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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. TheLunarwolf

    TheLunarwolf Making the rounds.

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    Well, the person who wrote the character seems to give a fuck.

    Hence why it's blown up into something that has had Moderator involvement.
     
  2. lancelot

    lancelot Grand High Poobah

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    No mods here and the mods there just told them to cut it the fuck out. Also it's a dead character from a dead story, saying the character is really her is a gods damned joke. She wants to go with that she can show us the bunny ears. Nevermind it's a story that stole most of it's entire concept from Zoat's story and I don't remember Zoat crying about it, so lets just let it die already.
     
  3. Radix

    Radix Not too sore, are you?

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    There is literally a mod a few comments up from you sayi lng they are discussing it.
     
  4. Roquemore

    Roquemore Getting sticky.

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    I'd say the big difference here is that, when a work is commercially or otherwise 'professionally' released (see, for example, author Cory Doctorow releasing various works for free and public use but with clearly indicated licensing and attribution), it's easy for even cursory research to determine which work is the original, and who to attribute anything they like or don't like in a given derivative work.

    When things are purely within the realm of fanfiction, however, this kind of research becomes much more difficult, and Mr Zoat's ambiguous use of a plain link without any other indication of if this is a collaboration or merely a recursive fanfic really doesn't help matters.

    With this in mind, for example, I feel like a simple, clear attribution along the lines of "Character X is based on work Y by author Z. This is a fanfiction use of that work and author Z is not involved in authoring this story." would have resulted in a much more neutral reaction, even without any bothering to get permission.
     
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  5. Doccer

    Doccer I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Huh. My take away was that she lost the sum total of her experience there and whatever godlike being put her there, had stamp a OC personality in the grey matter to keep things going the way it had set things up. She really seemed she was pulling information from her ass to fill out an origin story up until then.
    How did she get the SI knowledge if she really did previously exist?
     
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  6. Coda

    Coda Versed in the lewd.

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    people's (because "people" is already plural)

    Common misconception. He actually does, because his songs -- legally speaking -- aren't parodies. They're covers with comedy lyrics. In order to be legally considered a protected parody, it must be making commentary on the original. If it's just a funny song with lyrics about something else in the world, it's not a fair-use parody.

    (Well. Strictly speaking, he doesn't need permission to write them, but he needs permission to distribute them once they've been written.)

    My reading is that the character is still the author at some level and is still involved in writing the story.
     
  7. hkim

    hkim Know what you're doing yet?

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    Good manners usually aren't needed and usually don't do anything. That's why they're manners and not laws or rules or anything. Agreed we're unlikely to hash it out by arguing though :p
     
  8. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    Which might be a good place to let the arguments go? I know everyone wants to have their say, but at this point, it's the same two or three points being rehashed. Let's leave it to the Mods, Whiteeyes and Mr Zoat to sort out the argument in private and let our discussion turn back to in-universe stuff... Please? :( Before someone says something that gets the thread locked...
     
  9. BartlettMagic

    BartlettMagic peekaboo, you fucks you!

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    oh, oh, i want to be pedantic for a second!

    as an American, Bruce would probably say "programs" rather than "schemes" in this context- while they are technically synonyms in the English language, in America 'scheme' tends to have a negative connotation to it!

    yay, i pretended to be smart on the internet today!
     
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  10. Bramble Thorn

    Bramble Thorn Verified Silhouette

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    Does the Inviolate author have a SB/SV/QQ account and is part of that community?
    People may care more about one than the other as an Ingroup/Outgroup thing.
    And I have no problem at all with him not asking DC. Because I think there is a big difference between in impersonal corporation and an actual person.

    Well you got the Mods talking about you. And nothing bad forum related has ever happened from you doing that in the past...
    Also, just my two cents...

     
  11. topin89

    topin89 Virgin Centrist

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    Thanks. I almost carried this on. I hope it will be resolved peacefully. God, maybe there would be some collaboration now.

    And in story, I hope Paul will see that after eight years if constant multiverse stuff-fixing, he is either not a human at that point or that he became a real jerk to everybody for no good reason. Being tired of multiverse bullshit is not a valid excuse to ignore other people's feelings.

    On the other hand, kinda ironic that while Vanilla did a lot of good staff, it's not like she asked anyone if they wanted renovation, while Paul gave Bullock kinda-sorta control of what to enhance.

    I look forward to how SIs' worldviews will clash. Maybe it wouldn't be as one-sided as most previous lectures. And that alien thing, I guess Paul forgot what Viera looks like, if he knew in the first place.
     
  12. Belenus

    Belenus Versed in the lewd.

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    Am I the only one who's gotten the impression that this crossover is intended to be a learning experience for the Paul in question? Cause I'm getting a "The real treasure was the friends we made along the way" vibe from Paul and Vanilla's interactions.
     
  13. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Well, as much as I'd like to pat myself on the back, unlike with the SV situation...I couldn't have warned you about this one as I have no idea who this other apparent SI is.

    But once a fuss was made....yeah it's gone just as I expected. I wish I could claim amazing predictive abilities, but sadly...it's just that things so very often occur exactly the same way.

    The internet: The place of porn and drama.

    And boy....I've seen a LOT of drama since I first got Dial up. I've been editing on Y!gal when a Supermod nuked the whole god damn thing from the inside, wiping hundreds of thousands of pieces of art and writing, before running off to try and start their own website. All because they got pissed at being overruled.

    I was a part of Nuclear storm for 15 years. Before one day, a group of New people (mostly just one in particular) dropped A Pronoun bomb that ended the entire thing. Some of my old friends I managed to find....some I never have seen again.

    I kinda feel like Roy Batty at the end of Blade runner. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe." Indeed....A gay teen with the internet in the late 90's into the 2000s? I have seen some fucking drama.

    Saddest thing here? Last two parts are just flavored filler. Nothing to even care about.

    But its the internet....and if its not porn....then its drama.
     
  14. Jonn Wolfe

    Jonn Wolfe (Verified Sarcastic) (Not a Wolf)

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    That is sadly and extremely accurate.
     
  15. Zig

    Zig Not too sore, are you?

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    Given how Vanilla is, that does not seem likely. "Joy" can be found in many places, and she finds joy in trolling the shit out of people.
     
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  16. Threadmarks: Negetiations (part 6)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    7th August 2012
    20:20 GMT


    "'Something given has no value'."

    I frown, then exhale sharply as we're led towards the bridge.

    "You have a power ring. Don’t be lazy and watch the film version."

    "The book version doesn't summarise the idea so well."

    "It's not that complicated an idea. The way I value things has changed a lot since I got my ring, too. I only got into fighting because I realised how dangerous the universe is and wanted to be able to maximise my advantages. Which sounds rational, until you realise that I've put myself in more danger trying to learn how to do that."

    "And if that was your real motivation, you should have stopped the moment you realised that was what was happening."

    "If it stayed my real motivation, I should have stopped the moment I realised that was what was happening. But by then I had friends in that subculture. And I had-." I frown. "Did I ever talk to you about the Crime Bible?"

    "No." Her eyes flash and she nods. "Greed. The fable of the First's entry into Har-Mammon."

    "The other way of looking at it. In your former life you'd have been happy with the metaphorical cup of water. But now…"

    "So what exactly is my Har-Mammon?"

    "No idea. And that's the problem restated. The comparison just struck me as amusing. What are people telling you that you can't have?"

    "Nothing. … Oh. That's the problem, isn't it?"

    "Maybe." The bridge on this ship doesn't have doors, but our escort turns aside as we walk through the noise-cancelling field across the entry. "Maybe. Captain!"

    "My lord Illustres!" The richly-dressed merchant smiles and nods. "How have you enjoyed the journey?"

    "Pleasant enough." I shrug. "I'm not used to travelling by ship. I'm afraid that I have little to compare it to."

    "I suppose that a power ring does have that utility. And you, my lady?"

    Lantern Drusa smiles politely.

    "It's the nicest cargo ship I've ever travelled upon. It's a shame the Illustres kept me too busy to get a proper tour."

    "Perhaps on the way back. We're-."

    A chime sounds, and the crew focus on their stations. We're back in real space. I look through the hull, trying to spot the rest of the fleet: the cargo barges and escort frigates. Yes, there they are, exactly where they should be. The form of faster than light travel our hosts use makes it a little tricky to keep in contact with other ships, though on the plus side it's a little faster at moving high mass objects than what the L.E.G.I.O.N. fleet uses.

    "We're in normal space…" The captain looks around and gets a nod from the comms officer. "And so is everyone else."

    "Good show. What's the protocol for requesting a pilot?"

    "Usually, they contact us when we get a little closer. They're the ones who are more heavily occupied, after all. I assume that you want to make official contact with the government of Yuna?"

    "Well… Let them know I'm here, anyway. It's not as if we're in a rush. What was it, four days if they've got a pilot already on station?"

    "Pilots, my lord. One per ship."

    Drusa frowns. "How do they make sure that no one overrides them?"

    "A combination of interdiction fields and the enmity of every other ship in the system." The captain makes a gesture of dismissal. "We're required to submit the general design of our control systems ahead of time, and they use a form of memory implant that allows the pilots to be trained extremely quickly. But they know perfectly well that if any one ship wanted to circumvent their controls, it could do so. For a few moments, at least."

    "Will there be a customs inspection?"

    "They'll want to confirm that our stated cargo matches what's actually in our hold. There are very few goods absolutely prohibited in Yuna, but there are certain things that can't be traded on the surface of the planet. There's little point bringing refined metals onto a planet if the buyer is going to need to drag it back out of the gravity well. And they aren't keen on weapons or highly destructive substances threatening their population centres."

    "Are slaves traded here?"

    He looks slightly awkward for a moment.

    "Technically, no. Employment contracts can be traded, though for the most part that's for high status individuals who are well compensated. Most of the worlds in this region of space have little interest in purchasing unskilled labourers."

    "And in reality?"

    "There's probably some. It's not a major industry though; that I can tell you for certain."

    Not as if it would really be appropriate for me to try doing anything about it anyway. Not until we've finished our war with the Reach. But it's nice to have a reminder that I'll always have something to do somewhere. What was the Warhammer 40,000 quote? 'For those who seek perfection there is no rest this side of the grave'? Something like that.

    "Why are you smiling?"

    "I just had my fear of unemployment quashed." I can tell from the expression on Lantern Drusa's face that she doesn't understand. "My greatest desire is to effect positive change in the universe. If everything was perfect then I'd have nothing to do; I'd be in your position."

    "What does your perfection look like?"

    "I'm not exactly sure. I was exposed to a Black Mercy once, and that showed me-."

    The comms officer signals the captain again, who makes a gesture of agreement. A moment later the captain's screen lights up with the face of a gyuanite, the local dominant sophont. A non-standard humanoid race, they have deep blue skin and an elongated head and body. This one has.. some sort of mouth and eye guards, though I suppose they could be either purely functional or purely decorative.

    "Captain. Welcome back to Yuna."

    "Thank you, system controller. I would like to make my approach as soon as possible."

    "Quite understandable. I can dispatch a customs detail to you at once. Please have your full manifest up to date for their arrival."

    "Of course."

    The system controller presses some buttons off screen.

    "I'm afraid that there won't be enough pilots for your entire fleet for half a local day, but I can dispatch enough for your own ship and one escort immediately. Would that be acceptable?"

    "Certainly."

    "Then I will arrange it at once. Are there any other matters which you wish to bring to my attention?"

    "One.. other matter. I'm transporting a diplomat from Maltus."

    "Maltus?"

    The captain motions to me, and I step into range of his console's camera.

    "Pleased to meet you. I'm the Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps, and I would like to meet with a representative of your government at their earliest convenience."

    The system controller's skin turns mildly green.

    "I will refer that upwards at once. Excuse me."

    The screen deactivates.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2021
  17. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    'goods'

    A poly relationship.
     
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  18. Radiant Knight

    Radiant Knight Phoenix Fire

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    Well I guess that's that for the interlude. Back to your regularly scheduled avarice enlightening- and I see the traffic controller knows better than to make a snap judgment on a foreign dignitary. Booting it upstairs is the right call, not that his superiors will appreciate it when it lands on their desks :p
     
  19. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    Oh, it has value. Not always to the person receiving it, though. To the person giving, it can be everything. And all too often, a situation like that results in more conflict than it was intended to resolve...

    Nevertheless, it behoves you to study the whole of the concept, not just its summary. Sometimes that summary can miss a subtext in the full work.

    Hardly. Hero work has an almost addictive quality to it, even with powers that aren't making you want to use them. After all: Doing good feels good.

    Oh, she's a quick one. Evidently the time alone with the Illustres has been well spent learning.

    ;) Well, that's for you to work out, isn't it?

    Exactly. What do you want, when you can have anything? In the end you face Choice Paralysis. And that can cripple an Orange Lantern... Or turn them into Larfleeze.

    3 days of doing little but study. Hardly the most entertaining trip, I suppose.

    Now, her time would have been well spent. Even a few hours with OL can give a Lantern new insights.

    And doesn't that sound like it could be taken out of context. Oh, myyy...[/takei]

    More energy-efficient, but less tactics-friendly, eh? I'm guessing courses are very precisely plotted, when you may not be aware of the ships around you...

    Would be a good start for a diplomatic tour. Though getting started this far out makes it easier for your hosts to arrange for your stay to be harmless...

    Overriding the FTL interdiction? A sensible concern. Don't want someone hacking your nav-computer and making it decide a trip right through the sun is just fine.

    Shortly before being blown into very small pieces by the system's defenses, eh? I expect there's patrolling flotillas of light cruisers ready to jump on unauthorised traffic...

    Definitely sensible. Unless your technology is so advanced that Gravity is a non-concern (and by that grade you wouldn't be trading for materials, you'd simply create them ex nihilo,) it's clearly easier to keep anything not intended for surface arrival well outside the planet's orbit. Presumably it's only passing through the system to allow for eyeball-mark-one checks that the shipments contain what they say they contain.

    Well, that's a likely 'maybe...'

    I expect it's limited to more exotic services... Things synthetic substitutes just aren't as enjoyable for.

    Indeed. Life being life, you'll always find someone being stupid somewhere in need of correction.

    We didn't see much of it, but it seemed very decadent.

    Well, at least we have a name for the locals. Gyuanite, eh? Wonder how their voices sound...

    And no interdicted FTL for them, I bet. Unless they're stationed on a planetoid or space-station nearby the arrival vectors.

    The fact that it separates the fleet leader from the rest of his flotilla being an incidental bonus, I guess. After all, he's bound to have a lot of paperwork to fill out. :p

    And the traffic coordinator immediately realises his day is going to get a lot harder...

    Traffic controller: :confused: *Fuuuuuuck meeee...*

    Yeah, that was about the response I was expecting. At least he can pass the matter upstairs and hope he still has a job in the morning.

    Back to the usual business, then. And OL makes his first personal contact with the Gyuanites. Given that his access will probably be expedited for diplomatic reasons, I assume his and Drusa's trip with the freighter will be ending soon. At least they kep busy on the way in. x3 Wonder how Drusa took to Warhammer...
     
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  20. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
    Thank you, corrected.
    We're all just pretending. You just have to learn to apply it to real life as well.
    I wrote a version of my SI who became a sociopathic mind-controller, and it's not like the main version is exactly nice. If someone wrote a story like that and I heard about it I'd probably read... At least the first bit, to see if it was any good. If it wasn't I'd just ignore it on the grounds that it really doesn't affect me.

    If while reading it I saw people having a problem with it, I'd encourage them to see it in its true perspective:

    [​IMG]
    Thank you, corrected.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  21. inck

    inck Getting out there.

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    Would love to see some chapters from the point of view of some members of the orange lantern corps.
    Like maybe those light priests or whatever they're called.
    The ones who carried around Paul's book as if it's the bible.
    Or maybe Sodam Yat. Or perhaps a new recruit being recruited or going through basic training on Maltus.
     
  22. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    If you mean insights into how to be a better Lantern, then yes, but it can also give them insights into what a walking headache Paul is.

    Damn it Takei!

    Unless they can't manufacture things from nothing since they need some unique and rare energy source.

    Idiocy, a universal concept.
     
  23. Old Knife

    Old Knife Not too sore, are you?

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  24. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Nope, he didn't.

    There was actually a lot of arguing about that before this chapter.
     
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  25. Old Knife

    Old Knife Not too sore, are you?

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    I missed the discussion It seems

    Ah well. No problem
     
  26. w34v3r

    w34v3r Versed in the lewd.

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    Hmmmmm blue skin, turning green, ok so that's probably either a yellow fluid just beneath the skin, or some sort of chromatophore equivalent.

    If the planet is covered by predominantly green vegetation it might be a sort automatic camouflage, probably chromatophore in that case.

    Hopefully Paul manages to piss one off, I have theories that need testing.
     
  27. Prince Charon

    Prince Charon Just zis guy, you know?

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    Thank you, it's good to know that I was close enough to accurately describing your reaction to that sort of thing. Also, thank you for the image, I'm pretty sure that I've never seen a 'tempest in a teacup' illustrated like that.
     
  28. Senevri

    Senevri Not too sore, are you?

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    A nudge's as good as a wink, if you know what I mean. Eh? Eh?
     
  29. SaltyWaffles

    SaltyWaffles I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    "Something given has no value" is either very poorly worded, or it's the bankrupt ideal of someone whose worldview was shaped by being very successful in his life, probably from a position of privilege.

    Does a slave feel like their freedom has no value when they didn't singlehandedly overthrow the entire society that allowed the system of slavery to exist in the first place? Does a homeless person feel like a home given to them has no value if they didn't pay for it themselves? Does someone denied the right to vote because of the color of their skin or their sex feel like being given the right to vote is meaningless, if not won personally? Does a person's legal protection from cruel and unusual punishment feel meaningless to a person sentenced to a humane punishment because they did not personally force the state to not sentence them in such a way?

    Does a billionaire feel like their vast wealth has no value if they simply inherited the fortune? Does a doctor feel like their doctorate has no value because their parents paid for all of the tuition?

    Being in a society means that many things are given. Indeed, any society that advances past the most basic of functionality can only operate on the principle of giving at least some of its members enough things that each new generation does not start from scratch.

    The very society shown in Starship Troopers shows how bankrupt a society that actually believes in the idea that "something given has no value" really is: its government engineers a false-flag operation that massacres an entire major city's worth of people on Earth, then uses it as justification to engage in a ruthless, genocidal war of conquest (under the guise of a war of "vengeance") against a species that has done humanity no harm and is not a threat. Humanity's soldiers are treated as expendable tools; children are sent to fight hordes of terrifying giant bugs that swarm and viscerally tear them apart, and entire fleets and armies are sent into extreme danger with no appreciation for the potential threats they might face or ways in which their losses might be reduced. Propaganda is forced down the throats of everyone from soldiers to young children; if there are any serious forces of dissent against such blatant warmongering and obviously false justifications for war, there is never any mention of them, even after the war runs into disasters.

    It is a society that is both unenlightened and seeks no enlightenment. It is a society moved by greed--not enlightened greed, but shameless, reckless greed.

    It is true that some people, under some circumstances, want to earn certain things for themselves (and fairly, by whatever standards they apply), and will feel like it has little or no value otherwise. However, it is also true that some of those cases are people speaking from a position of privilege or luxury.

    So a more accurate, and far more applicable concept would be: "Sometimes, being given what you wanted without feeling like you truly earned it yourself renders it meaningless."
     
  30. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Versed in the lewd.

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    I'm beginning to wonder how Drusa uses her ring at all
     
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