Confrontation (Worm fanfic)

Unfortunately, the interlude has people over in SB frothing about 'plagiarism', despite me giving full credit to the author, because I neglected (my own fault) to ask permission first. So I'll be taking it down until further notice. Sorry.

 

*Sighs* Stupid "Intellectual Property" insanity getting in the way of good things for absolutely no reasonable benefit. Hopefully the permission is supplied, but I think it REALLY shouldn't have been necessary, especially since there was no conceivable way that the original snippet writer was losing out on anything. Said writer was GAINING credit, for one thing.

It's very unfortunate you had to deal with that behaviour on SB, Ack, and I hope it hasn't hurt your mood too much.

 

Ouch, yes, it is always a good practice to ask permission first from your fellow fic writers before copying their work -- giving credit is usually not considered sufficient.

In these case the sentiment about whether someone was 'losing' or 'gaining', it's about the unwritten rules about how fic writers are meant to behave towards one another. Whether said rules are reasonable or not, they are what they are, and they're meant more to protect the sense of "this thing I wrote, it's MINE for me to give you or deny you permission to use, not yours to take and merely give credit". As the 'violation' is purely a matter of subjective emotions, not some physical gain or loss, different authors may react differently towards the issue, and that's why one ought ask first, to make certain they don't have a problem.

 

Further developments as they arise.

 

Yeah, gotta be honest, if Ack didn't ask... that's like breaking the fanfiction bro-code. Really, it's only polite and otherwise comes off as a huge dick move.

L6 probably won't mind, but still. Seeing as he's regularly SB, it didn't cost much to just ask first.

 

*Sighs* Culture clash can get very annoying. What benefit, emotional or otherwise, do you think writers gain by from having a right-of-refusal for others to build upon their works, and why is it worth the cost of increased time, decreased chances of being willing to try and incorporate what other people have made, and otherwise holding back the advancement of literature and good storytelling?

In my view, any such benefit is so minor that it's utterly negligible, especially in comparison to the costs of maintaining such a "right".


Now, if it were an issue of attribution that would be a lot more reasonable. Claiming that you wrote something that you didn't, or that somebody wrote something that THEY didn't, would be something I would agree was an extremely poor move.

Still, different cultures are, even if I have yet to see an explanation for this one that's worth much.

 

Okay; I've spoken with Lavanya Six, and with a mod. He was pretty cool about it, but as he's intending to expand on the snip, he's declined permission to allow me to quote his material in my fic, even with attribution. Which is his right.

However, I have plans for something else; we shall see.

 

Hey Ack, sorry this is later than I thought it would be. I made the ill considered decision to try and find an answer to that question of a lesbian reference in TV or film to An Officer and a Gentleman by going to TV Tropes. I'm sure that you know how that goes.

Personal preference: Shadow Stalker is elsewhere (perhaps one of those unauthorized solo patrols) for long enough for Taylor to make a positive first impression with the Wards with her earnest desire to be someone worth something.

Re: Choice of portrayal of Taylor's reactions

As I see it, there are two main questions here.

One is 'what portrayal(s) of Taylor are canon compliant, character-wise?'

The other is, of those portrayals, what best fits the story you're telling? Because given that this is in the setting the stage phase of the story, for a lot of readers, this is where they're trying to get an idea of what kind of story this is, so foreshadowing and establishing the tone and rules has more weight here. True, this can also be where one plays with expectations and fake-outs, but I'm going to set that aside for the moment because that's generally not how you've written in the past.

So, that in mind, here are my general comments:

I get that shard effects are significant. You do too, evidently, given how Sophia changed after Taylor shut up her shard in Trump Card. That said, I'm inclined to agree more with your and volantredx's interpretations of Taylor's character over DeAnno's. Yes, Taylor changes a lot after triggering in canon, but enough happens to her in the course of those changes (most of which haven't in Confrontation) that it doesn't have to be purely down to shard effects. I'd also say that a "meek girl who was bullied for a year and a half" doesn't have to be unfocused or without a fundamental urge for control if the goals and control are focused more internally on her responses and adaptations. Self control rather than external, about what you let other people change about you, more than what you do. I would also say that this setting isn't a dualistic one. Mental and physical aren't separate, so it's entirely appropriate for her to have a physical component to her mental trauma. So you've got wiggle room as far as how much or how little Taylor reacts physically while staying within character.

So then, what do you want to say with this hospital scene? You've mentioned the Panacea angle, and Armsmaster. Something you haven't referenced yet is the difference in direction. The original is very much a human focused story, notwithstanding the superpowers. Our focus is on Taylor's interactions with people. The revised one, particularly with "The disquiet went through me, then went ... somewhere else." starts to edge into New Weird, where we're less travelling with a person and being invested in their decisions and actions, and more watching something happen to someone as they are warped by the mysterious alien influence. And the Amy interaction is more abstract, adding to the detachment. One's more adventure/drama, the other's more mystery/horror. Both are valid choices, and they have some overlap, but you're the one who gets to decide which one to write.

On the changes themselves: These are the ones I found, so these are the ones I can comment on. Sorry if I missed any.

"I shivered, momentarily. Despite all my preparation…" replacing "I shivered, and all of a sudden, I could not stop shaking. Despite all my preparation"
It fits both the aim of decreasing her physical reactions, as well as reading as a reasonably normal reaction. And you pretty much had to do this in order to do the subsequent scene with Amy and Armsmaster.

"The disquiet went through me, then went ... somewhere else. Somewhere that I could handle it a lot easier.
Giving me time to think about how thoroughly I had screwed it up."
This set, I like. It brings the weird alien disquieting tone into it a bit while preserving Taylor's self-criticism.

"I was still lying in bed … I deliberately took a breath"
This one, not as much. I think I found Taylor's vulnerability and Panacea's competence both drew me in more. Amy still has displayed her expertise, she healed her, but it doesn't have the same immediacy and impact of feeling soothed right at that moment, while conscious, when Amy didn't have to do it. I mean, she still is soothed, but there's less impact because she didn't need it as much. It's a tough balance. It does fit with the aim of a more physically detached Taylor, but it has the side effect of having a more detached audience (or subset thereof).

You also lost the "Plus, her parents must be worried sick about her.” I caught something in her tone, but didn't know what it meant." reference to Amy's family, which, again, moves the focus away from the personal, both for Taylor, and for us.

Those are all the ones I found. Other things I wanted to mention:
"I shook my head. “No. I'll probably be giving up superheroing altogether. Because I obviously suck at it.”
<><>
Even as I spoke the words, I knew that they were true. I had gone out, I had picked a fight with the biggest, baddest cape in Brockton Bay, and I had been horribly injured."

“There's another option,” he suggested. “We do have the Wards program.” There was no judgement in his tone, no pressure. Just a statement.

Good. I like this portrayal of Armsmaster for the moment. Reasonable professionalism. And actually, a decent approach to Taylor in her current state. It gets Taylor to where she needs to be, and leaves avenues open for you to do useful
contrasts character-wise when you move forward.

Likewise, I think that the connection with Amy is a good move. You need to have someone for Taylor to work off of early on who aren't in the Wards, and the Undersiders aren't an immediate option. By which I mean from the perspective of being able to show a human connection and personality so that you aren't exclusively in Taylor's head (I want Taylor's headspace in the story too, but there are a lot of readers who get more from interpreting interaction than reading people's thoughts). I'm certainly not talking about it from a tactical perspective - that's far off at this point, I think.

"by sheer accident"
THANK YOU! Sorry. It's just that it's reassuring to see "by accident" instead of "on accident", which always reads wrong to me, and yet I encounter with increasing frequency online. It's possible it's a region specific form, but it's not one that I see in professional publications, so it's at least not a standard one.

On Confrontation 3. Personally, I feel it's odd for fanfiction authors to say that other people should require permission to adapt, be inspired by, remix, or transform their works when that's what fanfiction does with canon. I empathise with the sense of ownership of one's own work, but once you let people read it, it's in their heads, and, story generating organisms that people are, their minds are going to do things with it. Saying they can't share that seems counter to the spirit of the impulses that drive much of fanfiction. Obviously one needs to give credit and attribution, and not claim to have done the work someone else did. But the nature of semi-shared settings is that people are going to write things that speak to each other and overlap, so it seems unrealistic and disingenuous to try to build tall fences around what is one person's idea or concept to work with exclusively.

That said, it is also true that when works are too close and boundaries are fuzzy, even with the most dutiful attribution, some readers are going to be confused, or mix things up, or just miss that part of it came from somewhere else. I mean, it happened in this thread even. And when another author does something with your work it can colour readers' responses to yours, past or future. There can also be an implication of support or benefit, depending on the context, which means an author may feel that they need to take the time to evaluate the work in which theirs appears, if it's a quote. Perhaps more disturbing to an author, it can also change one's own relation to the idea/character/universe. No guarantee what way, but I can understand an author wanting to avoid making writing more difficult than it already is. So, generally, I think that the more one is using from someone else's work, and the more direct it is, particularly if it's whole paragraphs, or original characters, the more one should consider seeing what the author thinks of the idea.

In a case like Chapter 3, where you want to practically drop in something someone already wrote with some tweaks, in future you could probably just put in a link and say "this is headcanon for this story with the following differences" (original character who might appear in subsequent chapters instead of Glenn directly, for example), and go from there without strongly negatively affecting the reading experience.

I'm not going to speculate further than Navrin about where the Shadow Stalker thread will go because there isn't enough data for me to go on and this is long enough already.

Any rate, hopefully there's something useful in there for you.

Edited to strikeout a brain malfunction where I mixed up two fics.

 

Into some very strange places, I will imagine.

The confrontation will not be immediate. But everyone will see it coming. Mwahaha.

Shut up her shard?

Looking over Taylor in general, even after the Lung fight, she's collected enough to turn down AM's offer (which was canon). And then she comes home and makes herself jam on toast after changing out of her costume. That's pretty damn collected for someone who's just escaped severe injury or death.

Yeah, I had to do a balancing act there. Maybe I should have had Panacea put her hand on Taylor's forehead? (The shoulder was because in the altered scene, Taylor was curled up in a ball, and the shoulder was easier to reach). Hand on forehead is more personal, more immediate, more soothing.

I can always bring that in a bit later.

Those are basically the exact words he uses in canon. It makes sense that he would use them here.

Amy and Taylor are going to become friends.

I think it's one of those verbal mistakes (based off 'on purpose') which people keep perpetuating, like "he would of done that" and "this is you're fault" and "irregardless". Things that make me shudder when I read them.

While 'accident' and 'purpose' are both nouns, they have different applications. 'Accident' is an immediate thing. You have an accident, it happens, it's done. 'Purpose' is an ongoing thing. If you have a purpose, you intend to do something, to get it done, but it's not the thing that gets done. It's more abstract. You don't use the word the same way. Except by accident. Never on purpose.

I was lazy and I really should have asked for permission (before I used it). Had I done so, none of this would have happened. So. Lesson learned.

Exactly and precisely.

More or less my intention.

Definitely something to think about, thanks.

 

I have decided to do that little change. It now reads:

 

Her solution to the scary bug problem is gonna boil down to the fact that since its a PR problem, it doesn't matter if she actually IS using them, only if she's perceived as using them, isn't it. So hiding them behind a wall of butterflies and moths works just fine.

 

Bugs in power armor.

 

She might also take "iridescent like a beetle would work better for your costume because it's friendlier" and run with it to the conclusion of "people like beetles."

She'd be "that beetle master."

 

You know what Ack? I like this ch. 3 better then the previous one, it feels much more personable and engaging......also she can go with either Damselfly or Shimmershell as names that sound not villainous.

 

As long as Taylor's working as a team and she has a large enough supply of "suitable" insects, it isn't that much of a handicap. Can still be C&C of Doom, can still harass everybody they're fighting, can still break line-of-sight basically at-will, can still be one of the most dangerous scouts around... in short, she's still ludicrously powerful. And she has several extra layers of escalation and surprise that others won't see coming.

Thanks for the chapter, Ack, it was a very nice replacement.

 

well, i liked what you did with lavanya's work but i must say i enjoyed this version more, simply because of the dialogs and taylor's reactions.

the "dead people don't need hero names" was very nicely set up. Her costume would then have been both her shroud and a way to put off the final step
for a time?

taylor's problem(s) would need malevolent action to be ignored by the PRT/protectorate at this point.


thanks for sharing,once more, Ack.

 

"Damselfly? What, like I'm some useless damsel in distress and need to be rescued all the time? Ugh, no thank you."

 

Madame Butterfly. Possibly uses the 'bug voice' effect to play music when she arrives.

 

In something of a homage to Harper Lee, how about Scout?

 

Actually, not that strange. Still time consuming. And I didn't actually find what I was looking for.

*small smile* Looking forward to it.

*facepalm* Oops. Sorry, that was a brain malfunction. I'd read Schwep's Subduction recently, and mixed up the two Trump!Taylor powersets. Which makes no sense since I remembered other plot points that relate to this story just fine that don't work with that Subduction!Taylor's power. *sigh* It's not like you don't have other examples in your writing. Recoil just had one. I'm just going to strikeout that bit.

Oh lovely. That brings it back nicely.

Oh there are so many of those. "A person that" instead of "a person who" - She's not an 'it'! "Too many clothes" instead of "too much clothing" (though this may be both region and generation specific). Incorrect use, or failure to use when appropriate, of "-ful" and "-ly". …and I'm going off topic. Thanks for empathising.

And you're explaining it in Aftermath too.

You're welcome.

 

You know, Skitter isn't that villainous of a name if you don't associate it with the warlord who cut out people's eyes and stuff.

 

See A Tale of Transmigration, where she's Skitter the unbelievably fucking scary independent hero who works closely with the Protectorate.

 

The problem with Skitter as a name is that she didn't choose it herself.

 

The 4th wall is no match for Taylor Hebert.

 

Also... while seriously creepy it probably won't hurt the Wards much and might prevent less PR friendly capes to become villains by default.

It's certainly better than a don't ask don't tell policy for creepy superpowers.

 

For a name... Monarch?

Yeah, I know, she doesn't like the butterflies. Or she won't, rather, once she's asked to use them.

 

Interesting fact: the character of Hank Pym (Ant-Man) predates Worm's point of divergence. (1962 vs 1980-ish)

 

HARVESTMAN or HARVESTwoMAN for a name.

 

INSECTMAN!girl.