "-can grow beards, and the genetic sequences which make it possible are identical to the ones in humans. Minbari have a huge stigma against killing other minbari. My working theory is that someone working for the minbari government did a genetic analysis, realised that we have that in common, and called things off due to killing us now counting for their taboo against killing other minbari."

The Soul angle being a little harder to present to 'rational' people as a probable cause.

"Humans have a taboo against killing, too."

"Four hundred thousand murders on Earth last year alone. Do you know how many Minbar had?" He shakes his head. "Zero. You have to go back forty years before you can find one, and that was probably an accident, and the perpetrator appears to have killed himself immediately after checking that his victim was actually dead."

...Huh, that is impressive. Also slightly disturbing from a human point of view.

He considers that for a moment. "Is the beard thing widely known about?"

"No. But from what I've been told-" I gesture to Mayan, who is looking increasingly awkward. "-it would actually be unusual for the minbari government to actually tell people who didn't strictly need to know. The war would just be called off, and everyone would be expected to go along with it."

Leaving the enemy faction very confused and potentially developing complexes...

"I prefer to think-" Mayan is low-key glaring at me. "-that otherwise reasonable minbari came to regret the rash decisions they had taken in anger."

The Psi Cop smiles at her. "But.. this is something minbari might do?" He raises his eyebrow. "For real?"

Such is the nature of an alien species. Different biology, different psychology, different wants and needs...

"It is not… Wholly impossible. But as Matthew says, if it was so, that information would not have been shared. I would not know."

"'Beard Theory'. Hm." He nods to himself. "You should post that on the conspiracy boards, see what they make of it."

Oh god, just imagine the internet of this era... Probably a lot calmer by virtue of corporate and government control, but still plenty of crazies...

"I have enough crazy in my life, thank you." I glance at his partner, who is… Completely stone-faced. "Can I.. get you and your partner a coffee.?

His face goes back into 'polite professional' immediately. "Thank you, but no. We were hoping that you wouldn't mind answering a few questions for us."

And thus confirming that they're here because he's here, Mayan being incidental but of note.

"Am I under arrest?"

"No, sir."

"Then… Sure, you can ask. Would you like to sit down?"

Now, whether or not he'll answer truthfully, that depends on how nicely the crows ask their questions.

He smiles, nods, and sits down next to Mayan. I half turn to look at his colleague. "Ah, your partner?"

He shakes his head and waves his right hand dismissively. "She's fine."

Maintaining distance for overwatch if things turn hostile, eh?

I frown, then shrug. From my reading, it seems like telepaths have a harder time keeping the thoughts of the people around them out of their heads when they're in close physical proximity. Maybe she has a headache?

"Right, well, what do you want to talk about?"

They're in for a shock if they think they can take him in psychic combat, what with all his passengers chipping in. Assuming that's even a thing.

"We still have an investigation open on the disappearance of our colleague, Lyta Alexander. I understand that you spoke with her on the day she vanished?"

I nod. "Yes, that's correct. I… Already spoke to Babylon Five security about it… Are they not sharing?"

And putting a completely innocent spin on his side of the story, of course. Not that Garibaldi has been fooled, as we saw.

"No, they…" He shrugs. "They are, but she was our colleague. We all went to the same training schools… We just want to dot out Is and cross our Ts."

I frown. "Ah, sorry, this is probably a stupid question, but why would a P-Five go to Psi Cop training school? I thought you all had to be P-Twelve?"

"We do, but the initial training to control our abilities is the same."

And if someone should happen to have their PSI level discreetly edited down to make them seem less threatening... Well, that's a fine conspiracy theory.

"Ah." I nod. "Right."

"When you first met, did she seem agitated to you?"

...Just a little, Eh?

I nod firmly. "Yes."

"Did she say 'why'?"

A subtle question, nudging him to think of the encounter while he and his partner peek into his head, eh?

"She told me that she wasn't happy about being called back to Earth. I don't know if it was the inconvenience, or the fact that she resented being used for intelligence gathering…"

I raise my eyebrows slightly, and-. He shakes his head.

Ah, and here comes the entirely plausible cover story.

"Most species have minds that work within certain bounds. The more similar to ours they are, the less… Difficult it is making contact with them. I can read a centauri's mind -or…" He smiles at Mayan. "With beards or not, a minbari's mind- far more easily than I can a gaim's. We don't have any records for what happens when a human mind makes contact with a vorlon mind. We just wanted to be completely certain that there weren't any negative health consequences for her. And… When it comes to things that affect the mind, it's… It can't be voluntary, because when something goes wrong, it affects the telepath's judgement. It's a little uncomfortable, but it's better than getting a brain haemorrhage and not finding out about it until it's too late."

Oh yes, very plausible indeed. 'Compromised Judgement', indeed...

"Ah." Yes, that would make sense.

Anyone want it weigh in?

Now, what will the Crows hear, I wonder?

Plausible. / If it was standard procedure, why didn't the station personnel put her on the shuttle? / I think it's nice that they care about her.

The Psi Cop behind me takes a step backwards. The one-.

Ah, a very insightful quorum. Last one's kind of optimistic about it, at least.

"I'm.. sorry, dreadfully rude of me. You obviously know who I am, but I didn't ask your name?"

"No, I-" He shakes his head. "-should have introduced myself. Zhang Li. And you're Matthew Underwood, and, ah..?"

As if he doesn't know who she is. But for the sake of appearances...

He glances at Mayan.

She inclines her head. "Shaal Mayan."

Yes, she's not liking the attention, is she?

"Pleased to make your acquaintance." He turns back to me. "Mister Underwood, it would help us a great deal if you would allow us to view your memories of your encounter with Miss Alexander. Anything at all that's… Still in your mind that you don't necessarily consciously recall, might give us a vital clue about her current location."

Oh, yes, very sensible-sounding. Though I suspect if he went along with them on that, he'd quietly disappear.

"Ah…" I shrug. "I don't have a problem with that, but I'll need you to sign a liability waver first."

He blinks. "Excuse me?"

Heh. Probably the first time anyone's suggested that to them.

"When I first met her, she did a light scan…" I raise my hands. "Not a problem, perfectly legitimate, a strange man walks up to you…" He nods. "Apparently, there's something about my mind that's very uncomfortable? Now, it might be that it affected her because she's only a P-Five… Or it might be that it scales with telepathic power, in which case, as a P-Twelve, it would be worse for you. And I don't want you to get a brain haemorrhage either. And I certainly don't want to be legally liable for it."

Certainly, we can be sure he's just spinning a yarn to make his mind seem a more dangerous place to go poking around in, but with his passengers about, they could probably mount a telepathic defence.

He nods slowly. "I'll need to talk to our lawyers, but I'm sure we can work something out. How long are you staying on Earth?"

I gesture to Mayan. "Mayan is doing a talk in a few days at the University of Zurich, so at least that long. After that, I don't really have any plans, but I've got a mail box on Babylon Five if you can't get hold of me."

"I'm sure I can get in touch before then." He stands, nodding to Mayan. "Enjoy your stay on Earth."

I suspect that would be a first, given what I hear about PSI Corps attitudes...

And no doubt the wheels are already spinning with concern, whether in his head alone or anyone he's in contact with. I don't doubt a casual contact like this would have a couple of agents maintaining discreet observation and contact, both via mundane and telepathic routes. More eyes will be on Matthew while he's here...

Darko · 2026-10-03T08:41:29+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
Ah, I can picture them already. Ramrod posture, plastic hair and calm, neutral expressions tailor-designed to put people at ease around them

Though they utterly fail at putting people at ease.

Chojin Patriarch said:
No doubt with matching suits of immaculately precise cut and discreet iconography.

'Discreet' is not a word I'd use with them.

Especially with the gloves.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Admittedly, the Alliance president isn't also a religious head of state too. ...I hope not

Well Sheridan did become a religious figure in his own way.

Chojin Patriarch said:
The Soul angle being a little harder to present to 'rational' people as a probable cause

Psi Corp may actually believe in the existence of the soul.

They can perform a scan for someone when they're dying in order to comfort them or extract information.

The one time we saw this happen, the dead guy literally went into a tunnel of light.

It's possible that members of Psi Corp can actually have some spiritual beliefs.

BR549 · 2026-10-03T08:48:05+0100

Darko said:
Psi Corp may actually believe in the existence of the soul.

They can perform a scan for someone when they're dying in order to comfort them or extract information.

The one time we saw this happen, the dead guy literally went into a tunnel of light.

It's possible that members of Psi Corp can actually have some spiritual beliefs.

It's been quite awhile, but as I recall, some Psi Corps (note, 'Corps' is both the singular and the plural) telepaths become...intrigued to the point of addiction with scanning the mind of someone who is dying, and trying to 'ride along' for as long as they possibly can, to the point it becomes a real possibility that the telepath dies along with them.

And I think - again, it's been awhile - that Bester was one of those.

Darko · 2026-10-03T08:53:27+0100

BR549 said:
It's been quite awhile, but as I recall, some Psi Corps (note, 'Corps' is both the singular and the plural) telepaths become...intrigued to the point of addiction with scanning the mind of someone who is dying, and trying to 'ride along' for as long as they possibly can, to the point it becomes a real possibility that the telepath dies along with them.

And I think - again, it's been awhile - that Bester was one of those.

Yeah, I think it was mentioned that Bester did more deathbed scans than anyone else and that's why he is the way he is.

Yog · 2026-10-03T09:16:11+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
Certainly, we can be sure he's just spinning a yarn to make his mind seem a more dangerous place to go poking around in, but with his passengers about, they could probably mount a telepathic defence.

He actually has multiple layers of telepathic defenses:
1) He can't think of his name. Anyone reading his mind and trying to find his name will be knocked out - if this defense works on DC angels and martians, it sure as hell will work on B5 humans
2) He has no soul - B5 telepathy seems to be tied to the soul in some way, as shown by non-corporeal beings having it, and souls of the departed maintaining it. It's plausible that telepathy interacts with the soul. He lacks (some of) the parts telepathy would interact with
3) He is biologically distinct from B5 humanity and pretty much all other races save the first ones - he has no genetic modifications introduced by the First Ones. At least some of those deal with telepathy and telepathic perception. It's plausible that the lack of those modifications make it harder for B5 human telepaths to interact with him
4) He is mainlining orange light. Glow manipulation is either the domain of First ones, or ic an OCP, depending on how the crossover is set up. Telepathic interactions with the Glow even one degree removed might have negative effects.
5) His ring is passively altering his perception via a telepathic / magical interface - automatic translation features and how he could see Delenn's head marking. It's plausible that telepathic scan as performed by B5 humans interacts with that interface and the ring's defenses object or just passively interfere with the scan
6) He has done Ophidian Eyes at least once in the story. If he's an only Glow manipulator in the universe, it's plausible that he has Ophidian's attention. If someone reads his mind, they might get it too. Which might not end well for them
7) His passengers - at least some of them are telepaths, and it would not surprise me at all if there are old race members in there quietly watching, with PSI ratings of 12+.

Mr Zoat · 2026-10-03T10:03:38+0100

lancelot said:
Any plans on erasing that sleeper programming considering it's basically death of personality?

Ah... He has no reason to know about it, so it would rely on Lyta telling him when she comes back.

BoML · 2026-10-03T10:08:34+0100

Here we go...

Mr Zoat said:
An Asian man and a Nordic woman, both immaculately groomed with their hair locked in place.

Not Bester. Lucky for everyone involved.

Mr Zoat said:
"-that any protest I could have made would have changed anything."

I turn back to Mayan. "You're almost certainly right, but we'd have appreciated you trying. It would have showed that you were against it in a way that would actually have cost you something, and thus seemed genuine."

Of course, that's wholly depended on people even hearing about it, and as has been pointed out, minbari don't actually have public media presence.

Mr Zoat said:
"Why would that matter for building a relationship now?"

"Trust requires dependability. Being angry because your head of state dies makes perfect sense, though I will emphasise that the Earth Alliance has a president who at any given time will be unpopular with at least half of the population and if he dies it's really not that big a deal." She looks mildly appalled. "Launching a jihad to destroy the species responsible seems like a massive overreaction, even if he was a really great guy. That makes no sense to us."

No, it wouldn't. Because human history has seen examples of such already, and they would prefer not to repeat the experience. Unfortunately, the situation now is ripe for an...upgrade, at any cost.

Mr Zoat said:
"But surely the government of the Earth Alliance would respond if your president was murdered?"

Yes, but it would have been measured response.

Mr Zoat said:
"I do not think it would be enough to convince our leaders."

"Then ten years later we've got no idea why the Minbari Federation called it off. It's like sitting next to an old sea mine; we've got no idea what might set you off and no idea how to defuse you."

Again, Mayan probably never even imagined that she would be counted among the Warrior Caste, being whatever Caste she is. The separation between the two is rather...sharp.

Mr Zoat said:
"Humans have a taboo against killing, too."

*snort* Wow, I'm surprised you didn't stroke out from saying that, Psi Cop.

Mr Zoat said:
"Four hundred thousand murders on Earth last year alone. Do you know how many Minbar had?" He shakes his head. "Zero. You have to go back forty years before you can find one, and that was probably an accident, and the perpetrator appears to have killed himself immediately after checking that his victim was actually dead."

He considers that for a moment. "Is the beard thing widely known about?"

"No. But from what I've been told-" I gesture to Mayan, who is looking increasingly awkward. "-it would actually be unusual for the minbari government to actually tell people who didn't strictly need to know. The war would just be called off, and everyone would be expected to go along with it."

...yeah...the difference is rather stark. But you have to think about the spirt and the letter of the law. Minbari, soon, are about to find the wonderful idea about keeping the letter and utterly ignoring the spirit of the law. Or taboo.

Mr Zoat said:
He shakes his head and waves his right hand dismissively. "She's fine."

I frown, then shrug. From my reading, it seems like telepaths have a harder time keeping the thoughts of the people around them out of their heads when they're in close physical proximity. Maybe she has a headache?

Says a lot about this new Psi Cop. His partner is either less skilled or more sensitive than he is...or he is just has that much better poker face.

Mr Zoat said:
"No, they…" He shrugs. "They are, but she was our colleague. We all went to the same training schools… We just want to dot out Is and cross our Ts."

I frown. "Ah, sorry, this is probably a stupid question, but why would a P-Five go to Psi Cop training school? I thought you all had to be P-Twelve?"

They all get the same basic training, the powerful ones get the...special training.

Mr Zoat said:
Anyone want it weigh in?

Plausible. / If it was standard procedure, why didn't the station personnel put her on the shuttle? / I think it's nice that they care about her.

The Psi Cop behind me takes a step backwards. The one-.

Again, she reacted, while he didn't. Is she actively probing, or is she just that sensitive?

Mr Zoat said:
"Pleased to make your acquaintance." He turns back to me. "Mister Underwood, it would help us a great deal if you would allow us to view your memories of your encounter with Miss Alexander. Anything at all that's… Still in your mind that you don't necessarily consciously recall, might give us a vital clue about her current location."

"Ah…" I shrug. "I don't have a problem with that, but I'll need you to sign a liability waver first."

He blinks. "Excuse me?"

*snort* Wow, not used to being in that position, my guy?

Mr Zoat said:
"When I first met her, she did a light scan…" I raise my hands. "Not a problem, perfectly legitimate, a strange man walks up to you…" He nods. "Apparently, there's something about my mind that's very uncomfortable? Now, it might be that it affected her because she's only a P-Five… Or it might be that it scales with telepathic power, in which case, as a P-Twelve, it would be worse for you. And I don't want you to get a brain haemorrhage either. And I certainly don't want to be legally liable for it."

He nods slowly. "I'll need to talk to our lawyers, but I'm sure we can work something out. How long are you staying on Earth?"

That depends on how big of a mess Shaal Mayan's talk ends up creating. If it goes wrong, he might have to make haste out of Earth space fast.

Mr Zoat said:
I gesture to Mayan. "Mayan is doing a talk in a few days at the University of Zurich, so at least that long. After that, I don't really have any plans, but I've got a mail box on Babylon Five if you can't get hold of me."

"I'm sure I can get in touch before then." He stands, nodding to Mayan. "Enjoy your stay on Earth."

Here's hoping. Though there are groups who could make this an even bigger mess.

That went better than I expected.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Darko

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BR549

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