With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[NameOrdane]

Like, as another simple example; Superman almost never bothers to learn how to fight. He never studies martial arts or anything like that, which leaves him open in the rare but inevitable circumstances where he runs up against someone that he can't just brute force his way through.

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That's already been addressed in the story. It was a whole plot point in the beginning of the story that Dinah teaching Kon was detrimental, as martial arts for baseline humans is useless with super strength. The only person who could teach him was Diana, and she learned through decades of experience.

Superman is improving himself now though, the moment he got access to Torquasm from Overgirl, which is the only meaningful way to train without sparring with Diana (which he did IIRC). Or Barda.

Edit: but yes, Hal could be doing more. I do remember him improving his constructs over time at least once.

 

[Neruz]

That's already been addressed in the story. It was a whole plot point in the beginning of the story that Dinah teaching Kon was detrimental, as martial arts for baseline humans is useless with super strength. The only person who could teach him was Diana, and she learned through decades of experience.

Superman is improving himself now though, the moment he got access to Torquasm from Overgirl, which is the only meaningful way to train without sparring with Diana (which he did IIRC). Or Barda.

Edit: but yes, Hal could be doing more. I do remember him improving his constructs over time at least once.

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I'm talking in general, in this story specifically thanks to Paul pointing out the flaws the various members of the Justice League have been addressing some of their issues.

 

[Mr Zoat]

"acquire"

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Thank you, corrected.

... maybe I'm having a blonde moment, but why are the (yellow) crystals disrupting Paul's orange constructs?
Green sure, noted canon weakness. Orange lacks that weakness.
Which implies that it's an innate feature of the crystals, rather than their color (which might stem from their creation method), and that would be... rather a big deal.

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There is a reason, and they work it out during the next episode. Fear projection wouldn't work on Lantern Jordan either.

Yes, they need to put in a lot of work to properly understand the mechanisms they're reproducing, but as we saw in the previous chapter, Hal is entirely capable of creating a MIM-104 Patriot.

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Eh... He can create a construct that looks like an MIM-104 Patriot. There's no actual fuel or explosive in there, it's just a construct.

This makes sense from an external narrative perspective as it makes stories standalone and thus allows new people to get into things at any point without needing to work their way through a vast amount of prior stuff in order to understand what is going on. But from an in-universe perspective it is an inexplicable blind spot that unnecessarily hampers the heroes, and from an in-universe perspective Paul is not wrong to lambast them for it.

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The issue is that time spent learning new skills is time not spent helping people with the skills you already possess.

The problem Paul has is that they don't invest the time, despite the fact that it's not really that major of an investment in the grand scheme of things and would exponentially increase their effectiveness. Even just six hours a week spent studying the relevant technologies would go a long way towards expanding their capabilities..

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Yeah, that.

It would take very little actual investment of time for Superman to learn even the basics of hand-to-hand fighting, but he never does, even after that lack bites him in the ass.

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Comic Superman from the era where I read comics and this story's Superman have both studied Torquasm. It actually required a lot of investment, not so much in time, but in finding an actual source when everyone who knew the style is dead due to Krypton exploding.

 

[Neruz]

Comic Superman from the era where I read comics and this story's Superman have both studied Torquasm. It actually required a lot of investment, not so much in time, but in finding an actual source when everyone who knew the style is dead due to Krypton exploding.

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Which doesn't really make sense given that most iterations of Superman have a Fortress of Solitude with an AI that has everything Jor-El could gather on Kryptonian culture, which should include things like Kryptonian martial arts. But that whole aspect is frequently criminally underutilized in general, with the Fortress's knowledge base being used only as a macguffin when there's no other way to learn something.

 

[Darko]

Which doesn't really make sense given that most iterations of Superman have a Fortress of Solitude with an AI that has everything Jor-El could gather on Kryptonian culture, which should include things like Kryptonian martial arts. But that whole aspect is frequently criminally underutilized in general, with the Fortress's knowledge base being used only as a macguffin when there's no other way to learn something.

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Reading things from a manual is useful, but it's not a guarantee that you'll be able to do what it describes.

The AI himself may not have been of much help, since if Jor-El didn't know the martial art himself, then his AI may not have been able to give pointers.

 

[Neruz]

Reading things from a manual is useful, but it's not a guarantee that you'll be able to do what it describes.

The AI himself may not have been of much help, since if Jor-El didn't know the martial art himself, then his AI may not have been able to give pointers.

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My brother in christ, martial arts manuals are literal things that exist. Do they convey perfect understanding of the subject? No. Are they better than nothing? Absolutely. And I refuse to believe that a civilization as advanced as Krypton's doesn't have something better than drawn pictures.

 

[boo600]

Like I said; it's not easy, it would take an intentional effort and investment of time. But it's absolutely doable, and given the stakes there is no good in-universe reason to not invest that effort and time at least a little bit.

But comic book superheroes tend to have a very cavalier attitude towards their roles, just sort of assuming that they'll be able to handle anything that happens without needing to worry about it. To a degree this is understandable, but they tend to retain that attitude even after they've run into situations that they couldn't handle, so from an in-universe perspective it comes across as a degree of hubris that would make ancient Greek philosophers waggle their finger something fierce.

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Oh, I'm not disagreeing, just categorizing for bookkeeping purposes. Hey, remember that time that Roy shot a machine that let an Elder God/New Titan thing (Siivaa, the dancer who destroys the universe), nearly getting the entire universe destroyed or at least him and his team murdered on the spot? To get out of a fight with a squad that OL totally outclassed even when they turned him into an octopus?

Roy wanted to employ basic fucking hindsight, and ended up sold on 'magic sensors' in a set of magic armor. Literally information first, protection second, firepower last. And remember Ollie's response?

"Well, bad days happen, and you make mistakes, but that's no reason to try and learn from them in a job that's risky to your life and where failure means other people - innocent people, usually - die, often horribly. And nearly destroying the universe has a nearly, so there's no reason to ever change your approach!"

Fuck, I swear that if he said that in front of the Team, they should have beaten him into the ground. That lack of care for their own damn lives, and for protecting people, supposedly the motivation of any good superhero?

I swear that being a costumed vigilante is just a prolonged midlife crisis for that man. (SPEND AN HOUR IN ATLANTIS SHOPPING FOR WARDS BEYOND ANTI MAGIC YOU FUCKING IMBECILE LITERAL PRETEENS MANAGE BETTER WHEN THEY PLAY D&D AND I'VE SEEN THOSE MORONS SELL THEIR SOULS TO EVIL OUTSIDERS FOR POWER. HOW ARE YOU WORSE THAN THESE IDIOTS) Except that every other League Member also manages to give that impression, so instead it's just clear that Smiley has been shaping them from the sidelines (even if he can't directly alter their minds), and that they fulfill his credo and goals perfectly.

And let's not forget putting off mind-control detecting tech, which (with Mars next door and Lantern databases for the Watchtower [a Lantern station]) they basically had lying around to the point it only took them a week to implement it after Paul forced them to recognize it could get them all killed... more than a full goddamn year after the entire league was controlled by the fucking Light (mainly Klarion and Savage, the genocide buddies WHO THE LEAGUE KNOW ARE LIKE THAT). And some of them went missing for ten hours. You know, the ones strong enough to stand in for nukes or other genocide-capable weapons.

Never having any of them die seems to make them feel above all consequence and review, and being able to keep their activities secret from the UN (which has no actual way of punishing or controlling them anyways) isn't fucking helping. They were avatars of anti-accountability and corruption before Nabu ever woke up, I swear... though given that the central premise of the series is child soldier black ops, I suppose that was always obvious.

Because damn, looking back... legally Queen Bee was in the clear to murder these black ops children every time they showed up in Bialya. As opposed to having Martian Manhunter (invisibility+shapeshifting+telepathy, all of which he is much more experienced with than M'gann) plus maybe the Flash do it, and only having the Team do 'quiet' missions with non-mission time spent covering the Leaguer's cities for them, giving the League more time to do said missions themselves with a black mask on or whatnot. "We want responsibility, and us fighting is socially acceptable?" Hey, how's "please cover my home city of Metropolis/Gotham/Central City/etc" for trust and responsibility? I think that might've scratched that itch!

Forget about their history of irresponsibility, like not checking Connor for telepathic implanted commands from the start. Or the only therapist available not being an accredited therapist, and also being part of the League. (Though Black Canary, to her credit, cared and was good at listening and commenting... though her being part of the League should have been a clear conflict of interests. What if the League was part of a problem stressing these kids out?)

 

[Mr Zoat]

Oh, I'm not disagreeing, just categorizing for bookkeeping purposes. Hey, remember that time that Roy shot a machine that let an Elder God/New Titan thing (Siivaa, the dancer who destroys the universe), nearly getting the entire universe destroyed or at least him and his team murdered on the spot? To get out of a fight with a squad that OL totally outclassed even when they turned him into an octopus?

Roy wanted to employ basic fucking hindsight, and ended up sold on 'magic sensors' in a set of magic armor. Literally information first, protection second, firepower last. And remember Ollie's response?

"Well, bad days happen, and you make mistakes, but that's no reason to try and learn from them in a job that's risky to your life and where failure means other people - innocent people, usually - die, often horribly. And nearly destroying the universe has a nearly, so there's no reason to ever change your approach!"

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Whaw. I do not remember writing that. I'm actually going to have to do a reread, aren't I?

 

[boo600]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/WithThisRingEpisode159

Ripples. It was actually fairly recent; Siivaa and the Deep 6? I even had a scathing, lengthy retort against OIlie later, because... well, he basically told Paul (upon finding out THE ENTIRE FUCKING UNIVERSE WAS ALMOST DESTROYED) that he shouldn't be pawning off magic armor on Roy, and that mistakes happen, but he should date/fuck his girlfriend more.

Paul.

Who just told him that he sees her at least 3 times a week, during the anti-life crisis where she mostly lives away from Earth. Paul, who has innate knowledge of his own desired and of ALL of Jade's spectrum-emotions whenever he so much as glances at her. Who has repeatedly chosen to focus more and more on his relationship with Jade without Ollie's micromanagement, and who has never pursued numerous paths to power from hunting down rare, nonsapient monsters for contructs to examining his unique potential for orange-light based magic, due to his unique soul (you have spoken about this in the past).

Obviously, now that he has the Ophidian, he can't cover every hole in his defenses (or his struggles stretch even more disbelief). But doylistically... this man is vibing. He is in perfect health at all times, sleeps at will and can ignore sleep, is rich, can conjure whatever food he wants and cooks to refine his skill and enjoy perfect meals... He's taking care of himself and his Jade-and-Alan-based relationships, and occasionally talking to his friends from the Team. He does not need to be told to prioritize his girlfriend, and context of the conversation or no, Ollie is 'kind of' a piece of shit for saying Roy shouldn't improve using hindsight in a dangerous job that revolves around protecting people's lives.

Basically, he lives in Smiley-land.

Edit: Here's the conversation I'm mad about. And... to be clear, Paul doesn't respond by drilling in 'so the universe was going to blow up,' which is why I didn't immediately start calling for Ollie's head. But... Roy mostly wanted information-gathering capabilities. As opposed to his canon approach of 'strap more gun to my arm, fam.' And Ollie's response was to tell Paul to fuck off, and that his evaluation made him realize that he doesn't need to try, basically - practically blaming him for his poor performance during the League Training Exercise.

And it's part of a larger pattern, you know? A consistent one, for Ollie and for the League... and it gets worse when you consider who he's saying that to.

How about just asking Hinon what she thinks the biggest weaknesses in his kit are, and how she'd deal with them if she knew what she knows?

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Paul is actually Not Grasping Constantly For Power, actually. Very well. So well, he hasn't even asked for basic prepatory advice from the allied superintelligence he actually likes, who knows him well enough to make him a special ring that's better for him in subtle ways... that can only be made by a Maltusian who knows their ring-slinger very well, apparently.

Like, this is the guy you're giving this speech to? After the fucking universe nearly got murked?

Ollie shouldn't be in charge of protecting people, is what I'm saying. He should not be a superhero/cop-but-good-actually/fireman, because wow.

(And it makes sense that they have flaws... but for League members who have these flaws, after over a decade in the field, and after being mind controlled and used as weapons by genocidal supervillains? Even if they don't know a genocide happened... they don't look good. They actually look willfully, mulishly incompetent... which is because that's kind of what they are, when it comes to infringing on Batman's Prep Time. It's... really just canon-accurate storytelling, but it sucks every time we see them refusing to grow beyond it, because you write them well and make them likable... and then they pull bullshit like this, and pass it off as wisdom)

 

[Darko]

My brother in christ, martial arts manuals are literal things that exist. Do they convey perfect understanding of the subject? No. Are they better than nothing? Absolutely. And I refuse to believe that a civilization as advanced as Krypton's doesn't have something better than drawn pictures.

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And?

As I mentioned: sometimes people can't pick up skills just by reading about them.

 

[Neruz]

And?

As I mentioned: sometimes people can't pick up skills just by reading about them.

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Which would be fine, except as far as we are shown he almost never even tries.

And as Zoat mentioned; the few times that he does try, he succeeds.

 

[boo600]

I mean, credit where it's due, he did learn Torquasm Vo and Rao from Overgirl when she showed up, instead of saying "She's a Nazi!" and ignoring the only useful thing that was in her brain at the time.

I'm more upset by the Fortress explicitly having anti-kryptonite shields, and Clark just... never asking... for over a decade of being Superman, actively... about his hard counter made of his birth planet, from the AI patterned after his birth father (who was a scientist who's biggest work we know of was predicting Krypton's fall - caused by being converted into Kryptonite), who he talks to instead of avoiding.

 

[Neruz]

I mean, credit where it's due, he did learn Torquasm Vo and Rao from Overgirl when she showed up, instead of saying "She's a Nazi!" and ignoring the only useful thing that was in her brain at the time.

I'm more upset by the Fortress explicitly having anti-kryptonite shields, and Clark just... never asking... for over a decade of being Superman, actively... about his hard counter made of his birth planet, from the AI patterned after his birth father (who was a scientist who's biggest work we know of was predicting Krypton's fall - caused by being converted into Kryptonite), who he talks to instead of avoiding.

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Clark not covering his kryptonite weakness does occasionally get an explanation; he intentionally leaves the weakness open because it gives his enemies an easy and known exploit to use, and he knows that if he covered the weakness then they'd just come up with some new way to get at him that he wouldn't know how to deal with.

It's not a great explanation, but it is at least something.

 

[Darko]

I'm more upset by the Fortress explicitly having anti-kryptonite shields, and Clark just... never asking... for over a decade of being Superman, actively... about his hard counter made of his birth planet, from the AI patterned after his birth father (who was a scientist who's biggest work we know of was predicting Krypton's fall - caused by being converted into Kryptonite), who he talks to instead of avoiding

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Clark not covering his kryptonite weakness does occasionally get an explanation; he intentionally leaves the weakness open because it gives his enemies an easy and known exploit to use, and he knows that if he covered the weakness then they'd just come up with some new way to get at him that he wouldn't know how to deal with

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Another explanation I've seen, albeit in a fanfic, is that until a perfect counter and defense against mind control is created, or that Clark is a 100% sure he won't turn evil, he wants to have a weakness so that he can be stopped.

This actually fits with his character.

 

[boo600]

Clark not covering his kryptonite weakness does occasionally get an explanation; he intentionally leaves the weakness open because it gives his enemies an easy and known exploit to use, and he knows that if he covered the weakness then they'd just come up with some new way to get at him that he wouldn't know how to deal with.

It's not a great explanation, but it is at least something.

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Another explanation I've seen, albeit in a fanfic, is that until a perfect counter and defense against mind control is created, or that Clark is a 100% sure he won't turn evil, he wants to have a weakness so that he can be stopped.

This actually fits with his character.

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Right. Both of those are frustrating, but canon answers...

But that's not how the Paragon Timeline Clark sees things? He immediately accepted the anti-kryptonite shield Paul offered him, because... well, kryptonite lasers exist, so why would Batman need to rely on waving around a rock like a punk?

Having it not be lantern tech (that couldn't be lent because of Rules) but explicitly from his Fortress, though... well, if he's not avoiding it on purpose, and it was in easy access with the most basic query the entire time, then that just makes him stupid, doesn't it?


Because here, they have time off. The world isn't on fire constantly, at least as much as in the comics (until the Anti-Life hit), and they aren't new - they had a decade.

And those excuses suck even in canon. Literally, just have Batman install a remote shutdown in the shield if you desperately need to, and pretend to be affected by Kryptonite while basically doing what he does when people are in danger while he's Clark Kent-ing next to them. Being able to not be crippled when Lex or his contemporaries do something like this in the field is supposedly worth everything to him, much less when he ends up fighting an apokalyptian war machine with a hunk of kryptonite. Heck, turn off the shield if Superman/Clark Kent is a bad actor, at least when dealing with minor threats who lack a gun! Purse snatchers with a rock!

Instead, we got criminals fleeing Metropolis, to Lois' delight, because Superman became Immune to Kryptonite. Because... well, those other techniques suck by comparison. When fighting the fake-doomsday (one horn) attacking the Team on Luthor's territory (shortly after returning from his initial foray into space to make the OLC), Paul talked about how no version of Luthor has ever tried just blocking out the Sun with a forcefield to weaken Kal-El's recharging... because that sucks by comparison. Kryptonite is vastly more effective, to the point that it isn't a contest. "They need to pull off new bullshit to hurt/fight me" is a completely different scenario from "anyone with this rock can and will shut me down at will, unless I coat myself in lead (which is obvious)."

Canon is dumb, basically, and those excuses don't apply here, even though I was expecting Clark to cite both of those reasons and tell Paul to pound sand. And I was pleased when he didn't! I was pleased when Batman wore armor in a war zone, instead of acting like not being in his trademark spandex was A Crime Against Copyright And Morality!

But god damn, does it mean Superman is fucking dumb. And his noted ability to improve, which had no arbitrary downside enforced to make him drop the shields... makes every other JL member who doesn't shape up look much worse (including himself, later). Diana does better, because her Full Armor from Paul is heavier, and not diplomatic accoutrements - she justified not wearing it at first during the training exercise beautifully. And she does wear it when she can and the situation calls for it! They can improve!

But getting them there is like pulling teeth, each and every step of the way. And then Ollie opens his fucking mouth-

 

[Signaller]

What happened to Alan's original ring after he swapped over to Kalmin's blue ring and lantern? Can someone check to see if it has the yellow weakness, and if so, is it somehow infested with some of this yellow fear crystal material?

 

[Darko]

What happened to Alan's original ring after he swapped over to Kalmin's blue ring and lantern? Can someone check to see if it has the yellow weakness, and if so, is it somehow infested with some of this yellow fear crystal material?

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He only got a Blue Lantern, not a ring.

His green ring was converted into a blue one.

 

[Lord Ernest]

What happened to Alan's original ring after he swapped over to Kalmin's blue ring and lantern? Can someone check to see if it has the yellow weakness, and if so, is it somehow infested with some of this yellow fear crystal material?

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Alan's original ring was turned to Blue, if memory serves. Kalmin made a Lantern, not a ring. The Lantern then connected to Alan's ring, converted it to blue and repaired it, including adding an AI.

 

[Silveraith]

"You believe that you could have… Kept her safe… From Arcane?"

Commissioner Gordon shakes his head. "Of course not, but he wouldn't have had to find out that we had her."

Diana nods to herself. "How did he find out that she was here?"

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Would. He would have had to find out they had her.

"I didn't… Think she was going to proposition me… Now."

"You actually didn't, did you." Eris looks away for a moment. "Wrll. I'll let you off. But I expect you to make an actual decision." She comes a little closer, looking me directly in the eyes. "Take a hold of your destiny."

"Eris, that's my crotch."

"I've already got my destiny." She nods. "Now, come on. I think I've found a way to get that chaos focus you wanted."

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The first sentence is weird even with the pauses but I love Eris' decisiveness.

 

[Mr Zoat]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/WithThisRingEpisode159

Ripples. It was actually fairly recent; Siivaa and the Deep 6? I even had a scathing, lengthy retort against OIlie later, because... well, he basically told Paul (upon finding out THE ENTIRE FUCKING UNIVERSE WAS ALMOST DESTROYED) that he shouldn't be pawning off magic armor on Roy, and that mistakes happen, but he should date/fuck his girlfriend more.

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Ah! Sorry, I was thinking about a different episode.

Who just told him that he sees her at least 3 times a week, during the anti-life crisis where she mostly lives away from Earth. Paul, who has innate knowledge of his own desired and of ALL of Jade's spectrum-emotions whenever he so much as glances at her.

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Though I should point out that he doesn't know things that she might come to desire in the future.

So well, he hasn't even asked for basic prepatory advice from the allied superintelligence he actually likes, who knows him well enough to make him a special ring that's better for him in subtle ways... that can only be made by a Maltusian who knows their ring-slinger very well, apparently.

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It's more 'tuned for him specifically' than 'special'. And technically, the First Ring is still better for some tasks.

Would. He would have had to find out they had her.

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No, as in 'there was nothing happening which would have automatically caused him to find out she was with us'.

 

[The Chosen One]

I... Think it's come up at some point. Something about there being a reason why Jordan uses boxing gloves?

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I mean, I was able to infer as much as I did over the course of the story, but I think you make fun of the boxing gloves, etc, almost every time they appear, enough for it to be unclear to some readers whether Green Lanterns are limited by something they can't do, or just don't tend to, because they're all jocks. Especially given that they do pick up some of OL's techniques just from hearing about them.

 

[boo600]

It's more 'tuned for him specifically' than 'special'. And technically, the First Ring is still better for some tasks.

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Bad wording on my part, but basically my grasp of it, yes.

But my point is this: Paul has an allied superintelligence who he trusts. He's told her about a lot, including the Comic Book Knowledge. She has access to his mission reports, if not his memories outright. She's also not one of these newfangled Easy Superintelligence - Just Add Water! AI flash-in-the-pans; she's legitimately a billion years old. She knows him well enough to tune a ring for him, which is apparently not something any maltusian can do - it's a sign she knows him well.

And he hasn't even asked her to go over his kit.

Which, ok, it would be hard to write someone that intelligent, Doylistically. Keeping her mostly off-screen lets her be portrayed better and more accurately to her mental state/stats. And it makes it harder to write when Paul is even tougher, or can solve more problems with greater ease if she helps him with modularity instead of defense/power/breadth of options.

But… this is the guy Ollie wants to accuse of constantly grasping for power? Seriously? When raising his power level/getting new tools, improving where someone that smart thinks he could use growthC is free? The guy turning down the ultimate personal trainer, no quests or payments needed?

It's insane. I literally can't picture anyone who spends more time and effort avoiding getting stronger, and I'm including Superman in that list. (I'm being slightly facetious here, but.)

Which is not to say that Paul is poorly written, or that he should be slavishly focused on raising his CR; you were perfectly right when you posted that M:tG ogre who only ate cannibals in that there's a difference between being 'on top' and being happy.

But it does make Ollie (and everyone else who accuses him of grasping for power, instead of trying to get people basic equipment as a standard thing) look really, really, really stupid. Or malicious.

 

[Vaermina]

Yes. They can.

Yes, they need to put in a lot of work to properly understand the mechanisms they're reproducing, but as we saw in the previous chapter, Hal is entirely capable of creating a MIM-104 Patriot.

Will it take months or even years of study to create more exotic systems? Absolutely it will. Most of the Justice League have been doing this for decades.


I'm not saying they can just pull out whatever they want from their ass with no preparation, I'm saying they don't do the preparation. The heroes in superhero comics tend to remain static until an external pressure forces them to adapt, and then you've got at best 50/50 odds of them actually retaining the adaptation or it just vanishing into the aether by the time the next story comes around.

This makes sense from an external narrative perspective as it makes stories standalone and thus allows new people to get into things at any point without needing to work their way through a vast amount of prior stuff in order to understand what is going on. But from an in-universe perspective it is an inexplicable blind spot that unnecessarily hampers the heroes, and from an in-universe perspective Paul is not wrong to lambast them for it.

e:

Hal literally just made a Patriot missile system, they're entirely capable of making complex machinery, they just need to understand the machinery well enough to reproduce it. This isn't easy, but it's something that could absolutely be done if they invest the time into studying said machinery.

The problem Paul has is that they don't invest the time, despite the fact that it's not really that major of an investment in the grand scheme of things and would exponentially increase their effectiveness. Even just six hours a week spent studying the relevant technologies would go a long way towards expanding their capabilities..


Like, as another simple example; Superman almost never bothers to learn how to fight. He never studies martial arts or anything like that, which leaves him open in the rare but inevitable circumstances where he runs up against someone that he can't just brute force his way through.

It would take very little actual investment of time for Superman to learn even the basics of hand-to-hand fighting, but he never does, even after that lack bites him in the ass.

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Eh... He can create a construct that looks like an MIM-104 Patriot. There's no actual fuel or explosive in there, it's just a construct.

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^^Points up.

Most of the time constructs are just generalized "look like a thing".

One of the things that makes John Stewart so good as a green lantern is that he's actually a trained architect so he can envision things better then most.

 

[Neruz]

^^Points up.

Most of the time constructs are just generalized "look like a thing".

One of the things that makes John Stewart so good as a green lantern is that he's actually a trained architect so he can envision things better then most.

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Which exactly supports my point about them not even putting in a minimal amount of effort to expand their capabilities; John Stewart is above average as a Green Lantern because of skills he already had when he became a Green Lantern.

 

[BR549]

What happened to Alan's original ring after he swapped over to Kalmin's blue ring and lantern? Can someone check to see if it has the yellow weakness, and if so, is it somehow infested with some of this yellow fear crystal material?

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IIRC, there is no "yellow weakness" in Earth-16 GL rings. Will is generally weak to fear, and fear's color on the Emotional Energy Spectrum is yellow, but it's not "I'm holding a sword I spray-painted yellow to Green Lantern's throat and he's helpless against it".

I suspect that Hal has actually already answered why

Fear projection wouldn't work on Lantern Jordan either.

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and it's because, being Hal Jordan, his defining character trait is he has no fear.

 

[Lord Ernest]

and it's because, being Hal Jordan, his defining character trait is he has no fear.

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Wasn't there something during the whole possessed by the Ophidian episode (A long time ago, I know) where Paulphidian mentions that Hal still has hang ups that hamper his Willpower? Especifically, how he saw his father crash and die, undermining the values that were imparted to him by said father and upon which his character is build? I'm paraphrasing here, because I can't be bothered to go check the episode.

Paulphidian offered to put him in a nightmare loop until he was able to overcome said hang up but obviously Hal wasn't up for it. However, in general yes, I agree that Hal is one of the most fearless Green Lanterns. Not in this story, I think, since Guy is Enlightened, for example.

 

[Silveraith]

Oh wonderful.

"Oceanus used a storm cloud as an electrostatic generator and then shot you with a lightning bolt. Are you injured?"

Ring, what's Oceanus doing?

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**Kal-El shot out Oceanus' eyes and it didn't lose track of what was going on. It's more likely that it tracks with magic, ifff… If it isn't being directed remotely.** I frown. **No, sorry, it can't be doing that. I'm unscryable and it's been tracking me fine.**

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I'm still not sure how Oceanus did this; at first I thought he had just eyeballed the MC from a thousand kilometers away I don't think that's what happened.

"A nuclear explosive wouldn't hit phased targets. We'd need to use some sort of phase disruptor first, and we don't have any of those attached to nuclear warheads."

"Ah." He bows his head slightly. "A shame. There is a beautiful finality to a mushroom cloud on the horizon."

Richard leans away slightly, looking at him askance.

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Canis once again proving himself to have the best perspective on things.

Artemis shrugs and Roy winces slightly.

**What, neither of you?** He shakes his head as he notches again. **You can't just throw away the classics like that. One day, you'll need them.-**

Roy rolls his eyes. **Ollie, I remember the fake cat arrow.**

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I don't think the hyphen at the end of Green Arrow's comment is supposed to be there.

"For Heliooooooooos!"

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Kon adapted so much more quickly to the worship aspect of Hellenism than the MC did; It's actually admirable to see how much he's grown vs how he behaved in the first few episodes.

I just… Killed my Cat. And not just in an are-Construct-Lanterns-still-people sort of way. She's… Gone. No, no. I can't worry about that now. "Let's go."

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A decade later this still makes me sad; I didn't even notice in the chapter exactly when she disappeared.

 

[Mr Zoat]

16th October 2013
19:08 G.M.T.

Uh-. Gravity..?

Message to Vril Dox. Do you have a gravity attractor construct design?

Message sent.

Great, hopefully he's got something, because I'm really not sure how to do that. The other alternative-.

"Illustres to all local Lanterns. Anyone got any idea how that crystal stuff actually works?"

Jordan's face appears first, and he's shaking his head. "No idea. Are you trying to save the slaves, or the Apokoliptian tech?"

"Second would be nice to have-."

"Then just grab the slaves and get them out of there. Way I see it, Apokolips having its toys wrecked is the least they deserve."

He's-. Yeah. He's right. I transition down, into the middle of the excavation site, and generate a loud hailer construct. "Excuse me!"

The guards and some of the slaves tear their eyes away from their oncoming doom and look at me. One of the guards raises his gun, and the one standing next to him pushes it down while looking at him like he's a complete idiot. Fortunately, he gets a clue.

"The Dread Horde fleet has pulled out, and you have been left here to die. I would like to evacuate you to a safe location. We will sort out the rest later. Does anyone wish to do anything stupid?"

A few heads glance around, but no one says anything.

"Good. Please get everyone out of the tunnels and get as much crystal dust off yourselves as possible."

Because while I can probably tether some of them, the whole point of their work here was to gather anti-construct crystal.

Actually…

I project a weak construct across the whole site, watching carefully where it fails first. Then I attempt to tether the people it didn't fail around-. Okay, exclude those ones and try again-. Good.

"Stand by for movement."

And transition, coming out… Next to the bunker I built for Grum, which should be out of the immediate impact zone. And out of the immediate murderous Apokoliptian insects, plants and autonomous weapons zone.

"Wait here, don't do anything stupid."

And transition back… And you never quite get used to seeing giant spaceships fall from orbit aimed at your head. Shuttles… Gone, but I can cannibalise the structures here to create a platform they can stand on…

"Alright, everyone on-" My ring shimmers. "board. Go ahead?"

"Why do you want a gravitational attractor?"

I wrap a piece of railing around the ersatz platform and lift… Yes, that works.

"Hey!"

"I'll be back! Just get everyone out of the tunnels." And we're moving, because I can use my construct as a windbreak. "Sir, I need to stop a construct-proof ship falling on a planet. Full briefing to follow."

"Just use a non-construct cover-."

"The stuff that disrupts constructs has spread over the area."

"Missiles?"

"Too late to spread the debris out far enough. Without shockwaves-."

"I'm sending the design now. It's untested, and you will most likely have to use several." He looks past me. "You're carrying out an evacuation?"

"Yes, but I'd like to preserve the Apokoliptian-."

"Evacuate first."

"Yes sir, thank you for your help."

His eyes dip below the image for a moment.

"You.. are.. welcome."

Okay, he's getting prompted, but he is trying. End communication and… Yes, this should be far enough. Put the platform, down.

"Everyone off, please. This region should be safe for a few minutes, but I'm appreciate it if you could avoid wandering off." A few hesitate-. "Faster, please, or I tip you off."

And there they go. Quick check of the ship… Still got time, but I can see the bubble of superheated air forming around it as it enters the atmosphere. That's… Disturbing. Most of my fights with Reach ships happen a good distance away from planets. The Reach don't want us bombing their planets, we don't want to bomb the planets they've stolen from people working with us, and there aren't many weapons you can stick at the bottom of a gravity well-

The unloading's finished, and I transition the platform back. People are streaming out of the tunnel, nervously checking the sky as they run towards me.

-that can actually help.

The stream of people leaving the tunnel trails off as the rest finish climbing on board.

"Is that everyone?"

A handful of affirmative gestures, while the rest are busy staring at the underside of the ship. It's not quite going to hit, but the resulting blast would destroy the site. I try checking their claim with empathic vision, but-. Urgh, I'm not seeing anything clearly from in there.

Time to go, then. Shield up, and full speed back to Grum's bunker.

"Illustres to all Lanterns in-system. Evacuation complete. Unless you want something from the Apokoliptian hologram system, I advise pulling back."

Gaart's face appears for a moment, and he makes an affirmative gesture.

"Not so much that I want to risk it. Pulling back."

I watch as the two very faint specs of green abandon their constructs-. Was that a giant magnet? And head back into space.

"What's..?" One of the slaves -a tamaranean male- looks up at me. "Going to happen to..? Us?"

"Slaves will be returned to their world of origin. Overseers will be handed over to the Green Lantern Corps for judgement."

A couple of oversees don't look too happy about that, but know better than to complain.

"I am not sure that I want to go back to Tamaran. The Citadel will probably just-."

"Oh, don't worry about them. I killed most of them. Tamaran is actually rebuilding now."

"Oh. Then I will be happy to return home."

"Glad to hear it. Anyone want to watch the impact?"

 

[Mr Zoat]

I don't think the hyphen at the end of Green Arrow's comment is supposed to be there.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

16th October 2013
19:08 G.M.T.

Uh-. Gravity..?

Message to Vril Dox. Do you have a gravity attractor construct design?

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Huh, hope Dox can answer quickly, because this is rather a rapidly-changing situation and time is of the essence. For now, OL might have to focus on other aspects of the impending disaster zone.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Message sent.

Great, hopefully he's got something, because I'm really not sure how to do that. The other alternative-.

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Call the Ophidian in and try to use it's power to overwhelm the Fear Crystals? That's basically the godzilla threshold here.

"Illustres to all local Lanterns. Anyone got any idea how that crystal stuff actually works?"

Jordan's face appears first, and he's shaking his head. "No idea. Are you trying to save the slaves, or the Apokoliptian tech?"

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Really, Hal? He's a trained superhero, of course he's going to try to save people.

"Second would be nice to have-."

"Then just grab the slaves and get them out of there. Way I see it, Apokolips having its toys wrecked is the least they deserve."

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He's not wrong, even if getting Fear crystals to study would be a help.

He's-. Yeah. He's right. I transition down, into the middle of the excavation site, and generate a loud hailer construct. "Excuse me!"

The guards and some of the slaves tear their eyes away from their oncoming doom and look at me. One of the guards raises his gun, and the one standing next to him pushes it down while looking at him like he's a complete idiot. Fortunately, he gets a clue.

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Because something that big does not move that quickly, even if it's falling out of control. You'll get plenty of time to see your death coming.

"The Dread Horde fleet has pulled out, and you have been left here to die. I would like to evacuate you to a safe location. We will sort out the rest later. Does anyone wish to do anything stupid?"

A few heads glance around, but no one says anything.

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Since being stupid means getting left here to die. And that's not a pleasant way to go, I would imagine, even with a slightly distant impact.

"Good. Please get everyone out of the tunnels and get as much crystal dust off yourselves as possible."

Because while I can probably tether some of them, the whole point of their work here was to gather anti-construct crystal.

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So most of them are going to have to be hauled like cargo, rather than the easy option.

Actually…

I project a weak construct across the whole site, watching carefully where it fails first. Then I attempt to tether the people it didn't fail around-. Okay, exclude those ones and try again-. Good.

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Smart. And he can probably remove any weapons at the same time, since most of the guards would be mostly free of residue.

"Stand by for movement."

And transition, coming out… Next to the bunker I built for Grum, which should be out of the immediate impact zone. And out of the immediate murderous Apokoliptian insects, plants and autonomous weapons zone.

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...At least until dark, but they should be safely extracted by then.

"Wait here, don't do anything stupid."

And transition back… And you never quite get used to seeing giant spaceships fall from orbit aimed at your head. Shuttles… Gone, but I can cannibalise the structures here to create a platform they can stand on…

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I can't imagine seeing the sky on fire is much good for a sense of mortality.

"Alright, everyone on-" My ring shimmers. "board. Go ahead?"

"Why do you want a gravitational attractor?"

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Oh, gee, Dox. Did it not occur to you that he might need it quickly, and here you are wasting time talking.

I wrap a piece of railing around the ersatz platform and lift… Yes, that works.

"Hey!"

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Because there's only so much space, and someone's gonna have to sit this trip out...

"I'll be back! Just get everyone out of the tunnels." And we're moving, because I can use my construct as a windbreak. "Sir, I need to stop a construct-proof ship falling on a planet. Full briefing to follow."

"Just use a non-construct cover-."

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Impressed he didn't question the 'Construct-Proof' part, but he's a smart guy, he can worry about that later.

"The stuff that disrupts construct has spread over the area."

"Missiles?"

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Got anything big enough to beat a dreadnaught's armour and render it into smaller pieces without doing as much damage as the fallign wrecks from the blast? No? Not optimal.

"Too late to spread the debris out far enough. Without shockwaves-."

"I'm sending the design now. It's untested, and you will most likely have to use several." He looks past me. "You're carrying out an evacuation?"

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At least they'll get some useful testing data from this.

"Yes, but I'd like to preserve the Apokoliptian-."

"Evacuate first."

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Good to see he's looking to the compassionate priority. Knowing OL as he does, he knows that's more important to him.

"Yes sir, thank you for your help."

His eyes dip below the image for a moment.

"You.. are.. welcome."

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Aw, all embarrassed about the thanks? ...Nah, Dox isn't that emotionally demonstrative.

Okay, he's getting prompted, but he is trying. End communication and… Yes, this should be far enough. Put the platform, down.

"Everyone off, please. This region should be safe for a few minutes, but I'm appreciate it if you could avoid wandering off." A few hesitate-. "Faster, please, or I tip you off."

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Since he still needs another trip or two for the remaining personnel at the mines and all.

And there they go. Quick check of the ship… Still got time, but I can see the bubble of superheated air forming around it as it enters the atmosphere. That's… Disturbing. Most of my fights with Reach ships happen a good distance away from planets. The Reach don't want us bombing their planets, we don't want to bomb the planets they've stolen from people working with us, and there aren't many weapons you can stick at the bottom of a gravity well-

Click to shrink...

And most of the ships he takes down are recoverable before they reach a decaying orbit, or simply detonate in place...

The unloading's finished, and I transition the platform back. People are streaming out of the tunnel, nervously checking the sky as they run towards me.

-that can actually help.

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Less gawking, folks, more running.

The stream of people leaving the tunnel trails off as the rest finish climbing on board.

"Is that everyone?"

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If it's not, they're in for a rough time soon.

A handful of affirmative gestures, while the rest are busy staring at the underside of the ship. It's not quite going to hit, but the resulting blast would destroy the site. I try checking their claim with empathic vision, but-. Urgh, I'm not seeing anything clearly from in there.

Click to shrink...

Because that much mass, moving at anywhere close to terminal velocity, is going to be like a monster nuke going off.

Time to go, then. Shield up, and full speed back to Grum's bunker.

"Illustres to all Lanterns in-system. Evacuation complete. Unless you want something from the Apokoliptian hologram system, I advise pulling back."

Click to shrink...

I assume they're at least trying to slow it down as best they can. But the physics involved here are too big even for Power Rings to affect much.

Gaart's face appears for a moment, and he makes an affirmative gesture.

"Not so much that I want to risk it. Pulling back."

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Still hoping that was the real Raker in there, eh? Foolish, but he is young.

I watch as the two very faint specs of green abandon their constructs-. Was that a giant magnet? And head back into space.

"What's..?" One of the slaves -a tamaranean male- looks up at me. "Going to happen to..? Us?"

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Hey, if the visualisation had some effect, don't knock it.

"Slaves will be returned to their world of origin. Overseers will be handed over to the Green Lantern Corps for judgement."

A couple of oversees don't look too happy about that, but know better than to complain.

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It's a fair cop, lads. You know you were doing wrong, so own up to it and you might get a lighter sentence.

"I am not sure that I want to go back to Tamaran. The Citadel will probably just-."

"Oh, don't worry about them. I killed most of them. Tamaran is actually rebuilding now."

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Gent's been out of the loop for a while, by the looks of it.

"Oh. Then I will be happy to return home."

"Glad to hear it. Anyone want to watch the impact?"

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Hopefully the initial flash of impact won't be too bad. Because that much force will trigger nuclear-equivalent detonations.

Well, the number one priority - Saving Lives - is accomplished. I hope OL does give it a shot at lessening the earth-shattering kaboom with the gadgets Dox sent him the specs for. It'll be one hell of a show, for one thing, and give Dox plenty of testing data. Probably better the Fear Crystal arsenal goes up, though, to avoid the temptation to use it.