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Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

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Talon Tiger Dino said:
Yeah, but unless you end up lowering the DC by like, at least 30, it's still outside the realm of mortal achievement
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Don't underestimate the Bureau.

They could always stack buffs.

Remember how Velvet stacked buffs in the search.

At a guess, +25 hero units + 20 elite investigators (i.e. everyone else) + 20 prior investigation + 20 ruthlessness/fear in making suspects talk.

Now they probably aren't quite that good or at least the cults Moth and them having no clue about the lores should debuff them. But they're still the best of the best.
 
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Shaper47 said:
Don't underestimate the Bureau.

They could always stack buffs.

Remember how Velvet stacked buffs in the search.

At a guess, +25 hero units + 20 elite investigators (i.e. everyone else) + 20 prior investigation + 20 ruthlessness/fear in making suspects talk.

Now they probably aren't quite that good or at least the cults Moth and them having no clue about the lores should debuff them. But they're still the best of the best.
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This seems a little overblown.

Shining was the best of the best. That was +25.

I don't think it's going to be anything so huge.
 
Shaper47 said:
Don't underestimate the Bureau.

They could always stack buffs.

Remember how Velvet stacked buffs in the search.

At a guess, +25 hero units + 20 elite investigators (i.e. everyone else) + 20 prior investigation + 20 ruthlessness/fear in making suspects talk.

Now they probably aren't quite that good or at least the cults Moth and them having no clue about the lores should debuff them. But they're still the best of the best.
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Which search are you referring to? Did Velvet use mundane means, or the Lores? Because our Bureau can't stack Lore buffs, what with having no Lores.

And also being able to stack buffs to the degree you propose by mundane means would invalidate the QM's marker for, "this is impossible for mortals."
 
Huh, I genuinely didn't think I'd get this far.

In any case the sabotage is to try and make sure there aren't any loose threads along the edge of the whole mess, such as Copper's name.

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Evidence coverup: Selene]

[Roll: 64 + 20 (Selene) + 30 (Selene: no holds barred) + 15 (Selene's Edge, level 3) + 30 (Expedition's Moth total 6) = 159]

[The CD to investigate the aftermath of this assault has been set to "159"]
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"The aftermath of this assault" will certainly cover the specifics of who was here and what happened, so we won't have to deal with witnesses claiming a squad of monsters and a missing Princess came in and destroyed everything. But, just in case that doesn't cover "the last few months and origins of this cult" I decided that it was worth taking the opportunity to mess with the veracity of any information that could be found on that subject.
 
Talon Tiger Dino said:
Which search are you referring to? Did Velvet use mundane means, or the Lores? Because our Bureau can't stack Lore buffs, what with having no Lores.
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The search for Luna.

Removing the SH bonus we were running on a +60 buff due to our prep work. Which was done through mundane means.

Also not including base stats.

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Search bonuses: +15 (Learning, SH doubled) +20 (SECRET HISTORIES, doubled) + 15 (The First Search, third threshold) + 25 (The Second Search, fifth threshold) + 20 (The Third Search, second threshold) = 95]
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Venerable Ro said:
Huh, I genuinely didn't think I'd get this far.

In any case the sabotage is to try and make sure there aren't any loose threads along the edge of the whole mess, such as Copper's name.



"The aftermath of this assault" will certainly cover the specifics of who was here and what happened, so we won't have to deal with witnesses claiming a squad of monsters and a missing Princess came in and destroyed everything. But, just in case that doesn't cover "the last few months and origins of this cult" I decided that it was worth taking the opportunity to mess with the veracity of any information that could be found on that subject.
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Why would we care about Copper's name? Following up that trail won't lead to any incriminating evidence on Velvet. That would be the manuscripts, whose discovery is uninfluenced by our obfuscating.
 
Shaper47 said:
The search for Luna.

Removing the SH bonus we were running on a +60 buff due to our prep work. Which was done through mundane means.

Also not including base stats.
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Well, hopefully the Bureau can't pull bonuses equal to the entirety of Equestria bent to the singular purpose of being our living process of elimination for a location revealed to us by walking into Luna's dreams.
 
Talon Tiger Dino said:
Why would we care about Copper's name? Following up that trail won't lead to any incriminating evidence on Velvet. That would be the manuscripts, whose discovery is uninfluenced by our obfuscating.
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Copper Secateur:

Tribe: Earth Pony
Sex: Female
Mark: (Image Copied From National Registry)
Hair color: Light Pink
Coat Color: Dark Red
Place of Birth: Unintelligible
Last Known Place Of Residence: Ponyville
Known Associates: Investigation Ongoing
.
.
.
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I'm basically trying to fill this hypothetical dossier with as much junk data as possible, so any background checks on the mare who tried to have the commissioner murdered don't end up in our back yard. There are wolves in our back yard, as well as a goodly number of disaffected ex-cultists, not to mention everyone Copper interacted with while she was working for The Master in her capacity as the Grail Adept.
 
OurLadyOfWires said:
No. They find the manuscripts if they find the safe. Unrelated to evidence planted.
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Welp. It is what it is, I guess. Hopefully they either don't find it or we have enough loyalty w/ them that the manuscripts being found won't immediately send us spiraling into a bad end.

[X] Plan: Primer and Warning
[X] One Lore and Warning
 
[X] Plan: Primer and Warning
[X] Plan: Not Underestimating the Bureau
[X] Plan: A Delay and a Warning

Edit:
[X] Plan: Forge Lore One
 
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Talon Tiger Dino said:
Well, hopefully the Bureau can't pull bonuses equal to the entirety of Equestria bent to the singular purpose of being our living process of elimination for a location revealed to us by walking into Luna's dreams.
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Well Velvet was single hoofly being the entire organizational force of the search. Because the nobles who were supposed to provide the organizational expertise dipped (probably why Celestia dumped them).

But this is a much shorter search and nopony's going to be dipping on this one. Given they're the best of the best and the authority they wield.

I wouldn't be too surprised with them able to pull similar bonuses.

Now it's not all bad. They didn't have a lot of time and the cults lore will probably debuff them. Along with the cult taking preparations to leave.

But like don't underestimate the Bureau.
 
Greymere said:
Welp. It is what it is, I guess. Hopefully they either don't find it or we have enough loyalty w/ them that the manuscripts being found won't immediately send us spiraling into a bad end.

[X] Plan: Primer and Warning
[X] One Lore and Warning
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Maybe it could be possible to sneak an extra expedition in before the Bureau really starts searching the old headquarters.
 
Shaper47 said:
Well Velvet was single hoofly being the entire organizational force of the search. Because the nobles who were supposed to provide the organizational expertise dipped (probably why Celestia dumped them).

But this is a much shorter search and nopony's going to be dipping on this one. Given they're the best of the best and the authority they wield.

I wouldn't be too surprised with them able to pull similar bonuses.

Now it's not all bad. They didn't have a lot of time and the cults lore will probably debuff them. Along with the cult taking preparations to leave.

But like don't underestimate the Bureau.
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It is times like these that I wish we got to see our Investigators' rolls on things.
 
I honestly could go either way on sabotage vs. no sabotage... I might change my mind but I like all the leading plans equally right now.

[X] Plan: A Paradoxical Riddle
[X] Plan: Primer and Warning
[X] Plan: Not Underestimating the Bureau
[X] Plan: Safe and Sound
[X] Plan: Just lore

A lot of people said they'd consider a plan with Forge's Redemption. I actually agree, because
  • I like the idea of Shining and possibly Twilight getting healed, even if we can't use it for our own gain.
  • It avoids the problem of having to explain how Shining and Twilight got magically healed if they accidentally uses magic. They are now allowed to use magic in public again without drawing suspicion.
I honestly like revealing Forge's Redemption more than laundering the lores right away. We can see it in the evidence and pretend we're casting it on Shining on a whim, then have it work once to our surprise, and deliberately fail when we're asked to replicate it afterwards to pretend it's a fluke and hide our lore knowledge. (I am also wondering if we can make the instructions good enough for somepony to cast it without lore knowledge, which would be better for the ruse.)

It may be a long shot but I am honestly willing to vote for any reasonable plan that has Forge's Redemption. Here's the combinations I think people might actually vote for though.

[X] Plan: Forge Alone
-[X] [FORGE-RITUAL] You planted a set of instructions, on how to perform a miraculous feat. (Share "The Forge's Redemption". Counts as "one" evidence)

[X] Plan: Forge Sabotage
-[X] [SABOTAGE] You planted several conflicting, contradictory, and downright false documents. As long as they fall for it, this will cause heads to be scratched. (Attempt to hinder and obfuscate all investigation efforts. Counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] [FORGE-RITUAL] You planted a set of instructions, on how to perform a miraculous feat. (Share "The Forge's Redemption". Counts as "one" evidence)

[X] Plan: Forge Lore Zero
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ZERO] You only planted some very vague, but educative, information about the Lores. (No specific Lores shared, counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] [FORGE-RITUAL] You planted a set of instructions, on how to perform a miraculous feat. (Share "The Forge's Redemption". Counts as "one" evidence)

[X] Plan: Forge Lore One
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ONE] You planted something that, in its own narrow way, has some practical use. (One Lore shared, counts as "two" evidence)
-[X] [FORGE-RITUAL] You planted a set of instructions, on how to perform a miraculous feat. (Share "The Forge's Redemption". Counts as "one" evidence)

[X] Plan: Forge Windigos
-[X] [FORGE-RITUAL] You planted a set of instructions, on how to perform a miraculous feat. (Share "The Forge's Redemption". Counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] [WINDIGOS] You made it convincing. You made it look secret. You even simulated a burn mark, to pretend they tried to destroy this "document". But in the end, you warned them about the ticking bombs. (Share knowledge about the sealed Windigo's existence. Counts as "one" evidence)

[X] Plan: Forge Bagel
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ZERO] You only planted some very vague, but educative, information about the Lores. (No specific Lores shared, counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] [FORGE-RITUAL] You planted a set of instructions, on how to perform a miraculous feat. (Share "The Forge's Redemption". Counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] [WINDIGOS] You made it convincing. You made it look secret. You even simulated a burn mark, to pretend they tried to destroy this "document". But in the end, you warned them about the ticking bombs. (Share knowledge about the sealed Windigo's existence. Counts as "one" evidence)

[X] Plan: Everything Bagel
-[X] [SABOTAGE] You planted several conflicting, contradictory, and downright false documents. As long as they fall for it, this will cause heads to be scratched. (Attempt to hinder and obfuscate all investigation efforts. Counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ZERO] You only planted some very vague, but educative, information about the Lores. (No specific Lores shared, counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] [FORGE-RITUAL] You planted a set of instructions, on how to perform a miraculous feat. (Share "The Forge's Redemption". Counts as "one" evidence)
-[X] [WINDIGOS] You made it convincing. You made it look secret. You even simulated a burn mark, to pretend they tried to destroy this "document". But in the end, you warned them about the ticking bombs. (Share knowledge about the sealed Windigo's existence. Counts as "one" evidence)
 
Talon Tiger Dino said:
A reminder that a failed FR inflicts a Wound. And without the Lores, it is stupidly hard to hit that Forge 100 DC.
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Hence my muttering about having Cadance smuggle in a set of reagents in a diplomatic pouch or summat, but that still wouldn't resolve the problem of letting anyone else do it. I really must reiterate, similar to that whole discarded Dreamlands discussion there is nothing stopping us from developing or "discovering" the Redemption at a later more suitable date. This is not our only and singular opportunity.
 
Venerable Ro said:
nothing stopping us from developing or "discovering" the Redemption at a later more suitable date.
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The Will of the Woods mentioned it would be in old books when she gave us the task to find it.

Given how we have Baldomare we could find those old books.

Though if I had to make a guess we have an expedition already that could grant us old books with the ritual in them.
 
I'm quite curious about what exactly happens if Velvet dies.

My memory is telling me that would make the Sons disappear because their life is dependent on Velvet's(not sure about that) but what happens with Soft Sweeps is even more interesting, because she is not the Daughter yet, but is slowly developing into her.

Assuming the Victory conditions remain the same would we need to start again with Glory or the Wolf? Because without Velvet to do Regrettable Actions no new Sons can be born and without her progress in the Mansus the lock can't be reached so Soft wouldn't be able to open it.

At least if that happens Harmony is still on the table.
 
DelightedOne said:
My memory is telling me that would make the Sons disappear because their life is dependent on Velvet's(not sure about that)
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I don't think Ash is able to be killed that easily.

I'm guessing our daughter will take over life support for the other two sons.

DelightedOne said:
because she is not the Daughter yet, but is slowly developing into her
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She's still a wolf even if not fully grown.

DelightedOne said:
and without her progress in the Mansus the lock can't be reached so Soft wouldn't be able to open it.
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???

Yes it can Soft just has to climb up herself.

On the bright side Soft will probably get Selene and Cadence as Apostate allies.

DelightedOne said:
At least if that happens Harmony is still on the table.
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No it's not. Not for a wolf.
 
Shaper47 said:
Yes it can Soft just has to climb up herself.
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I meant that Soft wouldn't be able to reach it as easily as Velvet, like we would start again on Glory and I'm pretty sure I said that.

Shaper47 said:
No it's not. Not for a wolf.
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If even a changeling can change why not a not-full-Wolf?(She needs to be activated before becoming one for real)

Since we have no idea, Word of Bird or hints about Harmony flat out rejecting Softie for what she was turned into(unlikely because Harmony is forgiving as fuck and Soft isn't even aware she died and came back as part Wolf) I would prefer to wait before believing anything is or isn't possible in a future Harmony Path.
 
We would have to lower the DC by a full -40 for the investigators to clear the DC. At most they have +25 best in the world -5 paranoia. And even then they need a 99 or 100 to find anything.
 
[X] Plan: Forge Lore One
-[X] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[X] [LORE-ONE] You planted something that, in its own narrow way, has some practical use. (One Lore shared, counts as "two" evidence)
-[X] [FORGE-RITUAL] You planted a set of instructions, on how to perform a miraculous feat. (Share "The Forge's Redemption". Counts as "one" evidence)

I want to give the Bureau a lore, and paired with the ritual it's likely going to be Forge.

If we can then pretend it just "clicks" with Velvet, she can start making reagents for bureau rituals, and if we have Cadance OR Celestia do the ritual (for Alicorn magical bonuses) then it could actually work out.

I think it's reasonable to assume Forge is one of Celestia's lores. I think she had a +50 alicorn bonus, didn't she?

50+10= +60. let's add +30 or even +40 from a reagent we make, and she has really good odds, and she could probably be convinced to try and heal Shining Armor, and maybe even Twilight, by herself. the introduction to the lores might also allow us to train the bureau (or have Eclipse trained) as a cadre, for another +10.

Forge is also, hopefully, a distraction from Lantern.
 
Shaper47 said:
A Changeling is not part of a God.

Soft is a real wolf just like Selene was a real Alicorn while she was sleeping.
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When were the Sons stated to be part of the Wolf instead of his children like Windigos?

Soft is explicitly growing and turning into a wolf, that is even what the last Stain represents: her transformation being completed.
 
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