With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Circe is more a magic mentor than a friend, same with Constantine.

Zatanna, Iname and Sivanna are probably it.

 

Pretty sure Magnificus is too into science to get into magic. He probably wouldn't dismiss it like other super scientists; it just isn't his interest. The reason I think it's Circe is because they like researching magic together, and Circe seems to enjoy spending time with Sunset. Remember when they were talking about Alicorn ascension and cutie marks? The two seemed to just really bond over things like that. Age is also not a factor when you remember that Circe is thousands of years old. She probably considers intelligence, not age, as a factor in whom she considers friends.

 

Nah, there's no way he wouldn't also enhance his SCIENCE! with magic. Well, really it'd be his engineering with magic. Because Science is just a method of figuring shit out by disproving our beliefs.

 

Again that is a relationship with a mentor, it's too uneven to be considered friendship.

And Magnificus IS into magic and alchemy because it's a complete new subject to him, remember certain magic user and alchemy expert went Ara Ara on him when she was working as an alchemy tutor.

 

Pretty sure you can be friends with your teacher.

The Magnificus you're describing is the one from the Paragon timeline. Renegade!Magni is pretty depressed, so he might not be that motivated to get into in-depth analysis of magic with Sunset.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree until Mr Zoat gives us the facts of whom Grayven was referring to.

 

Didn't Renegade's version of that family all get killed?

 

Really? I mean, in general, yes, but I read Twilight as a young adult. She doesn't read younger than any of her friends, who clearly have been in a work life for a while. Then again, Equestria is quite rural, so it may be that the usual life path is some sort of a on-the-job apprenticeship after finishing basic education, so they could be late teens in S1E1.
Then again, their cuteness probably inhibits a human's ability to guess their age, so they could also be twentysomething equivalents.

 

What about Lynne? (spelling?)

 

Magni survived in the renegade timeline.

 

Dr Thaddeus and Dr Magnificus both survived. All the rest of their family was killed though you are right.

One of Grayven's best dad moments was sitting Sunset and Magnificus down together to talk about how both of them feel like they are not good enough even though they are both superscientists.

 

You know, the current position of the sun is a really bad indication of time on a planet where the sun is manually controlled.

Chapter was pretty much as expected. Grayven is an arsehole, Celestia is uninformed, both are heavily biased. News at 11.

On the one hand a ‘couple of boards’ wouldn’t stop a guy with a hammer, so would be rather useless for preventing people coming through.
On the other hand such could potentially function like the iris on a Stargate, and thus be functionally invulnerable to anything Sunset could throw at it.

God Of Conquest leaking Orange and or Yellow light. Grayven cheats at social combat even harder than he cheats at martial combat.

 

`backthere` was already mentioned, but what actually going on with this sentence?
If he is faux-quoting Celestia, should not there be an opening quote before `Grayven`? Threw me in a loop for a 20 s.
Interestingly, Sunset problems sound too close to my own curriculum grievances: ethics courses suck.

 

What are you studying? Medicine? Always wondered what the curriculum is like for that and why people complain about ethics. I found ethics courses the easiest ones to get a solid B - A- in. I studied bioinformatics at a fairly liberal decently ranking university and only took the one course (it’s combined for undergrads / graduates).

 

I think she wound up becoming an Alicorn in canon, or at least she managed to pull off the same sort of Alicorn-themed magical girl transformation as Twilight Sparkle. That was after Twilight beat her up and she spent a while undergoing character development, though.

 

Only fifteen years in this story. They'd be older, but not necessarily dead.

In the Equestria Girls comic she mentions that she's not particularly close to them. This implies that they're both alive, or at least were when she left Equestria.

Oh, they're definately friends. To start with, Sunset just wanted to study her and Misa wanted to make Grayven happy by encouraging Sunset to be more sociable. But by now they genuinely like one another.

No, that was deliberate.

Or rather, yes, but it was deliberate.

 

The comics are in a different continuity and many of the events there are not cannon and or contradict the series.

 

I know. However, we don't get ANY explanation of why Sunset went through the mirror outside of that.

 

Didn't she think she was going to lose her chance to become an alicorn and she thought Celestia was gonna arrest her or something?

Impulsive and desperate teens do stupid things.

 

Just throwing in my two cents on the topic.

Celestia's lessons on morality, and lessons in general, appear to be very much in the abstract. Since apparently she herself, and most magical ponies, don't have a fundamental understanding of magic, or even physics. Given the tech level of their world, and the cutie marks and magics used to bypass what we'd see as a normal scientific development process, they haven't focused on the scientific methodology that humans have.

Spells would be learned by rote, rather then developed from first fundamentals, because the casters themselves would have little understanding of what they were doing to create them in the first place. A comic book comparison would be Marvel's Forge. He has a mutant power of 'invention', but he rarely understands the devices he creates until he's taken the time to take them apart after the fact and study their operation. Much like a magical talent on Wilson would grant proficiency without the underpinning knowledge base.

Sunset, and most young students (at least in my experience), don't respond to abstract examples well, as it is so removed from the reality of their situation. It's a game of pretend without any investment or cost to them, so there is no connection to it. History and theoretical can get results only if the student can relate to them in some way.

Celestia never gave Sunset a subject or topic that made a personal connection, and actively prohibited any topic that would have garnered such.

Grayven allowed her access to anything she wished, but presented real world issues to solve, giving a front row seat to the problems, and the outcome of the application of her abilities on other lives.

I think Grayven Himself describes it better then I back here.

 

To be fair, Dumbledore's job wasn't actually to teach Harry anything. His job was to hire teachers to teach Harry. Which he did a decent enough job at. Sure, some of the teachers at Hogwarts were completely worthless, but - and I say this having worked in an educational environment for 16 years - every school has it's bad teachers.

As I've said repeatedly what little I know from MLP canon comes from having been in the room not paying attention while someone else watched it, but as she's written here I agree completely. Though I do find it likely that Zoat's taking poetic license to make her look like a bitch-queen who retains power only because her subjects can't bring themselves to think of deposing her.

You can have the right idea and go about it the entirely wrong way. And she did.

Despite the insistence to the contrary of many older folk, age and experience alone do not warrant respect. We all get old if we live long enough, but not everyone gains wisdom with age. After all I guarantee we can all name at least one 70+ person whom we have no respect for. I could name several well known ones myself, but I'd be violating rule 8 so I won't.

And, frankly, at this point I think Grayven might just drop dead if he actually showed anyone an ounce of respect before they earned it the hard way.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say a couple of ponies from Equestria. One male and one female. Most likely one or both of them were unicorns.

 

Well, in my opinion, Celestia's issue is that there was, for centuries, no one around able and willing to question her
or to call her off when she is making a mistake.

An alicorn is litteraly a royalty backed with a very tangible divine right to rule.

She has ruled alone for one thousand years. She has become a permanent fixture of Equestria.
I hardly think that there would be any pony able to fathom that Celestia may be wrong at time or to simply make
mistakes. Worse Celestia may truly at some degree start to believe that she is Always right.


Sunset anger toward Celly has its root in the simple fact that Celestia simply failled to live up to the perfect and flawless
standard that many pony have about alicorn in general and celestia in particular.

 

Except not, as she's apparently done it all on her own. I haven't even read more then a post of this, but I can already see how it went.

"I want to learn the thing. Teach me the thing."

"No. Go do this other thing. Get frustrated as I ignore your pleas, and softly chide you for not figuring it out on your own as I pull mentor trickery."

When someone comes to my Judo club and asks to be taught a technique, a technique that and injure, cripple, or even kill another human being. I TEACH THEM THE TECHNIQUE.

I make sure they understand how dangerous it is, I make sure they understand just how quickly damage can be done, and I make sure I teach them the "Polite" way to apply things in training vs competition.

But the point is, I fucking teach. I don't go....

"I want to learn martial arts."

"Go make some friends."

Also, if someone is extremely anti-social and hates interacting with people, and you fucking knew that going in, then you damn well ought to know that they are going to balk at what they will clearly view as you wasting their fucking time.

Which, in turn, makes you a failure as a teacher.

While also knowing that he was in no way, shape or form, going to be a normal student. I'll blame Rowling's writing. But literally every year Harry got into shit that he really needed to be better prepared for.

Which he consistently fails at. Hell, he hires a fraud, and wastes an entire valuable year of children's education, in a convoluted plan to expose him.

No, no he did not. Hell, even Snape, who is amazing at what he does, is still an absolutely horrendous teacher.

There are maybe, MAYBE, three competent teachers in the whole school.

And yes, I'm well aware that Harry is utter shit as a student and would rather go play the sportsball then actually crack open a book and learn his craft. I will also point out that in book one, he was absolutely excited to learn magic (never happens again) until Snape fucked it.

 

Who were the three competent teachers? Minerva, bardy crouch jr and lupus?

 

Minerva, Flitwick and Sprout. Although depending on your head-canon, none of them are competent what with all the problems students had to solve or the danger they’re regularly put in. Lupin could also be called competent, in that he taught about creatures and managed to teach Harry a spell. Although the fact he got his class to confront a boggart in front of each other, displaying their greatest fears for everyone else to see, calls that into question.

Edit: Barty Crouch junior was creepy and dangerous, but I don’t remember him being a great teacher. Although the only lesson I can recall was exposition on the unforgivable’s, so maybe off screen he was a great teacher? (Y’know, apart from the wanting to murder his students thing).

 

I suspect that Snape was reasonably competent at making sure his students learned the material. He sucked at everything else that a modern teacher is expected to do, but I have no doubt that most students know how to make potions after taking his class.

 

Bardy Croutch in spite of being a literal enemy plant was the most competent defence against the dark arts teacher harry's year had, he actually did his job and taught them how to fight the dark arts and what they were. Unlike the other teachers who tip-toed around the subject. When his tenure ended all of his students where more capable of defending themselves which was his job.

we should remember his class wasn't about ethics or math or anything like that defence against the dark arts is a self-defence course at best and a military train program at worst.

EDIT:
Basically he showed them "This is what your enemy looks like, this is what it does and it's offensive capabilities, here is how to defend against it."

What else is a modern teacher expected to do?

 

Support their students. Maintain a sense of fairness and decorum. Inspire not just skill but interest in the subject matter.

 

Yeah I agree that Barty did his job if all his lessons were like the unforgivable lecture, I just don’t think we saw any other lessons (although that could be applied to most of the classes I think, so extrapolating is fine). I don’t know what spells, if any, he taught though (in a teach them to cast it way, not “this spell exists” way).


Snape could: not bully the students, not show favouritism or prejudice, not attack the students, not try and frame the students, not help terrorists that want to kill the students (extenuating circumstances non withstanding), not try and scare/surprise the students while they’re handling dangerous substances. They’s probably more, but off the top of my head those are the reasons Snape was a bad teacher.

 

This is entirely unfamiliar to me, I have never encountered a teacher that did all of those things as well as actually teaching the class.

Not defending snape he I completely agree with you.
I think he expected his student to be competent enough at that stage to be able to learn a spell after having it demonstrated to them.

 

A couple of reasons I saw pointed out in a fic were that Snape expected students to follow instructions exactly without ever bothering to explain why procedures were meant to be done the way they were. Meanwhile he also refused to teach any of the actual theory behind potionmaking that would have explained why ingredients interact to produce the effects they do.