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Pax's Alternate History Snippet repository.

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Imperator Pax, Jan 16, 2021.

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  1. ATP

    ATP Experienced.

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    You could mention Italy,too,when people speak various languages,but school made them using northern dialect from Savoi.
    And,in your future Xien,considering how many russians refugees come,you could add russian,too.
    If there would be any polish refugees who stay,many would join after WW2.Add polish then.
     
  2. Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    Yeah Italy both north and south probably should have warranted direct comment

    The russian refugee situation is actually already started which is going to have butterflies down the way given that there is already some movement out of Kirghiz and into north east Xinjiang but that will after 1919 effect in particularly populations from Altai Krai fleeing the civil war along with other people settling into the south and east away from the fighting
     
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  3. ATP

    ATP Experienced.

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    Polish refugees mostly would go to Poland,but few who remain could become magnet for next wave after WW2/if,like in OTL,USA gave us to sralin for nothing/
    Russians would stay,and be useful.Their fieldguns was good,but you have arleady your own,so not taking them.Maybe Schneider 122mm howitzer? it was more efficient then 105mm.
    Other things - you do not need bombers yet,so no Illia Muromiec.Russian made Spad fighters,but you would get better from A-H or germany,so rather wait for them.
    And Awtamat fedorowa was first assault gun ever made/by accident,but still/ so you should take it for elite units.It was too costly for entire army.
     
  4. Threadmarks: April 1917
    Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    April 1917
    He needed it seemed to sit down with Hioki at the legation, but that meant ... dealing with other issues. and it mean finding the time that they could agree on. ... and speaking of time, "How quickly can you finish the order?"

    Griswold scowled, "We'll finish when we finish Allen." He replied tersely. "I've always found it fucking queer the Brits never let the Australians have their own arsenal, and I'd guess they regret letting the Canadians have one, but that doesn't change the situation."

    "And?" He asked, hoping Griswold would get on with it.

    "The States have two short of fourteen hundred machine guns in inventory. That is One thousand Three Hundred, and Ninety Eight." Almost half of which were Hotchkiss 1909. The Benet Mercie. "and that includes a number of 303 Lewis's that they somehow got past Crozier."

    and into Black Jack's hands. "Yeah, I can't imagine he's happy about that." He said referring to the ordinance chief, "Can you take the Australians and show them the dwarves." He said referring to the rimmed 303 cartridge.

    "Sure." Griswold replied. It was a sullen response. "I can do that."

    He waved the paper. It pronounced the US declaration of war on the German Empire. He didn't mention that Kimble had voted against it, something he was scarcely able to believe. Sam had done his stint in Peurto Rico when that peckerwood had been there... a life time ago. "We're out of time. The US is in the European's war. The single largest industrial power the world has ever seen has officially decided to wade into the old world's blood feud."

    Griswold waved him off, "Alright, alright don't be theatrical. Its just us." He took the paper, and whistled, "Fifty votes against." He meant the house of representatives, the upper house of the congress had voted 82 to 6. "Guess the money wasn't good enough." He muttered darkly. "What are we due for?"

    Allen didn't immediately respond. "The French were angling for price controls on international goods even before the states entered the war. Wilson is putting together a commission. We will find out what it means by the summer, getting everything in writing and locked down is the priority. I think we can expect Wilson to start acting European towards Industry, and if they think the states are coming in and that Washington can pressure firms to sell at a reduced prince they'll be less contracts at the market rate." That presented a problem for production for export to the British Empire , and also for paying a growing expatriate community looking to sit the war out now that it was here. "Since Stevens is coming we're going to move assets towards rail, and such."

    "I thought you said Hayashi was stirring up that mess in Harbin. Isn't that going to make trouble for Stevens coming in?"

    "It looks like it at least, but I don't know for sure if..." He paused, still not sure that Hayashi even knew, it didn't seem like he'd been officially informed, "I've been told that the Brits and the frogs haven't even told Japan about the Tran Siberian tender." Not that it mattered at this point, because Japan did most certainly know now even if it wasn't official. Still it was no wonder that the founding fathers, and now most recently Wilson kept banging on about secret diplomacy being bad... it was hard to keep straight who was supposed to know of what plot.

    "That's going to have to be talked about." Griswold observed wryly referring to the entire cadre, or at least as much of it as could be put together. Before the European war he had never found it especially difficult to sit a hundred men in a room to talk out and debate the issue... but things had changed. "That's another thing I don't understand, Britain backs up the Russians and the French on Siems Carrey last year," And really the year before, "Now they turn around and do this."

    Allen shrugged. "As you said Sam, we're going to have to talk about it. Its not the only thing either," He remarked, "The British mission officially reported there to be an estimated half million men under arms last year in China." and part of that of course was that Yuan Shikai's entire tenure had been a constant program of trying to downsize the military, disperse and disband ossified Qing hereditary soldieries and save money, but then having to turn around hire and fire new soldiers to pad his numbers whenever the south threw a fit. "Duan, and Li are fighting, Duan is insistent, I'd even go ahead and use the word strident there, that they," China, "declare war on Germany."

    Griswold shook his head, "They want a seat at the table, Yuan thought the same thing." That was probably the Beiyang position... at least to some degree or another. "So the problem is what?" ... when one got right own to it... it was because the current parliament had been given their seats in 1913 and no one wanted to hold new elections and they were all a collection of little cliques looking to get bought off, and no one hadnt handed over any bags of silver dollars yet. "Oh, before I forget, Powell should be getting in from Hawaii, monday probably. Well to Tietsin he can take the train up here then." There was a pause as they settled into a standoffish air, "There is a rail job in the banana republic. I think he thinks, that the Swiss office opening up means we're looking for other investment options."

    "Edenborn."

    "Yeah I figured that too. One thing to talk about. If you can live in south texas you can live in Honduras I suppose." The number of people who didn't want to be drafted was bound to increase now that the US in the war , but China was an ocean away. They'd had a few thousand come in since the previous October, and more total since the preparedness movement had really started back in 1915 but the organization stateside was probably going to see a surge as people clamored for safe overseas jobs to avoid fighting in Europe's trenches for a war they didn't see the states having any business being in.
    --
    It was a nice day, but his thoughts were elsewhere as he and Bill McCulloch prepared to watch the spring evaluation of one of the experimental mechanized machine gun platoons. It wasn't really a copy of the system the British were using, but they wanted to make sure their idea worked nearer to home before they sent it to the regiments.

    It was a platoon though, and he was thinking of other details the British had commented on.

    Half a million men.

    He'd missed having Powell around, but there were as too much to do to just drink and catch up with Phillip and his misadventures stateside. They'd talked about his proposed 'mexican adventure' as Bill had dubbed it, only in the broadest of senses... Phillip had been unaware that the Trans Siberian was a thing... or that that there were emergency 'other' priorities.

    Cuba and Panama had made the Post, declaring war on Germany citing their respective alliances to the United States... which of course had meant Duan had used Monday to bang on further about joining the growing wave sure to envelop Germany, but President Li wasn't having it. It was unavoidable that that was going to come to a head at some point.

    Xian was a city of millions, and though not the only reason the fact that the Dujun Chen Shufan would rather stay in Peking meant they had near uncontested local civil administration... because Chen had shit canned Li Genyuan at the end of February while Allen had been abroad. That just meant that Chen was only doing his ministerial job and leaving both governorships to lapse. He wasn't managing the province, and he certainly wasn't managing the city. More importantly than that he wasn't keeping an eye on the south, towards Szechwan and Hunan.

    "Are you sure you want to do this?"

    "What do you mean?"

    "Extending compulsory education to sixteen, and requiring it to enlist is going to be a tall order."

    That wasn't exactly accurate, but they were for all intensive purposes in charge of the city, ... and a couple towns for that matter, and had been just because the way the railways worked. "I'm sure." They weren't instituting conscription. Besides the real point wasn't to require education for military service it was to make sure they had blue and white collar workers for their own factories... the English language and mathematics had military application, but that was a bonus. "I don't know if I'd have tagged it compulsory education."

    "You wanna slap some other label on it, but workers send their kids to school because its required."

    He was pretty sure it was also because they were fed at school, and also that it didn't cost them anything out of pocket, but he waved the comment to the side, "We have other problems to deal with, and I want to look at phasing this in."

    There was a detachment from Gansu's mixed brigade in town, there was trouble down south... and there was trouble to the north. That meant Shensi had about five directions worth of possible trouble the compass be damned.

    "Even so Al," Bill leaned back, "That could back fire. "

    "Speaking of backfire," He replied, "Powell in another example of initiative has been talking to Ford's people."

    "Yeah, how'd that go?"

    "Its all contingent on the war ending." He replied, "They want us to buy cars,"

    "No, well obviously, but how much."

    "Two point one million a year for a decade in goods and services, they'll send their own engineers show us how to set up a line, show us all of it."

    A Nash rolled forward of the line, heavy steel plates covering the makeshift armored car as the clock struck the hour. "Ten years." Bill had shifted his weight which was enough to make the bannister creak under the pressure.

    "Its a nice even number." Even if it was a lot of money, even across that time, "I've been thinking that we need to get back on a planning schedule, ever since the war started we've been running from one fire to the next. Powell looking south of Mexico, and with Switzerland, and of course the fact we're going to have bandit raids across the border starting if not this month then surely next then we have to get back on a schedule."

    "I don't think banking on ten years is the best idea... we didn't try that under the Qing, and they collapsed half way through."

    He nodded, and from the observation post watched as men got in the back of the truck and it lumbered from one soggy hill to the next, and thankfully didn't get stuck. "Are they going to be ready?"

    "They'll be fine, we won't cause too much trouble," Bill replied, the garrison in the south was nearly done, "I figure really we can let Ma the younger go over the border near the Bashan, let him see if he can flush those dens you thought might be on the other side."

    "No expeditionary actions Bill, stay on our side of the fence." The Texan waved him off as the second of the three squads in the platoon began its maneuver with its truck.

    "You think that's going to be a problem. Got to have two guys in the truck." He clarified, "You've got the two machine gunners in the squad, and their support."

    "I think that having a driver and a mechanic in each squad is fine. The truck running and moving is more important than two guys with rifles." Bill didn't seem sure of that. "Its experimental, we won't really know until we know."

    "That's true." The larger man drawled, "Feel better when we can give 'em more than pistols to drive with." They'd been over that too. The 98 pattern were full rifles, they were too large to effectively have a vehicle driver or mechanic to use. Model 8 and 1905s would have worked but they didn't have enough of those so it came down to pistols.

    "The Broomhandles take stocks."

    "European come up with queer things to put on pistols," The Texan muttered. "And I don't need reminding Colt thought it was a good idea. They also thought putting bayonets on wheel guns was a good idea." He watched the third squad deploy from the backs of the truck the sergeant barking orders, "Trading that third gun for trucks, makes them faster."

    "Makes the ammo last longer too."

    --
    Notes: This has holdovers from a separate prompt, though it does tie in to a much later part of the timeline, where the source CYOA for this 'Chinese Warlord' I remarked that I'm surprised or disappointed that the Author hasn't done a comparable Mexican Revolution / Banana Wars one set in the same time period.

    Spoiler, but this is foreshadowing the 'Federal Republic of Central America', the union of Honduras and Nicraruaga, and other trans American trade into south America in the twenties and thirties, and then after WW2 in the late forties and early fifties, but for the most part its just a separate part of the timeline. But mostly this is cold war era stuff that wont show up all that frequently.

    But mostly this is set up for where the central government and the accelerated social disintegration picks up in May.



    Pre Xian Experimental Machine Gun Platoon (Mechanized)
    Vehicles: 1 Armored Car with Machine gun, 1 Supply Truck, 3 Fulton Nash Quads
    Headquarters Squad
    Comprising: Platoon Commander, 1 Machine Gunner (Vehicle Gunner), 2 Driver, 2 Mechanics, 2 aid men, 5 rifle men / runners

    3x Motorized Rifle Squads
    1 Sergeant [Commanding]​
    1 Corporal​
    1 Driver​
    1 Mechanic​
    2 Machine Gunners​
    2 Machine Gun Assistant Gunners​
    5 Riflemen​

    So this is an organic step in unit evolution from the white wolf era units. A 13 man squad is the standard and that's being applied here, also is the fact that there is still the expectation that not only do officers still fight but that the headquarter section is a part of the unit as a fighting entity in these sort of formations. (This will change in later organizations of larger units, [that is to say even battalion commanders (as occurs in White Wolf) could still be expected to see combat in the offensive] but this is the beginning of greater specialization).

    The HQ is two vehicles (as opposed to each other squad being one truck) an armored car with a mounted machine gun, as well as a supply truck (each with their own driver and mechanic dedicated). The aidmen, what will later become combat medics, are not organic but are attached from on high and are make shift ambulance personnel. The platoon commander has a rifle section under his command but these also double as runners or also realistically reinforcement / replacements to losses in the field to the platoon.

    As it is the Machine gun squad in its mechanized formation drops a machine gun in exchange for having a dedicated truck driver and a mechanic who are full time specialists (i.e. Not carrying rifles, they're no longer leg infantry.). The Squads ride in the back of a truck on the move limited protection, that is some protection from small arms from the side, there are two machine gun teams and then a riflemen section who also double as ammunition bearers. In modern terminology the sergeant would be squad leader, and the corporal would be ASL and would each command a fire or maneuver section comprising half the squad, and if the sergeant goes down the corporal can take his place.
    Anyway actual fighitng, and indeed seizing territory and administering it basically as a quasi independent state of a business with tax collectors and an army added on coming to the fore in the summer months.
     
    centurion1291, Happerry and ATP like this.
  5. ATP

    ATP Experienced.

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    That should work.
    About weapons for drivers - why not shotguns?
    P.S Since Avtamat fedorova was arleady used during Brusilow offensive,they should knew about that.
    Useful for elite units,and maybe as LMG for rest.
    And Ford T really was converted into armored cars in 1920 by Poland.
     
  6. Threadmarks: April 1917 [Conclusion]
    Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    April 1917
    [Conclusion]
    The first railway they had built had been the wide track line running through north Zhili down to Peking... built for the Qing, and a line that they had then basically abandoned in favor of turning to look south away from the squabbling of the Russians and the Japanese. A line to the new office in Shijiazhuang had been run taking them from the old Tietsin office and and had carved them a place in Western Zhili province. That line had then been run Zhengzhou, and then run out west to Xian... and now that Xian line ran its way west through Lanzhou, and was expanding from Urumqi now that the construction season was in full swing. The plan was to go through all the old caravan cities.... especially now.

    A decade of work governed for most of the planning by a scientific regimen of pre planning, and of course regimented construction and organization. The railway was in a nation of dilapidated canals, and dusty provincial roads the lifeblood of modern economic travel.

    Scientific, professional... Militarist. The last was the word Reinsch used when he wanted to be uncharitable. The professor, the mid west doctor, and the US chief diplomat to the Republic of China found the particular lack of democratic institutions and the emphasis on 'cold logic' and efficiency to be 'heartless'. That flew in the exact opposite of the British legation's aristocrats complaining about the eight hour work days, among other factors in the corporate environment. The French just complained about prices, the cheapskates.

    Wilson's free trade had been the sort of thing that he'd thought would prove excellent for business, an unexpected boon. In 1913 they hadn't known what to expect. If they hadn't known what to expect in 1913 the international impacts on market and goods had been completely unprecedented by the European war.

    Augustus would be three in a few months.

    In the few months since Tsai O's death Szechwan had begun to fragment, which warranted going so far as to start positioning units that on paper were facets of modern war. The motorized experimental Machine Gun Platoon had already left. The dozen vehicles, which included a few spares Bill was taking along with his headquarters, had been loaded onto flat bed cars with elements of 2/2 in expectation of what had been called the 'summer festivals'... because that had proven increasingly the norm. The summer months approach brought pocket wars, bandit raids, and quarrels within and between the provinces.

    Nothing like Bai's uprising... the now heavily mythologized White Wolf Rebellion. No single bandit chief or prince had been able to put together a horde like Bai's, had expressed the breath of ambition like the dead man, and certainly hadn't made an attempt to actually act on it.

    Jun reclined on the couch the picture of a tigeress. "The peasants in their villages, may as well be their own distant worlds from one another," She commented, discarding the paper that slid softly onto the low table in front of her. It wasn't the first time she'd made a comment, and as the neighboring province promised to soon turn into a world of bandits divorced from all civilized behavior there were problems with that insularity that dwarfed on preconceptions. The tenant farmers and the coolies in Zhili at least had in 1909 had some understanding of the situations in practical terms.

    The Old Buddha had fled to Xian as the relief of Peking had neared. When Bai Lang had pillaged his way through the province some of the villages hadn't even known that the old woman had died... and what was a republic anyway. The Xian of their grandfather's was already transforming to a more modern city, and now several years since that boat tail had evacuated Bai's brain from his head the factories labored.

    "Does that make us or szechwan the martians?"

    "You think of the martians fighting machines?" She asked and idly folded the fan resting it against her thigh, "Perhaps then instead the bandits are Grendel."

    "Lovely I had a great dane as a boy." He lifted the tea cup infront of him, and sipped.

    She looked at him, and the shelved the question she'd been about to ask, in favor of steering the conversation back the direction she wanted it to go, "You control the ancient capital, hold the prized city of the noble Tang dynasty, and the basin's farmland. It behooves you to drive away southern barbarians with force."

    "I thought you had been all for letting the Gansu braves do their thing?"

    "The Ma boy has a slow horse."

    The Gansu brigade did actually have cavalry. Actually using large numbers of horses ... to a degree Allen had been shocked at times that they didn't still field bows like some of the tibetans were said to do. Not that a bow wasn't dangerous, some of Bai Lang's bandits had been ambushed by tibetan tribesmen who had caught them unaware because the bows hadn't produced the report of a gunshot, and really who in 1914 would have expected a horse mounted archer.

    "What I am saying is his responses are desultory. He can only move to pursue and retaliate after a blow has been struck and his replies only occasionally hit his intended foe."

    Ma was in short too slow to get over the border and hit before the bandits realized retaliation was coming. "Bill is already deploying to Hanzhong, and the trucks are experimental," They weren't even sure how well they'd do in the terrain of the Ba foothills.

    The Bashan were not exactly a place renowned for their good roads... and really it was likely an area where Ma's horses would have an easier time navigating. As much as he believed in the future potential of mechanization, the Fultons had been selected over their Model T's because of their greater beds. The better able to transport ten men and as it had been initially considered two Maxim guns, but those heavier maxim guns had been replaced by Lewis's... so maybe they could have gotten away with a shorter bed... maybe... but that didn't really solve the issue.

    The roads, or lack there of, in rural China outside the main thoroughfares, and passes, and medieval fortresses that had guarded the way for centuries in some cases long before the Ming Dynasty, were not the only way to get from one county to the next.
    --
    The clang of the factory floor even from outside was still audible a reverberating clang as the large stamping thirty ton presses came down to beat metal into shape. He wasn't here though for the factory tour, to make sure management was collecting the surveys expected or to see if they couldn't make things run more efficiently.

    Even with the noise he could here Griswold and Phillips talking with the British ordinance lot about the mortars. Despite the three inch tubes being for the Australians, there was only one of them present, and he might as well have been English by looks and bearing. There were two englishmen alongside Percy and thankfully missing was Percy's most recent associate partner from the legation.

    Lloyd George had had to force the adoption of the mortar. The welshman and his office having to fight uphill through people who had argued themselves blue that they wouldn't need the new weapon because the war would be over... and that delay had pushed the full service of the weapon in Europe and there were still persons who obstinately resisted boy George's best efforts to put the three inch stokes mortar into wider scale. Allen half suspected that was why the munitions ministry had turned to overseas production, and why George might well want imperial troops that weren't from the British Army to have them.

    Having caught sight of him, Percival stepped away from the conversation, and made a beeline as he came across the paved interior of the factory yard. "Percy."

    "John Allen." The brit returned. He paused to watch a tractor steam by towing a fifteen centimeter howitzer, "I swear I saw the same trails being used on your field guns as the smaller howitzers."

    "Yes," He replied, and pointed back to the factory he'd passed where the clanging still rumbled. "The Krupps will all take the same trails now, it gives the smaller guns better elevation." The emphasis was on mobility the new carriages were designed to hook to tow behind trucks, and had wide steel wheels not dissimilar to those on the 'Five-nines' like that which had just rolled by. "What's that argument about, over there."

    "Ah well, just a disagreement about how useful manuever warfare is, with things bogged down over there." Percy deferred, "Theres no trouble, the mortars are all fine, but some people don't see the point of them."

    Ordinance was what Ordinance was. It didn't matter he supposed if they were American, English or French the old men were conservatives protecting what they knew to work, and guarding the purse like old women. "But he doesn't have any problem proofing them?"

    "No, certainly not." Percy had half turned to glance at the senior of the two British ordinance men who was carrying on with Phillips. "You missed it earlier but I know that some of the other fellows were around," He glanced around and shuffled a little closer, "I wanted you to hear it from me, before it becomes public."

    "You said something about wanting to talk about the Russians."

    Percy's face blinked, "Oh, yes, a different thing, but yes that's related to this in a way." The englishman schooled his features, "Alston doesn't know it yet... but John Jordan is coming back. The Prime Minister himself asked it, and has talked him into it." Alston who had seen himself as in line to replace John Jordan was going to be apoplectic when that came out in public. Whether or not Alston was or wasn't one of Ed Gray's lackeys had been less important than his swaggering into the office, and if Jordan was coming back there was sure to be a row over who was entitled to what. "Well, yes I did want to talk about the Russians as well. Its imperative we keep them in the war."

    There was that we again. Even before Wilson had gone to congress Percy had insisted on using the we, we, we. "You shouldn't have let let them go on the offensive. The Germans have to be to running out of material without international trade, but that doesn't mean they can't defend." The same reason France's offensives had been stupid repeats of everything proven not to work. Percy started to protest that there had been joint agreements between the entire entente, and that all four, including Italy had agreed to the offensive...

    "Besides it succeeded in pulling the Germans back from Verdun."

    He had to wonder if that really mattered. So he shrugged, "Lansing has, great confidence in the new government." Which might well have just been the smoke he was blowing up Wilson's ass, especially given Percy's scrunching of his face. "SO what's the matter with Russia?"

    "Well, with John Jordan coming back we know that there is a great deal of expectation of railway investment. Japan is going to invest Kaichow," Kiaochow, "and Shangdong more broadly, they've already begun needling for more of that." There had been rumors now of Duan and some banker talking on top of that of course, but he didn't mention that. Nor did he correct the man's slip, just as Percy didn't correct him if he slipped somewhere, "We need to know how far you plan to run the line west."

    "Pretty damn far." He replied. The plan now that the main line west was done was to loop the basin cities, put a ring of steel tracks Kashgar and Urumqi in the north to the cities south. "The plan now that the rolling stock is ready to move to open the Kashgar spur in the summer, work our way down."

    Percy nodded, "You know about John Jordan's peculiarities with the Japanese. We need a second route."

    "Excuse me?"

    "Mr Churchill has been rehabilitated," He threw a glance to the lone Australian thirty feet away, "And as a result there is a measure inside the cabinet that maybe it would be good if there was a direct line that didn't have to go through Manchuria."

    He placed a hand on the smaller man's shoulder, "Percy, have you been told your government wants Wilson to take over the Trans Siberian, and overhaul it?"

    "What if we don't have time for that?" Percy replied, "Mr Churchill has convinced Lloyd George that we need to be able to keep the Russians in the war until overwhelming force can be brought against the Germans... and Kerensky just does not inspire confidence in his majesty's government."

    "Who's Kerensky?"

    "Oh, yes he's the new Russian minister of war." Allen nodded, and he asked when that had happened, and that just lead into a long spiral of European secret diplomacy and backroom deals that boiled down to it the French had told the British, and the Foreign Office had then by way of someone in the Tokyo office had then told Percy over the telephone. The basic jist was that Kerensky had the job but hadn't been officially given the job yet... which sounded lovely. "In any event the rail?"

    He shook his head, "No Percy, that is not feasible, you're asking me to run," He shook his head, "No thats, "Stevens is going to come in and overhaul the line that is already there, and that's going to take time."

    "We don't have time John Allen, thats what I'm telling you. The russians are on the backfoot." It should have been clear from Percy's alarm at the time that he wasn't prepared to let things go, but it was equally possible the eastern terminus of the Russian's trans-caspian line documents had already probably been compiled to send out from the British legation in Tietsin before he'd made the phone call earlier in the week... never mind before news of John Jordan made it back, or the French sharing the news of changes in the Russian cabinet were forthcoming.
    --
    Notes: Churchill gets his first name drop here, and much of the focus remains on the broader war rather than well, the president and the premier arguing about what China should do, which will eventually exasperate the fractures within the northern cliques and set the stage for July. At this particular stage despite heterodox military provincialism the beiyang were still coherent enough to keep everyone largely in line with shows of force, and well, Duan Qirui gets put into a position where that isn't enough any more, and where the provincial military factors the floodwaters can't be held back by that point.

    and also the french mutinies are happening so there is that... and the British were aware of these.
     
  7. ATP

    ATP Experienced.

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    Good chapter,as always.
    Archers had better ROF then rifleman - but much worst range,need at least 5 years to train,andlesser stopping effect.You could still fight with few arrows inside/as long as they do not hit head or heart/ but one bullet put you out of action.
    Mortars - still old ammo,so only 1km range.
    The same trail for al guns - good idea.

    P.S i read on The Sieth/good site,by the way/ thread about possible use naval guns 127mm/wwell,from 120 to 130/ as field artillery,and how it help any army which do such thing as long-range artillery.
    Maybe you could do such thing here.
     
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  8. Extras: Notes: Various Unit Order of Battles and Tables of Organization
    Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    Organizational details (Continuous).
    So as referenced in White Wolf, and remarked on in 1916 and after, Yuan Shikai as a military reformer basically spent a significant amount of his time getting promoted and then trying to clean house to get rid of inefficent corrupt money sinks in the military apparatus of the Qing dynasty, and this continued into his tenure as President. This contributed to his unpopularity. The Chinese Army in 1912 was about ~600k men and Yuan Shikai attempted to cut that down to half a million or even less for a variety of cost reasons as well as to make the army more politically reliable by disarming revolutionary southern units and separating them from the army. This led to the need to recruit more soldiers during the second revolution to address manpower needs, and then in late 1914 to try and downsize the military again, as well as institute other reforms, even though political pressure forced him to keep some Qing era hereditary units or traditional units on the books in some provinces, hence the British estimation based on Beiyang financials that China had about half a million men under arms in 1916. After 1916 this number increases (reaching an estimated 700k in 1917, and approximately a million in 1919 (out of that million number approximately 840k comprising the known major armies some 536k were in the north china area) reaching 1.404 Million in fall of 1924) as provincial military forces begin to increasingly recruit based on rallying cries provincial nationalism, 'hunan for hunanese' 'szechwan for szechwanese', etc, but these in practice just meant, particularly for the two aforementioned provinces was an excuse for two or more regional warlords to fight among themselves to be top dog. This wore down social integration, and diminished the quality of officers (particularly in fields like literacy) as ranks swelled. Indeed records show that part of the KMT's success in getting Soviet assistance was contingent on Chiang basically bullshitting Moscow that the KMT had the loyalty and the support of a much larger northern army (in manchuria) than just the army they actually had in Canton (who weren't a particularly reliable lot at that point in time either, so the whole trip was basically a huge gamble and a lot of lying on both sides).

    --
    White Wolf Era Rifle 1st Battalion c. July 1914 [Standard, post Bai Lang's Death.]
    Battalion [Placeholder]
    3 Companies + Batt HQ + Machine Gun Company, attached Artillery. *
    4 Platoons + Company HQ
    4 Rifle Squads (13 men squads) + Platoon HQ (13 Men)
    * Note that before Bai Lang's death 1st Battalion followed a British model of 4 Companies increasing it well above the previous standard of 750 Riflemen, and bringing it more inline with a British Rifle Battalion in strength.

    --
    Pre Xian Experimental Machine Gun Platoon (Mechanized) [1917]
    Vehicles: 1 Armored Car with Machine gun, 1 Supply Truck, 3 Fulton Nash Quads
    Headquarters Squad
    Comprising: Platoon Commander, 1 Machine Gunner (Vehicle Gunner), 2 Driver, 2 Mechanics, 2 aid men, 5 rifle men / runners

    3x Motorized Rifle Squads*
    1 Sergeant [Commanding]
    1 Corporal
    1 Driver
    1 Mechanic
    2 Machine Gunners
    2 Machine Gun Assistant Gunners
    5 Riflemen​
    * As a note, this is not a typo, because this is an experimental unit, it is only three squads as opposed to Leg Infantry being Four Rifle Squads, and then later 3 Rifles, and a specialist squad.
    [Placeholder]

    For comparison

    A breakdown of the ranks of a Standard Rifle Squad c.1917
    13 Men
    1 Sergeant [Commanding]
    1 Corporal
    3 PFCs / Specialists
    8 Privates

    These would divide into two sections under the sergeant and the corporal, and in later eras the standard rifle squad would have two to three light machine guns available with PFCs ussually serving as either Machine Gunners or as aid men. In the event of a sergeants incapaciation or seperation the corporal takes over and a pfc moves up to assistant, and the PFCs are intended to fill junior NCO roles in emergency hence are generally responsible for operating a complex weapon like a machine gun.

    Pre Xian c. 1918 Gendarmes Commando Squad
    13 men
    1 Lieutenant, commanding
    1 sergeant,
    4 Riflemen scouts, rated Corporal or PFC
    7 Privates, or PFCs

    Distinct from but clearly based on Xian's regular army Commando Squads of the Gendarmes are elite Rifle infantry with a minimum of two years of experience and by 1918 are still in the process of transitioning away from 7mm Mauser rifles. As with normal Rifle squads they're intended to divide into two sections, a breach and suppression team. Typically with the sergeant commanding an actual assault detachment sometimes comprising all seven privates for close order. What would occur in 1918 is the adoption of Lewis's Machine Pistol Caliber 45 for Commando evaluation squads that would eventually be supplemented with the MP18 and later the MP18M with a redesigned magazine distinct from the luger.

    Unlike with typical Infantry rifle squads, and more like the 1st regiment's wolf hunters commando squads are generally equipped with Winchester 351s or Model 8 Remingtons. Unlike Wolf Hunter Scout Platoons they do not ussually issue full size Lewis Guns, the Commando detachments reserved these at higher headquarters preferring later to replace them entirely with the automatic rifleman concept

    Xian Interwar Armor Development (Early)
    Experimental Armor organization c. 1922
    In a break from its often infantry centric organization, the Armor / Tank ETS of post war was headed up by the Artillery Service and the Corp of Engineers. They largely received, took possession of, Renaults, and British tanks which lead to the formation of an experimental mechanized brigade. This brigade was nominal in strength, here brigade actually refers to its combined arms nature.

    Among the British tanks was the protected radio carrier Mk 1, which was intended to be an effective self contained relay with Xian's burgeoning air units specifically aerial observation units. To that end these units were under the control of the Corp of Engineers however it was intended in practice that the airplanes, and mk 1 tanks would coordinate with the artillery's heavy howitzers drawn by mechanized tractors as a coherent unit. This first core tank unit was therefore under Artillery leadership and comprised these radio tanks as a platoon attachment to an otherwise typical Artillery Battalion.

    Renaults FTs however were largely treated as armored cars and thus took presence in a revitalized ETS Mechanized Rifle Company following Infantry organization. 3 Mechanized Rifle Squads were intended to be supported by two Renaults Each with existing armored cars and supply trucks. This was tested along side a version that featured a radio equipped FT but the principle problem of the FT was its cramped size and limitted firepower, even with 3 Renaults the early french design still needed work.

    The existing ETS Mechanized Rifle were either hard to coordinate units with additional tanks or lacked sufficient firepower so the first stage was set for the eventual changes. In 1922 attempts were made to increase the firepower of Renault FTs by replacing their existing armament this initially took the form of equipping them with a 1pdr QF gun that was still largely deemed unsatisfactory a solution. Indeed in 23 a new 37mm Vickers gun is introduced but many of the other short comings remain, a pound of high explosives is anemic by artillery standards.

    However by 1922 Xian has more or less to the conclusion a tank squadron of five Renaults is useful as a supporting formation. This is in the ETS an additional separate Squad in the Mechanized Rifle proposal. The command tank under a lieutenant having a machine gun armed renault with a radio in theory. Its mostly theory, in the early interwar years radio still is not sufficient nor inexpensive enough to meaningfully make this a real operation force. The Experimental Tank Brigade continues to exist on paper and its 5 tank model continues to exist even after the FT is long retired.

    1 Artillery Battalion with attached Tank (Mk1 Radio) Platoon

    Mk1 Radio Tank Platoon 1922
    10 Radio tanks, 3 Recovery Tractors (Pavesi, nominal), two Fulton Nash Quads Supply Trucks (Petrol, spare parts, spare crewmen).

    Its 1922 composition represented a problem with both command and control as well as sustainment, and of course also being particularly vulnerable to potential attack This would be revised later, but in 1922 the intention was that the radio tanks would divide themselves and position themselves with individual batteries and at battalion headquarters. This theoretically was designed that a tank could speak to its battery, communicate with headquarters, and if needed communicate with spotter aircraft. In practice though this was a bit optimistic for artillery based tanks.

    Experimental Mechanized Company's Attached FT Tank Platoon
    Platoon Headquarters (Armored cars, and supply trucks)
    3x Tank Squads
    1x Radio / Machine Gun Command Tank, 4 FT 1PDR tanks.

    The most obviously significant development to the Cadre was therefore not the FT17 but rather that it was the Mechanized Company component. 3 Platoons of Mechanized Infantry were deployed with some new support. The tank was intended as a support for the infantry, and as a result there were questions about whether or not the Mechanized Infantry couldn't be better supported a better armored car, a standard armor car that could also fulfill HQ vehicle roles, or potentially ambulatory roles, such a domestically built ford. For the presiding Artillery branch the limited legs of the Renault was a problem, but less of one compared to its anemic firepower.

    The Mechanized Rifle units continued to rely on a base 13 squad, but in a break from their artillery roots tanks would settle on a five vehicle unit, and this would eventually set the way for Xian's Cavalry Scouts in the form of its armored car units of the late twenties as the ETS continued its work on the experimental tank brigade. The 1920s though even with the development of a domestic automotive industry was not sufficiently large to support this degree of mechanization at the time, and it would only reach fruition in world war 2 with the maturation of the armor division concept (the 1st Armor is converted from 12th Division in the early 30s and undergoes its own teething issues prior to the war; a nominal 41 Armor Division thus in theory should have had an equal number of Tank, MechInf, and Artillery battalions though in practice this was often not true with additional artillery and additional leg infantry due to tank and armored car shortages. This would also insure the distinction between Xian's Cavalry Scouts and its normal mechinf units in post war divisions).
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2023
  9. Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    Note: Somehow or another I have managed to get May 1917's content completely scrambled. Thats like thirty page of content, I will be posting the update on Saturday like normal, but it will be later, however I will also be addressing some of the other content in this Genre while I'm at it.

    Probably at some point in July or later I will add entries in some of my Other alternate History stories to this thread as well as other parts of this AoE's material timeline, for example one of the side stories in this timeline crosses over (using GURPS esque meta / parachronics) with Destroyermen (you can guess why its during the WW2 portion of the timeline). AoE's timeline is plotted into actually I think the latest date I have is the war on terror , but the outline of events goes through the cold war and the Soviet's inevitable collapse due to institutional ossification and inefficiencies.
    OTHER STUFF: ​
    So roughly 18 months ago, I mentioned in the OP that there would be other AH stories, among those

    Dominion of the Baltic Sea (1632) ETA: Sometime this fall, probably.
    Lost By Shards (ISOT) ETA: Probably after Dominion of the Baltic sea.
    Dragonborn (AH CYOA) ETA July or August. I'm currently on a samurai kick and Total War so the first couple of chapters of that will probably up in the coming month.

    [Anyway, standard update probably sometime saturday afternoon]
     
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  10. Threadmarks: May 1917
    Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    May 1917
    Tao Jun looked for the spark in the avaricious boy s eyes, and then seeing the toddler waved imperiously for the jade seal his already large hands swinging impatiently.


    It was not hard to shape the perceptions of her husband with evocations of the three teachings. Could the army s hierarchy or eccentric as factories might have seemed at first be seen as Confucian. Did he not patronize Buddhist sanctuaries and temples. For Daosim was hunting not an escape into nature for a time to get away from the urban civilization and of course who could deny the great feasts and drinking of men of near equal social status.


    So it took shape not as a refutation of ancient tradition but simply a more martial iteration of it. Three teachings in a new form to soothe most of the gentry who might have complained there were always going to stubborn grumblers for their own reasons but their chronic short sightedness could be navigated around.


    And of course the fact was as the old dynasty had declined new armies had grown stronger and now that the former Governor General of zhili Yuan Shikai who had failed to install a new dynasty was dead the provinces teetered towards war and that made an army all the more important

    "When is the gathering?"

    "This afternoon, last train should be the four ten." Allen slid behind the desk with a map folio already partially opened of the lands to the west. "Reinforcements met Bill this morning, and he's going over what we know."

    "There there is further trouble?"

    "Just what Percy mentioned last week." He responded, pushing the map flat. Augustus flailed for the jade piece as it was moved to anchor a map corner, "I don't know what's going on with the Russians, " If that was the only thing bothering the Englishman, "But I've got to grade these as well." He gestured towards the answer books.

    The Confucian Classics exams were a thing of the past. Ended hastily before the Qing had fallen. The wealthy south east, cursed jiangnan amongst, had no purchase in the ongoing procedure, and none of their number were to be among the newly minted graduates.

    "I see," She unfolded the fan and waved it lightly.

    "We promised Cole he'd get first pick of the graduates."

    She continued to wave the fan, "I have seen his black uniforms."

    Her husband looked down at the map, and traced a line of what was, she knew, his southern border..... the line and the lands under heaven he was loath, and circumspect of moving beyond. The lands north including even Shensi that he would defend with deadly force if someone stirred the dragon. "Griswold has been busy with the browings," He paused, "Its a nice graduation gift, an entire class receiving their first garrison guns with their postings."

    "Of course," She agreed from behind her fan. "And the banquet." It was a gentle reminder. One that had been carefully set aside. The graduation were not the successful passage of the exams. It must have seemed alien and strange to have a son go to six months of training, and be fed three times a day. It was easy to associate the shaving of one's head on initial intake as buddhist. One was stepping into a new career and was shorn of hair to join in a 'same year' with ones fellow intake.


    --
    He looked at the canal rather than at the men busy drilling. A thousand years old. The water works had been their even longer really. The canal had been what had allowed the creation of unity in a country the size of the united states it had been the railway before railways. It had allowed goods, and power to spread across China... and now it was a dilapidated, neglected relic of the past just like the old Confucian scholar officials.

    ... and yet, here at the eastern terminus of the ancient silk road was the point from which a rail line stretched through the gansu corridor and to the basin cities along that ancient caravan trade route... and he suspected that wasn't an accident.

    If Bai Lang had been able to take the city he probably would have been impossible to dislodge with the forces the white wolf had had available. It was just too far from the capital, and too many people... it would have been beyond the financial resources that Yuan Shikai had... and not worth the expense.

    ... but those men were both dead now. Yuan shikai, always cognizant of his line's short life, hadn't been particularly old at all... and Bai Lang had not been even middle aged.

    ... And the actual governor of the province was content to live in the modern capital and not here, in the ancient city that had been capital to the Tang dynasty of old. Even in that bygone era it had been a city of a million strong living within the city's walls... and now it was more. Chen didn't care about the city, and everyone knew it, and that meant other regional figures felt the ability to do what they wanted... and that was creating the modern problem.

    Bill had been right to ask if Hu was feeling randy enough to start something... and he might.. and even if he didn't Chen's absence was enough to provoke a perception that Gansu, and Szechwan could traverse the border to deal with their own problems. That was why Bill sat in the south west with a bunch of fighting men, and why little Ma was going over the border to go settle disputes. Jun was right this couldn't last... and she wasn't the only thinking it. Duan Qirui wanted to put a northern coalition together and pound Szechwan... which sounded good when you were banging away from a pulpit, but it ran into the problem Ma was already having.

    How did you catch a bunch of itinerant farmers who were playing at being bandits and local strongmen if you had little idea of who they were or where they were from, or when they were going to be somewhere.

    "They look good out there."

    He glanced away from the canal to Percy. Nakamichi hadn't been able to join them today, and Percy seemed to prefer that... he had been jittery all day... all week since the conversation at the arsenal and those damned papers. "Yep." He replied. First Regiment had split her companies up divided them among Class B recruits nearing the end of their time at the Infantry school to show them field maneuvers. Little Ma had even loaned them a squadron of horse cavalry to participate in the field maneuvers.

    1/1 Followed their normal pattern for Class A battalions. A paper strength of seven hundred fifty riflemen. Three Company, four platoons strong. The attachment of the cavalry squadron was a specialist matter and they'd done things like this but usually by attaching battalion artillery from either Dawes or Phillips respective weights. At basic a rifle squad was 13 men regardless of recruit classification. To that extent the Class B volunteers were the same, same rifle, same uniform, just a notation on their intake paper work, and a indication of which units they'd be posted to.

    "What are they doing?" He squinted as teams of men moved to within a hundred yards of the concrete facades, barbed wire and fox holes.

    "Everyman has been issued two hundred rounds."

    "What for?"

    Allen shrugged, "For the exercise." He replied, "The machine gunners have more, but those recruits are nearing the end of their schooling." The matter of demography reared up on them, as the Hui were brought up, and Percy mentioned the labor strike up north, "That's right,"

    "Going to stand up a Gansu Scouts are you?"

    He wanted to refute the idea, but the truth was, Cole had already thought about it, he saluted Percy with a raised fist, "To be outnumbered? Always, to be outfought? Never." He lowered the hand, "We'll see. I think Cole is too busy with the Gendarmes," With their first officers commissioned in from the first graduates, but we could always put it on paper now, and fill the numbers out."

    A whistle sounded and the men bounded for the fighting positions. "When will they finish training?"

    "The end of the month." He replied, "The truth is we've moved the Infantry school here full time." The name was inaccurate everyone went through it, but that was likely to change. They'd start a pipeline for red legs most likely... and then other specialists, Engineering Corp, Medical... he watched, changing his focus to the now galloping horsemen with the carbine version Gewehr 88s. That was something they were unlikely to move towards... draft animals being one thing, but feeding a horse at war in the Philippines and in Cuba had absurdly expensive, and that was basically already refuted. Cavalry, like the bayonet had been largely declared obsolescent by the crucible of military science. "There are your bayonets." He pointed.

    Obsolescent did not after all mean the same thing as Obsolete. Tipping each of the Mauser pattern rifles were sword bayonets in the pattern of the 1907 Enfield... or the Arisaka bayonets which had provided the inspiration to the brits.

    "Thought you didn't like bayonet fighting?"

    "I'll leave it to Scabs when given the choice," He replied looking at the long sword bayonets of the running rifle squad, "But it does help stop cavalry charges, and we still do that sort of thing in this country." He thought back to 1913 and the following in the months before Europe's war had begun.

    "You're going to adopt a new rifle."

    It wasn't a question. "Eventually, yes." He expected there would be a handful of intermediary designs. 'Iteratives' as Sam called them. There were concerns of economics to factor. They weren't going to go the british dwarf, but the SMLE's eponymous magazine and shortness was a definitive desirable factor in a future rifle, but it had draw backs besides caliber.

    Percy prepared to continue but a collection of men from First Regiment's mortars opened up lobbing three inch stokes down the range, and he shut his mouth with the audible clack like a steel trap.

    "John Allen have you considered things, with the rail to Russia."

    ... because well as Percy was loath to admit... the Russians weren't the only ones having problems... now it was the French too. News he hadn't considered, or just how upset that it might make the British, given that the French had been playing the game with now indication of how bad things were becoming.

    --
    Notes: This notably lacks the Graduation and commissioning sequence for new officers, and the banquet, while also touching on the incoming enlisted men passing through the final wrung of their own training. .

    Again Before World war 1, British and American armies ran on five and six month basic training for enlisted men. (and in war time subsequently, well to use Vietnam as an example Infantry School be shortened to as little as eight weeks) The US army will only move to its 16 week course in about this time frame now that war has been declared, and that is in part due to having to implement the draft and the massive expansion of Fort Jackson and other military installations through the South particularly which exploded in size to forty and five thousand men installations requiring much greater infrastructures..
     
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  11. ATP

    ATP Experienced.

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    To be honest,for good infrantry you do not need more.They do not need to march in perfect columns,but knew how to hit target.200 rounds should be enough.
    P.S do they use handgrenades,too?
     
  12. Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    Not yet. Hand grenades won't come in yet, thats actually a point in adoption that in the original outline where they didn't get the F1 until relatively late, like basically when the US did. yes tMills bombs are thing, but doctrinally at this stage there isn't much for them versus what the original brigade was doing in terms of fire and maneuver, this changes as the warlord era intensifies

    And some of the six month thing is language immersion get everyone talking the same dialect, in addition to hit the two hundred yard target, but also being able to effectively march protracted distances, and then dig fighting positions. (Like in 1917 your average infantryman on completion of basic usually gained twenty pounds versus intake weight, three meals a day and a lot of exercise is good for you, who knew right.) But yeah Xian (and well here Pre-Xian) basic infantry school is basically the length of what was normal before the great war but integrating what a machine gun is, and this is how you attack in conjunction with the machine gun, learning about the field telephone. Its the early years of specialization in modern armies
     
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  13. Threadmarks: May 1917
    Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    May 1917
    The Glory Hotel had a coffee bar specifically set aside on the second floor... it was very Italian with its milanese wood fixtures, and Pavoni steamers frothing milk. It made an excellent meeting place in town both for the officers and for business. It was the whole point, and the war hadn't really changed that.

    As it was he was the second officer to make it in this morning to the somewhat more informal office to handle paperwork just as industry had set the precedent, so to had the RPF followed in... as often those had had to take into account railway concerns, and then brigade, and now the much larger force.

    Lieutenant Guan was too young to even shave but was one of the most promising young officers available. He wasn't an orphan per se, but he had started schooling in the 1913 school year when they had started offering schooling to everyone old enough to start. The proclamation of the Chinese Republic the year before had entailed further education reforms, but that had been more on paper. There were questions about Guan's paternal lineage. He might have had an American, or Frenchman somewhere up there. It wasn't known, and Allen didn't particularly care. The young First Lieutenant had taken a position with the equally young Gendarme. They had been established with only four hundred men, though with more planned. More promised from the next graduating class once it was all said and done.

    Not that their uniform was all that different than 'regular army'. He did however have one of the nine inch daggers that had gotten popular with his branch, and a Browning automatic, the 1911, in a mid height holster of water buffalo on his right side. “The report on Hu Chin-yi,” He said without preamble, referring to one of the lesser warlords of Shensi who had started causing trouble particularly for Chen back in January the previous year, but who was now considered something of a more pressing threat given the deterioration of the situation in Szechwan.

    Fresh coffee appeared before he could unbind the documents and start reading. Careful detail had been considered about Shensi's situation. Back in the fall of 1911 a splinter arm of what would become the first of Bai Lang's rebels had attacked one of their railways. It had only been coincidence that they, and a few dozen men had been riding the train. The bandits, based in Shansi, had had American guns, but so to had his men. It had been that fight which had convinced him to switch over to the 1911 pistols he had bought the year before, and carry those over his New Service. That, and convinced him of the merits of his Model 8... but that attempted raid had solidified the RPF that had been nascent... and now its descendant was a division that would total over fifteen thousand men when the training was done.

    More importantly it was what had convinced him now, in this growing chaos, that you couldn't just leave those more inland provinces alone. With regards to Shansi, and Shensi, “How is the civilian situation?' Sheng Mingchan had gotten the appointment as 'civilian head' the 'Shengzhang' a few scant weeks before he'd started talking with Yan Xishan. He had lasted barely three months. His supposed replacement had no real authority, and hadn't even shown up in favor of trying to send a representative. Allen wasn't concerned about Sun Shiwei and mainly stayed in the capital where he was constantly being sent on errands for other members of the government.

    “Chen Shu-Fan and his retainers are coming at the invitation of the Premier.” The latest development in the spat between the House of Representatives in addition to the President involved the Prime Minister getting increasingly brazen in his threats. Most recently it had meant sending invitations to all of the military governors to come to the capital to express their opinions to parliament. General Chen must have felt pretty secure about the situation at home if he was coming himself.

    Colonel Shan arrived with much the same news, though with additional details. "He is bringing brigade of men with him," He, Shan, was a little older than Allen, probably closer to forty, and preferred to a carry a nine millimeter Mauser semi automatic. There were a number of pushes internally to produce more of them, and in different configurations. Part of that had been the war cutting off new shipments from Germany. The outbreak of which had also slowed aquisition of modern arms for the Beiyang, especially given their precarious finances. It some spoiled other ambitions like General Liu who had been busy playing with the action for rifle designs. That was the sort of thing which greatly interested both Sam, and Bill. It was also of interest to their neighbor to the north. Yan Xishan who was also spending a lot of time in western Zhili of late. Yan Xishan would presumably be attending the military governor conference at the invitation of the Prime Minister... in the hopes that his reputation for being reasonable would mediate the dispute that was on going between President and Prime Minister.

    How that was going to go was anyone's guest. All of that was without even touching the surrealist condition of Mongolia and parts further north, never mind the immediate south or far south.

    Then there was the picture. "Then there is this," He pushed the other image, from another train station, this one in Tietsin.

    “Tell me about him.” He said tapping the picture.

    “Mr Nishihara has been meeting very much," That was frequently, "with the Premier.” Colonel Shan replied. “The crux appears to be the railways in Shangtung.” It could be something, or nothing really. The Japs were fucking obsessed about the German Concession, and yeah with much of China's exports. Well a lot of it went to Japan... it was entirely possibl that Japan was afraid Germany's concessions might go to the French.

    It made more sense, to want more of Manchuria, where most of China's industry was. A lot of that was because it was where the Japanese themselves were investing money. It did mean a bigger control of parts south, greater access towards the north. They could maybe even project force into south China, along with controlling access to Peking. “The Germans are going to lose, I'd guess the French have already sharpened their knives.” He muttered, darkly thinking of the division of the Ottoman empire they had planned the year before with the English. The 'agreement' was something they'd played close even as the Foreign office sent men to stir the arabs up with promises of independence, and for that matter what they intended for Russia their nominal ally. Though whether the useless chicken shits would try and demand all of Germany's overseas possessions for themselves was debatable. IF the reports about French troops mutinying though was accurate, probably not, they wouldn't have the manpower. Of course Britain would probably just as happy to take the German possessions in China for themselves, which might explain Japan's behavior. If the goal was possession, well the Brits might object less if the Japs were already set up and had things in the peninsula running sound.

    For Allen, he had no intention of mentioning it, he'd already gotten word of the stupendously large number of loans the big banks back east had extended. The volume of those loans to the Entente powers was ... absurd, ridiculous, an amount of money that boggled the mind. It had started with England but JP Morgan had underwrote loans to all of them by this point. He was pretty sure that they were long past the point of throwing away good money after bad... but... as wealthy as wall street was... well they could burn greenbacks for lighting.

    The Virginian, President Wilson, who had never liked bankers had of course tried to intervene as those had picked up. He hadn't thought it 'appropriate', whatever that was supposed to mean. He hadn't been very successful.

    The word was the president was playing games with the financial sector, but he was probably out of his depth. That he had been for probably the last year given the scope of those loans. A more assertive president could very well have had the great powers of the old world by the balls at least financially once the war ended, but he doubted Wilson would capitalize on the amount of money that the French and British and the Russians now owed both the New York banks, or the loans the state department had underwrote.

    "Sir?"

    He glanced at Shan, and then to the young lieutenant as he laid out the next quiz question. "What does Duan Qirui keep fighting with the president over?"

    He paused to form a complete answer. "Money for the war participation army."

    "Nishihara has a lot money, and more if he can convince Duan to buy Japanese goods." The Yokohama Specie bank had provided loans before. That was actually part of the problem... he was sure the war had been good to the YSB but ... he doubted it had been that good, and someone had to be backing their extension of credit. "The Russians have purchased a number of Japanese arms themselves," And the English as well. "Good finances, that is a strong financial base are vital to health."

    The President ... and the predominantly southern parliamentarians kept stymying attempts towards the budget, and it wasn't as if they were doing it to just be petulant. The country's finances needed reform, and with Europe on fire China's usual creditors were too busy to really tender any loans, and that was only part of the issue. The 1913 electors unwillingness to budge on the issue was creating a problem. Founded within days of Yuan's death, and chaired by the pony tail general the 'Association of Provincial Governors' was a gathering of twelve northern provinces and representing a slew of Beiyang officers in it who wanted ... bluntly Bismarkian style parliamentian procedures. That was to say they wanted Parliament to pass a military budget to address the current crisis, and then parliament to shut up and let the army handle their own job without any interference. They had gathered in Tietsin to hold another conference to presumably reiterate restrictions on parliament.

    "There is also the matter of the western commanderies also." In Shan's use of the archaic it took a minute to parse, but he assumed that the Colonel meant Gansu, or the Ma Clique, "There is the matter of the Goluk tribesmen, and the chaos in the south." Meaning thereby spillover from Szechwan, which was probably the real problem lay given the southern province's great population.


    He bit down a snide comment about the railway situation, "We have a conference of our own coming up, get something in writing and run it up the chain to Cole when he gets back," from his own trip to Tietsin, "And we'll see what can be done about the south." The truth was going to make all of that more complex and troublesome than what would have been simple. What should have been plans to redeploy troops back along the southern frontier to deter bandits from Szechwan was forced to contend with problems in the east as of course in an astounding turn of bad luck and timing the government in Peking dissolved and in short order a rapid number of poor political choices made everything in China that much worse.
    --
    Notes: the Tibetans, as already mentioned with the whole bow anecdote had been enduring 'significant' bandit raids from the east out of Sichuan province from 1914 at the latest during Bai Lang's pivot west (or from associated other bandits) and by that point Chinese central authority in the provinces was negligible. Infighting inside of Tibet had also already begun by this poitn (again see disintegration of central authority), but by 1917 you had groups coming west from Sichuan, as well as Ma troops (culminating OTL in the conflicts in the 30s) getting involved ostensibly to fight said Sichuan bandits but also pretty much everyone else.

    This might have been more important to a Ma aligned or friendly faction (pre-xian) if not for Li and Duan and the Zhang Xun completely upending the Zhili order of the day by well, Li convinces Duan to resign, realizes too late that all of the beiyang governors are already in Tietsin when Duan leaves capital, and invits Zhang to 'mediate'. Well, then cue Manchu Restoration of 1917, which results in Li giving Duan his job back before Li himself quits the presidency and runs to Tietsin.
     
  14. Threadmarks: May 1917
    Imperator Pax

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    May 1917
    --
    The weekend had passed without much incident, at least locally, but faced with ... well the official entry of the United States to the war the Cadre had had to turn to ties back home. Though they had talked about it off and on since the very moment it had dawned on them that there would be no swift victory in the European conflict the prospect of US entry had taken second seat as time and again Wilson had managed to avoid entry into of back home. The writing had been on the wall, and even as the limestone barracks like Fort Wayne, had continued to take shape in Xian in 1914, the four storey buildings growing up in the old Manchu town, there had been other discussions.


    There was a, perhaps expatriate was not the correct term, but pool of skilled American labor that had been organized and dispatched specifically because the old Prussian Rail and Steel magnate opposed conscription... and with the war now at the states there were other matters. Edenborn was right in so far as mathematically the US was so much more economically productive than Grmany that the US really had nothing to fear... on the other... the German Navy were getting too big for their britches... and on top of that there was the whole telegram business. Sometimes you did just need to lay the other guy out, and whether or not Edenborn wanted to hear that Allen had come to the conclusion that complaining about the war wasn't going to do anything. They needed to look at what could be done with what they had available.

    ... and of course there wasn't much reason to complain about the war. In terms of economic impact their nascent heavy industies had done well as British consumption had increased, and English, and French, and that was part of the problem they needed to look forward to when the war was over rather than banking on everything continuing the way they were. They had already had the discussion, hell they'd had to discussion a ways back now.

    ... what they hadn't banked on was the bureaucracy of it all. Allen glanced up from his pen and papers that were effectively the government for fifty miles on either side wherever his rails stretched. He licked his fingers and separated a second sheet from the page on top of it. Colonel Shang was still sitting there. The problem with bureacracy was when someone made a mistake it needed to b e caught early... they were going to have to make changes.

    It only happened in English paper work. The Character 'Shang' and the Character 'Shan' were different, but somebody had added a 'G' at some point and them kept making the mistake confusing the two colonels. Hell, with the situation the way it was they were going to have more of this problem. It was a wonder they didn't have two or three colonels who didn't have the same surname by this point. They were lucky here because Colonel Shan was an older, than Allen, Manchu, where as Colonel Shang, who was younger, and that both were Zhili natives.

    The younger man decided to break the silence, probably had been stewing on it for a while. "Sir?"

    "I need to post you with some of Dawes's artillery, probably elements of the second Battalion of his brigade, if not the whole thing." He remarked, the whole battalion of 15cm Krupps. "They're new guns, fresh recruits. The situation in Szechwan is deteriorating. I need you to replace Bill's command post," Since McCulloch was in town right now, "and the temporary men there." They were going to have do something about the paperwork. Last name by itself wasn't going to cut it. Adding Chinese Characters wouldn't do it. They'd need to list Surname yes, but then what... proably have to include given name. "There is a not insubstantial chance you will see combat, but you are not to be provoked into going over the border. The last thing we can afford is trying to trundle through Szechwan and be lead around by our collective noses." Like Black Jack had had done to him with chasing ole Pancho around Mexico. In truth the Krupps were intended more as a deterrent against the bandits coming over the border.

    The camp was already there, and there had been more than one struggle and skirmish since last year, which had been what merited Bill going in the first place. "I was under the impression that a battalion to battalion linkage was infeasible."

    "It is, or it will be once our infantry finishes training." And infantry was the easiest thing to train to any degree. "For now you can take second battalion and whatever Dawes has ready, and start staging them at the rail." Shan, and Shang both would make general. It was the no pun intended general consensus. There would be differing specialties and as the army grew those specialties could be used, but they needed the experience, even if it meant sending a colonel to command a battalion on the frontier... well if that was what it took. "As important as coordinating with the red legs is, there is one other matter. The Bashan Operations Area, you'll be responsible for the new Radio transmitter" The Radio Telegraphy system probably not ready, it would have been one thing if they'd been at sea, but that hundred fifty distance might be pushing it. "The tower is a priority." Even though given the phone lines were probably more practical and useful.

    --
    Ma Anliang's problems were going to have to wait Percy had ambushed them at morning coffee as the Friday shift of the mill had started.

    As it was, now that it was ten o'clock, Dawes looked like he was having trouble processing what he'd been told, and he wasn't the only one, but all the same the older man asked for clarification, "The French are having what?" He finally managed still sounding flabbergasted.

    "Apparently Nievelle ordered an attack, and the order was refused." He shook his head at it, and there were round of looks and breaks among the cadre, "We don't know much more than that," The French were probably terrified that if it spread they'd end up with a coup on their hands, "But that isn't the issue."

    "Does your daddy know?" Dawes grunted in reply, and shook his head, "How the hell are the states gonna take the french mutinying?"

    There was some grumbling in agreement at the prospect.. "I assume the French are attempting to censor it from getting out," Which fat lot of good if it had already hit the diplomatic cables and was coming in through London as well as Geneva... so Lansing probably knew, "I'd guess, the states will follow suit, the British having a noose around the press's neck and all."

    "The Legation has been instructed," He paused, "The British Foreign Office has been instructed to investigate any and all possibilities, however remote to keep the war effort moving forward. That seems to include this business Duan is doing with Nishihara related to funding the WPA." Or at least it was looking like Alston was turning a blind eye to the loans and whistling dixie so that Duan could furnish a new more modern force to fight bosche.

    There was a snort at that from two rows back, "Shit, Stevens is good for an old man. He knows the trade, but they're expecting god's own damned work if they expect the Trans-siberian to be overhauled that fast."

    "The line should be enough to get troops from Vladivostok to the Russian heartland." There was a pause, "The bigger problem is that it'd be like trying to move troops the opposite direction of during the Russians throwing down with the Japs." Another engineer remarked. "It'll be slow but I reckon thats engines and bridges as much as anything."

    But without surveying the T-S they couldn't be sure. Any kind of line work would be the sort of thing a competent engineer would want months to go over before he started on, and Stevens was hidebound by tradition, and the policy that had let him build the Transcontinental back home. "There ain't no way," Another drawled propping one boot forward and leaned to stand, "Stevens won't get anything done this year, he'll need to survey, and that'll take all summer even if he gets in this month." And that wasn't even dealing with the Trans Siberian was a lot more prone to ice and snow than the transcontinental. "Has he even left?" [The States.]

    "He boarded a ship in San Francisco, the cable says he means to start by the end of the month after he lands in Vladivostok." He replied answering the older man's question. This was turning into herding cats, "and there is no telling what condition the rail is in," But the general consensus out of the British was probably abysmal given all the delays in the rail. Especially if they wanted to open a 'southern route'.

    It was a harebrained scheme. It smacked of desperation. "The only reason this is even a possibility is because the Xian Line runs through the corridor."

    "And probably because it means the Ma are actually able to deliver their taxes to Peking regularly." That couldn't be discounted either, because it showed the Great Western was safe, and it was reliable for transport. If you could ferry taxes that were then accounted for by the British commission to transfer to the government in Peking to run the government... then British were probably confident that it was safe enough to use it to transport vital war materiel if it could be connected to Russian holdings in Central Asia.

    That was the problem because the limiting factor wasn't the rails. It was rolling stock, it was engines, and so on. There was a pipeline of supply issues that simply couldn't be addressed just by running to the Transcaspian line at Taskhent. Putting down a line through Fergana from Kashgar was probably possible it was something like five hundred miles, unless they had to make a major detour, but it would exasperate the existing western line's material deficiency that they hadn't expected to be fixed for another year on the main thoroughfare.

    It wasn't a simple vote either, "If the British are willing to toss the Siberian to Wilson, then they'll damn sure want Washington to exert pressure."

    "Maybe they can talk Washington into loaning them the money to pay for the line then." At least that got a couple of laughs, but that was likely to cause more problems than it might fix, and it left things hanging there. Kato hadn't even managed to make it through 1915 given all the shake ups but that the Doshikai would balk was pretty much a given.
    --
    Notes: The next segment will get us through May 1917, again in part due to technical issues where this chapter (May 1917) got the gremlins and I had to piece together and reshuffle things and I've got several sets of notes I need to go through. Notably for this there is a missing scene here that would have taken place in between these two, and those fragments which didn't get turned into weird characters, and the notes may be reused in June '17, but its largely slice of life, day to day, rather than the political big picture stuff of people watching the war and assuming things that are closer to home are fine, or in this case watching the expected trouble spot, and as we will see in the conclusion how frayed the situation in Peking had deteriorated.

    This is roughly the week, in addition to Nieville getting the boot, the British call of their offensive on the hindenburg line in Arras, and thats relevant to other concerns of the FSO.
     
  15. ATP

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    When times come,take from Krupp new schells/C ammo/ and barrels.Thanks to better ammo and longer barrels for 105 and 150mm howitzers and 77 and 105mm guns,range was better even to 40%.
    And you still could produce the same guns.
     
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  16. Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    Yep, pretty much what I was already thinking, I'd even looked to where Bofors has or should have the liscening by the twenties cause versailles... though I suppose technically you could rules lawyer and either do that go through switzerland or say 'this is not a post war new thing, we were already contractually enjoined', but Krupp's subsidaries in Sweden or switzerland struck me as the best partner justification during outlining
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
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  17. ATP

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    Your China is allied with England,right? in OTL when germans gave to Allies 54.415 guns and barrels,most was destroyed,but some keep but allied armies.
    If your army count as allied army,you could simply get some of Krupp guns.In that case,you do not even need paid for it.


    Dunno,if it is politically possible.

    P.S Poland wonted cruisers and destroyers from A-H and russian navies - we do not get it,but your China maybe could get more.

    P.S.S
    to made production cheaper,Krupp produced few guns on the same chasis - for example,150mm howitzer and 105mm gun.You could do the same.
    And 77mm gun with longer barrel/35 calibers/ would be good for medium tanks in future.
     
  18. Imperator Pax

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    Its not immediately politically possible (The 1919 arms embargo was something John Jordan really pushed and he managed to get HM Government to agree which proved to be a major headache in the FSO to get around even though there were members who wanted to bin the thing as early as the following year) and this will show up with ties to Vickers as well as with airplanes, (Historically what the English affiliated northern warlords did anyway in what they procured from England). So of England's surplus will filter into Southern Russia when we get to there during the whole post 1919 fiasco but thats a whole other mess in the transcaspian

    Xian doesn't really have a coastal access to the Bohai sea until really after ww2 ends in Europe, its very much a continental interior state until 44-45 so its mostly gunboats navy wise.

    The general plan yeah the Model 1932 and 35 are going to be 77mm initially as basically mobile gun platforms for infantry support until you actually AP ballistic fill, or HV rounds, and the 37 tank is basically an armored howitzer fitting a 15cm krupp on an electric driven turret.because again the strategic drive for this is, how do you support infantry, and Xian's answer is well tanks are part of the Artillery service (as opposed to cavalry), doctrine dictates put HE on target and quickly
     
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  19. Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    The following picture is of the historic barracks at Ft Wayne in Detroit, it was used to house troops cycling to the Philippines in particular and is the basis for Xian's own barracks established in 1914 referenced in the previous section.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. ATP

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    Krupp quality get worst at the end of the war/in 1917 they lost about 2000 guns to enemy fire,when 1000 just blown up/ ,so maybe it would be better if you take only plans of new versions of guns,new ammo and maybe few new barrels and schells.
    And,if tanks would be part of artillery,why not made something like italian Semovente? it certainly would be cheaper.And still enough for Japan so called,heh,heh,medium tanks.
     
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  21. Imperator Pax

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    The war time decline is principally (as I understand it) a result of ersatz manufacturing / defects in the steel, which doesn't seem to be a design problem (indeed it was probably a combination of late war ammo quality and manufacturing in the steel causing the barrel ruptures) hence Bofors not having that problem when they manufactured 1923 guns because they used locally made ammunition and steel. (which that had been Bofors policy for almost forty years by that point... though admittedly Swedish government did probably nudge them to using local steel because of the post war recession due to the bottom falling out of steel manufacturing also)

    The issue with the semovente is its cheaper but welded hulls offer significant numbers of other advantages, and turrets are yes more expensive but do offer other advantages. certainly a 3Inch semovente equivalent would have its uses but its a combination of the elevation requirement and the traverse requirement (and you see this trend in story with the artillery moving to full 360 traverse universal mounts), do assault guns make sense in a war time expediency concept yes, absolutely but things like the StuG and Semovente would be unlikely to show up or be accepted before '38 (as an alternate example of this phenomenon in the military, the British Army repeatedly scoffed at the idea of SMGs, or before that the French scoffed at the idea of LMGs in ww1 up until they realized actually we do want those. War tends to get things approved because 'last war syndrome' has a cost. people are stuck fighting the last war until they figure out what changed.)

    As for the Japanese tanks, yeah when we get there, that is also ironically related to metallurgical wartime conservation, Japan made the conscious plan to not rely on steel that required imports, so you still had tanks using iron armor or steels that were much heavier than they should have been versus the protection they actually offered. I'm gonna stop there because otherwise I'd have to go on for a while. Actually one of the changes we will see in the pacific theater is more tank conflict. Manchuria /Manchukuo ends up fielding its own tanks (or more accurately fields more tanks than it did historically) because they're domestic production but more than that would be spoilers for 30s and 40s.
     
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  22. ATP

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    Yes,there were good designs.And allies suffered becouse of low quality,too.Another reason to take only plans and maybe few prototypes - which should be possible ,becouse you would be allied country here,and allied countyries could take german guns.

    You have point about Semovente.In Poland we made few prototypes of tank destroyed on tankette chasis,but never mass produced them.
    And never considered making tank destroyer with 75mm gun instead of/good ones/ light tanks.

    I thought how your tanks with 77/35 gun would change tank warfare - and,i think,that:
    1.Japan would made Type 3 in 1940 or 1941,Type 4 in 1943/44.Maybe start making Type 5,too.
    And many tank destroyers with 75 or 80mm guns.
    Resuly - british in Burma,american on Pacyfic,soviets,your chineese - they would all have taughter fight then in OTL.
    Of course,Japan would still lost.

    2.France made prototype of Char 1G with 75mm long barrel gun in turret and slope armour - now,they would mass produce it,and germans would copy it.Or,at least,start working on Panther year earlier.
    France would still fall

    3.Germans would use Pz4 with 75/35 gun,so they could fight T.33.76,and made Tigers and Panthers earlier.Maybe copy french tanks,too_Or made czech medium tank with 75mm guns - there were few prototypes in OTL.
    Result - better in fighting soviets,Turkey could join them,they would certainly take more territory including Baku which would slow soviets.
    They would stil lost,but soviets would take less.Free Hungary,Yugoslavia,maybe even Czech.
    No Poland,sadly,my country would be taken anyway.

    4.British tank sucked in OTL,becouse brits was stupid.So,nothing change there.

    5.Italian tanks sucked becouse italian was too proud - they could mass produce PZ3 in 1942,or Pz4 in 1943,but nooo,they must wait for itaian tanks.Which was ready for their capitulation/P.40/

    6.Hungarian tanks sucked - maybe here they would be better,if they made Turan tanks from the start with long 75mm gun.

    7.USA tanks sucked,becouse they want produce more - maybe this time they would start produce Pershings earlier.

    8.Soviets - they could introduce T.43 in 1941,if not - notching changed.

    Your China - they could face T.34.76 with their 77/35 gun,but for T.34.85 you need more dakka.Maybe buy AA 80mm Bofors and use later for medium tank?

    All in all - world woud be more bloody,soviets would enslave less countries,but unfortunatelly,Poand still would be among enslaved.
    Other then that - no changes,except better tanks in the end of war for everybody except british.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2022
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  23. Index: Dominion of the Baltic Sea Ring of Fire series Prologue
    Imperator Pax

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    Dominion of the Baltic Sea
    Ring of Fire series
    Prologue

    He looked at the mirror having wiped the steam clear, and glanced at the remnants of the shaving soap, and inhaled the . Was it age? Was it the fact his... that he had no basis to build off of plan for... because right now he looked more tired and worn down than any memory of any deployment, or training period that he could remember.

    ... and that wouldn't do.

    He remembered the gunshots, and the recoil, not so much the muzzle flash. Had one of the double taps been high?... steel and padding underneath might have possibly stopped a slow moving forty five ball. They had all dropped. He had been pretty sure he had hit every one of them.

    He might have considered missed one of them entirely but the deputy responding afterward had reported a blood trail... admittedly like he was talking about a wound deer or coyote. It had been ... years since he'd fired a gun in anger.

    The notion of failure at the range was unacceptable.

    Time travel, parachronics, alternate timeline whatever it was there was almost four hundred years difference between their contemporary modern lives... and whenever exactly this was. Wherever exactly this was.

    He had to start with what they knew. It was the early 17th century. This was clearly northern germany from where the stars were, it was probably spring... maybe early summer. He figured from the fauna it was probably between April and June, cut the middle and guess it was probably May, but even hedging he wasn't sure what difference it made... it didn't matter so long as they could keep the lights running, but it would matter because they were going to have to start planting.

    He thought about the grading rubrics for the end of term work. It would have been convenient if they had just jumped from May to May... at least purely from a thinking and keeping track of time perspective... how exactly were they supposed to set the computers, the clocks and calendars in this mess. That settled his thoughts. Industrial timekeeping had been perhaps the definitive cultural shift, in terms of norms, that had come with the industrial period.

    He looked at the face looking back in the mirror and turned the faucet back on, watched his face again, and started deciding what he needed to wear today. He thought of what his friends would wear, and made a conscious choice not to go too far, overdo it. Overcompensate. Cammies, battle rattle, were unnecessary... formal attire was equally out... dress like it was a normal day at the office... that might be best.

    Viktor Lucius Gunther examined the tired face looking back him in the mirror. High cheek bones gave him a somewhat long face. The blemishes were there, scratches knicks, the scars of almost twenty years across the middle east, and the African sun... not really freckles though besides dusting across his nose, especially compared to his younger siblings.

    "Bro, Luke." Maybourne banged on the door to the master bedroom. "Hey."

    He tossed the monogrammed hand towel into the basin, and made for the door. "Walt." The other man glanced at the remnants of the soap. "What is it?" He kept his voice flat, but he would have preferred to finish brooding and then wiping the rest off of his face.... and it was brooding... there wasn't a better word for it because he had no idea what the fuck was going on.

    "Mikey been by?" Michael Stewart another professor at the university, but it was early for house calls wasn't it. "He was supposed to come by, but his car ain't here."

    "Did you try his cellphone," He asked more on reflex than anything... because of course why wouldn't you call him."

    "Fucking shit isn't working. Like, I mean," He growled, "Like its the fucking." Maybourne stopped. "Like," He started to repeat himself frustration evident, "We've got some power, but-"

    "The Network is overloading?" He guessed.

    "That fucking shit man." Walter agreed, "And Mikey was supposed to come over, but we've got limitted power, some of the traffic lights aren't working blackouts rolling through its like we're back in fucking Iraq." He spat.

    He hoped that wasn't the case. With a shake of his head he turned around closed the door and went back to finish washing off the soap and getting dressed. After throwing on a red polo shirt that was nothing approaching tactical in character and enduring Maybourne's ribbing over how he still wore or followed the uniform code of the private school three generations of their families had attended they moved down the hall to the great room of the three storey home.

    He explained, as Walter had probably already surmised that he hadn't seen the fellow doctor. If the traffic lights weren't working Michael was probably still stuck on the other side of the county. "Traffic is bad I take it."

    "Fuck, yeah, chickens with their fucking heads cut off." Maybourne leaned back on the couch, stretched against the tension of his LBT plate carrier. "The sheriff is trying to calm everyone down."

    He raised an eyebrow, but didn't immediately respond. He knew where this was going. The current sheriff had for all intents and purposes been anointed into the position. That was how things went. The old man had retired or more correctly he supposed abdicated in favor of taking a seat in the state legislature in order to prepare the groundwork to make a run for the governor's mansion. There were two distinct taxes bases two political forces at work in the county.

    There was the urban city, ignore the smaller towns of the county, and then of course there was the county's landed gentry. The old families, and the money they represented. The land they represented, and the investments. The county tax base reflected this. The sheriff's department was a county level law enforcement organization that had been modernizing along the lines of standards more in line with the highway patrol or state police apparatus since Lloyd Harris had really been undersheriff, before Viktor had been born... and of course during Lloyd Harris's tenure as sheriff ... 9-11 had occurred... the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq had followed. 'Modernization' had continued. More than a decade had gone by. It was economics. The county level taxes supported the sheriff's department and much of course had always been the case it represented the tax base of rural land holders.

    "What the city doing?" Maybourne issued a string of invectives deriding the situation, and lack of direction. "What's Oliver doing?"

    "I half expected his ass to be over here," Maybourne replied shaking his head. "I haven't seen him since last night." It was about nine o'clock in the morning now. "I guess if he's not here, he'd be with his uncle. What do you fucking think about this shit?"

    He wondered what was going on with the power first and foremost... most, well maybe not all of the county should have been still running off electricity from the dam built by the TVA back in the thirties... unless they were pulling from natural gas... which... now that he thought about it was in the next county. "I don't know. I'm still finding my sea legs here."

    "We got sent to renfaire land, this fucking shit man." Maybourne shook his head. "Are we really back in the middle ages?"

    The renaissance... if you really wanted to use that outdated archaic term... he mused. "The early modern period, we're somewhere in northern Germany." There were as Maybourne summarized more of those fucking clowns to deal with... the sheriff, and sheriff emeritus he supposed, wanted them dealt with for national security. The use of the phrase had probably simply been a slip, but he supposed it didn't matter... it was close enough... every one got the fucking idea.



    --
    Notes: this is an old project... I think it started back in 2014. Its a combination of one of my, or using one of my techno thriller stories setting and characters that I never really went anywhere mixed with 1632. The ISOT 'story' that resulted is quite large, and I was a little against putting here originally.

    This is May 1628 within basically a day of the ISOT dropping the up timers into north germany, and that means its basically three years before Grantville gets the same treatment. One thing about the uptimers here, is that they come from a timeline where COVID is not a thing, Trump was never elected, and the Russians didn't invade Crimea in that year (because while the ISOT 'crossover' for this timeline started in 2014 the technothriller story of mine is from before that, so well before COVID and so on.)

    Like in the 'Technothriller Timeline' these people are from Biden is elected president after Obama... becaue I assumed that was what was going to happen, that Biden as VP would run, and that ... Cruz would probably be the republican nominee (IIRC, that was a lifetime ago). Anyway yeah not a one for one for our twenty first century. Its not that important. Suffice to say this is 20 minutes into the future from 2014, thrown back to the late 1620s. Over the next ... weekish... I will probably toss the first couple of pieces in this segment over here covering basically the first 48 hours of the ISOT timeline which will entail doing some revisions to the old versions that are over in the misc thread.


    As an aside.... I'm looking forward to how two different authors from two different branches of service handles the clusterfuck of the Russia do dumb shit in their next ripped from the headlines novels, but that is probably a matter for some other time.

    In terms of this, I'm probably going to work through 28's events until winter, and then the summer of 29 eventually before moving towards the second ring of fire happening per canon in the spring of 31 [Where Grantville is ISOT into Thuringia]
     
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  24. Threadmarks: May 1917 Conclusion
    Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    May 1917
    Conclusion

    The Friday paper on events down south in a way heralded a sign of what was to come but it was largely missed too. Never mind Shang bringing up Ma's problems further west. The headlines from Chunking though had almost been missed. Units of the Yunnan and Szechwan armies had gotten into it at the end of the previous month. That by itself wouldn't have surprising. After Tsai O's death, and of course the precarious situation of finances, there had been an increasing number of border skirmishes since the new year and if not for the escalation to artillery it would have not even merited a by line.

    Instead six hundred homes were gone... three thousand townsfolk were dead from the shelling or the fire... and that warranted making it to the papers. It was an omen of what was coming, but it was just a paper headline that happened to make it out on the wire from Chunking. In fact the only reason he was even rereading the paper was because of the British mission in the treaty port had insured that word had gotten out, and back to Tietsin.

    "Hewlett's a level headed fella, so I reckon he counted." Bill remarked. The Texan dwarfed Percy who looked even worse than he had yesterday.

    "Quite right." The Englishman replied, looking briefly the picture of the debris plastered across the front, "He was right there in the thick of it of course." Hewlett was the British consul attached to the Treaty Port of Chunking and it had fallen to him to organize the red cross and other relief works. In Szechwan, and the region being the only fellow who wasn't likely to be shot at meant you got that kind of responsibility. "I wish we could spare him the men he's asked for."

    There were conflicting reports about Hewlett's request for a detachment of Royal Marines, but realistically the consul should have known any more troops would be out of the question. The consensus was Szechwan was going to get worse, the only thing that made this sand out was the use of artillery in the fighting... or maybe its indiscriminate use in the shelling.

    It wasn't the real point of the meeting. "What about Peking?"

    "We didn't tell him to stir up a riot." Percy's sheer defensiveness suggested that as it happened they might have at least nudged Duan to be a bit more aggressive... aggressive enough that this might have been the logical outcome. Not that Yuan hadn't done the same thing when he'd been alive, and Yuan's success in getting parliament to agree to things with a mob of supporters outside had probably contributed.

    ... and now Peking seemed like a tinderbox... and of course this was just the beginning of what was to come. "What about the situation there?"

    "The Prime minister's supporters are still in the streets, the police are refusing to disband the gathering," And likely because the Zhili Guards weren't going to help them, even assuming the Peking Police Force even wanted to disband the rally, "President Li, and the Parliament were able to leave and go home but if they're still there Monday there is no telling how things will go from there."

    Bill shook his head, and the big man crossed his arms tapping his boot, impatiently as he pondered loudly for a minute before deciding to ask a question, "Percy ain't want you to take this wrong way," He twanged, "but if you're sure you need troops, why don't you ask the Japanese?"

    Allen could guess, but he was not going to take the question away. Percy could give his own answer, especially as the Englishman started to bristle. "Well you don't think we didn't try? In 1914, and 1915. The Japanese are quick to tell us they're our allies, and that they'll send ships, even sell arms, but troops in Europe? They won't hear of it, they're still sore over the war with the Russians," And probably the Triple Intervention, but Allen kept mum, "They simply won't hear of sending their troops to France, and the French asked," Demanded was a better word from the conversations of 1914. Whatever the case though Percy continued, "If we could have Japanese troop that would help, but they're unwilling, Duan Qirui is willing," His face scrunched and he shook, "And with the Russians now, our latest problems with the war." There was desperation in his voice.
    --
    Even if on Monday you had asked he had doubted Li would go through with... and it was admittedly a little surprising that Duan was going along with it. He'd resigned as Prime Minister and stated he would leave the capital... and in the end that was the signal.

    The telegrams started to circulate in public not long after that. The circulars were really nothing new though. It wasn't as if Sun's boys hadn't done the same trick to express their displeasure... the difference was when brigade and division commanders started advocating for the lot, and then them having their regimental commanders start talking about 'bandit suppression' and 'punishing the southern criminals' or whatever it was this week. It was all for internal consumption of course, we don't like those people from that province sort of rhetoric... the problem was it was now exploding.

    Percy's initial riot comment had been hyperbole... but now it really wasn't. Duan leaving looked like someone had doused the whole stack with kerosene and was playing with matches. "I don't like this."

    Allen stopped massaging his temples and glanced at Bert who was reaching for another pastry, "I don't think anyone likes this." He replied.

    The man shrugged and took another lemon tart. "Just saying." He replied after a bite. He swallowed, "And isn't Ma Hongkui going into Tibet too now... that's a disaster." Disaster was probably overstating things, but they weren't sure how much word had gotten back to Young Ma, the Old Ma certainly knew but they hadn't been able to get a message to Hongkui, or at least confirm that he'd gotten it.

    It was bad, but the needed to focus on the issue to the east.

    Out of a population of about eighteen million some twelve percent had been enjoined to fight under old glory. Over two million men. The bloodiest war the United States had ever fault. The Taiping Rebellion had left enough people dead that it would have swallowed the whole country in the bodies... but on the size of the armies the ancient kingdom hadn't been anywhere near proportional to the states... and the Taipings had fielded almost as many men as the Union.

    Li had stumbled into a situation that looked likely to turn into a fight he wasn't ready for. ... and that would be a disaster for everyone. There were seven hundred thousand men estimated to be under arms across provincial and the national ministries, mostly due to a swelling in recruitment o fill out existing on paper formations, Allen suspected, but it didn't matter.

    Bert pressed his hands on the table straightening, which given who all was sitting around him did little but emphasize how much shorter he was. "Are they going to fight?"

    John Paul snorted, "Who does Li even have in his corner?" He muttered derisively. Someone pointed out he probably had the Navy, the so called 'Fukien clique', which was promptly ignored of course by the bulk of Army veterans among the Cadre. "And what's to stop Yunnan from declaring its independence again," There were some other rumbles, of speculation over which formations in the south might side with Li over just doing that.

    He was looking at the rail map, the real one. Not what had been proposed but hadn't been completed. It didn't matter that the Hankow line from Beijing had supposed to have run all the way south to Canton, but only the northern half was real. It really ran from Peking to Wuchang, but the Brits had barely managed any progress with the war one.

    Someone caught his look at the 'three cities' nestled on the Yangtze.

    When the time had come to put Bai lang down First Regiment had deployed as a square. Four battalions supplemented with artillery, and machine guns. "Schedule pistol practice for the men."

    "The railway?"

    "You think?"

    "If the south has any chance of anything they had to have figured that's what the lifeblood of the country flows on." Dawes snapped. "You can't move artillery with the canals in their condition," His parochialism showing, "Leg infantry is possible but not practical, not modern infantry."

    Zhengzhou.

    The city, and rail hub that most of their industrial products produced here, and in Shensi more broadly flowed up into Zhili to meet their other production goods before the ports of the north for export overseas. It was simply a matter of geography.

    "They can't cut the rails."

    The response from down the table seemed optimistic.

    There were some agreements.

    "This isn't the eighteen nineties there are telegraph, and telephone lines staffed at all hours." Someone concurred, "Even if you took one station you couldn't stop them or one of the others from broadcasting a warning."

    True. The Qing had constantly quibbled over the telegraph. A never ending waffling over use or don't use or use it sometimes and not others. Their failures often to their detriment... but the Wu Wei corp during the Boxer rebellion had known to take the telegrams and cut them, and Yuan Shikai had known to take the offices in his province and declare his opposition to the boxers. Not that Yuan hadn't always considered the boxers to be little more than bandits in the first place.

    The rail guards already had shotguns of course, but a railway station wasn't built for rifles. There just wasn't space for a 98, never mind putting a sword on the end of it. They needed something else... there just weren't enough Remingtons and Winchesters to go around. Buying more from the states hadn't been an option, and production off of their FN license for the prior hadn't been a priority.

    "That's gonna be a headache." Referring to the cartridges matter. Moving the conservation from one matter to kicking it down the road, but it was true. Every officer was required a pistol... and though they did not field horse cavalry most NCOs owned pistols and a handful of various enlisted were issued them. That made a gamut of cartridges. The mausers, and forty five government predominated, but they hadn't had the time prioritize that either, just as they hadn't focused on a universal short service rifle despite it being old hat now.

    Ice could have rimed on Cole's gaze, "I have a solution to that. We don't know for sure Li will do anything, he could balk at any minute. Let me take 1st Battalion. They need a good ruck besides, and set them into the garrison. Gendarmes in place if something happens you can come relieve us. Not saying you shouldn't practice, but its 1912 anymore, and there are ways more men under the colors now."

    The battalion had been the most basic unit by which the Qing had organized units of men. They weren't copying that, but as an organizational formation it was the right size. The realization in the Philippines had been maneuver and engagement... though crediting the philipines may have missed the lessons on the high plains. Still Squads built platoons, built companies. You engaged the enemy, and you maneuvered. You held choice ground and broke the attacker from strong defenses. You broke defenses by specialization. Head on frontal assaults could work but they cost lives. He'd seen that enough in 04 and 05.

    So of course things shifted. Pieces were moved, and a company continued to turn more from a business into a government. Expansions drafted, equipment talked about, men considered, and even though the initial impetus was the matter of keeping lines to ports open and goods flowing... what was coming was a conflict that would change things in completely different ways than expected. Li turned out to just be the inciting factor, not a principle player in the issue at hand. Duan stood on one side, so their expectations had been half right. Another small summer war was right around the corner, but it was another crack in the dike, one more compromise to the structural integrity of the whole system.
     
  25. ATP

    ATP Experienced.

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    1.Ring of Fire - good series,althought dude is victim of protestant propaganda.He showed Inquisition as monsters,when in fact they were better then protestants in those times.
    And knew little about Poland - winged hussarls in those times were not suicidal idiots.And could pierce few persons with one kopia,so swedish king would dei there.
    Back to story - either your town have enough rifles and ammo/and could produce ammo/ or not.
    In first case they would survive,in second get burned.

    China - usual bloody pieces of life.
     
  26. Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    Yeah, as I've made that comment before, Flint [edit okay failed is harsh, flunked ] out of grad school [couldn't hack it, whatever you wanted to call it proved that he could do the work, etc, etc.], and doesn't (and has repeatedly shown, he doesn't know how to do research). And like Martin mostly relies on pop culture history rather than, frankly church law was pretty much the best way to get a fair trial before basically the 1800s start.

    As for the ISOT in question, this is pointedly one of the features of the story happening, is that yes, the university has sufficient base to make ammunition ... in point of fact I think one of the first things that comes up in the long term planning is handling wet primer manufacturing.

    Like 1632 has a great premise, but it is spoiled by the problems of the original author, and the fact that even twenty years on, we somehow have only managed to get to what 1638 in terms of chronology? In this timeline, this project that being stuck trying to cram everything in a year is not an issue.

    EDIT: Now I feel like an asshole Flint's obit hit today.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
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  27. ATP

    ATP Experienced.

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    Inquisition was first institution which really try to found truth,almost not use torture,and prisoners have defenders.
    Soething about other prisoners could only dream.

    For example,in Magdeburg law they do not seek truth,only slighty burn prisoner.If he still said that he is innicent after 5 times,he was send home as innocent.And it was used by both protestants and catholics.
    Please continue - i really want to see how your SI would rule world.Well,at least part of it.
    About Martin - he is worst,instead of following pop culture he made lame parodies of it.Mongols ,Vikings and real knights would eat Dothraki,ironborn and westeros nobles for breakfast.
     
  28. Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    The interesting thing, is that culturally vikings, the normans under rollo within the subsequent generation or two really define chivalry through a hybridization of existing norse martial ethos, and trading naval traditions with the adoption of heavier continental horses and increasingly more available armor (also a lot easier to get around Charlemagne's laws about don't sell weapons to foreigners, when youre no longer a foreigner, not that those laws really were practical in the first place, and it also helped that Charles was long dead by then) become the French Chivalric and thus knightly orders of the 12th century's basis.
    --
    Flint Obit:EDIT: huh QQ doesn't let you link tweets, or I'm just forgetting how to anyway Baen twitter

    https://twitter.com/BaenBooks/status/1548746657373749249?s=20&t=U5_8j9QZYAlN3g4AF78qfQ
     
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  29. ATP

    ATP Experienced.

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    True.And other vikings take over Sicyly and Russia.Ironborn could dream about it.
    Back to 1628 - i have some useful info about Poland.
    In 1628 it was formally Kingdom,but in reality Republic with gentry as ruling class.And peasants as slaves/well,better treated,but still/
    Good army,with winged hussarls which was basically unstoppable on battlefield then,and good economy.
    With King who wanted war with Turkey to get more power,and gentry which forbid it becouse they do not wanted stronger King.
    So,Poland from 1628 would never attack anybody first.
    At the same time,for gentry and even townspeople Poland was kind of paradise,so they would want to jin Poland if they could.And polish gentry would allow it - if it not bring bigger war.
    Religion - openly we were catholic,in reality class differencies mean much more.Polish catholic gentry would gave daughter to protestant gentry or even wealthy merchant,but catholic peasant? NOOOOOOO!!!!!.

    So,they are only power which certainly do not attack you first.

    P.S In OTL they were sent from 2000 Earth,yes? so,you do not need to think about Trump presidency - they would be ISOT long before 2016.
    Pity - i like to see reaction of downtimers to "Lord of The Rings" movie.
    Well,Excalibur must be enough.
     
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  30. Index: [Ring of Fire + 5 Minutes, May 1628]
    Imperator Pax

    Imperator Pax Talon Master

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    Dominion
    [Ring of Fire + 5 Minutes, May 1628]
    He swayed unsteadily. Doctor Stewart had been pleasantly buzzed up until the cascade of sudden... well he thought it had been heat lightning at first. A little earlier in the year for it, but not unheard of. Then he'd actually looked up. He had been having a good time at the faire. It had been a welcome distraction thinking about, the previous day's, Friday's political science class full of yawning freshmen. Tottering slightly he supposed at eighteen... he supposed he hadn't been chomping at the bit to talk about accountability and looking at the oversight of construction spending.... or whether their were justifications of pork, and political machinery.

    Then the cascade of thunder had left him swaying, and he had looked up. He had looked up, and that had been a mistake. He hadn't been drunk, but it had been enough to kill his buzz that was sure. It had been a dome. A giant of dome of... light and fire.


    After whatever it was had happened they had heard... what had sounded it like gunshots, which itself was not anything. He hadn't been prepared to pay much attention to that, but it also hadn't been more thunder. So many people out in the county had berms set up to fire from their back porches for rifles hearing a gunshot meant nothing. Then on top of that there were wild pigs, and coyote... and armadillos to talk about... so that didn't mean anything it. Gunshots were pretty normal.

    It was the fact it had happened after that... that tremendous flash of light, and thunder clap from hell was what had put them all on edge. Edge was the right word, it had been the shift in his sibling, and the others that put him on edge.


    "Well we're not in Kansas anymore." His brother declared looking as they came up over the ridge. There was shift in elevation that shouldn't have been there. It hadn't been there this morning. What they were looking at... that made no sense. They should have been at the or near the county line.

    The look Anthony Stewart received conveyed annoyance; not the least of which for the much exaggerated southern drawl which the comment had been delivered in. Viktor Lucius Gunther, formerly of the USMC, did not strike the larger, and still current USMC... but...

    Michael however did decide to swat at his brother in annoyance. Or tried to. He stumbled over his feet and missed his shoulder. "Woh, we're you sneaking shots when I wasn't looking?" Tony ribbed him as struggled to right himself. The senior non com laughed and rested his hands on his knees. For a moment the tension easing out of the group.

    The Assembled motley band were dressed for the RenFaire, which had left some of them in costume. Some of them in a half assed mixed affair... and a third in what was mostly just normal clothing with the addition of silly hats. It was of course per the trend that some of those costumes were not anywhere approaching historically accurate, which probably annoyed Michael nearly as much.

    Michael Stewart was a history professor; a freshly tenured, the celebration of that had been a few months back, one at that. His costume for the University's renaissance faire was historically accurate to a cavalier of England, and as well it should be given the faire was his pride and joy. Oliver Larkin meanwhile looked like he was on the set of fucking Game of Thrones.

    "Luke?" The other professor was examining the scene before them. They were not home. This was not the south eastern united states... and then of course the men burst out of the copse of unlikely to be native to the south eastern united states trees. They were armed, and in authentic costumes; a small part of his mind noted. The weapons were battle ready, and they already dripped blood. They smelled of black powder. They ran promptly into the group... well not really there was probably some forty yards between where they had exited the treeline to where they were.

    The knife in one hand dropped, and Luke had from his other hand had drawn the concealed forty five automatic, and after that Michael flinched as the gun went into action; he recognized that there were commands being issued but what he wasn't sure. The man holding the ... flintlock he was sure that was wrong... the historical firearm, he mentally corrected, dropped. His comrades joined him, and Lucius had already ejected and replaced with a fresh mag the one he had nearly emptied at them, and continued to prosecute into a two handed grip.

    ... but Luke was also backing up, which he took as sign to do the same.

    Michael Stewart was not a combat arms veteran. He looked and saw that his brother had also produced a larger frame nine millimeter handgun that still looked small in the bear paws of his brother. It was not the Beretta 92 'M9' he had had been trained on, though he knew his brother owned one. Michael had been in the Army Reserve... but that had been during peace time. He had only been in the army he was not afraid to admit because of the ROTC when he'd been an undergraduate. He was a civil affairs officer during those few years, and did not as a rule carry a gun, though he was well aware that was not the case with many of those in Army, Army reserve, national guard... never mind the Marines his brother associated with. "Get back to the cars," The command was even spoken, as if the man hadn't just gunned down a squad of men despite the surprise.

    VL Gunther, anyone who called him cool hand luke was asking to be stabbed, was a professor as well, but he didn't sound like a master of lecture right now. Oliver looked at him, then deferring, and nodded, and rounded up the others. It didnt' take them long. The cars worked and they moved towards the road, until they reached the waiting flashing lights of the Sheriff's Department cruiser.

    Oliver stepped out and began barking orders at the patrolman... who admittedly was used to seeing his lieutenant dressed up like this... at least it wasn't the 'tactical kilt' this time the detached part of Michael's brain commented as he surveyed his friends.

    Oliver shoved his head back in the window, "Alright Bill says there is a some kind of carriage up ahead, and there are more of those fucking weirdos. Best they can figure from everything is it got the whole damned town, and there is an ocean or some shit that way." He jammed his thumb towards one side of the road. "Gonna have Billy hold the fort here, can you give me a ride?" It hadn't been a serious question of course given the situation.

    They went on, and came quickly upon the 'carriage' and its lamed horses. "There are more wheel locks, guys." Michael announced as he craned out the window of the large SUV. He was more certain now that that was the correct identification of the antique. It didn't look like it was old though. Weathered, only a little, some of them were down right fancy even, but it surely wasn't more than a few years old, and it couldn't have been made with modern tooling.

    The Toyota went into park, and he followed in piling out of the vehicle to look at the carriage's state.

    "Yeah, and people ran from this." He gestured to the weird shift of the landscape, "They came from that way," ... where of course there was a strange looking road... well not a road in the modern sense but one that clearly had been run down by a horse drawn carriage recently enough. "Looks like this idiot tried to hack through the door," he gestured to the tarp another deputy had laid over a still form, and judging from the scene had met the business end of the county issued Bushmaster Ar 15 rifle the deputy had on hand.

    ... given the marked off brass.

    "They were some strange looking people, didn't know what to make of them. Think they were speaking German. I think" The deputy grunted his drawl hard tinged with the stress of the day. "Look they're gonna bring dogs up," to search for whomever, "but that ain't natural." He said gesturing towards the changed landscape, and he was right. The gathered assembly of men had been to every continent inhabited by men. They were all quite certain that what they were looking at was not normal.

    The for lack of a better term ditch was not really much of one. In the instance of its creation it had been the boundary of a perfect sphere. A sphere that had translocated them across time, and space into a parallel time stream. That wasn't the thing that occupied their attention. The columns of smoke on the horizon were what had their attention now. "Cause we didn't have enough to deal with am I right?" Tony growled.

    Then as if that wasn't enough. The deputy showed them exactly what all the carriage had been hauling in it. Coinage that Michael didn't recognize, but also food. Hard bread, and other stuff wrapped up with sausages. The hell were these people... the people with the matchlocks were a problem, and they had definitely heard shots after the... whatever that huge flash had been. Now they were having to deal with. The costumes were definitely authentic looking early modern Europe... continental European not English Renaissance. These looked early sixteen hundreds continental.

    He glanced around, and stopped, "What?" He asked.

    He didn't get a response

    "Field glasses?" Oliver asked, Luke jerked his head towards back at the truck, and Larkin came back with the Stryka around his neck. "Fuck." He muttered more to himself, pulled them over and handed them to Luke pointing to what looked in the distance to be a smoke trail

    It was more than one, Michael could tell once they'd been handed over for his chance to look out in the mysterious beyond that surrounded them. Michael took the binoculars. "I can't even see the curve from here," He was talking about the boundary of the dome. "Its-"

    "I'd guess its the whole damn county." Oliver Larkin grunted. "And those fires... " Michael noticed the plural, "those. We need to move."



    --
    Commentary: This is chronologically the day before the other scene, and is a slight revamp of how it was originally posted a while back in the misc thread. This is an old project, and has a fairly expansive cast of characters on both sides besides the 1632 characters. So this is a jump into the perspective of another primary character.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2022
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