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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Versed in the lewd.

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    Is Paul getting a new arch-nemesis?

    Will there be grandiouse speeches to convince the other of joining their side?

    Will there be cake?

    Tune in next time!
     
  2. Scholar of Time

    Scholar of Time Master of Lurking

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    There's always extra-dead.
     
  3. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
  4. Grimnar

    Grimnar Versed in the lewd.

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    Because they think he can be killed. Due to this, they are putting time and effort into killing him, which isn't going to happen. They don't know this, so they will keep trying, because the expended resources won't match the damage he can do.

    So every year they spend time and effort trying to kill him, is a year less they have to work on exotic techniques to GTFO him out of the picture. Now they know, they can immediately move onto those, and begin looking for specific clues as to how his immortality works.

    Time freezes, bleed fractures to pull him out of the universe, magical weapons (they might not be magic, but they have massive trading routes, and could no doubt get ahold of some).

    What if they figure out what all the clones are for, kill him, then pick up the space they killed him with and move it somewhere else, so his soul goes along for the ride?


    Never correct your enemy when he's making a mistake. A massive strategic trump card, thrown away so OL can feel superior about himself. What a fucking joke.
     
  5. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Plus they may even conclude this on their own.

    They've been fighting an extremely advanced species for who knows how long, and said species can live a long, long time.

    It's not such a stretch for the Controllers to have some tech that can make people immortal, aside from power rings.

    And given what he's survived it's very likely that they may think he's really immortal.

    And how would them knowing about it actually hinder Paul?

    If you're thinking that they may try to start hitting him more and more, hoping that enough damage does the job, then they could have also done this even without getting confirmation that he's immortal.

    After the qwa-matter bomb didn't do the job they'll probably throw everything at him.

    They can also do these things even without knowing he's immortal.

    After several attempts at killing him have failed they may think it can't be done and just try to capture him.

    And again, there's nothing stopping them from concluding that he's immortal by themselves.

    When a guy has survived things that by all accounts can't be survived and he has access to advanced tech, you may just come to the conclusion that he's immortal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  6. DrThoth

    DrThoth I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Can't Paragon just alter everyone's desires to make them stand down or incapacitate them like the Mandated Paul did to Vandal Savage (Edit: he desire-suppresses the aliens in proximity to him at the very start of this update too)? They seem like they'd be useful to study as an example of very long-term Reach modification and indoctrination; sure, he preserved a bunch, and took genetic scans of everyone, but I don't think he really gains much from killing them that he would lose by trying something else (and getting practice at mass desire alteration seems like a good thing).

    I do hope they try the Ranx & Mercy ultra-scanning trick though.

    I'd like to see more Ophidian-Paragon interactions too, I'm kind of missing them. And it might help him to regain his enlightenment the next time he dies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  7. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    Ah, now, see? That's a damn major oversight. I mean, the likelihood of any typical enemy being able to kill a ship's computer like that is vanishingly small, but still, you'd think they'd have considered the possibility of someone breaching the bridge directly... o_O Then again, any smart fleet keeps its' combat command centres deep in the ship...

    At least the other ships are smart enough to recognise one of their vessels may be subverted...

    No escape. No surrender. These guys are getting an up-close lesson of why he's the Illustres.

    That's a nasty trick. Dumping automated factories making kill-drones into space... I doubt they care to deploy shutdown commands afterwards, either, since they'd have IFF to call the drones off. Could be messy if one gets forgotten about...

    Heh. Quality over quantity, eh?

    Consider that swarm squashed. Without prejudice, because OL just doesn't care.

    Or a method to prevent capture and subversion. Can't be turned if you're dead, after all. Same reason they self-destruct on Identity Theft attempts.

    I doubt their drill-ships (Thank you, Hell's Razer) were ever intended to turn away from a live enemy anyway. So the crews are well out of their depth.

    Oh, one of them wants to talk? Let's hear what they have to say, then...

    ...Oh, it's you. Trying to gloat again, Mr Reach Admiral?

    Not that I expect such a trap would work on OL again. Even if he didn't notice it with scans, he's got that little respawn point setup going on, not that the Reach realise that. Yet.

    ...Okay, he's got class. Your last gun didn't do the job? Use a bigger one.

    <sucks a breath through my teeth> Oh, dangit, OL. Even if you're just trying headology on him, you do not need to make them think that. Who knows what they'll try next. They might even break out the weapons with theological implications...

    Even with live ones, you do have actual mission objectives...

    Hopefully they'll just take it as bragging and assume he just has some manner of exotic escape method. Like a good old dimensional shift.

    <facepalm> OL, dammit... Let them think what they want. Make their intelligence division scramble to confirm or repudiate your claims...

    Probability of Success: Nope.

    Quoting Reach scripture? Odd. Do they honestly believe they're Reach, and thus covered by their holy books? Would explain the desire to serve...

    Problem with speaking up in combat: It announces your location pretty damn well to all who can hear it...

    On the upside, the support ship's going to have one hell of a view of the fight (albeit at some delay.) Imagine the scenes when people review the combat footage. "Oh, nice! He cored that one right through!"

    Looks like the last of them want to go down fighting.

    Indeed. You're not such a bastard as to be merciless. And badasses like this? They deserve to live.

    ...A pity the rest haven't the sense to quit when they're behind.

    And so the juluuni move into the 'practically extinct' column, alongside the Citadelians and Psions (I assume some survived Wombworld's burning...) And at least the second such race OL's had a personal hand in. I fully expect Threllian's people to be in the same shape: meat-robots utterly devoted to the Reach doctrines. I guess we'll find out soon enough, once the wrap-up of this fight is done.
     
  8. Bramble Thorn

    Bramble Thorn Verified Silhouette

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    Well you see, he was afraid the next three or four times they killed him would just be with bigger and bigger explosions trying to get past his 'superior construct shields' that had no effect on the arcane construct soul he considers his true self and uses to maintain continuity of Identity between bodies.

    So by telling them they are doing it wrong, he give them a chance to jump straight to assassin options using exotic principles that have a better chance of disrupting his energy form Id backups, such as weapons with Theological Implications, or Necromancy Most Foul™

    It's all very efficient in a "the exact specifics of how the OLC Illustres survived is a matter of utmost security to the OLC and revealing it to foreign enemies sounds a lot like treason" kind of way.

    But on the bright side, this is already something he revealed to some rando star nation he assumed the Reach were spying on last episode.
    When they assumed OL was gotten himself killed, and then had a mindstate backup uploaded into a decanted clone body. And he was kind enough to clarify, so the rando space people wouldn't come to the wrong conclusion about how specifically he cheated death.

    ...Yes. Zoat is in fact being a blithering idiot here.
     
  9. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Like my above post mentioned, there's nothing stopping them from coming to that conclusion themselves.

    And even if they didn't know about it they may have still chosen to use more exotic weapons after the other ones weren't working.

    Technically he does in the form of his ring.

    I think the Psions are all dead paragon side, while there may be some Citadelians alive.

    A dozen started working for Amalak after Paul and Amalak killed the rest, and I think it was either mentioned or implied that some that escaped also started working for him.

    Though at this point I think it can safely be concluded that they're in deaths waiting room and that no one has the desire or possibly even the resources to help them grow.
     
  10. FreeGod

    FreeGod If you see a God on the road fuck it!

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    Well OL Paul is. I don't know why he is always so chaty about his abilities and how they might be countered. Isn't earth being all scry proofed enough of a lesson?
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  11. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    So, grab their dna, and create clones to breed their species back?
     
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  12. WaleXdraK

    WaleXdraK Not too sore, are you?

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    There is a lot of kind of immortality around, they don’t have all the same weaknesses and while the Reach are good i doubt they would be able to build a True anti-immortal weapon..
     
  13. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    It's easy to forget this with the way Zoat writes things...

    But the Reach are supposed to be near parity to the Maltusians and actually more advanced then the Controllers.

    And what advantage it gives, is that there's no such thing as Immortality and it should be really easy for the Reach to build something that could just nope his ability to respawn.

    That said, absolutely nothing will come of this because Paragon never looses.
     
  14. Senevri

    Senevri Not too sore, are you?

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    Eh, YMMV. See, qwa-matter explosions definitely work, and also have quite a bit collateral damage. Getting the Reach to use other methods with less of a chance of that, or soul damage, is actually kinda good. Unfortunately it's also going to be a roulette spin on whether what they come up with is worse or not.
     
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  15. Bramble Thorn

    Bramble Thorn Verified Silhouette

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    Thing of it like playing Russian Roulette, where your continued existence is in some danger from them no matter what you do, but the more accurate information you give them due to piss poor info security, the more bullets they can load into the barrel before the game starts.

    If you are able to help limit the information they have about your true about your weakness by the simple expedient of keeping your freaking mouth shut OL you moron, the the next few attempts to kill you will have less bullets in the chamber, and be more likely to fail.

    If instead someone decided to be a Chatty Cathy Blabbermouth, then the information the Reach would normally have to gain from espionage and analyzing the data from the times they tried and failed to kill you (or did kill you, but you got better.), can instead be gained from listening to the OL spills the beans blooper reel.

    There is a time value at play here.
    Time they are wasting trying to send infiltrators Maltus to sabotage the cortical stack containing OL personality matrix (the one that they think is being used to give his clones his backed up memories), is time and effort that is not spent hiring exorcists or commissioning soul gems.

    Also also, it they guess the mechanism wrong, that is a good thing.
    Because it means they are wasting their time on something that cannot actually permakill him.
    So, letting them know they are on the wrong track, is not a good thing to be doing, unless you are more interested in a dramatic action scene then winning.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  16. Michael Vonica

    Michael Vonica Know what you're doing yet?

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    Ways to get rid of Paul:
    Push him somewhere else. Like the bleed. No guarantee he won't just find his way back, but I'm not sure what kind of weird and impossible to escape dimensions exist in the DC universe. Plus, a new sort of one could always be introduced for story convenience. He could also be trapped and killed with no local clones, leaving him as a soul in space. At which point the Reach would either need to collect him or destroy his soul, which would need some sort of super advanced tech or energy.

    Cast some really weird powerful magic on him. The Reach don't even know the first thing about alchemy. Sure, they could learn, but to create an entirely new magic tradition in any sort of reasonable time frame is a bit much even for them. Not to mention that it would have to be effective in space. It's probably too late for them to borrow one from their conquered people, and leaving a conquered people's magic tradition intact does not seem like something they would do. They could always hire a highly skilled space mercenary wizard. Good luck there, as the Controllers could probably outbid.

    Use some really weird powerful exotic energy on him. Qwa-matter wasn't enough to destroy his soul, and that stuff has a recommendation from the anti monitor. I don't know if there is anything that trumps qwa-matter, probably omega beams, but for whatever powers are available, it doesn't really matter whether or not the Reach know that Paul is immortal, because they were going to research it anyway. Another possible option would be to use emotional spectrum energy to disrupt Paul's soul, but once again, the Reach are already on the case, and not even the Qwardians themselves were able to get a total success in this area.

    Any other ways?
     
  17. Assblaster5000

    Assblaster5000 I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Hi, I'd like to introduce you to a little know character named Trigon. He is, among other things, completely immortal, with even a amped Raven, who at the time was wielding enough power to kick literally anyone's ass, not being able to put him down permanently.

    And while I agree that Paragon isn't currently at a point where he would have that level of survivability, he shouldn't actually be all that far off for scaling reasons I'd really rather not go into for time's sake.
     
  18. Rafin

    Rafin Not too sore, are you?

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    But why does the brain need to be involved at all? It's an Orange ring. Shouldn't "I want all Reach space to be scanned but I don't want said scan results to be dumped into my brain" be enough, with the only parameters being how much the Lantern wants it and how well they control their ring? It's not a Green ring where the Lantern has to actually be able to imagine what they are doing.
     
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  19. rkyeun

    rkyeun Cabbitus Maximus

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    I'm Vandal Savage, and I approve this mess-- oh wait, I died. Shit.
     
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  20. rkyeun

    rkyeun Cabbitus Maximus

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    The brain needs to be involved because you are harnessing the Glow, an emergent feature of sophonts. You cannot make a machine which can wield a ring unless that machine has a mind capable of feeling emotions. At which point, you may begin to make statements about how many standard persons worth of mind and emotions it is, because there is clearly not a 1:1 correspondence between number of bodies or biomass and ability to give a shit, even among humans. One of the most powerful Green Lanterns in existence is the size of a planet and uses an entire ecosphere as its emotive substrate. If Mogo put a ring on every individual squirrel and monkey and blade of grass, how powerful would them all acting in concert and as one be? Because that's what Mogo is start with.
    [​IMG]
     
  21. norax1

    norax1 Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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    While I agree Zoat messed up with Paul giving away secrets, my Head Cannon is that Paul tries to double bluff the Reach. Meaning make the truth sound like a lie. (Still Paul could have said, you killed my stunt double. Or something like that.)

    What I think is the bigger oversight, is that Paul never ordered/programme his AI to give responses for one liners in battle (Or when to ask for surrender.)
    Or at least made guidelines what to communicate in given situations.
    The brianiac OL should have given him an official statement. Or the PR department.

    Also most of the mentioned ways the Reach could get rid of Paul or find the information out for themselves seem unrealistic.

    Even freezing him in time just means he will use a time machine. Maybe putting him on the source wall/Promethean Galaxy? Yuga Khan (Darksides father) is there. And escaped within a few millennia

    Btw: Will we ever get a DC Superhero Girl OL Paula? Rule 63 must be upheld
     
  22. Sockmonkey

    Sockmonkey I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I think you want the word "mussel" rather than "muscle" in reference to pearls.
     
  23. theaceoffire

    theaceoffire Versed in the lewd.

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    ...?

    I'm remembering something about penguins?
     
  24. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Experienced.

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    Mr Zoat, if Kara only goes out in costume in emergencies, what about Match? Is he a full timer and potential member of the Team in the Paragon timeline, or also a part-timer like Kara?
     
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  25. Mors

    Mors Making the rounds.

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    Wait what? Sauce?

    From what I know (I don't read comics much so it's all osmosis) GLs fought the Reach to a draw, and the GLs are just an enforcement arm of the Guardians.

    So it sounds like a universal superpower vs a regional superpower to me.

    Also why would the Controllers be less advanced? They split off a long time ago so have the Guardians just progressed faster?
     
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  26. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
    I think he'd be a part timer. Without Kon's obsessive need to be as much like Superman as possible and a definite need to be a person, I doubt that he'd want to devote the sort of time to it that Kon is.
     
  27. Bud-E

    Bud-E Stand up so I can push you down!

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    When did Vandal Savage die? I remember Ra's dying off-screen when the League of Shadows fell apart but not Savage.
     
  28. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    The most prominent mentions of him dying were when Adom tore him apart.

    When Mandate Paul disintegrated a version of him.

    When Anti Ring and Sybarite threw their versions in the sun.

    And of course when renegade assimilated his version.

    I think paragon Vandal is still alive though.
     
  29. Chaoswind

    Chaoswind Lord of nonsense

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    Paul is wasting a temporary advantage by telling everyone and their mother he is functionally immortal, but having the reach ambush him with bigger and bigger bombs is a huge detriment to Paul mission and likely to destroy things in the collateral damage that he doesn't want the reach to destroy... Like if the Reach had used qwa bombs on these penal/brainwashed fleets they would have failed to kill him, but Paul would also fail his mission as well.


    It's just better for Paul in the short term if the Reach stop placing huge bombs whenever he goes... In the long term the reach will develop weapons to kill immortals, but let's be honest that is also good for him as the weapons they will develop can be then taken/traded away and used on the many other immortal beings of the universe and Paul doesn't like most of those.


    Finally, I think this is what will spur the Reach to contact the light, maybe they will eventually betray Vandal Savage and take him to test their anti immortal weaponry on him because for an immortal he is extremely weak.
     
  30. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    I think Zoat mentioned that the timeline for when the Reach come to Earth would be altered.

    If he still sticks with this then I'm betting that the Reach may get desperate for some exotic weapons to fight the OLC, and Earth with its potential metahumans may be what they need, so they come there early.

    And that thing about them experimenting on Savage made me think of another story called The Dark Shard on SB.

    In it Psimon and Queen Bee get abducted by those Croloteans after the Light is destroyed due to infighting and outside attacks, so they can use their abilities in their enterprises.
     
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