With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

maybe 'thing'

 

Gonna be honest... This feels dangerously close to the politics line...

 

And so soon after Zoat received a warning from the mods.

 

Not really he is just explaining how it work in a drive by way it's not his fault that America is built this way. And I am fairly sure everyone is in character and it is plot relevant

 

Thank you, corrected.

 

As an American it feels pretty accurate, if anything it might be more charitable than I think is warranted.

 

He's not really talking about the accuracy of what was said in the chapter, but rather that it may break, or at least getting a bit too close to, the no politics rule.

 

Sounds comfy. If they weren't ponified right now, I'd say it's a great place for some sweet horizontal boogie.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Truth in television, so to speak, from what I hear. It's bad enough that many people simply can't be bothered to play the Grand Game...

And he's improving his pony mobility. Good to see him trying. Be strong! Think of the plot! Boy, this site needs a better 'nudge-nudge-winl-wink' type smiley. Or maybe a Groucho Marx eyebrow waggle...

But there's still that hint of curiosity, isn't there? What it feels like to walk on two legs, to have hands to manipulate objects rather than telekinesis, other naughty things...

She sees what you're doing, Grayven...

And I think she enjoys it.

To be honest, I have to wonder what the founding government of the time were thinking when they developed this system. Did they just enjoy arguing over tiny matters or something?

And the country is small enough, Celestia knowledgable and experienced enough, that that works. And she can still make mistakes...

Though, really, would anyone listen to something you decree without asking Celestia for confirmation? At this point, anyway?

The trick is making that decision with a clear head and heart. A lack of knowledge, a bad day... anything might lead to a decision made in haste.

Oh, boy howdy, here we go...

A grand experiment... But...

The engines of government are so complex, no-one can repair them... Especially the ones holding the throttle.

Because each state gets to make that choice? That's more than a little...

...Heh, trolling on a national scale. But as Grayven noted last time we saw him, some prospective candidates aren't people you want anywhere near power.

Ha! Got to love that sense of humour!

Not a chance in hell... Maybe it worked well enough when there were only thirteen colonies drawn together into a nation, but as things expanded.. Well.

I suspect she'll understand that metaphor quite well. Knight is a bit if a flag, isn't he? He points where the wind of popular opinion blows.

Ooh, that's gonna cause arguments somewhere...

Yeah, humanity is... If I were designing a species, I would not have used some of the traits nature gave us...

And people can change, but other people's memories of them might not. "But you fuck one goat..." and all that.

The problem is remembering someone's position. These days, it's a little easier - Nothing is forgotten on the Internet - but...

God bless America... Where the most important topics are the ones no-one wants soundbites about...

And that one question cuts to the heart of the problem.

Unfortunately, the people in charge of fixing it... Are the ones who benefit from it being the way it is...

Oh, boy, Mr Zoat... I can see this making for arguments... I'm not even sure what to say for fear of someone screaming about Rule 8, even though this is completely in-universe for the fic...
But for what it's worth, folks: Extra Credits did a series on American politics that might prove informative. Please, no arguing?

 

I feel like since it's commenting on the system in place, without discussing the morality behind various stances people take and what stances they 'should' take, it should be fine.

I will be very disappointed if this is too far, but it's not like pre-WTR I came here to read anything that came close to the politics line so I wouldn't know prior incidents of what is and isn't over the line.

 

The rule is Current politics, not political systems in the abstract. Especially given that the American political system was designed two hundred years ago, this isn’t current, and the issues being debated have been significant talking points for seventy years or more. More to the point, though, the post itself isn’t designed to take a specific stance on any issue nor campaign for it.

 

Yea... I think you missed the last couple paragraphs...

 

Or, to put it bluntly, you misread them.

While the term 'virtue signaling' is modern, the practice isn't. Neither are what Grayven terms 'Flag Issues.' Nixon did it during the seventies and Wilson did it during the teens before that. None of that is really modern, nor is it argued for or against, just explicitly mentioned as a part of the political system. The opinions Grayven espouses as to the effectiveness of broad change by sweeping reform of controversial issues aren't actually political, they're cynical. As is the large part of Grayven's criticisms of the American political system. None of it errs significantly towards the either side of the political spectrum, he's just kind of skeptical that anything of significance will be accomplished either way.

But still, that's my take on it and I'm not a mod. If you feel differently, ask for a mod to take a look at the post. As much as discussing contemporary real-world politics is supposed to be off-limits, so is tangential subjects and derails, which this is close to becoming.

The actual discussion should err towards an investigation of whether or not two colorful giant ponies talking about the electoral college is absurdist humor or just cute.

 

Why not both?

 

I'm getting the vibe Zoat is baiting everyone. And I do mean everyone, including the hypothetical USA.

 

‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’
Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

 

Turns out there's problems with literally every form of government, up to and including no government (hi, Somalia).

If this has redefined anyone's worldview then... sorry?

 

Some might argue that that is the entire point of the government being the way it is: nothing on the national level is ever decided on unless an absolute majority of people across various groups agree with it. There are a couple exceptions, but they are usually oversights in the system. Unfortunately, that usually means anything but the military gets the boot.
The founding fathers were huge proponents of state power: all laws and decisions have to be local and done by the state, except in the case of things such as military matters or foreign diplomacy - where a single individual has to take the lead and have basically full control.
These are things that a lot of political campaigns state things about. America’s global and military policy are big issues presidents have a lot of say in.

Basically, some people view America’s lack of decision making as a nonissue. And besides, some presidents have certainly done things neither side agrees with, and still remain fairly popular.

 

Do we know what Luna's human shape would look like, anyway? Or what changes Sunset's went through after becoming an Alicorn?

Transparent deflection is transparent.

 

/cast Mage Hand

 

This confused me for a moment until I realised that in America 'state' power is like 'public' school in Britain; it doesn't mean the nation-state but rather the individual provinces.

Yes, it came up a little while ago. Sunset is taller and buffer than she was while Luna would look like this.

 

It is interesting to see how Grayven and OL explain topics they bring up seemingly non sequiturs and use it to explain an idea. It helps to slightly confused people so they try harder to think about the topic. It's a nice a brilliant way to do dialogue and one of the better aspects of zoats writing. Here it how people view the world.

 

It Is always so very tedious and frustrating for, say a brit, to try and explain the American political system.

 

Basically yeah: the idea behind the government here is that it’s way too big to govern as a single entity: so States should be more powerful in certain areas than the nation itself. Which is why you get so many laws differing from state to state and why law enforcement also differs. Unlike many other countries, the states were founded by what were at the time considered radically different groups of people who wanted to remain fairly independent. Heck, the Constitution wasn’t actually the first US government - that was the articles of confederation, which failed within a span of years due to having even less power. The US government after was created to be just strong enough that it fixed what glaring issues could be found in the Articles.

Of course, states rights being as strong as they were was part of how we got the civil war.

 

Should be beliefs

 

Oh dear.

 

Thank you, corrected.

 

The Electoral College part has always baffled me, in that your voting to let other people vote, but your vote doesn't actually make THEM vote the way you voted., it just advises them to. It's a bit like the (Canadian) Senate, which is supposed to be a 'sane second look' at legal issues, but ends up being a rather costly club house for appointed political friends.

A lot of modern systems are there to uphold the majority while protecting the minority. But there's always a cost to trying to have it both ways.

 

I tend to assume that originally it existed due to the practical problems of communicating the results of the election to a central point.

 

It's been said that the US is just a bunch of little countries hiding under a trench coat so they can sit at the table for big countries.

 

Effective.