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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    While I don't recognise the setting, there's always one universal constant you can count on: Stupidity.

    So... This Paul became a god? I don't even... What? <One quick Google later: Gate: The JSDF Fought there> Well, that came out of nowhere.

    Clearly someone in power needs wants something he can't get from another deity. Or something he doesn't want to admit to seeking.

    I see deity!Paul's priests are humble fellows. No fear of runaway theology here.

    Evidently deity!Paul didn't agree with their goals. I wonder how much power he can bring to bear in the world...

    Interesting. Presumably at some point, deity!Paul merged with this universe's Ophidian, and they were never separated?

    ...Wait, is this a future OL? I... I am totally lost! :D And I am loving it!

    His lack of incorporeality is presumably part of the 'trap' he mentioned earlier, or a fundamental part of this reality... And fuck this emperor guy. He has no idea what he's just stepped in, has he?

    Heh. I doubt he was much of a believer before this. Methinks that will change.

    Which God? Because OL wouldn't be having any of that shit from jumped-up elementals.

    Ah, there it is. The moment of realisation that he may have done fucked up good.

    ...Yesss... ;) That didn't turn out so well once the guys with guns turned up, huh? That's the Japanese Self Defense Force of the novels/anime, by the way.

    Clearly Molt here expects Deity!Paul to be one of the omniscient ones...

    See, that kind of pride? That's the kind Orange Lanterns just love to knock over. Especially once they get all the information.

    What, burning gold coins or a sheep? Ugh. Not like he can eat either. Didn't do the research, eh?

    Oh, wow. He's that desperate for a way to resist the JSDF troops, huh?

    How about throwing yourself on their mercy, apologising profusely and paying any and all reparations they ask for? Because boy, you are screwed.

    Wow, that would have failed so hard. They would have been picked up instantly, because the Gate they mentioned? Opens up in the middle of Tokyo's Ginza district. The American equivalent would be, say, Times Square. People in medieval garb might have stuck out a bit, especially foreign garb...

    Well, there's your problem right there.

    And when Deity!Paul gets a good look at them, he'll go "Oh, humans from Earth. Finally, I might be able to get out of here!"

    Oh, you're an entire empire, are you? :p Must be amazing. What's it like?

    Theeeeere we go. He wants to be remembered as a mighty emperor, then. One who took no shit from a stupid senate.

    Yeah, look deeper, and you'll see he's not someone worth backing.

    You fool, never give an Orange Lantern a blank check!

    Ah, trying to push the monster (Seriously, this guy is listed as the main badguy in the wiki article I linked.) Setting the tone of their relationship early, aren't we? He would totally be the worst possible choice to wield the Orange Light.

    Seriously, this guy. A dick of truly cetacean proportions.

    Oh, I foresee that going so well... Hilarity will ensue! Well, some might not find it funny, but they don't count.

    Well, this was an interesting alternate. Whether true alternate Paul or merely an alternate OL, I don't know. Either way, I foresee things going a lot smoother for all involved. Except maybe the Gods of this world... I foresee them having an even worse time than in Canon, especially if Deity!Paul can take action against them...
     
  2. Tzeentch

    Tzeentch I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Makes even more sense why the cult of the God of Ambition would be so marginalized by the other deities of Falmart, seeing as the advancement of mortals is something Paul supports.
     
  3. King of Frost

    King of Frost Wishing I was somewhere colder no doubt.

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    This appears to be the main OL actually. When the whole Ambush Bug thing happened, OL not only saw alternate versions of himself, but his own personal future.

    It's why we know Paragon will eventually travel to Wilson and recruit Nightmare Moon into the orange lantern corp. It's why we know the main version of OL that we're following will meet Prince Zuko from Avatar and help Azula's mental state recover, and how we know he will mentor Tai Lung from Kung Fu Panda and help him see the error of his ways.

    This appears to be the main Paragon OL just in the far future when he starts exploring non-DC universes.
     
  4. doug89

    doug89 Versed in the lewd.

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    I can't remember where I picked this up, but I remember something about Gates normally being temporary and short lived. When establishing a foot hold in the fantasy world the JSDF accidentally set up their defenses in a geometric shape which coincidentally acted as an enormous magical formation that kept the Gate open indefinitely.
     
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  5. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Those alternates may not have all been future versions of paragon, but rather other versions that also achieved enlightenment.

    In the Equestria chapter Luna stated that she and Celestia were 8.000 years old, but the Luna in the renegade chapters said that Celestia was around a thousand years old.

    Karna, а, planet in Vega, also existed in that version of Equestria, but I think Zoat said that that version of Wilson is in the DC universe, while the one we saw in the previous chapters wasn't.

    This could also be another version that became enlightened, or it may be future paragon.

    We've seen other orange Lanterns and it wouldn't be unusual if some of them achieved enlightenment after some time.
     
  6. Silverias

    Silverias Know what you're doing yet?

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    God, I tried to like gate. I really did. It takes itself too seriously for what it is and then fails to live up to the promise it makes. The concept works really well. Friction and interactions between a fantasy world linked to the modern world, with all the political strain that comes with one country having exclusive access to a resource-rich diplomatic goldmine. It was so blunt and so unpleasant that it felt like I was sitting on a square bedpost.

    This is very interesting writing from Zoat though, we'll see where it goes.
     
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  7. B00ki5h

    B00ki5h Verified: Oddball, Lurker, and Dabbler

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    Should’ve asked for the bunny queen while he was at it.
     
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  8. Agent Orange

    Agent Orange Experienced.

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    I think this Paul is one of those Future Agent Oranges (like the one we saw in Paragon MLP episode - the one with him recruiting Nightmare Moon). After he became a quasi-New God/Controller equivalent.

    Or maybe the "sage" Agent Orange that played Azula's therapist.

    It doesn't really matter because Gate "gods" are very much 'Jumped Up Elementals'. The apotheosis bar is very very low.

    Future Paul was probably on one of his Multiversal trips, spreading the word of Our Scaly Lady Ophidi-chan when the locals decided that he's trying to muscle in on their gig and that he could use some time on the bench.

    Ah yes. The mighty, nigh-godlike, early 2000s Earth. Possessed of technology so powerful it completely trumps the Walmartian gods, their champions, and the archwizards alike!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  9. Old Knife

    Old Knife Not too sore, are you?

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    I honestly want to read about this more than I do about Paul/Grayven.

    Guess I'm a sucker for reasonable! Fixfics.
     
  10. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
    This is the far future version from the second half of Fool's Canon.
     
  11. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    So is this a future paragon, because some of those could have been just alternates that also achieved enlightenment?
     
  12. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Oh, yes, Gate is a bad series. No argument. In theory an a-symmetric conflict between modern weapons and magic users could be interesting. What we got was an effortless stomp by a modern army against Roman legions with some heavy cavalry. No magic, no monsters worth anything and no demigods. And it didn't even handle the Japanese politics end of things very well!
    Yes.
     
  13. Agent Orange

    Agent Orange Experienced.

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    The most SoD breaking part of the series is that US, China, Russia and the other big boys would just let Japan control access to an entire new planet in exchange for... mining rights? Really? You find out there's an entire world with actual gods and magic (as unimpressive as it is) and your ambition ends with 'let's mine it for oil'. Right.

    Figuring out the Gate spell alone is worth almost any concession. It opens access to arbitrary number of worlds.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  14. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Wouldn't they? There's only one gate, and it's in the middle of Japan. If Japan didn't want to share, would any of them invade to conquer Japan?

    China might if Japan alienated the US enough that they broke their alliance, but I can't see either Russia or the US doing it.
    That's a pretty big deal for Japan. Especially since (I assume) they're getting embargoed by all of the nations they're pissing off with their actions regarding the gate.
    It's also the only war justification that makes any sense.
     
  15. BR549

    BR549 This is filth! FILTH!!

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    It's also Japanese Self-Defense Force-wank to a ridiculous degree in the modern world (IIRC there's a bit where JSDF basic infantry roflstomp U.S. Navy SEALs) and the author is one of the the "WW2 Japan Did Nothing Wrong Before Those Evil Warmongering Americans Attacked Our Peaceful Shores" type of people.

    The above is probably why. For those reasons and others (such as, say, the "multi-thousand-year-old eldritch being looks like a 12 year old") I've avoided it like the plague, but I trust Zoat can make it interesting in this context.

    Even if that means the Great Orange Roflstomp.

    Especially if that means the Great Orange Roflstomp.


    (That said, if you want a series that takes the basic premise of Gate - "gate between Today and Fantasy World opens, culture clash ensues" - and actually is GOOD, take a look at CopCraft. It's great stuff.)
     
  16. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    I would say that the understandable lack of any plan for dealing with the appearance of a magic gateway to another world would slow down the response from the major powers long enough for Japan to take the lead. It makes a lot of sense for the political and military leadership to just pursue any plan that seems to make immediate sense with no real grand strategy or long-term planning given how completely unexpected the whole appearance of the Gate is. This could easily explain a lot of shortsighted or badly-planned actions from otherwise intelligent and canny leaders.

    Once the situation stabilized the Japanese government could simply take advantage of the fact that no one actually wants to start a new World War to trade a few minor and largely symbolic concessions in return for permission from the international community to do as they will in the new world.

    Think about how difficult it would be for Russia and China to gain access to the Gate if Japan is totally uncooperative. The fact that the Gate is located in the heart of Tokyo means that there is no way for foreign governments to justify claiming the land needed to control access to the Gate and ensures that any attempt to use force would be the same as trying to conquer Japan. The only options that wouldn't risk starting a massive war would involve the use of economic and diplomatic tools to pressure the government of Japan to make concessions or the use of more deniable means with special forces and spies to achieve limited objectives.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  17. Agent Orange

    Agent Orange Experienced.

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    I'm not sure he can do 'the Great Orange Roflstomp' even with the host wielding his ring [is Paul Sauron in this case?] due to the local anti-'divine meddling' measures in place. Now if ringbearing Dio Diabo took a stroll to the other side of the Gate... well, that's a different story and probably won't happen.
     
  18. Nashk

    Nashk Getting out there.

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    One of the most frustrating things about zoat is reading snippets of all these fascinating fics and knowing you eont be able to get more for a long time.

    I find this foray into Gate enthralling and I wish we could get a full fic from it.

    But that's the nature of the beast, good chapter.
     
  19. dxdragon

    dxdragon Experienced.

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    Oh wow, now this is interesting!

    An Orange Paul who ascended to Godhood in GATE?

    Surprised he is just the God of Ambition. Expand your portfolio!

    I'd love to see GATE's reaction to Paul descending down to completely change how they view this world.
     
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  20. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Technically this is just a future version of Paragon from the DC universe who apparently came to the GATE universe and lost his body and was bound to his ring.
     
  21. OrigamiPhoenix

    OrigamiPhoenix Getting sticky.

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    I thought it was fairly realistic in an enjoyable fashion; the story takes the "medieval" part of "medieval fantasy" seriously, and it reflects in not just the battles but also the dynamics of the other-world and how Japan's interference dramatically impacts them. The protagonist Itami and most of the characters in general are sort of bland, the harem elements feel forced, and it's just a little too grim at times, but I don't think it's by any means a terrible work.
    Maybe it's because it's one of the few works that tries to deconstruct the isekai genre. Could also be that I just hate how plenty of other isekai that even mentions something heavy like slavery treats said subjects with none of the respect they deserve.

    Oh, and just to be clear, I'm talking about the manga, not the dumpster-fire anime.

    Well, that is basically what happens. The various global powers try all forms of soft power as well as blackmail and even once tried black ops to capture guests from the other-world... only to run into each other and Rory the Reaper, an immortal demi-god apostle of Emroy, the god of death, darkness, violence, and war.

    I really enjoyed the premise, unfortunately the anime was disappointing. Buddy cop plots aren't really my thing (even if the characters themselves were great) and it was really light on the fantasy-side worldbuilding. Would you know if the LN/manga would be more satisfying?
     
  22. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Example of why it's terrible.

    Lelei gets possessed so one of the gods can talk to the characters.

    We are told this is 100% fatal with no chance of surviving.

    Lelei survives.

    No reason is given and no special effort is made by the characters to make this happen. She just does.
    That bit was terrible in both the manga and the anime.

    Three major powers getting soldiers into Japan is perfectly possible. America has more soldiers than that just in its embassy. I could accept that dug-in Japanese special forces would have a very good kill-death ratio against small squads of attackers. Nor so sure about those attackers pressing the attack and clearly having no real idea what they were doing, but okay.

    But what the heck were they doing there? I mean, if Rory hadn't been around and they reached their objective what exactly would have happened? They'd have captured a couple of Saderans. And... Profit? The people they would have captured would have no special bypass to get back home. The people holding them would have no access to the gate. They'd just be left holding proof that they committed an act of war.

    And that's not even getting into 'only America has mixed-race special forces'.
     
  23. Agent Orange

    Agent Orange Experienced.

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    Hey, Mr Zoat, what happens if Paul's ring is taken to the other side of the Gate (to Ginza or wherever)? Could he just reform his body?
     
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  24. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    He doesn't know.

    Outside of his perspective, Rory kept her powers on the far side of the gate, so it probably operates under the same rules.
     
  25. Ardy

    Ardy I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Now I’m imagining Paul in the Salvation War being annoyed at both how horrible Hell is and how unbearably smug all the humans are
     
  26. Dur'id the Druid

    Dur'id the Druid Know what you're doing yet?

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    I fully agree. I'm just going to throw in a couple of book recommendations here that actually did that really well.

    Hells Gate by David Weber and Linda Evans.
    Island in the Sea of Time by S M Sterling.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
  27. Agent Orange

    Agent Orange Experienced.

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    Plenty of asymmetric warfare sure but no fights against magic users, only primitives?
    Did you read some AU version of ISOT? If so, gimme!
     
  28. OrigamiPhoenix

    OrigamiPhoenix Getting sticky.

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    It would have meant information about the other-world that wasn't being fed to them by the Japanese government. It's been a while, but I think that at that point there wasn't a lot of information being shared about the other-world even between the major powers.
    They could have also been bargaining chips (through proxies where the government responsible could never been officially implicated, even if they were under suspicion), as their kidnapping would've resulted in a breakdown in relations with the Saderan Empire and a major loss of face for Japan.

    A lot of this was half-stated through the dialogue of political douchery from the parties responible, if my memory isn't failing me. I honestly don't know how much credit to give the author in this case.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  29. Impartial Panic

    Impartial Panic I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Wouldn't take much to piss them off.
    IIRC they are rather upset with Lelei in the novels.
    something about how she's using scientific knowledge from earth to boost her magic.

    given Paul's tendency to try and uplift civilizations the gods decided to step in.
    The arrival of the JDSF is really going to rain on their parade especially if Diablo is tapped early.

    She's a wizard she ain't got to explain shi...oh wait the whole point of her power boost is that she is explaining it.

    pity paul didn't manage to deal with Prince idiot before the bunny girl massacre
    would have kept one of the worst antagonists from having her one bad day event.

    well besides recovering people captured in the gate slave raid on ginza Japan is trying to use the gate as a means to access resources.
    IIRC they made a mining deal with one of the captured kings from the second battle of Alnus hill.
    Japan is trying to use the gate to become less dependent on trade and more resource secure.

    the great powers want a piece of that pie, a fresh world to strip mine or if all else fails
    a safe harbor to evacuate to in case of WW3
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  30. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    So did Paul get his body automatically destroyed when he came through because he can now qualify as a god due to his powerful soul and when he entered the universe its natural magical laws took over and destroyed his body?
     
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