Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

DelightedOne · Monday at 8:29 PM

Sorry, everything is a little confusing right now because of the multiple discussions about basically all our goals but we are letting Selene finish her training this turn right? Because delaying that is delaying dealing with Daybreaker and that is not safe at all.

We don't need Selene to guard or look for the Outsider, her priority should be making sure the demigoddess of the Sun doesn't turn into a tyrannical monster that will kill us when she notices our high lore levels(or worse, Brand) and make her go back to being the kind and comprehensive ruler of Equestria that will forgive us and hopefully not throw us in pony jail.

angelsadvocate666 · Monday at 8:31 PM

…Uh. Hey guys. Not that I really expect it to happen, unless Windy's been doing shit or something, but it might not be the best idea to put Selene and Bureau constables on guard duty at the same time? Just, you know, in case there actually is a fight?

Pittauro · Monday at 8:32 PM

DelightedOne said:
Sorry, everything is a little confusing right now because of the multiple discussions about basically all our goals but we are letting Selene finish her training this turn right? Because delaying that is delaying dealing with Daybreaker and that is not safe at all.

We don't need Selene to guard or look for the Outsider, her priority should be making sure the demigoddess of the Sun doesn't turn into a tyrannical monster that will kill us when she notices our high lore levels(or worse, Brand) and make her go back to being the kind and comprehensive ruler of Equestria that will forgive us and hopefully not throw us in pony jail.

problem is that we PROBABLY can't afford to spend an action on training her on turn 21 anyway, so if we have her only train with the third "diligent" action we can complete her training on turn 22 and basically get a free action out of her

Sveta08 · Monday at 8:32 PM

OurLadyOfWires said:
Baldomare has been unsummoned. She will only be available for summoning again at the beginning of turn 18.

The Level 4 Influence "I HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE" has expired.

This conversation, or something very close to it, would have happened had you gifted Baldomare a Level 5 book.

You feel like something good might happen, if you gift Baldomare a level 6 book.

Although giving her a Level 5 book will be enough to reset her summoning period, in the future, even if it does not encourage her to say anything else.

Here was the line specifically in the quest. The other I believe was a comment somewhere. Will hunt it down later

Gyldir · Monday at 8:34 PM

OurLadyOfWires said:
The only character who would treat your library as a "library" is (was?) Twilight Sparkle. As it stands, use of your "Library" involves you actively lending your manuscripts to your followers, whenever situation and convenience allows it.

So yeah, Fluttershy won't benefit from your Library, since (narratively) she will never go to your house, while you are not there, just to borrow something from your intentionally-out-of-the-way cabinet of Lore-writings. (Only Twilight would reach that level of book-obsession and weirdness).
Well. The bottom line is that Fluttershy won't be leveling up her Lores anytime soon, if ever.

Ah dang.
Comet you featherbrained colt.
You are endangering Flutters by keeping her from gaining the tools to protect herself!
*mumbles angrily*

BritBiscuit said:
Also weren't we meant to immediately bring Changelings to Celestia to deal with or was it just Changeling collaberaters idr?

Probably are getting it verified by Eclipse and then it instantly goes to Celestia

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Pay the price, cd 100]

[Roll: 60 + 9 (Martial) + 30 (Heart Level 3) = 99]

[Failure]

Ah fuck.

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Velvet Covers has lost one health]

[Velvet Covers has lost one scrap of Heart Lore]

Fuck you Church.

OurLadyOfWires said:
could very technically have used her Edge AotL to double her Martial bonus, and gain the last needed +1.

OurLadyOfWires said:
9 (Martial)

Pittauro said:
It's a +1. it's USUALLY near negligible. I suspect many of us would have preferred to keep it for combat instead.

It would have been a +9, doubling our martial.
+1 is what we were missing.
Not disagreeing with Velvet not choosing to use it, just wanted to correct that error.
<edit> Apparently i got that part wrong</edit>

Pittauro said:
...you know, I was CONVINCED we need a minion for this, but no, a confidant it's enough.

Though we HAVE been told that using a leashed character is particularly cruel, so IDEALLY we'd want to use an actual confidant...

that said yeah, if we just need a "good friend"... Honestly I'm getting around the idea.

Let's send Mareinette to befriend someone, then we could potentially get the Moth Sacrament right on turn 21.

Not just someone, Spoiled Rich.

Pittauro said:
They have a fairly struggling marriage. Spoiled Rich (maiden name, Spoiled Milk) basically takes advantage of the wealth and reputation of her husband for the most part, and kind of pushed her daughter to be her worst self.

That said... what could she do? She'd go and tell her husband that Velvet showed her eldritch stuff and to do something about it, but Velvet is the Lunar Bureau Commissioner and has the implicit trust of TWO Alicorns and leads the not-secret-police.

Filthy either wouldn't believe her (the most likely options, seeing as this Karen is quite the liar with a history of lying and being generally unpleasant and he knows it) or would just be unable to do anything about it.

as for quicker... maybe? Honestly if we send Mareinette I could see her going acquaintance to good friend in a single action. Same with Velvet, potentially, especially if we use an AotL for it.

That's all we need.

Venerable Ro said:
Point of order; if we did that would we have any assurance that Mareinette wouldn't just resume her "friendship" with said pony on her own terms? We'd essentially be handing her a ready-made confidante.

No risk of that if the Moth Sac sacrifice doesn't survive the night.

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Mareinette has invoked "NEVER ASK A LADY HER AGE"]

[Details of combat have been redacted]

gnah.

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Velvet: 85 88 + 89 (total combat bonus) = 177]

[Invader: 9 + 37 (total combat bonus) = 46]

[Overflow: Velvet – 131, Invader – 0]

[Invader suffers two wounds (-100 to Velvet's overflow)]

[Velvet: 35 + 89 (total combat bonus) = 124]

[Invader: 83 + 37 (total combat bonus) = 120]

[Overflow: Velvet – 35, Invader – 0]

This is just unfair.
I like it!

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Velvet: 5 + 69 (total combat bonus) = 74]

[Invader: 91 + 37 (total combat bonus) = 128]

Oh fuck.

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Overflow: Velvet – 35, Invader – 54]

[Velvet Covers suffers one wound (-50 to Invader's overflow)]

[Velvet Covers has reached zero health]

[Velvet Covers has activated "Dancing With Death"]

[Velvet Covers is being attacked in her home, she will refuse to "Escape" or "Play dead"]

[Velvet Covers has chosen to continue combat]

Fuck.

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Overflow: Velvet – 92, Invader – 4]

[Invader suffers one wound (-50 to Velvet Covers's overflow)]

[Invader has been defeated]

Good riddance.

OurLadyOfWires said:
Combating suspicion, breakpoints 60/80/100/120/150]

[Mareinette's roll: 90 13 + 60 (Social action) + 30 (Grail, level 6) = 180]

[Final breakpoint reached]

"[GRAIL]!"

-and then she convinces everypony this is just a bad dream, and that they should go back to sleep.

And they all, without exception, believe her.

[This enemy's attack will create absolutely no suspicion. Its occurrence will be completely ignored both narratively and mechanically, unless Velvet Covers decides otherwise]

lol

spiderhellian said:
Edit: Oh, and do we get a corpse out of this?

Nope, Mareinette treated the attack as UberEats.

OurLadyOfWires said:
Oh, and also. You do have enough... information, to try and gun for Filthy's wife. You did talk to him enough to learn, in character, that his marriage is rough. That might be a thin thread to grab, but I'm fine with it.

Well, i wish all the best to the soon (in a few turns) widower!

OurLadyOfWires said:
If you die, you die. And Soft probably takes over in a continuation-quest, if people are interested.

Is that a strictly only Soft thing (getting you a wolf-y-er quest) or could Selene also carry the torch?

OurLadyOfWires said:
Now, narratively, there is also a layer to it. I wanted to follow those mechanical bones, but I definitely sprinkled some things here and there.
For example, Mareinette fought out of your ~~side~~ (EDIT: )sight.
Why?
And Biedde allowed a combatant to pass him.
Again, why? I see people saying that was incompetent of him, and that is a possible interpretation. But why not, instead, consider that he is not incompetent. What does that tell you?
Names have agency. And they are watching you as much as you are watching them. Or maybe even more closely.

Gods, Biedde would deserve a proper dressing down.
He intentionally failed his duty for his own plots. Fucking up our plans.

But it does tell us things about how tight/loose the binding is.
He could intentionally (if we assume that theoretical) let an attacker through when on his guard action.

Greymere said:
I mean, even if we take out Copper, there's still an entire-ass cult who knows how to do things like summon Windigos in Manehattan. Possibly even multiple cults if the main one ends up fragmenting. Probably should also deal with that, and I don't think mass-murder is our preferred solution.

If we get Copper and the originals of the manuscripts, there'd be nothing pointing back to us.
And they'd be extremely weak in Lantern, perfect distraction for Bureau and Eclipse.

@OurLadyOfWires
Is there anything forcing us to either sic bureau on Copper now or leave it be?
Or could we go "It must have been a distraction, kill the Commissioner to make the Bureau unable to act so the city changelings can disappear. I put my life, and the lives of my family, in your worthy hooves (constables guard action), but we can't give the citychangelings a chance to run and restart, Detectives need to stay on lookout on the city until the constables can bust it. Then we can follow the leads from there/from the attack on me." (giving us time for our names to discuss this issue with copper)

Greymere · Monday at 8:34 PM

angelsadvocate666 said:
…Uh. Hey guys. Not that I really expect it to happen, unless Windy's been doing shit or something, but it might not be the best idea to put Selene and Bureau constables on guard duty at the same time? Just, you know, in case there actually is a fight?

...that would certainly be interesting

But it would give a good narrative reason for us to tell Selene no on the guarding thing in place for Comet, and might fall into Bird's optimization considerations.

OurLadyOfWires · Monday at 8:35 PM

OurLadyOfWires said:
Just say Names.

Oh, fine, and here I was trying to be all mysterious… But anyhow, it is possible for her to befriend the Names. It is also possible to make the Names stay summoned permanently. However, the real kicker is that those two things are one and the same.

Well, duh, real friends want to stay close to each other!

DelightedOne · Monday at 8:37 PM

Pittauro said:
problem is that we PROBABLY can't afford to spend an action on training her on turn 21 anyway, so if we have her only train with the third "diligent" action we can complete her training on turn 22 and basically get a free action out of her

Uh, she trains alone. Velvet is only needed for her All-4, if we let her do 1 action for it after this turn Selene's training will be completed and she will start planning how to deal with Daybreaker. All-4 is just a bonus to that.

angelsadvocate666 · Monday at 8:37 PM

Gyldir said:
It would have been a +9, doubling our martial.
+1 is what we were missing.
Not disagreeing with Velvet not choosing to use it, just wanted to correct that error.

What? No, that's not how that works. It doubles the Edge bonus specifically, not the whole martial score. The only reason it effects base martial at all is because Edge does a a single +1 to base martial. On top of its bigger pluses to combat.

Sintonir · Monday at 8:37 PM

Quaxotia said:
Are we aiming for Copper's head, or to take her in alive for whatever unethical sacrament requiring a sacrifice?

I'd say kill Copper, since she may be able to escape (especially if she has a Name summoned and we don't manage to force that Name back to the Mansus), but maybe take some prisoners from the cult.

Sveta08 · Monday at 8:37 PM

Ah, so it was from a comment!
Er, not quite, but close enough.

Greymere · Monday at 8:39 PM

DelightedOne said:
Uh, she trains alone. Velvet is only needed for her All-4, if we let her do 1 action for it after this turn Selene's training will be completed and she will start planning how to deal with Daybreaker. All-4 is just a bonus to that.

I thought All-Four was considered the end of her training?

Hold on, I'm going to go check.

angelsadvocate666 · Monday at 8:40 PM

ah, stay summoned permanently is befriending. The permanent part of the quote is important, and I was forgetting that, because the way it is arranged does imply the need for a specific process.

Greymere · Monday at 8:41 PM

OurLadyOfWires said:
Selene is currently "in training". She will have the following exclusive actions available to her, every turn, until they are all completed. These actions will always auto-succeed.
Due to her "Diligent" trait, Luna will always perform at least one of these actions every turn for free. But she may spend her own action-points to advance her training more quickly::

[] This body is new to her, but it is old to the world. She must learn of its abilities and privileges. (Grain +5 to her General Bonus) (TRAINING ACTION)
[] This body is old to her, but it is new to the world. She must learn of its restrictions and limitations. (Gain +1 total health) (TRAINING ACTION)
[] Realize something about Edge. (Unlock her Edge skill) (TRAINING ACTION)
[] Realize something about Winter. (Unlock her Winter skill) (TRAINING ACTION)
[] Realize something about Knock. (Unlock her Knock skill) (TRAINING ACTION)

Once Selene completes her training, she will be able to reach Level 4 in all of her Lores at the same time. That lesson will require an action from Velvet Covers, who must have the requisite Lore knowledge, and will grant Selene a further +1 total health and +5 to her General Bonus. As well, of course, as the upgrade in her personal Lore levels.

Ah sorry, you were correct @DelightedOne. Her training is considered completed once her own actions are done, not when we do the capstone. That does make the training option a bit more important.

Gyldir · Monday at 8:43 PM

angelsadvocate666 said:
What? No, that's not how that works. It doubles the Edge bonus specifically, not the whole martial score. The only reason it effects base martial at all is because Edge does a a single +1 to base martial. On top of its bigger pluses to combat.

Oops.
Post edited.
May bad.

DelightedOne · Monday at 8:49 PM

Sintonir said:
I'd say kill Copper, since she may be able to escape (especially if she has a Name summoned and we don't manage to force that Name back to the Mansus), but maybe take some prisoners from the cult.

We can only take prisoners if we do it as a Bureau actions since we don't have anywhere to hold them as an independent faction, that also kinda nulls the chance of us killing Copper since we are the police and the fate of the world kinda depends on us being the good police, so we can't just kill cultists.

Pittauro · Monday at 9:29 PM

Quaxotia said:
Are we aiming for Copper's head, or to take her in alive for whatever unethical sacrament requiring a sacrifice?

Gyldir said:
No risk of that if the Moth Sac sacrifice doesn't survive the night.

hey, we're not "KILLING" the moth "sacrifice".

we're just sacrificing our bond with them. locking it to Acquaintance, as they'll know what Velvet is giving up of themselves. Or something like that.

and really, Mareinette hardly needs help to make contacts for herself. she's the GRAIL Name.

She can pick most anyone out of the street, and have them as confidants in one action if she's trying.

DelightedOne said:
Uh, she trains alone. Velvet is only needed for her All-4, if we let her do 1 action for it after this turn Selene's training will be completed and she will start planning how to deal with Daybreaker. All-4 is just a bonus to that.

you misunderstood me.

Selene needs to train Winter realization and general bonus before we can train her.

there's two ways to go about her.

TURN 20: Action 1 and 2 on anything, Diligent action knocks off one of the two training action left

TURN 21:Action 1 and 2 on anything, Diligent action knocks off the last training action

TURN 22: Velvet can train her to all-4

OR

TURN 20 : Action 1 and Diligent on training, Action 2 on anything

TURN 21: Velvet can train her to all-4

in the first case, she basically has 3-3-2 actions on turn 20-21-22

In the second case she has 3-2-2 actions, BUT she's ready a turn earlier.

Remember that she LOSES the third extra action from diligent once she's fully trained (at least as far as we know), as that action is meant to train, and presumably she's done with training after we complete those actions.

Sintonir said:
I'd say kill Copper, since she may be able to escape (especially if she has a Name summoned and we don't manage to force that Name back to the Mansus), but maybe take some prisoners from the cult.

We don't have a prison ready I think.

and if we had one, I'd definitely take Copper as the prisoner, assuming it wasn't particularly risky. It's not like Copper could actually escape from Biedde.

but if we want prisoners we'd have to put some followers on building that prison this coming turn.

Rafuki22 · Monday at 9:36 PM

Pittauro said:
and if we had one, I'd definitely take Copper as the prisoner,

I wouldn't, unless i was completely sure that she would keep her mouth shut about us and our previous activities as a cult leader.

Gyldir · Monday at 9:42 PM

Pittauro said:
hey, we're not "KILLING" the moth "sacrifice".

we're just sacrificing our bond with them. locking it to Acquaintance, as they'll know what Velvet is giving up of themselves. Or something like that.

and really, Mareinette hardly needs help to make contacts for herself. she's the GRAIL Name.

She can pick most anyone out of the street, and have them as confidants in one action if she's trying.

Moth Sacrament does not require killing the victim. True.
But it also doesn't require that we let them live after the Sacrament is done.

Greymere · Monday at 9:49 PM

Rafuki22 said:
I wouldn't, unless i was completely sure that she would keep her mouth shut about us and our previous activities as a cult leader.

I think he meant as our personal prisoner, not the Bureau's.

spiderhellian · Monday at 9:50 PM

I love the narrative of doing A Conversation with Copper. I think that would be really cool. But we lack a prison, oh well.

I added some more possibilities to Outsider searching, including Jade this time (who I assumed has 8 Intrigue, i.e. perfectly average).

If we send all our non-Name/Alicorn confidants at the Outsider, we've got a 60% chance of success... Or 68% if Comet goes to the Grave expedition.

I'm thinking like
Baldomare: Scry Copper?
DoA: Knock Lesson
Mareinette: Social Filthy Rich (or Influence if you insist)
Biedde: Attack Copper
Luna: Guard + Outsider

Comet: Grave
Rarity: Outsider
Jade: Outsider (Scry manuscripts? It was at -30 when we scryed for Twilight, it might be tougher now, though +53 and a reroll is nothing to sneeze at)
Servants: Outsider

EDIT: Man, maybe we should leave the Grave for another day. That one extra roll takes us from 68% chance of success to 90%...

Shaper47 · Monday at 9:51 PM

Gyldir said:
Moth Sacrament does not require killing the victim. True.
But it also doesn't require that we let them live after the Sacrament is done.

Narratively removing the mask before eating them does fit.

It's kinda cruel though.

Fits with in character ruthlessness and desire to protect family however so Velvet can probably do it.

Pittauro · Monday at 9:58 PM

Gyldir said:
Moth Sacrament does not require killing the victim. True.
But it also doesn't require that we let them live after the Sacrament is done.

...I'm double and triple checking, but no, you're not Shaper47...

Shaper47 said:
Narratively removing the mask before eating them does fit.

It's kinda cruel though.

Fits with in character ruthlessness and desire to protect family however so Velvet can probably do it.

ah, and here he is!

if even Shaper is calling it "kinda cruel" then you know this is just beyond the pale

spiderhellian said:
Mareinette: Social Filthy Rich (or Influence if you insist)

I'd rather do influence.

We still have those three actions to use with Velvet (2 +1 free social, so it's effectively trading Mareinette rolling at +90 (with reroll) ONCE for 3 actions rolling +51 (which is still far beyond what ANY mortal can accomplish without Grail by the way. by far.

Rafuki22 · Monday at 9:59 PM

Greymere said:
I think he meant as our personal prisoner, not the Bureau's.

Hmmm, in that case even then, right now the only good Copper is a Copper with cold dead hoofs or in Mareinette stomach.

I don't want her to have any chances of rolling a 100 in her escape attempt.

I would only consider her as a prisoner if we can use her for the Lantern/Grail(Mareinette) Sacrament exactly after without delay.

Merciless? Yes, but we burned the bridges long ago and the dice lead to this outcome.

Sintonir · Monday at 10:10 PM

Actually, since it came to it, do we have options which would give us a personal imprisonment space?
If not for Copper and cult then for Windy.
I feel like some Forge or maybe Knock Name could add catacombs to our house(Forge would definitely work better), but doing such things publicly(like contracting some ponies) will attract attention and suspicion.
Also, somebody high enough in Grail(like Marinette) may be able to keep prisoners just walking around without them even wanting to run.
Are there other options?

spiderhellian · Monday at 10:13 PM

Sintonir said:
Actually, since it came to it, do we have options which would give us a personal imprisonment space?
If not for Copper and cult then for Windy.
I feel like some Forge or maybe Knock Name could add catacombs to our house(Forge would definitely work better), but doing such things publicly(like contracting some ponies) will attract attention and suspicion.
Also, somebody high enough in Grail(like Marinette) may be able to keep prisoners just walking around without them even wanting to run.
Are there other options?

We can make a prison in Jade's basement.

It just takes effort, is too suspicious for servants to do, and would be better done by a Forge-aligned pony (which we sorta lack).

Gyldir · Monday at 10:50 PM

Pittauro said:
...I'm double and triple checking, but no, you're not Shaper47...

In the theoretical (what if having someone-we-mareinetted-for-moth-sacrament around is dangerous) killing her afterwards is not wantonly cruel. It is ending a thread before it entangles and kills us.

In my assumption (the fact that it is bird confirmed that there is no risk of the moth sac victim leaking any info and what it implies about the victim when we are done (imho: Twilight level of mindbreak from the whiplash of dropping from Confidante to moth-sac-victim)) the cruel thing is doing personal moth sacrament at all.

So I think it isn't Shaper47 to consider a coup-de-grace after moth sacrament.

Pittauro said:
if even Shaper is calling it "kinda cruel" then you know this is just beyond the pale

Eeeeeh, in theory it could also be a double negative situation.

But shaper is also talking about eating her. And if we wanted (big if) to do both moth and cannibalism-grail Sac, it would be more cruel to use 2 different ponies. Victimizing 2 ponies instead of 1.

Shaper47 · Monday at 10:59 PM

Stars above have I become a reference here!

Pittauro · Monday at 11:19 PM

Gyldir said:
In the theoretical (what if having someone-we-mareinetted-for-moth-sacrament around is dangerous) killing her afterwards is not wantonly cruel. It is ending a thread before it entangles and kills us.

In my assumption (the fact that it is bird confirmed that there is no risk of the moth sac victim leaking any info and what it implies about the victim when we are done (imho: Twilight level of mindbreak from the whiplash of dropping from Confidante to moth-sac-victim)) the cruel thing is doing personal moth sacrament at all.

So I think it isn't Shaper47 to consider a coup-de-grace after moth sacrament.

SHaper has become a verb!

but yes, it kinda is. At least with most potential targets.

Velvet is above all suspicion. EVEN if a "mothed" pony wanted to speak against us... who'd ever believe them when we have the princesses on our side?

as far as it being cruel... well, it is. ESPECIALLY if we do it on a "Leashed" good friend, Bird told us as much.

the problem is that, and I shouldn't need to say it, killing them is far crueler.

It's murder vs basically gaslighting someone. Sure, they're both bad, but one is worse.

Gyldir said:
Eeeeeh, in theory it could also be a double negative situation.

But shaper is also talking about eating her. And if we wanted (big if) to do both moth and cannibalism-grail Sac, it would be more cruel to use 2 different ponies. Victimizing 2 ponies instead of 1.

not really.

the mothed target has to be a confidant (or at least a leashed good friend). We can't exactly use an enemy because they're, by definition, enemies, and we most likely can't afford to find someone... well, more unpleasant/"evil" then spoiled Rich to go for this.

Not unless the Flim Flam Brothers decide to visit Ponyville in the next couple turns, at least!

IF (and it's a BIG if!) we ever went for Mareinette grail sacrament, we most likely would use a prisoner we'd want dead anyway. Someone like Copper, or at least a murderer of some kind.

...Uh, it would even be fairly easy. Scry for a Serial Killer, child abuser or something of that kind, send Biedde to kidnap them.

Limabot · Monday at 11:19 PM

[X] There has been an attempt against the Commissioner's life.
[X] Time

Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Not too sore, are you?

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Versed in the lewd.

Shinning Glimmering and Dangerous

Studying the hidden Lores

In hell we live, lament

Uh-oh, better hide those FOALS!

Not too sore, are you?

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Getting sticky.

Shinning Glimmering and Dangerous

In hell we live, lament

I trust you know where the happy button is?

In hell we live, lament

Studying the hidden Lores

Not too sore, are you?

Versed in the lewd.

Making the rounds.

Studying the hidden Lores

In hell we live, lament

Araneae

Versed in the lewd.

Versed in the lewd.

Making the rounds.

Getting sticky.

Araneae

Studying the hidden Lores

Versed in the lewd.

Versed in the lewd.

Expedition Probe from SV

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