With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Yeah, though maybe history was different on Earth 16 since they existed, so the whole King Poseidon thing never happened and Zeus was always the head honcho.

The gods in this story don't seem to be as malleable as the gods from the Vertigo comics, so they may not have changed due to the belief of the people changing over time.

But I may be wrong.

Ahh, Dio, you truly are a wild one.

That scene where the king looks at him and the horns show up is low-key terrifying.

 

Huh?

 

Seconded

 

Aqualad's parents. Hopefully the Renegade will be able to convince Black Manta to not be too smug and argumentative with them, since he still considers the Team as his friends.

 

Try less war and more acts of terrorism.

'heavily'

Yeah, I remember that episode where his slaves helped him.

The author of Life Ore Death basically described it as Stockholm Syndrome taken to even more disturbing levels.

You technically didn't escape him.

Actual Grayven did though.

Though you did destroy a piece of the ALE.

Yeah I imagine letting go of the guy that commited multiple crimes and terrorist acts against his people is not making him happy.

Yeah Grayven 'ahhhhh'.

Did you think that working with a supervillain was going to be so easy.

And Manta really has nothing to complain about here.

Zoat seeing as you said this episode was going to be sort of a renegade episode, and judging by the title, are we going to be seeing the POV from the other characters, not just renegade, a paragon supplementary, or an alternate?

 

Thank you, corrected.

 

There is? Haha, good one.

But that link was hilarious. Sadly there are no related links tell us what the animal was.

 

I'm a bit skeptical. Zeus maps rather neatly onto the sky-father archetype common to religions descended from the Proto-Indo-European culture, right down to the name "Zeus" itself. It seems exceptionally unlikely that Poseidon would have ORIGINALLY been the king figure. If he ever held that title, it would have been a fairly short-term Bronze Age thing that rolled back later.

 

He was considered the head honcho during a time where the cthonic gods were considered more important.

Poseidon is also a god of earthquakes, and apparently that qualified him as one and he was the boss.

I don't think Zeus was even mentioned all that much during that time, and that he and Hades may have been seen as the same guy.

 

Agreed, though looking at the Norse Pantheon (particularly Thor, Odin and Tyr) I'd say it's a possibility.

 

And straight into the political fun! Ah, Grayven wastes no time at all, does he? This should be interesting.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Know what? Wait, is Clea dating someone? It's been a while since last we saw her... At any rate, Orin seems to be a little light on the political intrigue side of rulership. I doubt he'd be too interested in espionage. That doesn't rule out his ministers, though...

Maybe he asked Batman or his other sneaky teammates to plant tracking devices while Manta was visiting the surface somewhere...

Eh, he knows you're mostly a good guy. He also knows you hang around Venturia, after all, and while he's no Batman, Orin can draw logical conclusions about Black Manta's apparent change of heart...

Dating Manta? My, my. The Queen likes younger men? Admittedly, most men alive right now are younger than her, so she hasn't a lot of options in that regards.

Ah, yes, the 'civilised' rules of engagement. Not something I expect Clea to respect much. She's an old-fashioned lady... Also, Manta wasn't fighting a war. Wars are fought between nations, and Manta belongs to none.

More likely she'd have had his head removed as soon as possible. Depending on her mood. Then again, it should come down to whether he was paid to do so or not, I would hope.

That's putting it very mildly. To be fair, I don't think you could really put a name to Apokalips beyond Theocracy. After all, the population worship Darkseid as a God, more or less...

...Is that Kirby-tech monolith a computer designed to operate Apokalips as the Elite would? Makes perfect sense, I guess.

A textbook example of it, really. Both the raw dominating charisma and cult of personality. When whole generations of lowlies have known only Darkseid, can you blame them for not considering that there could be any other possibility?

Unless he wants you to. After all, how can he demonstrate his power without examples of foolish rebellion to crush?

Compared to Apokalips, everything else is light and fluffy.

Manta getting his pardon, i take it?

Amusing that Grayven tolerates her acting that way. But then, he is a creature of Acquisition. Let your allies do as they will, and it becomes easier to direct them by waving something they want... Or it's just funny.

Indeed, the amount of text such a pardon might need would probably leave the subjects feeling a little anaemic. As for weapons, I hope Manta isn't wearing his usual helmet. You know, the one with the laser eyes? Would probably seem a bit rude.

Good idea.Last thing you want at this moment is to upset the person pardoning you...

I can already sense him thinking about loopholes... Hopefully he can restrain himself.

And the deal is done, in royal blood. And the new Light has its' asset in the clear...

...As long as Manta doesn't show his face in Atlantis. Still, I'm sure Grayven will be able to keep him busy.

Maybe look into his illegitamate son? Arrange some discreet protection. Orm may be very dead, but there's bound to be someone out there just itching to get their hands on his blood. And I suspect this Earth might have a little more trouble with a Titan running amok.

Pfft. Good luck with that.

...Okay. That was a thing. wonder if that's the seed of an old joke. You know the one. Involving a good man and a goat.

Besides finding somewhere far from Atlantis and getting really, really drunk?

I'll admit, I couldn't remember who that was either, until Ngamer11 pointed it out. Hopefully Grayven can moderate matters for them, prevent any precipitous actions that might get Hyde liquidated...

Onto a Renegade episode we go. I get the feeling there'll be a lot of checking up on things to start with, maybe some League-related stuff if that title means what I think it means. But I could be wrong, and the whole episode is a trip to Equestria (as much as that would have the torches and pitchforks popping up from some of us!)

 

In DC his domain is King of the Gods.

 

Yep, she's dating David Hyde aka Black Manta.

And bad boys apparently.

It seems she doesn't know how much of a bad idea that is.

Yep, he was commiting terrorist actions for a guy who thought making a bunch of racists more organized is a good idea.

You know that could explain why the previous queen chose Orin, a guy that doesn't have much experience with ruling, instead of Orm, who was probably groomed to rule since he was a kid.

Orm has all the ethical and moral principles of a rock.

He may be competent at ruling, but if he thought that his ideas to take the throne from Orin were any good then it's very. very obvious his morality is either dead or begging to be killed.

She probably thought that if he took the throne then there was a big risk of him going the way of his comic book self. Basically becoming a warmongering tyrant.

So she chose someone that wouldn't go that route.

Renegade did mention he lets people have hope so he can crush them.

You deserve a blue ring Chojin my boy.

Actually Oceanus is still imprisoned.

The plan to release him was orchestrated by the Light and Orm, and seeing as renegade was stirring them away from stupid ideas, at least a bit, they didn't bust him out.

I'm thinking we may be seeing the POV of multiple characters in this episode and how they're reacting to things.

 

I find the term "originally" to be kind of a joke when it comes to stuff like this given the sheer amount of time, syncretism, and lack of record keeping involved.

The period in which Poseidon may have been King of the Gods was in Mycenaean Greece(circa roughly 1600-1100 bc), when it seemed like chthonic deities were given more attention and it seemed like The Earth Shaker was Poseidon's most important epithet then.

Zeus existed during that time, his name has been found on Linear B tablets.

Hades, though, wasn't. Demeter and Persephone were which leads some people to believe that Hades is a later god who got stapled onto an older story.

 

Ah yes! Back to best Paul.

 

[citation needed]

 

Links?

 

Here.

He destroyed it in one of the previous chapters with Luna.

 

It was a horse. If you look elsewhere, you can even find pictures of the specific horse.

 

They did keep his son alive so that's something I guess?

 

He would have happily taken Kaldur off their hands. Delightedly, actually.

 

They also raised him to be an upstanding and law abiding person.

Granted the last thing may not sit well with Manta.

And supervillans aren't exactly known for being reasonable when someone takes something they see as theirs.

And they probably didn't want their kid to grow up and be a mercenary supervillain that kills innocent people for a racist terrorist.

 

Ah, cheers. I looked all over the place and couldn't find it. But, damn. How many pints of bourbon would you need to drink before that sounded like a good idea?

 

Firstly: His kid. Calvin ended up doing the job that he wanted to do.
Secondly: Atlantis is in an usually privileged position where military action is concerned, but militaries kill innocent people all the time. The most you can hope for is that they're not deliberately targetting them.
Thirdly: Do you really think that Black Manta has done nothing but hang around Poseidonis for seventeen years?

 

I think Kaldur considers Calvin to be his real dad, even if he's not his biological dad.

And a lot of criminals want to raise their kids, but that doesn't mean they should.

Pretty sure that he was targeting innocent people, given who his employer was.

Oh, I don't doubt he's been doing other things, but I do doubt Kaldur would be pleased by those things and suddenly want to form a bond with his gene-donor.

 

Does that mean I can go back in time and legitimately take George Washington's children?

Because I'll take that trade.

Why?

Orm had actual Atlantean racists to go regular thuggery. The targets we see Black Manta go after are government and military.

Probably not. If Black Manta had raised him, do you think he'd care about the traitor who married his absentee mother?

 

I'm pretty sure they didn't kidnap Kaldur, but just didn't tell him that he existed.

Hell they may not have even been able to contact him even if they wanted to.

Calvin betrayed him so he probably got rid of any ways he can contact him and reveal his location because he was worried the Atlanteans could track him.

He also had him attack Atlantis, and I'm betting he killed a lot of innocents during said attacks.

And I don't see why goverment and military people can't be considered innocent.

Maybe.

Even if Kaldur forms a relationship with Manta I'm pretty sure it will be more like a relationship between a parole officer and a parolee, as in Kaldur trying to make sure he doesn't start doing criminal things again, and not one between a father and son, seeing as his childhood with Calvin and his mother appears to have been very pleasant and he loves them.

 

Because they're actively involved in the state's decision making or actualising process.

 

That still leaves the other people he killed during his attacks.