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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Queshire

    Queshire Not too sore, are you?

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    Would she say that though? If the ecological consequences are from men firebombing them or whatever then she's not likely to consider that.
     
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  2. ForeverShogo

    ForeverShogo Not too sore, are you?

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    Oh, I hope nothing like the Great Ghost Dance is on the horizon. That's one of the stupidest goddamn things about the Shadowrun setting.

    And the idea that the League might not get involved is ridiculous. This isn't some quaint civil war anymore. This is a bunch of crazy people with superpowers making demands that would result in the destruction of multiple countries.

    This is multinational supervillainy.

    This is the exact kind of bullshit the League is supposed to slap down. Doing anything other than stopping them if it comes to violence would severely damage their UN Mandate.
     
  3. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    This entire thing, even if it goes smoothly, can definetly get governments interested in making superhuman armies.
    Even if the negotiations work leaders around the world will want to have their own armies of superhumans in case something like this happens again and doesn't resolve itself peacefully, so yeah Lex may have just gotten himself several profitable future contracts if he figured out that OMAC thing and how it works.
     
  4. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    Ah, Zoat didn't use one of the fun little tidbits from that storyline.

    Hugo's greatest weapon was....reverse psychology!

    Knowing that telling his Sons of Dawn that he wanted them to conquer the world would get the response of "I don't wanna conquer the world! I hate you! I hate you! I hate you! You aren't my real dad!" Hugo instead told the kids "Oh no, you must stay in the plateau where you'll be safe with the dinosaurs, the modern world is way too scary for you to handle despite your godlike superpowers, because I said so!"

    Which eventually ended up with the Sons of Dawn burying Hugo alive under rocks and then going out to conquer the world.

    Unfortunately for the Sons, Professor Challenger's daughter Georgia accompanied Iron to the Lost World with a head cold, so it was already too late by that point.
     
  5. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    I would say that this particular situation fits many of the criteria that you are using as justifications for non-interference. To go by your list:

    A) This is a civil war involving the rebellion of a faction that has been subject to a long history of oppression and has no feasible means of achieving progress peacefully.

    B) The indigenous tribes are not recognized by the UN as a Nation, but they also don't operate within the existing structures of a recognized nation.

    C) The situation is intensely complicated. Both sides have valid points and choosing to use direct force to support either side would cause a lot of controversy.

    Supporting Brazil could easily be interpreted as declaring support for imperialism and the abuse of indigenous people. This seems like the type of thing that could greatly damage the reputation of the Justice League as it would greatly reinforce the idea that they are a Western organization that is more concerned with preserving the status quo than helping all humanity. It could also lead to defacto support Genocide as that seems like the only effective means to prevent the Danner tribes from being a recurring threat.

    Supporting the Danner Tribes would make most of the nations of South America into enemies but it would also cause problems with all the nations that possess ethnic groups that seek independence or restitution for their abuse by the government and must now fear Justice League involvement (I am not going to go further into this as it involves divisive modern politics).

    There is also no easy solution as the demands of the Danner Tribes will be unacceptable to the Brazil, while the Danner Tribe will refuse to accept a continuation of the status quo that keeps them oppressed and will eventually lead to the destruction of their people.

    -
    My perspective is that stepping back from the situation in order to take on the role of neutral negotiators and advisers is the only sensible course of action. This seems like the only way for the Justice League to respond to the situation without jeopardizing their moral principles or committing to a course of action that could only lead to disaster.
     
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  6. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    A) The second they involve other countries it isn't a civil war anymore

    B) All the countries they'd be attacking are UN members and the tribes would be at best seen as a terrorist organisation

    C) Yes morally there is no clear right side but the fallout of the tribes winning is infinitely worse than the alternative seeing as it would lead to millions of people forced from their homes and would cause multiple countries to cease to exist, causing the largest refugee and financial crisis in human history
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  7. DAT_NOOB

    DAT_NOOB Accused of writing in a far away land

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    Of course while selling chemical weapons to the other side
     
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  8. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    I think that you make a very good point regarding the consequences of the Tribes winning. My perspective is that the demands presented in the latest chapter were simply a starting point that would be easily negotiated down to something more reasonable. If the tribes are totally committed to their demands then the entire situation changes and this conflict becomes a more unequivocal conflict of good vs evil.
     
  9. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Oh I agree, I'm just saying that if It did come to a war the League would have to fight against them
     
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  10. david

    david Getting sticky.

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    If the team suddenly has a policy that you're not allowed to illegally sift through data, intrusively look into other peoples lives, keep major secrets from team leaders, or stay silent about massively important details...Well OL and Robin are definitely off the team.

    The problem there is that those politicians know that no matter what, there are going to be survivors. Doing this ensures that, at some point in the future, the top politicians and their families will be torn apart.
     
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  11. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    This would be considered a civil war. Also, no-one wants the Justice League to step in and tell countries they can't go to war anymore. That's something Zoat has already said, in this episode, in story.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
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  12. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Yes but like I said, the second they involve other countries, which their demands explicitly do, it isn't a civil war anymore

    It's multiple countries that are all member states of the UN fighting a superpowered terrorist group
     
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  13. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    Yeah, but again, no-one wants the Justice League to step in and tell countries they can't go to war anymore. That's something Zoat has already said, in this episode, in story.

    They'd likely go to war against Brazil first, win, and then go to war against the other countries.

    The tribespeople winning and replanting the jungles would go a long way to fixing the carbon emissions problem that Paul said he'd have to paint so many rooves white in order to counteract. Back in that interview that time.
     
  14. DAT_NOOB

    DAT_NOOB Accused of writing in a far away land

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    OK, I'm thinking the only way the league gets involved is if the south American governments declare them a supervillain group
     
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  15. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    The Brazilians may try to declare them a supervillain group, but the League wouldn't buy it for one second.
     
  16. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    The question of whether these tribes should be defined as supervillain or terrorist organization seems like it is directly connected to the question of what oppressed groups are morally allowed to do to resist their oppressor.

    At what point does the heroic resistance become simply a group of terrorists?

    I think that this is a really fascinating question that has no definitive answer. If anyone has a good take on this idea than I would love to read it.
     
  17. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

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    When they lose?
     
  18. TheEyes

    TheEyes Well worn.

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    None of that is why Squire will be in trouble; she'll be in trouble for blurting out those secrets during a critically volatile period and potentially making the situation worse.

    But they are; their stated goal is to displace tens of millions, an act which will result in destabilizing the entire Western hemisphere at the minimum and the deaths of tens to hundreds of thousands.

    Yeah, sure, their other goal of restoring the rainforest is laudable, but that goal didn't make Poison Ivy or Ra's al Ghul suddenly heroes. Just because these guys aren't White doesn't mean they can get away with using the exact same methods and get to call themselves heroes.
     
  19. Artificial_Icecube

    Artificial_Icecube Getting sticky.

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    I can't see them winning against even one country tbh, their super strength and durability would give them an edge against ground troops but they'd be fucked once the air force came into play. Their powers wouldn't protect them against large missile strikes or gas attacks and they don't have the numbers to hold the amount of territory they're asking for.
     
  20. Grimnar

    Grimnar Versed in the lewd.

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    Erm... who?
     
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  21. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    I think Fabiana was the reporter that interviewed Kon and OL during Black Reign just before Canis showed up.
     
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  22. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    You've forgotten how powerful Danner Enhanciles are, haven't you..
     
  23. david

    david Getting sticky.

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    But why would they have to occupy that territory? All they have to do is attack industrial sites and infrastructure, hey don’t even have to directly kill anyone. If one of them just sprints in, knocks down a bridge/ factory twice, that’s a small town that’s completely crippled. Good luck targeting any of them with those air strikes when you have to spot a nomadic tribe in the Amazon Rainforest in order to call one in. Even then, ten guys can suddenly come storming into any military base or airfield and see it razed to the ground within an hour. If a couple of guys get into any city, you choose between taking out most of your own city or letting them run rampant.

    The only defense against this is superheroes on your side which means you’re not allowed to use biological warfare or burn down huge swathes of the rainforest...in other words you have no chance of actually striking back. If Brazil can’t effectively strike back, Danner and Co can take it slow and avoid killing anyone while Brazil is unable to defend any of its territory.

    So many people in this thread seems to have completely forgotten how powerful a Danner enhancile actually is and how this story featured a single powered individual conquer an entire nation by just going full speed into the government HQ.
     
  24. Ace Dreamer

    Ace Dreamer Questioning The Nature of our Realities

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    I'm wondering if OL will try and side-step the whole problem by trying to 'sell' O'Neill habitats to any of those involved... Space rain forests? Space cattle ranches? Increase the amount of land under consideration... LL might approve...
     
  25. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    Space cattle ranches would be fantastic, Especially with a dolmen gate to move the animals to a space slaughterhouse, and another dolmen gate to move the meat to a dolmen network hub to move the meat worldwide.

    One of the biggest carbon emitters is methane from Cattle, Sheep, and Pigs. If that primary industry could be moved off planet, we'd be able to reclaim a hell of a lot of land, and get remove a lot of carbon from future pollution.

    That's a magnificent idea Ace, and I hope someone in-story suggests it to OL before the war gets started. The rainforest can return without bloodshed.
     
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  26. Sockmonkey

    Sockmonkey I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Better idea: ditch the whole impractical cattle industry and have Euanthe and some biomancers whip up a bush that can grow steak-fruit.
     
  27. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    No. I want to eat an animal.
     
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  28. nick012000

    nick012000 Gone for Good

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    Pretty sure that Euanthe would be horrified by a biomancer mixing together the Red and Green like that, unless they were just making a better tofu plant that didn't involve any actual animal tissue.
     
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  29. fluffy

    fluffy Not too sore, are you?

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    Why are you assuming the colombians and equadorans are going to be involved at the start. From the description it sounds like the danner tribes are gonna try and make a nation out of the Amazon within Brazil and that all conflicts before this were with the Brazilian government. I mean the eco disaster would still happen but I imagine it would be far more of a Brazilian civil war
     
  30. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Also, it's not just the Accala. They are also allied to tribes from each other country mentioned. So it would be a group of simultaneous civil wars where one side has support from people engaging in their own civil wars.
     
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