With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Vaermina]

I wanna say that the WoZ was that whatever event caused Ted's death, and Jaime's coming upon the Scarab was butterflied out of existence by the SI's actions.

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The Book of Destiny isn't usually so easily thwarted.

 

[Chaoswind]

I wanna say that the WoZ was that whatever event caused Ted's death, and Jaime's coming upon the Scarab was butterflied out of existence by the SI's actions.

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Technically most of the chain of events necessary to justify it happened when the Angels attacked Ted Kord industries as punishment for helping Paul, and Jaime being on site during the attack is also justified by the protests being done by Christians (Jaime and his mom?) before the angels destroyed the place.

So the Scarab being in the wild is justified, at the same time Zoat has gone out of its way to mention scarabs specially recon and deep infiltration models (like blue and green beetle) have the ability to avoid detection from ring scans with their stealth mode, so that justifies Khaji da not being found by Paul earlier...even more so when we know Khaji da has been modified by Isis magic.

So the justification for Jaime getting the scarab do exist if Mr Zoat wants to go for it, and considering how many fans Khaji da/Jaime has as one of the best characters from season two of the original show, he may go for it... But is still his choice.

Green beetle is probably also active at this point, abusing it's stealth mode to gather information on earth.

Anyways, Khaji da being included in the fic would be sweet, but not if it's going to be included for a single episode to have said episode resolution ending with its destruction... Khaji da changing Paul opinion on scarabs to the point he would label them as slaves of the reach instead of being particularly clever equipment would be ideal in my book

 

[Stsword]

Even if Jaime doesn't get a scarab doesn't mean he can't be included in this fic.

Maybe he'll visit Metropolis and get possessed by the Blackrock symbiote.

Maybe a meteorite lands in his backyard and be becomes a Guyv...Zuggernaut.

Or get the Minion suit.

Or thanks to interdimensional shenanigans he gets a necrofloral symbiote.

Or gets the Khepri scarab.

There are plenty of macguffins to go around.

 

[Chatios]

Unlike Canon, Paul has zero reason not to annihilate the Reach if they show up on Earth. It's not like anyone on Earth could do anything about it if he showed up with a Nemo Fleet, or the Ophidian.

 

[Prince Charon]

"No. Guardian Meadlux was the designer. The project was suspended after his death, but his prototypes were preserved."

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So, Meadlux really is a guardian here, much the way Kaylark really did go nuts?

 

[Mr Zoat]

12th August 2012
21:51 GMT

"Thank you both for agreeing to this."

The HCO woman is genuinely upbeat about this. I… I assumed that Yuna government officials are better informed than their citizenry. They… They must be better motivated. Surely? But as I sit in another conference room opposite the Negotiator and a couple of his aides, she appears to be completely genuine.

How can anyone possibly-?

I mean. Really?

"I only wish that something like this could have happened sooner."

The Negotiator looks at me like I just farted in the lift.

"It has been centuries since the Reach has waged an aggressive war, and we would have much preferred to-."

"It's the way you say it-" I grin. "-with a straight face. "

HCO raises her right hand with a nervous smile on her face.

"Please let the Amb-"

"Negotiator."

"-assador finish his opening remarks."

I shrug, then mime zipping my lips. The Negotiator waits a moment just to be sure.

"We would have much preferred to discuss any concerns our neighbours had with our expansion without resorting to force. The Illustres has personally intervened…"

I.. just tune him out. The locals I sort of understand. They clearly don't know why we hate the Reach. If it were a normal trade or territorial dispute, this sort of thing would genuinely be helpful. But who exactly is the Negotiator addressing here? There's no way he can expect to convince me, we've made sure that everyone in N.E.M.O. space is fully aware of what the Reach do, and he hardly needs to convince his fellow Reachians.

So… Is the posturing just automatic? Have I been wrong in assuming that they don't use neural reprofiling on themselves? Is he incapable of not saying this nonsense, no matter how pointless it is?

"…our hosts who have put us in this position."

The Negotiator smiles at HCO, who smiles politely back.

"Thank you-. Negotiator?"

"Negotiator is my official title within the civil service of the Reach, but I'm acting as an ambassador. Really, either is appropriate."

"Well, thank you. Illustres? Do you have something you want to say?"

I shake my head.

"I really don't know what to say. That speech gives me the impression that you genuinely don't know why we formed N.E.M.O., which is… Possible. Your superiors might have kept you in the dark intentionally. I'd.. be surprised, but it's not impossible. But if you do know, you must know that I know, so I have no idea who you think was going to care about any of what you just said."

He doesn't appear moved.

"But okay." I shrug. "Since your war with the Green Lantern Corps, the Reach has sworn off violent conquest. Or, rather, open acquisitive warfare. However, there's a difference between that and actually being peaceful."

I take a hologram projector out of subspace and put it on the table in front of me. A series of images flicker, then expand to fill my side of the room. Dozens of faces, all from different species.

"Maybe you don't recognise all of these. They're intelligent species whose territory was annexed by the Reach and who now either don't exist at all or hang on only in Controller-run refugee camps. Now, one might just have been evil and two… Well, accidents happen when you fiddle around with a biosphere. But this…"

I make a point of looking around at the images.

"This is an existential threat to every one of your surviving neighbours. And so, N.E.M.O., because no one wants to be added to this list. Because while you don't break the agreement you have with the Guardians, you're quite happy to alter the biology of your neighbours with chemistry, biotechnology and cybernetics until they're near-mindless thralls. And you don't even care enough about their service to keep them around for more than a couple of generations afterward. That's not just evil, that's lazy."

"N.E.M.O. initiated the first fleet-to-fleet engagement of the war. Actually, the first Reach fleet to be destroyed was actually destroyed by Grayven but I'm not trying to pass on blame there; we'd totally have done it if we'd jumped in-system a little closer. But the Reach had been covertly attacking worlds in what is now N.E.M.O. for as long as they'd been in contact with them. And… You know that, and you know that I know that. So if this meeting is actually going to get anywhere… Please, stop pretending. It's not even annoying, really. It's just stupid. This isn't a court. There's no neutral jury. There's no unconvinced party to impress. It's a mediation for two peoples who hate each other to maybe find an agreement they could accept."

"If you're going to engage in baseless slander-."

"Pointless."

I'm careful to let my eyes flare on that one. It doesn't really mean anything with me, but with a normal Orange Lantern it would indicate that they're about to go postal.

"Very well. I assume that you have demands. What are they?"

"The Reach will contract its territory: every world that has at least one surviving inhabitant will be released to them. The Reach will share all biological data on those species to allow them to repopulate. The Reach will contract its fleet to one tenth of its current size. The Reach will foreswear the use of and abandon all research into mental and social control technologies. You can have billboard adverts, that's it. The Reach will either hand over or execute individuals who were primarily responsible for known and unknown genocides, and provide data that allows for the identification of unknown individuals who were primarily responsible for known and unknown genocides."

"Execute or-? What would you do with them?"

"Assimilate them. Turn them into constructs. I'm allowing that as an option in case you'd prefer to be able to claim that it wasn't you who killed them."

"Ah." He nods. "How generous."

"In return, N.E.M.O. will offer a non-aggression pact and a free trade agreement, including free passage through N.E.M.O territory for any minimally armed civilian merchantman."

HCO perks up slightly. "You're inviting them to trade with you?"

"We don't have any objection to Reach business, just Reach evil. I imagine that continuing to allow them access to goods and services will make the transition easier on their end. We will also allow Reach citizens to apply to join the L.E.G.I.O.N., the Darkstars and the Orange Lantern Corps, under the same terms as N.E.M.O. citizens."

"You intend to annex us."

"But at least we're not going to murder your entire population." I lean back slightly. "So what do you want?"

"An immediate ceasefire, the abolition of your openly hostile military alliance and compensation for the losses we have already incurred due to your unwarranted and unprovoked aggression."

"No, no and no. Anything else?"

"In-."

"Anything sensible?"

 

[Idkusername]

OL is just so done with their shit. I love it.

 

[Darko]

That's not just evil, that's lazy."

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And if Paul hates anything more than evil then it's inefficiency.

So if this is meeting is actually going to get

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Remove one 'is'

 

[DrThoth]

How public is that stunt the other Negotiator pulled with threatening the unborn of an entire species? Leaking that news to Yuna might be something to consider, though centuries of neutrality probably has a lot of inertia.

 

[Old Knife]

Its wonderful. The Negotiator can't even process that they're losing the war and there's nothing they can do about it. BWahahahahaahaha.

Wonder if it has a non-two faced politician mode.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Remove one 'is'

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

12th August 2012
21:51 GMT

"Thank you both for agreeing to this."

The HCO woman is genuinely upbeat about this. I… I assumed that Yuna government officials are better informed that their citizenry. They… They must be better motivated. Surely? But as I sit in another conference room opposite the Negotiator and a couple of his aides, she appears to be completely genuine.

Click to shrink...

Who knows, perhaps she genuinely, naively, believes that this can be settled by talking. But, as we know, it can't be that simple. The Reach, as a whole polity, has too much blood on their collective hands. Any race that's had dealings with them learns this all too quickly.. if they survive.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

How can anyone possibly-?

I mean. Really?

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Some people are capable of fooling themselves into believing anything.

"I only wish that something like this could have happened sooner."

The Negotiator looks at me like I just farted in the lift.

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Heck, for all you know, something about human physiology does offend them mortally. Like an extreme example of the Uncanny Valley effect.

"It has been centuries since the Reach has waged an aggressive war, and we would have much preferred to-."

"It's the way you say it-" I grin. "-with a straight face. "

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Indeed. Perhaps he isn't aware of the truth, and truly thinks that all those races they wiped out chose to become partners willingly, then suffered mysterious extinctions...

HCO raises her right hand with a nervous smile on her face.

"Please let the Amb-"

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Well, to be fair...

"Negotiator."

"-assador finish his opening remarks."

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...the Negotiator does meet the textbook definition of 'ambassador'...

I shrug, then mime zipping my lips. The Negotiator waits a moment just to be sure.

"We would have much preferred to discuss any concerns our neighbours had with our expansion without resorting to force. The Illustres has personally intervened…"

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No, you mean you'd rather have had a chance to brainwash them into friendliness...

I.. just tune him out. The locals I sort of understand. They clearly don't know why we hate the Reach. If it were a normal trade or territorial dispute, this sort of thing would genuinely be helpful. But who exactly is the Negotiator addressing here? There's no way he can expect to convince me, we've made sure that everyone in N.E.M.O. space is fully aware of what the Reach do, and he hardly needs to convince his fellow Reachians.

Click to shrink...

Maybe he's just hopelessly optimistic himself? Or playing the victim for the gyuanites?

So… Is the posturing just automatic? Have I been wrong in assuming that they don't use neural reprofiling on themselves? Is he incapable of not saying this nonsense, no matter how pointless it is?

"…our hosts who have put us in this position."

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Amazing that he could talk for so long and say nothing.

The Negotiator smiles at HCO, who smiles politely back.

"Thank you-. Negotiator?"

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Heh, OL's got her doing it now.

"Negotiator is my official title within the civil service of the Reach, but I'm acting as an ambassador. Really, either is appropriate."

"Well, thank you. Illustres? Do you have something you want to say?"

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...Once the stench of bullshit clears from the room, yes.

I shake my head.

"I really don't know what to say. That speech gives me the impression that you genuinely don't know why we formed N.E.M.O., which is… Possible. Your superiors might have kept you in the dark intentionally. I'd.. be surprised, but it's not impossible. But if you do know, you must know that I know, so I have no idea who you think was going to care about any of what you just said."

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True, for all anyone knows, the general Reach populace really does get the mushroom treatment. Perhaps only the special troops who actually go and do the crap that N.E.M.O. is prosecuting the Empire for are aware of the real deal...

He doesn't appear moved.

"But okay." I shrug. "Since your war with the Green Lantern Corps, the Reach has sworn off violent conquest. Or, rather, open acquisitive warfare. However, there's a difference between that and actually being peaceful."

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...Though I would find it hard to believe that no-one ever gets curious about things amongst the Reach.

I take a hologram projector out of subspace and put it on the table in front of me. A series of images flicker, then expand to fill my side of the room. Dozens of faces, all from different species.

"Maybe you don't recognise all of these. They're intelligent species whose territory was annexed by the Reach and who now either don't exist at all or hang on only in Controller-run refugee camps. Now, one might just have been evil and two… Well, accidents happen when you fiddle around with a biosphere. But this…"

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Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. You can fill in the rest.

I make a point of looking around at the images.

"This is an existential threat to every one of your surviving neighbours. And so, N.E.M.O., because no one wants to be added to this list. Because while you don't break the agreement you have with the Guardians, you're quite happy to alter the biology of your neighbours with chemistry, biotechnology and cybernetics until they're near-mindless thralls. And you don't even care enough about their service to keep them around for more than a couple of generations afterward. That's not just evil, that's lazy."

Click to shrink...

"And one thing I hate... is laziness." Yep, that would just piss Pavlos here right the hell off.

"N.E.M.O. initiated the first fleet-to-fleet engagement of the war. Actually, the first Reach fleet to be destroyed was actually destroyed by Grayven but I'm not trying to pass on blame there; we'd totally have done it if we'd jumped in-system a little closer. But the Reach had been covertly attacking worlds in what is now N.E.M.O. for as long as they'd been in contact with them. And… You know that, and you know that I know that. So if this is meeting is actually going to get anywhere… Please, stop pretending. It's not even annoying, really. It's just stupid. This isn't a court. There's no neutral jury. There's no unconvinced party to impress. It's a mediation for two peoples who hate each other to maybe find an agreement they could accept."

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And at this point, there's only one real condition N.E.M.O. would accept from the Reach: Total and utter surrender.

"If you're going to engage in baseless slander-."

"Pointless."

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Besides, there's nothing baseless about it. Every one of the surviving species has a lot to say about the Reach. Lots of anger, to be sure.

I'm careful to let my eyes flare on that one. It doesn't really mean anything with me, but with a normal Orange Lantern it would indicate that they're about to go postal.

"Very well. I assume that you have demands. What are they?"

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Smart man.

"The Reach will contract it's territory: every world that has at least one surviving inhabitant will be released to them. The Reach will share all biological data on those species to allow them to repopulate. The Reach will contract its fleet to one tenth of its current size. The Reach will foreswear the use of and abandon all research into mental and social control technologies. You can have billboard adverts, that's it. The Reach will either hand over or execute individual who were primarily responsible for known and unknown genocides, and provide data that allows for the identification of unknown individuals who were primarily responsible for known and unknown genocides."

Click to shrink...

In other words: Stop. Your. Bullshit.

"Execute or-? What would you do with them?"

"Assimilate them. Turn them into constructs. I'm allowing that as an option in case you'd prefer to be able to claim that it wasn't you who killed them."

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At least then they can make themselves useful.

"Ah." He nods. "How generous."

"In return, N.E.M.O. will offer a non-aggression pact and a free trade agreement, including free passage through N.E.M.O territory for any minimally armed civilian merchantman."

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Though unspoken is the likelihood of Orange Lanterns escorts and detailed scans being made.

HCO perks up slightly. "You're inviting them to trade with you?"

"We don't have any objection to Reach business, just Reach evil. I imagine that continuing to allow them access to goods and services will make the transition easier on their end. We will also allow Reach citizens to apply to join the L.E.G.I.O.N., the Darkstars and the Orange Lantern Corps, under the same terms as N.E.M.O. citizens."

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Though only after a long psychological screening process, I would hope...

"You intend to annex us."

"But at least we're not going to murder your entire population." I lean back slightly. "So what do you want?"

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After all, all that destruction would be wasteful. And OL has made his stance on that clear enough by now.

"An immediate ceasefire, the abolition of your openly hostile military alliance and compensation for the losses we have already incurred due to your unwarranted and unprovoked aggression."

"No, no and no. Anything else?"

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Nice joke, Negotiator. A pity no-one's laughing.

"In-."

"Anything sensible?"

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...Well, that was quick. Hopefully the gyuanites present are getting a good idea of just what sort of people the Reach are...

So, that went well... No-one's shooting. Though I'm betting this is part of what will lead to that prediction of OL's future statement to a Reach negotiator on Earth... Certainly, I suspect other future encounters with Negotiators will generally end poorly. And with any luck, the gyuanites will want to get some more info on these 'dead' races OL mentioned. Just in case.

---

The Reach will either hand over or execute individual who...

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The Reach will either hand over or execute individuals who... (or 'any individual')

 

[doug89]

Has there been a side story with a Paul in the DCEU? I think that would be interesting.

 

[Darko]

the Negotiator does meet the textbook definition of 'ambassador'...

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Paul is extremely pedantic.

Amazing that he could talk for so long and say nothing.

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He's a politician.

That's sorta a job requirement.

Once the stench of bullshit clears from the room, yes.

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A difficult thing to do.

Though I would find it hard to believe that no-one ever gets curious about things amongst the Reach.

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Unless they really do mind whammy their own citizens.

In other words: Stop. Your. Bullshit

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To be fair to him, bullshitting is a central part of a politicians character, so just changing it right there is probably extremely difficult.

 

[Handlewithcare]

It's pretty obvious this theater is for the Yuna.

PR management is after all a form of mind control as well.

 

[Sockmonkey]

Reach genetic code doesn't go AGCTTGCCGTATATTGGCTGCACCGGT, it goes BSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBS.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Maybe he's just hopelessly optimistic himself? Or playing the victim for the Gyuanites?
...Well, that was quick. Hopefully the Gyuanites present are getting a good idea of just what sort of people the Reach are...
So, that went well... No-one's shooting. Though I'm betting this is part of what will lead to that prediction of OL's future statement to a Reach negotiator on Earth... Certainly, I suspect other future encounters with Negotiators will generally end poorly. And with any luck, the Gyuanites will want to get some more info on these 'dead' races OL mentioned. Just in case.

Click to shrink...

That should be 'gyuanites'.

The Reach will either hand over or execute individuals who... (or 'any individual')

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Thank you, corrected.

Has there been a side story with a Paul in the DCEU? I think that would be interesting.

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Which one is that? There's a version on Earth 12, which is Batman: the Animated Series, Superman: the Animated Series, Justice League Animated/Unlimited, Static Shick and Batman of the Future.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

That should be 'gyuanites'.

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...Thank you, corrected... Force of habit to capitalise species and polity interchangeably...

Which one is that? There's a version on Earth 12, which is Batman: the Animated Series, Superman: the Animated Series, Justice League Animated/Unlimited, Static Shick and Batman of the Future.

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'DCEU' refers to the live-action film franchise that started with 'Man of Steel'. Though, honestly, I hope any SI in that universe would either try to bring some sensibility, rationality and common sense to the stupid super-punching fights, or simply wash his hands of Earth entirely...

 

[doug89]

Which one is that? There's a version on Earth 12, which is Batman: the Animated Series, Superman: the Animated Series, Justice League Animated/Unlimited, Static Shick and Batman of the Future.

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The Warner Brothers film franchise, the DC Extended Universe.

 

[Mr Zoat]

...Thank you, corrected... Force of habit to capitalise species and polity interchangeably...

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Ah, the Yunian gyuanites are giving you trouble?

'DCEU' refers to the live-action film franchise that started with 'Man of Steel'. Though, honestly, I hope any SI in that universe would either try to bring some sensibility, rationality and common sense to the stupid super-punching fights, or simply wash his hands of Earth entirely...

Click to shrink...

I've got a few bits written where the Renegade replaces Steppenwolf. Thing is, most films in the setting are bad. I don't really want to write that.

I might like to rewrite Wonder Woman as a Lovecraftian horror, but there wouldn't be an SI in it.

 

[Vaermina]

12th August 2012
21:51 GMT

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It's called political theater to convince a third party Paul... And you just failed at it big time...

 

[w34v3r]

Maybe, but is that a problem? This polity doesn't seem to have any direct teeth, and are in the position where they don't really benefit by backing either horse as long as they're dead set on killing each other. They benefit most from peace, not from backing a winning faction.

Anyway, I wonder what the aliens think of N.E.M.O.? And whether the greater galaxy is familiar with the concept of Acronyms?

 

[Ngamer11]

It's called political theater to convince a third party Paul... And you just failed at it big time...

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I think it's more that he doesn't care. I'm just waiting for the ring plot to start.

 

[Agumentic]

Its wonderful. The Negotiator can't even process that they're losing the war and there's nothing they can do about it. BWahahahahaahaha.

Wonder if it has a non-two faced politician mode.

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Well, they lost a few battles on the outskirts of their empire. Hardly anyone would jump from that to "we're losing the war".

 

[Stsword]

Well, they lost a few battles on the outskirts of their empire. Hardly anyone would jump from that to "we're losing the war".

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Especially since Paul thinks the war might continue for another decade.

Obviously the losses weren't that significant.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Especially since Paul thinks the war might continue for another decade.

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No, the SI thinks that the fight for the periphery might continue for another decade. Then they'd have to press on into Reach-inhabited space.

 

[Ngamer11]

Mr Zoat, I was just rereading parts of the story, and it got me wondering. What's Firebrand been doing lately besides spending time with her wife and stepson? Is she active as a superhero? If yes, is she ever going to reconsider the offer to join the Justice League?

Separate question, how is Rick Grayson? Last I remember seeing him was when Paul brought Robin a birthday present. I hope he still doesn't need a cane to get around.

 

[Silveraith]

are better informed that their citizenry.

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Than.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Mr Zoat, I was just rereading parts of the story, and it got me wondering. What's Firebrand been doing lately besides spending time with her wife and stepson?

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Volunteer work in Bialya.

Is she active as a superhero?

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Yes. Bialya is still fairly lawless.

If yes, is she ever going to reconsider the offer to join the Justice League?

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Not at this time.

Separate question, how is Rick Grayson?

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Doing fairly well. He's working as a gymnastics instructor, and is considering training as a school gym teacher.

Last I remember seeing him was when Paul brought Robin a birthday present. I hope he still doesn't need a cane to get around.

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No, he's recovered full mobility.

 

[Bolo]

I think I'm missing something. Does the Reach still think Paul is dead? Is the fake cover still going on for the big surprise later or was that dropped and I missed it?