With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

He may not trust authority figures and cops due to bad experience.

I doubt he's only interested in doing his duty.

I doubt they care what the Whites care or think.

Most likely.

He's mostly interested in ending the racism against Whites, so the planet being fixed doesn't really help him all that much in that regard.

The Red's and Green's can now be racists under a sky instead of underground.

As long as they don't harm any innocents on the Green or Red side.

He doesn't know Paul so he doesn't have any idea of his character or his motivations.

His actions may be leading to the end of racism, but the reason for him doing them could be for a reason that doesn't have anything to do with racism.

Yes, yes it does.

The Green's and Red's in this city may not do that, but other may be doing it, most likely using M'gann as a propaganda piece on how White's can be brave, capable and heroic.

I doubt they ever considered that.

 

Thank you, corrected.

In this city, they're not doing surface reclamation. The Reds know exactly what's happening and the Greens know that it's happening.

No, she's a White who happens to have a Green parent.

For some reason I'm reminded of the Southern Victory series. A Jewish man who escaped genocide in Russia lives in the Confederacy and joins the Freedom Party. When another member of the party comments in an affronted tone of voice that they don't murder Jews in the Confederacy he replies 'No, here all your Jews are black.'. And he was a loyal member of the party who ended up being executed for war crimes.

Thank you, corrected.

 

Anyone else have the impression that Paul is being less patient with people? His needs totally dictating his conduct?

Perhaps a vacation is needed? Grayven has Eqestria to help him relax after all.

Also, it's still hilarious that shapeshifters discriminate by look.

 

Pretty sure this guy showed up on the Renegade side, Karman sent Grayven to talk to him to facilitate "peace" because this guy and his group took over this city without being under the direct chain of command of the hyper clan (they were members).

The whole episode ended with Karman killing most of the rulers of Mars and Grayven using a God nuke to erase Olympus (the Mars super volcano) apparently killing Karman and the hyper clan people in that base.

 

Yeah, basically since he arrived, paul has been going hard. he's on what 4 years of constant high pressure look after Earth, his Sector, and all of space. Were saying he needs to do more, but he is doing more then 99.9% of humans to improve the species. If one man is needed to uplift us because we can't work together on our own, are we really worth the effort of him forcing us every step of the way? One man can do it but 7 billion can't?

Paul needs to bring Jade to Tamaran with Kori and Alan for vacation when a gap in Reach war occurs. Diana would also enjoy the visit i believe.

Heck a good number of people paul is friends with could do with this. Barry Allen, Zatana, and a good chunk of anyone who faught the Sheeda can do with a vacation.

Or a Mother of Mercy day long vision. Once a week for a few months?

 

Not a lot of people can be patient with racist assholes.

And technically by telepathic signature.

They can change their color, but not their mental state.

I don't think it was ever confirmed if they did destroy the base or Karmang.

The place the fortress was located on was destroyed, but Karmang could have also just teleported it to some place else, and also teleported himself away to a safe place.

And will most likely befriend Kori.

A highly empathetic and brave warrior princess, just like Diana.

I'm reminded of this other YJ SI story in which Kori is one of the main characters and she befriends both Diana and Donna.

 

O.O i was only thinking of Kori showing Alan around since she is into him. Now i'm head cannoning Kori going after Diana and Alan.

"We must join Tamaran, Themyscia, and Man's World in marriage. FOR PEACE!"

And how do Diana or Alan say no to peace? I was also getting Diana Alan vibes for a while so Kori's interest threw me until this realization.

Yeah that was definitely the same story that made me think Diana would have fun on Tamaran. (Since Kori goes to Themyscira in it, Diana going to Tamaran would be cool so i have both sides of how it would occur).

 

Funny, but I doubt Kori will end up with Diana and Alan.

Although a Diana/Alan pairing may work.

 

Now I'm imagining a potential child of theirs. Part-Titan or god, part Will-elemental, possibly a nascent Goddess of Will or Hope. I'm less into Babies Ever After story endings than I used to be, but I'd be down to see it.

 

Who are you to ruin someone's shipping dreams?

That's Zoat's job.

 

That glorious bastard has been ruining my shipping dreams for quite some time now. I go to bed every night furious that he denies me my fantasies, but manage to forgive him with every new chapter, even though they further push me away from what I want.

 

He doesn't have a monopoly on it.

 

I found the whole 'White Friend' thing really funny. You won't find anyone brag about that in RL.

 

Racial prejudices don't make sense in a telepathic society, to me. They feel the effects of their actions on others. They can sense the pain and hurt they cause. Burners might not care for others, but actual modern Martians should be far more empathetic towards their own people, even if they are different colors.

Unless a good portion of their population are actually sadists and enjoy the suffering of others, or perhaps worse, feel it and just don't care... If we go back in time to the era of slavery, and give all humans telepathic abilities, I would suspect slavery would end very fast.

Maybe I'm projecting too much of my human values and morals onto them, but I don't think so.

 

Sword of the Stars II: Born of Blood called. They would like you to meet the Zuul.

 

Eh, I think there are better possible explanations for "shapeshifters deeply care about what color skin you were born with" than "they're morons".

My head-canon (which may, of course, be completely wrong) is that it's not that they were born with skin of a particular shade, it's that being [White] or [Green] or [Red] is about being born with a certain mindset, one that you in part inherited from your parents in the womb, and the skin color is just a manifestation of who you are.

Perhaps being White means that you're warrior caste: Your enjoyment of conflict and crushing your enemies was a necessity way back when Mars was wild and unfriendly, but a detriment now that it's a peaceful communitarian society. Your mindset and values are simply different from most people around you, and they shun you because, on a pretty basic level, you live in a society that isn't designed for people like you, and there's good and solid reasons why everyone else has moved on from the kind of society you'd be happy in and doesn't want to go back to that.

To me, it would be more interesting if this is a conflict without the easy answer of "You're all being morons. Stop being morons. There, everything's solved!"

 

JLA 86 Superman "Martians choose their physical form as a reflection of their ideals and belief system. It's a part of their culture."

So yes, the difference in the comics was more like a political party than an actually different phenotype.

And that issue is part of the Fernus storyline "Trial by Fire."

That was part of the JLA's shock at MM's transformation into Fernus, that the demonic transformation into Fernus would have been MM's choice.

A note for those who don't read the comics- Trial by Fire is the storyline that established that Martians used to be Burning Martians in New Earth continuity. It never said anything about the Guardians making the different "races" though.

Of course, the comics later introduced Green serial killers and White Martians who wouldn't hurt a fly, so DC apparently forgot that it was supposed to be a psychological and not genetic difference.

 

Maybe when it concerns the Whites their empathy is just lowered due to the Guardian programming.

I don't think it was ever stated in this story or in the show that Whites were inherently violent like their comic counterparts.

 

I think I saw the Sword/Crest series a long time ago. I think I still have the HK subbed DVD's stored in a tote in my garage.

If only every conflict could be solved that easily. While your head-canon is interesting, it doesn't work with their society. If the Whites are their warriors, then there should be a history of that. Instead, they aren't. The Green's are, and apparently always have been. But who knows? The YJ Martian lore is pretty weak, other than "there's rampant racism".

This makes the most sense. When we first see M'gann, she's the cute and naive 'girl next door' type, who just wants to fit in. While she has no trouble brain blasting her own team to keep her secret, she does it out of fear, not aggression. And even though she gets mind-rapey years later, she eventually stops that practice.

The only other White we ever see is her brother in S3, who is violently working to change Mars (probably with Hyperclan, but it hasn't been name dropped). But the fact that M'gann's family is mixed shows that all Whites can't be aggressive by nature. M'gann certainly isn't.

Mental conditioning by the Guardians makes the most sense, but why would they do that? Creating a caste based race that would be rampant with racism/classism would go against their own principles. But it would explain why there's an inherent near-reverence towards "The Reds".

This is, of course, assuming that Burners existed in YJ, and that the Guardians messed with their biology. In this story, it's however Zoat fanwanks it.

 

Actually as per the GUARDIAN in the crashed ship with the burning Martian, all of the sub types have the comportment and empathy the Guardians implanted, but the red ones are the least changed... So on Average reds are the ones that have less empathy/more logical of all the subtypes, white appear to be more emotional on average and the green ones are the middle ground... Even if I suspect their emotions are slightly weaker than Whites and that in exchange they got extra willpower.

 

They may have just wanted to get rid of the Burners and the racism thing was a side effect that they just didn't feel was necessary to deal with.

They have done some fairly worse things than just allowing racism to exist.

 

Not to go full Inviolate, but the Burning Martians were terrifying. So them going overboard to ensure Martian society stayed permanently crippled and never attained the capacity to repair themselves back into Burners would be... still vile, but understandable, and in character.

 

Fortunately the mods have made it clear that QQ doesn't particularly care what happens to fictional characters.

 

That wasn't a conversational side track. Paul exercised diplomatic skills to establish a basis for trust and acceptable approach for the more official meeting to come. This is all in the service to Paul getting what he wants.

 

They don't need to be inherently violent by human standards. The point is more that it would make sense to me if Whites and Greens really were different deep down, that it's not just about superficial skin color.

I mean, lets say, for example, that being a 'Green' meant that you were born with a mindset that liked peace and stability, and focused on cooperation and peaceful coexistence, whereas being 'White' meant that you were born valuing individual achievement and gaining strength through competition and struggle. It's not so much that your parents passed down a skin color, and more that you inherited an ideology and values as you formed in the womb.

None of that is bad, but you can understand how Greens wouldn't want to give Whites power or the ability to influence the direction the society goes, and would want to exclude them from a communal mindspace.

I'm not saying that any of this is forced by canon. I'm simply saying that the canon version of Martians doesn't really explain it, and saying "There's no explanation; they're just really dumb. Good thing the SI is there to tell them they're dumb!" is uninteresting to me.

Eh, considering how little we know about YJ Martian history, I'm dubious about our ability to make any statements about the Whites' place in society back 10,000 or 20,000 years ago.

 

I'm just saying - if, historically, the Whites were a warrior caste, it's unlikely that they would have been removed from that role. And if this racism isn't a new thing, then there's no way that the Martian leaders would have put the ones that they hated in a position of power.

But you'r right, we just don't know enough about them in the YJ universe.

 

We don't need to speculate.

In this fic we know the Guardians changed the Martians and installed empathy and better comportment on all of the sub types, but that reds are the ones in with the effects were reduced IE reds got less empathy than the others. Then Karman decided to teach reds magic and their intrinsic advantages of their class are reinforced with the knowledge of magic.

Greens and Whites then become the underclass under the reds, but of the two colors greens are more predisposed to kiss the dirt the reds walkthrough as reds are the closest to a burning martian, thus Greens become the natural loyal servants while Whites are more like reluctant servants.

 

I think...I think I may finally have it.

Been rereading, and the only surname I can think of that fits Saul Talbot and the Candle clue would be...Taylor. As in Tinker Tailor Candlestick Maker.

Right?

 

No, it's Tallowin.

Someone guessed that several chapters ago and Zoat confirmed it.

 

Well now, that’s what I get for not following along