With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Tyr was never head honcho.

Dyēus was, then he became Tiwaz who also was, but then Tiwaz trisected into Zeus, Jupiter, and Tyr.

Unlike Zeus and Jupiter however, Tyr was never actually referenced as being the head/chief god of the Norse pantheon.

 

Probably.

Uncle Sam had a limited series where he was confronted by his dark half, the "I love the smell of Napalm in the morning. It smells like victory!" imperialist version of the American Dream.

So my first instinct is to agree with Chojin that this is probably Zoat adapting that storyline.

 

According to the OED, those should be "Hellenes", unless I misunderstand what you're referring to.

 

There is, of course, also the option that Lady Liberty is Boss Smiley. Infiltration and subversion at the divine level is a thing he's done before after all.

 

Susanoo would be more likely.

 

Way back when O.L.’s personhood bill was ratified, “Uncle Sam” was present, but he did not speak. The Truggs scene mentioned above seems to be another appearance. So what is going on here?

A) a Dial was used at some point which turned someone into an Uncle Sam lookalike. Probably not a literal Bizarro-Sam, but anything is possible.
B) An alternate Uncle Sam from an alternate Earth is active, but something at his core is distinct from the Sam known to Lady Liberty.
C) Smiley? Who might not exist? But who probably does exist, given the personal-identification-rune used during the Heaven arc… eh.
D) A New God is trying something undercover.
E) Some other alien…?

 

Thank you, corrected.

He knew what Hephaestaean meant.

 

I see people forgot about Star Crossed the best Renegade episode.

Remember the guy that Grayven threw into Jupiter? The head of the US department that went traitor and was allied with the local caveman and apocalypse? None of you remember what body that swell guy had snatched?

 

You mean the people he's been mocking relentlessly since the first episode?

 

I like this guy. Originally I got him confused with Baldr and it took me awhile to realize that.

Just like that, he sidesteps so many of the old follies.

Also a good point, though I would point out that usually it is the older soldiers who think about such things because they've gone through it before. Senior NCOs tend to take that long view even if their juniors don't.

The plot thickens!

All in all, I really like this guy.

 

No. Vaermina I get that you seem to personally dislike zoat. You're perfectly fine to do so, but just outright lying to win imaginary points on the internet is kinda sad.

I did some research and managed to find out that Tyr is only sparingly present in prose and poetic edda. Most notably Tyr is known for wrestling the monstrous hound Fenrir and losing his arm in the process. And for being a member of the Aesir tribe who represented war and bloodshed while somewhat paradoxically, he was also known as a bringer of justice and order.

All I've found makes references to how Tyr is a smart (originally germanic) god with a good sense of justice and comraderie. So you claiming that Tyr is even worse than Ares, especially DC Ares is just an outright lie.

 

He did mention that things like stone spears and other primitive crafts were as much a part of his domain as metalworking.

 

Heph was probably lumping the Aesir and Vanir together.

Okay, what happened in that episode?

Wow, Vaermina hates this story and continues to try to make it seem bad by lying about it.

This is not a shocker.

 

Yeah, a lot of the Norse myths were written down after Christianity got a foothold on most of the Norse world.

A lot of things are probably false.

And some of those falsehoods may not be intentional and could have come from things like bad translations or not understanding the past culture enough to write about it accurately.

If they believe in the whole inescapable prophecy thing then they may ot have much choice.

Ehh, the guy is a high-ranking warrior and is invincible, so there re way to make his life harder by either demoting him or making him vulnerable.

The Norse appreciated strength.

I think it was called "VidULike".

I'm also getting flashbacks to that divine phone app thing from the City of Demons movie.

And it would be nice advertisement to potentially attract other dissatisfied gods.

Paul now has far greater stakes in Heph since Heph can help him in so many ways now.

Unless Paul decides that the Uncle Sam thing needs more of his attention.

 

Tyr seems like a good guy but I can't help but think that he's potentially a Nordic spy or he's making shit up and was sent by Odin to have an in with the Greeks or he's actually Loki testing the waters before he makes a transition fully himself.

Don't wrestle with a pig, you'll get filthy and they'll enjoy it. Same concept with a troll.

 

So considering the whole Old Gods are the canon version of Asgard, with a 'Lokee', and Wotan is this OC Tyr all that will be showing up or will others be appears as more gods get involved?

 

No offence but do you do anything other than moan and complain? I don’t usually read the comments here, just read the chapter and move on but for the last week I have not seen you do anything but immediately complain and moan about this story. There’s hate watching something and then there’s this, god damn if you don’t like the story just stop or are you some kind of masochist?

 

I see no reason why Euanth's followers cant coexist with Hephestus. Not all of them need to live with advanced technology. Especially given that the preservation of the environment and the rainforest in particular are important.

The advanced technology allows us to live more dense, farm more efficiently, etc. So that allows more land to be set aside for preservation.

 

This is Vaermina we're talking about here.

They can't do anything but moan and complain.

Don't try to reason with them, don't ask them to have logical opinions, don't beg them to change, don't insult them into changing.

Just don't interact with them in any way; you'll only be wasting your time.

Just put them on ignore and don't look back.

 

Shrug. Oftentimes I agree with him. The protagonist is very much wish fulfillment/Mary Sue-esque character. And while Zoat knowledge of DC lore is breathtaking.... his characterization is.... inconsistent. Some of this is probably due to the 'mix-and-match' nature of the story with YJ canon being priority and DC lore secondary which leads to the Justice League especially feeling both under-powered for the the setting and not really in character compared to their comic counterparts in comic storylines.

Many times the only thing keeping me engaged in the story is sheer momentum from having read it for years and years at this point. As well as Zoat's incredible dedication to daily updates. Its very impressive. However frankly sometimes the story is quite bad and I far more enjoy 'Renegade' over 'Paragon'.

Do I consider this particular Arc bad? Not really. It pretty much went as expected for the most part and had some pleasant minor twists that kept me engaged enough.

 

I gotta ask: Are you just making this up because it's neat and fun or are you using either an obscure theory or a preexisting fictional story/book for inspiration? Because this is the first time ever that I've heard of Tyr as being above the All-father.

Also, I think this video is interesting if we start discussing Norse mythology.

 

oh great Father time is up to shit again.

Now Paragon Paul gets to deal with S.H.A.D.E. just like Graven Paul did.

 

My knowledge is no deeper that a wikiskim.

 

I don't fully agree with your points but I can sympathize and feel some of the same issues such as the odd characterization.

And I also partly read this story just because I've been reading it for years on a daily basis.

 

If you're familiar with the basics of Proto Indo-European mythology, the root of Greek, Roman, Celtic, Germanic/Norse, Vedic and several other myths and languages, the ruler of the gods was the Sky Father, called something like Dyaus Pitar (reconstructed by linguists). The 'Dyaus' element gives us 'Zeus' and the generic 'deus' to describe divinities.

Similarly, it gives us Tiwaz, the original/older name for Tyr, and even 'Tyr' can become a generic term for a god, a bit like Deus in Latin, e.g. one of Odin's titles is Hangatyr (the Hanged God). Dyaus Pitar also turns into Jupiter. So you can see/reconstruct the idea that Tiwaz/Tyr was the original ruler of the gods until the cult of Odin (who I'm not sure has been linked to an Indo-European deity, though he's later interpreted as the Germanic equivalent of Mercury/Hermes by the Romans) presumably took precedence. Zoat's interpretation here is a bit interesting as a reflection of this. Tiwaz and Tyr both show up and are actually distinct characters in the Marvel comics, I believe, with Tiwaz being Odin's grandfather or something, which is probably a nod to this situation too. The more familiar Tyr doesn't seem to retain much of his Sky Father traits, but like Sandman and American Gods say, gods have to learn to change with the times.

There's a separate Indo-European thunder god (linked to thunder, wielding a thunderbolt-weapon, and oak trees) who's mixed with Dyaus Pitar to give us Zeus (and likely Jupiter), but who also gives us Thor, Indra and the Slavic Perun more or less by himself (the name-connection may be harder to track in several cases).

 

Huh. Kinda reminds me of how Yahweh maybe-usurped El's position.

 

I don’t remember everything, but it turned out that SHADE controlled the USA from the shadows, led by Father Time, and they had an obscenely powerful metahuman called Paragon who was creating a robot to impersonate the president. I think that impersonating the president is what he is talking about.

 

I had a DCAU fic idea way back when, part of which included Yahweh figuring out how to connect to the Source and thus transform from a local Semitic polytheistic god to his later monolatric/monotheistic self we're familiar with in real-life and DC comics. And 'El' is similar in terms of being the name of a specific (chief) god and a term for gods in general e.g. the originally plural 'Elohim'.

Now granted, my knowledge mainly also comes from wikiwalks, but hopefully I haven't said anything fundamentally inaccurate about comparative mythology and history, etc.

 

That does make sense since the Greek Hermes is actually a lot older than many of the other Greek gods having split off from Pan and is a trickster god with a large portfolio that includes taking thw souls of the dead to the under word. In the Dresden Files Donar Vadderung (Odin) not only used to be Hermes but also Lugh/Lugus/Lleu Llaw Gyffes after who London and Lyons were named.

 

No, the Old Gods who were the predecessors of the New Gods were Asgardians in SPACE...ACE...ACE.

It was literally a plot point in the New Gods that Darkseid was hesitant to outright attack Earth because of the Norse Gods, because he was afraid that their obvious but mysterious connection to the Old Gods would mean they'd rip his head off and play soccer with it.

Someone actually summoned Thor from Earth to Apokalips to kill Darkseid, hoping that Darkseid's concern was justified.

Sadly we'll never know, because Barda and Scott Free stopped him from even meeting Darkseid.

So while I'd love for this story to include Thor going all hammer time on Darkseid's face, I don't see it happening.