With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

I am reminded somewhat of The Endless Pantheon series of Fics by Todeswind, A Dresden Files/Stargate SG-1 crossover where the Goa'uld's tech is partly magic and the Goa'uld used to be actual gods until hubris got the better of them resulting in even higher powers stripping them of most of their godly powers.

 

From this we can tell that this isn’t the actual main Stargate universe - since OL remembers it. Is it some comics universe then?

 

Mr Zoat is likely running under the idea that's the movie and TV series are separate continuities.

 

Ground forces don't really matter for the Goa'uld, not till Kull Warriors became a thing. What you have to remember is that ground combat has not been a serious part of Goa'uld warfare since before the Goa'uld found earth really. Ground combat is part formality, part show for the Goa'uld. The last time the Goa'uld performed large scale ground warfare was back when Unas were the host of choice, long before the Jaffa were created, before the Earth and humanity were even discovered by the Goa'uld. Heck by that time they had already developed sufficient starship technology(read badly copied ancient starship tech and/or stole from other races) that with numbers and what was probably brilliant military command skill and leadership from Ra, that they could fight against and last against the Asgard, even win a few battles of their own. And if their starship technology could do all that against the Asgard, what the hell would all the post-plague native milky races going to do to stop them that weren't nearly on that level? Beg the Nox to come save them? By the time they have found the earth they already had space based dominance among their peers in the milky way that ground warfare started getting less and less important for them. By the time the Jaffa were created, ground troops were just there to hold territory, keep the slaves in line, man the ships and generally be expendable cannon fodder and meatshields. Oh and act as walking Incubators for their young and make it easier for said young to be able to successfully take a human host.

Standard Goa'uld doctrine calls for using your Hat'ak motherships to crush any and all orbital defenses, bombard the major population centers and military installations and only once virtually everything has been reduced to rubble do you send in your legions of Jaffa cannon fodder to shift through the rubble and either enslave or finish off the survivors, with no fucks given about any Jaffa dying against survivors armed with better gear and trained using more modern combat tactics.

The Goa'uld are an extremely conservative society, slow to change or develop new technologies, especially since they have a very limited intellectual, research and development foundation. It was something Ra personally created as a tool to control Goa'uld society and help keep his power as Supreme System Lord. And when your civilization has such a limited R&D capability, what are you going to spend it on? The starship technology that's the lynchpin and backbone of how you fight wars, or the ground troops who only exist to hold territory and keep the slaves in line? The answer of course is the starships and the Jaffa get left with the absolute bottom of the barrel stuff that still leaves them capable of doing the job the Goa'uld created them for, not the shit that would have let them stand up to SG teams and give a good showing against Kull Warriors. Technology doesn't exist for no reason, especially in a society as conservative and slow to change as the Goa'uld.

Even the comics and the RPG only gave the Goa'uld gimmick-tech for ground forces, nothing really revolutionary.

Spoiler: examples

Mars, and his cyborg Jaffa, gladiator monsters and Energy Swords.

The special Lightning and Thunder staff weapons that Raiden equipped his Jaffa with, as well as his modified Kara Kesh

Zeus's own Lightning Thrower Kara Kesh

The Cauldron-Born zombie Jaffa created by Arawn as well as his previous foray's into cybernetically augmented Jaffa

Sokar's Super-Sarcophagus

Cloaking devices

Shikra blades

And the Hand Claws and Dragon Talon melee weapons used by Bastet's Bast Guard and Kur's Dragon Guard respectively

 

Amusingly the design of the Destiny and Seed class vessels suggests the Goa'uld likely did a really good job reverse enginering early era Ancient technology.

They only really seem to have hit a wall with the mid era Ancient tech seen in Atlantis. And the problem there was likely that mid era Ancient tech won't even turn on if you don't have the ATA gene.

 

True, but he doesn't know that dialing devices exist.

Corrected.

 

Not yet, but he will find them if he decides to take a peek at other habitable worlds.

 

You know, this Paul is actually quite interesting, remember how... every other Paul (I can remember at least) doesn't remember the specific setting they're put into? Like Red Ring Paul doesn't remember Teen Titans and main Paul didn't know anything about specifically Young Justice timeline?

This Paul actually knows stuff about the setting he ended up in, can remember specific plot stuff. That seems like it's new.

 

Can you explain this?

Cause if the stargates are just teleporters, the Malthusians have sixty seven thousand variations of them.

 

It seems like he might know the movie plot but not the TV series.

 

Yes.

And, technically, the three minutes of the animated series I've watched.

 

i guess i need some clarity on some aspects of the Power Ring.

based on other Pauls' ability to use their ring like a replicator, couldn't StarPaul do the same? after he gets everything he needs out of the Pyramid ship, just have the ring deconstruct the entire ship to its constituent parts and store it all in subspace. the ring can either fabricate a whole, working pyramid, a customized variation, or something else entirely.

unless the ring is 'blank'? like it has no access or records of any kind of technology in it? meaning StarPaul would have to first have an example of the tech in order to replicate it. is the ring AI smart enough to translate StarPaul's wants into realities? like if StarPaul wants an iPod badly enough, and remembers enough about its functionality, the ring could intuitively create the thing that StarPaul wants out of available resources.

i also don't understand the need to get off-planet and investigate already. he just discovered he's in the Stargate universe, he's a god among mortals now, and there's a whole planet, free of Goa'uld influence, that he can do whatever he wants with. it just feels like there are a thousand more important priorities than getting off-planet and exploring. for example, fortifying the planet and improving planetary defenses, because you know as soon as he steps off-planet, there's going to be some kind of triggered alarm somewhere, somehow, that alerts the Goa'uld to his presence and brings them back. i know it will happen regardless, but it seems like StarPaul has the option of them showing up sooner or later. why not pick later, once you've had a chance to properly prepare? stay under the radar man.

 

The only database he has is what he's taking off the data crystals, and that doesn't include everything he needs in order to build a new ship. For example, the maintenance logs of a nuclear submarine could tell you a great deal about it, but you couldn't build a new one with them alone. That and inference lets him make the remains of the ship safe, but that's about it.

He can scan and replicate most things, but that doesn't generally give him any understanding of why they work. Actually seeing things will allow him to build up faster, and gets around the fact that the only engine he knows how to build would be a very early steam engine. His choice is hoping that the planet he's on gets ignored for 400-500 years while he helps them industrialise and build their own ships, or find somewhere he can copy ships from.

 

Stargates are not just teleporters.

They create a stable wormhole between 2 points in space, allowing anything that can fit into the ring to go through. It can stay open for 38 minutes safely and longer if an object (like a human arm) if in the event horizon.

The doesn’t seem to be a range limit on connecting 2 stat gates, except for avaliable power to establish a stable connection.

2 Milkyway Gates can connect without any external power anywhere in the galaxy.

With a ZPM, the Earth gate was able to connect to Atlantis’s stargate in the Pegasus galaxy.

With a planets geomagnetic power source (while it was exploding) a milkyway gate reached the Destiny’s stargate 10s to 100s of galaxy’s away.

The Alterans has the rings for teleporting, the Lanteans has their transporters in Atlantis, and the Asgard have their iconic white glow teleporting that humanity inherits / earns from them.

I feel the need to point out, because someone will if I don’t, that longer ranges introduce SOME danger. And that if you are going through the gate when a solar flare goes off that you could be flung through time or to an alternate reality.

I’ve always thought this was because Earth didn’t have a DHD device with all its safeties, and Atlantis might not have it turned on cause a lot of the time the expedition didn’t really know how everything worked there. Or that that place in stargate continuum that recorded Solar fares was turned off until Baal found it so it wasn’t streaming that information to Milkyway DHDs for so long.

 

Nearly. They create ONE WAY wormholes. You can send radio messages no problem, but if you step into a portal that didn't open at your end? You die.

 

Power weapons? do you know how they stack against the 40k equivalent?

 

The really weird thing about Stargates? Everyone talks about the wormhole, but nobody talks about how they're also Star Trek transporters. The wormhole? Yea, that macerates you at an atomic level, but transports your bits through. It's just that on the sending end the Stargate scans you as you go through and the receiving gate reorganizes you. The reason you get disintegrated passing the wrong way is that Stargates aren't configured to scan on both ends. Simple stuff like radio transmissions makes it through backwards because the signal survives being jumbled.

But, we've seen people stick their hands into outgoing wormholes, and then pull them back out. Hell, you'd get heart attacks and strokes and worse if internal fluids couldn't flow from inside the horizon as you pass through. So, there's some sort of buffer which handles matter which has entered the Stargate, but might be pulled backwards- Counterpoint! We've also seen stuff like people going through on tethers or firing grappling hooks! How could those arrive on the other side when they could be drawn backwards at any time.

Obviously, this is where the show-writers just forgot most of the subtle mechanics, but if you wanna fridge logic it there's also stuff like Gatespeak and the way ancients used the Dakara superweapon to reseed the Milky Way galaxy after the plague. Stargates seem to have fucking ludicrous sensor and simulation capabilities which can track the genetic heritage of entire planets and manipulate the development of languages. Is it really such a leap to believe that they're capable of context-sensitive buffer simulations which only transmit partial objects if they are going to be cut off by Stargate deactivation?

 

The Malthusians wish they had teleporters with the range and low power requirements of a Stargate.

 

Plus if you stand too close during the opening of a wormhole then that weird splash like effect could kill you.

 

Yes, yes. There are prices to pay for reducing upkeep costs to almost 0, and it turns out that OSHA compliance is one of them.

Seriously though, Stargates in the Milkyway haven’t been maintenances by an Ancient in millions of years. And they had the Destiny Seed Ships long before that making a gate network in every galaxy they passed through with I imagine 0 plans to do maintenance on them.

A properly built Stargate can last almost forever as long as it’s not intentionally damage, falls into lava, or a black hole.

 

In case the SI ever gets curious about what that geometric shape is called, it's "frustum."

 

Would it be possible to sidestep the one-way travel restriction of a stargate by power ring transition through the wormhole?
I speculate that the one-way travel might be a restriction on the matter dematerialization/reintegration process of the gates, and not the wormhole itself, since some things are in fact transmitted both ways; such as radio waves and gravity.

 

I know very little of star gate, but what I do know comes solely from this

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/11361802/5/

So maybe all the useful stuff in that chapter they mention could help?

 

That should say 'short'.

I'm so amused at the fact that Paul needs to spell this out to Green Arrow. I'm sure at least a few members of the League realized what happened and are simply not drawing attention to it.

That should say 'thought'.

I wasn't expecting Mister Atom having his mind blown by a simple observation and comment from Paul, yet now that it's happened, I'm not surprised.

I notice that Batman seems to low key agree with having the Justice League in charge. He just wants to make it so that it isn't completely obvious. Hopefully we'll see JL members talking about this among themselves.

 

0_o

I’d really like a citation for this.

 

My favorite segment in a really long while for the story. That was equal parts hilarious and riveting. I really hope the rest of the episode is about this, the Justice League members coming to terms with their de facto rule of the world and having to properly take responsibility for it. I mean, they're already trying to fix the world after the recent catastrophe but since most of them are probably still in the mindset of "superheroes" they're most likely not taking proper advantage of the situation to resolve more than just "relief aid".

Oh, and I'm also happy that Batman is still wearing his Yellow Ring.

Batman, Dr. Mist, maybe Diana, just to name a few that I think recognized what happened or was happening but definitely didn't want people to notice. Probably because they're thinking the situation is calling for them to act like Dictators (the roman equivalent, not the modern one). Which I think is true, the Superheroes are the ones better prepared to fix this broken planet right now.

Funniest part of the whole thing. Never thought I would feel kind of sad and so amused by Mr. Atom at the same time in this way.

 

Absolutely fantastic, this payoff is hilarious - very well done, Mr Zoat.

 

Great. 'Alphas'. Using a discredited study on wolf behaviour to describe purported behaviour of prehistoric humanity. We have no idea how tribes were led - that's what prehistory means. All we know is how they were grouped - small bands of one or two dozen people nearby 10 to 20 other bands. We can presume those 10 to 20 bands usually got on well, so you could arguably call them 'tribes' but we don't know how those bands were led or whether one of those bands led the others.

Batman apparently does know they have taken over the world, and approves. To be fair, governments in comic books are generally incompetent, evil, or incompetent AND evil.

 

Yup, sadly nobody in universe will call him on that particular bit of stupidity.