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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

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    Mr Zoat, the post isn’t threadmarked.
     
  2. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

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    And she won’t until it’s too late!! Watch as Grayven collects emotionally stunted/traumatised teenagers and teaches them to use their knowledge and powers responsibly by acting as a reasonable authority figure and being a badass father figure! MWAHAHA!!
     
  3. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Next chapter we are back to the bitchy brannigan.

    Who are Sunset friends on earth 16?
    Circe, Zatanna...?
     
  4. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Well worn.

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    So he is basically Zordon of Eltar from power Rangers? Without being crippled and stuck on a tube?
     
  5. Citizen

    Citizen Well worn.

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    Acting like her advocate, but as a mentor or as a parental figure?
     
  6. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Versed in the lewd.

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    With out the Kidnapping either.
     
  7. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Every flipping time I add the threadmark and every flipping time it vanishes when I post.
     
  8. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    Yes, any louder and Luna would have been looking in, asking about the use of Canterlot Royal Voice.

    Ah, the same thing she did with Twilight. But Twilight was actually willing to do as she was told...

    I doubt it would have been pretty either way.

    ...Does she really not know how Harmony works, after all these centuries? Did she just have no curiosity about it at all or was she jsut trrusting blind faith and luck?

    At least she's asking now. Hopefully, she can learn to make amends to Sunset...

    Best not to elaborate on his father, yet...

    Harmony has its own plans for the world. It's content to allow itself to be used for good purposes, but try and do evil with it... Well, look at the 'Mean 6's fate...

    "Often in a way I hadn't even expected her to attempt, either."

    Not even a simple faerie circle... And the exit point presumably didn't always open there every time, given the Sirens in Scandanavia...

    Good time to ask her. Just in case...

    And I see she had the same thought... Or a similar one.

    Well, a minimised risk. Who knows what Earth Bullshit can achieve through ignorance?

    Ah, the subject of so many fanfics. And whole families of story in general. Like the Manga and Anime industry's current fascination with Isekai plots.

    Imagine if she'd learnt how to reach Equestria without the mirror...

    Determined is one way to put it... And now we come to the "Why is still the same age?" question, eh?

    Too true...

    Boy, did she ever misread that situation...

    Oh, wow... He's really going there?

    No prophecies or foresight to give her warning? How refreshing.

    Not sure it was completely of her own volition, when you were practically pushing her through. At least in Sunset's mind.

    Sunset's old enough to know right from wrong. If she does the wrong thing, Grayven would tell her so...

    Bitch, please. Grayven is Best Dad. Of course she's not locked in a lab. Even if she tried, he'd drag her out...

    Gloating, Grayven. Not really polite.

    Seriously, that kind of thing causes mental breakdowns in ponies. We've seen it happen in the series, most notably 'Magical Mystery Cure'...

    I can't help but read that as exasperation. I get the feeling she wants to go find Sunset, but the young lady isn't in the mood for her...

    Not unless you want a taste of the Shovel Speech...

    Yup, Best Dad. Willing to do what it takes, even getting shouted at by his charges.

    Amazing that all this was a five (maybe ten) minute conversation... It feels so much longer...

    Correction:
    ...while there are good reasons for accepting...
     
  9. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    Yes. Do that thing. Absolutely do that thing.
     
  10. Slayer Anderson

    Slayer Anderson Orthodox Heretic

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    Oh for fuck's sake...

    Celestia, she wants you in her life, because she loves you like a mother, or else she wouldn't be half as angry with you as she currently is. It's the fact that you don't approve of, and apparently can't or won't understand, her life choices that's the point of friction.
    So she decided that her other parental figure is now the go-to for emotional support. Because Grayven is apparently just that good at Dad-ing.

    I'm actually looking forward to what Sunset's face looks like when she realizes exactly what she sees Celestia and Grayven, respectively, as.
     
  11. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Versed in the lewd.

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    Honestly, I don't think Celestia is in the wrong here. Making sure someone with so much potnetial power has a solid ethics foundation and a social net to fall back on before they become super powerful, which makes it even harder to relate, makes a lot of sense.

    I don't like how Grayven railroaded and interrupted her. She is old and experienced enough to finish her sentences and make herself heard.
     
  12. Onion

    Onion Making the rounds.

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    I only needed to read one of the latest parts to get the gist of the character. Accidentally Darkside son, anti-life, somewhat amoral. Done
     
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  13. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
  14. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

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    So as a reminder, who are the 3 people Grayven is talking of as being Sunset’s friends? I know there’s Circe, John was mentioned at one point, though not sure about that, and who else?
     
  15. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Well worn.

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    The problem is that Celestia did so while denying Sunset talent. Do you know what ponies do when you fuck up their special talent?



    That yellow pony is normally shy and kind, but a few hours of being unable to use her special talent and... wow.

    I am sure Grayven has kidnapped people before, it just seems like something he would do.
     
  16. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    That would backfire on Grayven horribly...

    Because Celestia would actually want to help the two get together because Romance is just another kind of Friendship.
     
  17. Slayer Anderson

    Slayer Anderson Orthodox Heretic

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    At the same time, though, I'm not entirely sure that Celestia is experience enough with a peer group disagreeing with her that she would know how to react to someone with no inclination to defer to her at all flouting her authority in a relatively civil discussion.

    As far as the point on ethics and morality goes, I agree in principle, but disagree in practice. Much like Grayven's comment about 'giving Sunset practical problems' and letting her solve them, I remember that at one point he instructed her and a few others to bring peace to a central African region undergoing a long-term and gruesome war. How do you do that? What kind of world will you be responsible for creating afterwards? Is it just a short-term peace or a long-term? What does peace even mean? These are all important questions that Sunset had to think long and hard about to complete that 'lesson.'

    While the ethics portion of Grayven's 'lessons' with Sunset haven't been explicit, they are still extant. Grayven merely makes the exercise about using power of any sort correctly and justly instead of forcing the focus on the ethics themselves as the subject matter.

    What this means for me, as someone with a background in education, is that Celestia is actually the one at fault here. There's a common general understanding that if you're teaching one or more children and they fail a test, then that's probably their fault. If you're teaching them and they keep failing your tests, then it's your fault, because they're not understanding the material. Unless a child is entirely against learning anything at all, it's a teacher's responsibility to present the material in a way that appeals to their student. Sunset is a teacher's dream student, honestly, and it's extremely disheartening that Celestia wasn't able to realize her fundamental mistake in approaching the entire issue of her student's education.

    Edit: All of that's not even touching on the fact that Celestia kicked Sunset out of her home for disobeying her authority as Princess and Ruler. Which Sunset implicitly understands to be her mother abandoning her, but Celestia apparently can't. That's on a whole different level than just refusing to teach her anything anymore.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  18. Ganurath

    Ganurath Apologizes For Nothing

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    ...Wait a minute.

    Who are Sunset's biological parents?
     
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  19. Sockmonkey

    Sockmonkey I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I think Celestia suffers from the same problem as Yoda.
    When you've been old and wise for centuries, you forget what it's like to be young and immature.
     
  20. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Well worn.

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    Are they still alive? Sunset left Equestria ages ago.

    Most fans seem to think Sunset is an orphan anyway.
     
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  21. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    And? It would be hilarious for us. That's what matters here.
     
  22. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

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    Yup. Exactly this.

    To give you a perspective from the other side of things, you’ve no idea how dysfunctional my family is. My parents were under a lot of stress because of quarrels with my grandparents. And not just shouting either, full on verbal abuse and degradation (because initially my parents put up with it because of ‘duty’) and throwing around buckets of water and shit, with 6-7 year old me still in the room.

    Eventually my relationship with my parents turned toxic and it was always up to me to de-escalate the situation and manage it with a more mature temperament. Add to this that children are to be seen and not heard (and corporal punishment was acceptable in their generation) it led to a lot of friction. I’m not gonna go into the whole of things, but assuming that you know what’s best for your ward despite them being demonstrably mature enough to make their own choices and not allowing them to have a say in their own life can have pretty lasting consequences, not in them and your relationship. I’m stuck here with bipolar disorder and heavy impulsiveness, with I’m pretty sure could have developed into ASPD if I hadn’t mismanaged the situation and my parents didn’t provide support.

    Celestia is most definitely not in the right. In fact, she messed up spectacularly.
     
  23. Lupercal

    Lupercal Not too sore, are you?

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    Counter point. Sunset still has not demonstrated the kind of maturity that you are talking about. A reminder that her reaction to being told no was to break the law and then expect her privelage to protect her from consaquences. Then in canon she became a petty bully at a high school before trying to mind-control her classmates, and then the whole human world, and turn them into an army to take over equestria and rule it with an iron fist.

    Celestia certainly is not blameless, she is failing to understand Sunset and provide the right support. However, her first reaction, here and in canon, is to make sure that Sunset is physically okay, mentally okay and then welcome her home with no punishment. She is messing up but it comes from a place of care and she is far from being abusive in her mistakes.
     
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  24. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Both sides in this case are just messed up.
     
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  25. ForeverShogo

    ForeverShogo Not too sore, are you?

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    Yeah. A lot of people are forgetting that Sunset is kind of a piece of shit. She's not as bad as she could have been, but she was never going to become an Alicorn if ending up in one of the DC universes didn't basically allow her to find the means to cheat her way there.
     
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  26. Lupercal

    Lupercal Not too sore, are you?

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    Well I wouldn't go that far in the other direction. She essentially rehabilitated herself once it became clear what she was doing was wrong. She isn't a terrible person she just went down a series of bad choices that made things progressively worse and she never went down that route in this story so she shouldn't have it held against her.
     
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  27. Aeess

    Aeess I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Definetly Zatanna, Grayven teased her about it multiple times.
     
  28. Chaoswind

    Chaoswind Lord of nonsense

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    Zatanna is one of her friends her age, Dr Sivan a may be an slightly older friend... Who would be the third?

    Circe is more a magic mentor than a friend, probably the same with Constantine.
     
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  29. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Experienced.

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    The two people who know magic are probably Zatanna and Circe. The third friend is probably Miss Amane, aka Iname, the New God of Death. I remember there was a scene where Grayven is honestly surprised that Sunset would leave the mountain to go hang out with Misa in civilian wear while the girl is working as a model.

    Mr Zoat, how do Misa and Sunset see each other? Just co-workers who like to hang out sometimes? Not so close friends who still care for each other? A person you wouldn't think you'd interact with but consider your best friend?
     
  30. Ace Dreamer

    Ace Dreamer Questioning The Nature of our Realities

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    Missing space?



    This is a fascinating dialogue, tween Grayven and Celestia. It's nice to see Grayven treated as a rational being, though it's pretty clear Celestia doesn't understand him, or the culture that he's from.

    How Celestia would respond to visiting a DC world, given enough time to for it to make a credible impact on her, is another interesting question... The locals would go, "Oh, just another super powered being", and, "She's not trying to kill us, is there a way we can make money out of her?", of course. :)
     
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