General chat thread

[Treble]

Canada is basically a US protectorate, and that's how I always think of it. A poor man's USA, only fit for being a sidekick.

 

[evildice]

Uh no it was called the Apotheosis of Washington and that was well before we get into like American Shinto.

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Thinking about Shinto priests who kicked godly asses... hmm...

"The divine roots of the Liber-Tree must, from time to time, be watered by the blood of Tyrant-Gods."

Someone could use that metaphor do a fun spoof of American politics -- probably not on this forum, of course. Nobody try here.

 

[TanaNari]

Canada is basically a US protectorate, and that's how I always think of it. A poor man's USA, only fit for being a sidekick.

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More like a mascot, or maybe a pet. America's psychotic little hat.

I believe for you guys, that role's filled by Scotland. Up to you to decide if they're any good at it.

Someone could use that metaphor do a fun spoof of American politics -- probably not on this forum, of course. Nobody try here.

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*Looks over at all the CK2/3 fics here.*

*Looks over at the After The End mod*

Hmmmmmm....

 

[vyor]

Apotheosis of Washington | Architect of the Capitol

Painted in 1865 by Constantino Brumidi, the Apotheosis of Washington in the eye of the U.S. Capitol Building's Rotunda depicts George Washington rising to the heavens in glory, flanked by female figures representing Liberty and Victory/Fame and surrounded by six groups of figures.

www.aoc.gov

And yes the great shrine in honolulu venerates George and Abe as Kami.

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Strictly speaking, anyone or anything that is venerated or honored after death would be a kami.

Yes, this means Elvis would be a kami.

As is this dog:

Spoiler

And this boat:

Spoiler

There's a reason "shipgirls" are a thing.

 

[TanaNari]

the Apotheosis of Washington

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One piece of art does not a religion make. Secular or otherwise.

Strictly speaking, anyone or anything that is venerated or honored after death would be a kami.

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Strictly speaking, doesn't require death or veneration. The most accurate English translation for kami is "spirit", not "god".

Per Shinto, your laptop has/is a kami, as well as your pet dog. All objects, creatures, and even concepts do. Some are far more venerated than others. Some are feared and hated. But everything is a spirit, and therefor a kami.

Living people get a separate distinction because religions tend to take that attitude, but upon death you're as much a kami as any other.

 

[FTR2017]

But everything is a spirit, and therefor a kami.

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Man, I now pity all those condom kami's that get born every second!

 

[TanaNari]

Man, I now pity all those condom kami's that get born every second!

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If it makes you feel any better, the belief is apparently compatible with Buddhism and its wheel of incarnation. So, presumably, condoms are incarnated from people who deserve it.

Probably Nazis or something.

 

[evildice]

Per Shinto, your laptop has/is a kami

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Not my laptop.

It's definitely got either an oni or an akuma.

 

[SuperPulp2789]

Untrue.

Canada has about 2/3rds the population of the UK.
And that's even before factoring in how Canada cheats and doesn't count state assisted suicide as suicide. The UK does, and it's a crime there.

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Speaking of suicide rates, gotta ask, is it the rate of higher development and/or higher standard of living or sheer population density?

China's still considered "developing" and I think it still has the family structure of living with your parents, or at least the husband's family….so not as "alone" as the more "nuclear" West

Yet it has a scarily high suicide rate to the point they have safety nets installed for people killing themselves off

Suicide from what I can tell, occurs more where a person feels more alone….as odd as it sounds, I think people can feel alone within a "community/family/group" but I am not sure

I dislike my college, but I do remember some lessons/theories, that suicide rates increase the better off the population, in part because better off populations have less of a sense of family

 

[TanaNari]

Speaking of suicide rates, gotta ask, is it the rate of higher development and/or higher standard of living or sheer population density?

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There are more theories than I care to list, and most of them are probably a factor.

The only thing we can say with true confidence is that mental illness increases suicide rates. In particular, the chronic anxiety and depressive disorders. Most of which are neurochemical in nature and thus fundamentally random.

While women are more likely to contemplate suicide, men are more likely to attempt it and far more likely to succeed.

And Japan's numbers are complete BS. See, in Japan, the culture doesn't like the idea of unsolved crimes, especially murder. So if they can't find an obvious suspect, they label the death a suicide. To keep their numbers nice. Victim blaming at its finest.


Also- a lack of sunlight might exacerbate other underlying conditions, making you more likely to see suicides in colder climates and during the winter months. But even those are a minor impact.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

Religiosity may also play a role.

Suicide probably seems like a less appealing way of escaping from your problems if you believe it's gonna get you a one-way ticket to the infinite torture chamber.

 

[SuperPulp2789]

There are more theories than I care to list, and most of them are probably a factor.

The only thing we can say with true confidence is that mental illness increases suicide rates. In particular, the chronic anxiety and depressive disorders. Most of which are neurochemical in nature and thus fundamentally random.

While women are more likely to contemplate suicide, men are more likely to attempt it and far more likely to succeed.

And Japan's numbers are complete BS. See, in Japan, the culture doesn't like the idea of unsolved crimes, especially murder. So if they can't find an obvious suspect, they label the death a suicide. To keep their numbers nice. Victim blaming at its finest.


Also- a lack of sunlight might exacerbate other underlying conditions, making you more likely to see suicides in colder climates and during the winter months. But even those are a minor impact.

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I had an elder brother once….I have this feeling these days that even long before, he wasn't all that happy regardless of how much cash there was on hand and what friends and family he had

Frankly, kinda was contemplating suicide a LOT going back at least 6 years ago….stuck in what could be said to be an unintentionally psychologically abusive relationship….may have been growing before even that, safe to say I look on the root causes/people responsible and now think she's just a moronic bipolar bitch with loads of issues and a culture she uses to justify them

We Chinese(I'm Chinese-Filipino on both sides)are pretty fucked up

Religiosity may also play a role.

Suicide probably seems like a less appealing way of escaping from your problems if you believe it's gonna get you a one-way ticket to the infinite torture chamber.

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Religion also kinda helps foster a community via the church/temple

Even that dies down as over time, a growing number of people are just going there with no real faith to begin with and just seeing it as a cultural obligation

 

[FTR2017]

If it makes you feel any better, the belief is apparently compatible with Buddhism and its wheel of incarnation. So, presumably, condoms are incarnated from people who deserve it.

Probably Nazis or something.

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Nah, nazi souls most likely end up becoming the kamis of septic tanks and latrines.

Politicians, on the other hand ... ? I now believe it'd be deliciously ironic that they who fucked up over millions while discarding their wishes become the ones getting fucked then discarded.

...

Only for the cycle to repeat itself!

 

[Oth]

I met a girl at a play party who let me test her claims that she could orgasm from scalp massages. Does that count?

Should have come up with an adorable and heartwarming show that makes an entire generation of American kids start using your accents and slang like the Aussies did.

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Believe there was an entire kerfuffle about Peppa Pig and the "Peppa Effect" conditioning young children into developing British accents worldwide.

Media is a powerful thing.

Religiosity may also play a role.

Suicide probably seems like a less appealing way of escaping from your problems if you believe it's gonna get you a one-way ticket to the infinite torture chamber.

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Holdover from the medieval times in my opinion, to deny the serfs and plebs the easy exit. Still rings as sadism to this very day, denying a person their right to choose for such a basic thing.

Everyone knows nobody will lift a finger anyway.

 

[SuperPulp2789]

Believe there was an entire kerfuffle about Peppa Pig and the "Peppa Effect" conditioning young children into developing British accents worldwide.

Media is a powerful thing.

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It's more that they learn English by mostly watching stuff in English, especially when there are no subtitles

From what I have heard, the reason guys from Nordic Countries speak with British and/or American Accents is that there is something called a "language regulator" and they prefer "British-Oxford", they also watch lots of American and British stuff. The results can be very weird or uncanny. Though, frankly I consider British-Oxford as just sounding like listening to an upper class British asshole.

My country, the Philippines, particularly for Private Schools requires English from before elementary, it gets to the point we barely even HAVE a native accent whilst speaking english

 

[Oth]

It's more that they learn English by mostly watching stuff in English, especially when there are no subtitles

From what I have heard, the reason guys from Nordic Countries speak with British and/or American Accents is that there is something called a "language regulator" and they prefer "British-Oxford", they also watch lots of American and British stuff. The results can be very weird or uncanny. Though, frankly I consider British-Oxford as just sounding like listening to an upper class British asshole.

My country, the Philippines, particularly for Private Schools requires English from before elementary, it gets to the point we barely even HAVE a native accent whilst speaking english

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True. Posit sometime in the medium-far future all of humanity will homogenise into a singular "City/Metro" culture, with the only functional differences being geographical location and the local nation/corporation/union/guild presiding over the area.

Like giant football clubs, of a sort.

 

[SuperPulp2789]

True. Posit sometime in the medium-far future all of humanity will homogenise into a singular "City/Metro" culture, with the only functional differences being geographical location and the local nation/corporation/union/guild presiding over the area.

Like giant football clubs, of a sort.

Click to shrink...

Even the other third world countries I have gone to and the ones I see pics and videos of, kinda have similar aesthetics as Western ones, clothing wise as well

Now there's a dystopian SciFi idea, enforced homogeneity, barely any differing architecture styles, make everything "modern" and/or a run down slum

Kinda reminds me, I was reading/listening to some Edgar Rice Burroughs books/audiobooks

Jungle Girl was set in a "lost world" hidden within Cambodia

Outside of names, clothing and titles and some cultural and religious differences and technology level. Felt very much like any other pre-modern civilization, the "exotic" stuff dies down quick when you just see all these "foreign cultures" in action…boringly mundane….but very easy to tell it's NOT the boring medieval European settings that pretty much all modern fantasy sticks to

Seriously, there was more to the pre-modern world than Europe. I have only read one book series set in an India-esque continent with India-esque castes and practices.

 

[vyor]

One piece of art does not a religion make. Secular or otherwise.


Strictly speaking, doesn't require death or veneration. The most accurate English translation for kami is "spirit", not "god".

Per Shinto, your laptop has/is a kami, as well as your pet dog. All objects, creatures, and even concepts do. Some are far more venerated than others. Some are feared and hated. But everything is a spirit, and therefor a kami.

Living people get a separate distinction because religions tend to take that attitude, but upon death you're as much a kami as any other.

Click to shrink...

If it's not venerated or honored then it would be a yokai, not a kami.

 

[TanaNari]

If it's not venerated or honored then it would be a yokai, not a kami.

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... You do know that, definitionally, yokai are kami, right? Granted, yokai tend to be more of the "harmful spirits", but an evil spirit is still a spirit.

 

[vyor]

... You do know that, definitionally, yokai are kami, right? Granted, yokai tend to be more of the "harmful spirits", but an evil spirit is still a spirit.

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Yokai aren't necessarily evil. They are the same type of spirit, but akin to, say, Pinus glabra and Pinus resionosa. Same genera, different species epithet (that yokai can turn into kami and vice versa is... eh, metaphysics stuff). Very similar plants to one another, can even cross breed them, but they are different enough to classify them differently.

Or, for a less physical example, it's similar to how an astronomer and a chemist are both scientists (aka spirits) but they don't exactly do the same stuff.

 

[TanaNari]

Yokai aren't necessarily evil

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Dude. Right there in the very sentence you quoted.

tend to be

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Or, for a less physical example, it's similar to how an astronomer and a chemist are both scientists (aka spirits) but they don't exactly do the same stuff.

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Except, again, kami is a broad term. It would be accurate to call them "scientists" and then yokai are one subset. Except kami isn't so narrow a term as 'scientist' and is more accurately as broad a classification as 'person'.

At most, you might make the argument that yokai are 'supernatural creatures' like ghosts and apparitions, rather than physical objects like most kami tend to be. Which is a very recent definition that doesn't apply to most of Japanese history. And sort of ignores all the 'haunted objects' yokai of history.

And also ignores how some kami have natures as broad and nonphysical as 'love' and 'trade'.


Kami are spirits. All spirits. Including human. Yokai are a specific subset of ghostly spirits that tend toward the destructive. Not that there aren't plenty of destructive kami overseeing everything from war to disease to death in childbirth to suicide.

Sometimes, the tradition acknowledges a particular yokai as a kami. Take the kappa, for example. A yokai that goes around pulling souls out through the butthole. And also a river/lake kami.

Or the Tengu- a yokai, also a forest and/or mountain kami.

Even wikipedia gets this right:

Kappa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tengu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SuperPulp2789]

One of my pet tortoises died, apparently it ate a rock whilst it was doing the daily sun bathing in the yard, according to the veterinarian

It was a baby tortoise, it was with me for like two years

God

 

[Rakdos92]

One of my pet tortoises died, apparently it ate a rock whilst it was doing the daily sun bathing in the yard, according to the veterinarian

It was a baby tortoise, it was with me for like two years

God

Click to shrink...

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[SuperPulp2789]

I'm sorry for your loss.

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Thanks, I'm at the very least glad the vet said that the rest don't have problems that can lead to death

Just need to balance their diet a bit more to grass than just vegetables

I was really hoping to see them all grow big

 

[Hatless Nuance]

Strictly speaking, anyone or anything that is venerated or honored after death would be a kami.

Yes, this means Elvis would be a kami.

Click to shrink...

Strictly speaking, doesn't require death or veneration. The most accurate English translation for kami is "spirit", not "god".

Per Shinto, your laptop has/is a kami, as well as your pet dog. All objects, creatures, and even concepts do. Some are far more venerated than others. Some are feared and hated. But everything is a spirit, and therefor a kami.

Living people get a separate distinction because religions tend to take that attitude, but upon death you're as much a kami as any other.

Click to shrink...

Man, I now pity all those condom kami's that get born every second!

Click to shrink...

I believe it has been noted, in Shintoism and some fantasy settings that run off similar belief/magic systems, that while everything has a soul, not everything necessarily has a human-like, sentient, sapient mind. Experience, time, and external forces are what can make any given kami into an actual person. But the more "important" to the natural or human order something is, the more likely it is to have such a presence.

The first RPG that I ever GMed was in a setting that was heavily based on fantasy Japan, and the object spirit angle was a riot. There was a minor recurring character that was a defector from a race of spider-centaur people made of soulless nightmares who mostly lived by tormenting others and effectively owned an entire region of the setting. He was married to his hat. The PCs were at his wedding.

 

[BlackHadou]

Thanks, I'm at the very least glad the vet said that the rest don't have problems that can lead to death

Just need to balance their diet a bit more to grass than just vegetables

I was really hoping to see them all grow big

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Cherish them and be grateful for the time you've got. Losing a pet is always too hard.

Take care man.

 

[SuperPulp2789]

Cherish them and be grateful for the time you've got. Losing a pet is always too hard.

Take care man.

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I'm more worried now for the rest, they die easily, I remember similar occurring for my family's other pets

Simple stuff that we just didn't notice, heatstroke for my brother's dog, my sister's cat dying of something all of a sudden, my tiny iguana from many years ago dying to due to the sun and now my baby tortoise

Apparently, it had something to do with their diet, too much vegetables not enough grass, even though they're left in the grass as required a few hours in the morning with sunlight….may have started eating rocks for some reason related to their diet….now eating something else or more vegetables and medicine in the hopes they can just easily process it all

 

[evildice]

The first RPG that I ever GMed was in a setting that was heavily based on fantasy Japan, and the object spirit angle was a riot. There was a minor recurring character that was a defector from a race of spider-centaur people made of soulless nightmares who mostly lived by tormenting others and effectively owned an entire region of the setting. He was married to his hat. The PCs were at his wedding.

Click to shrink...

Ah, of course, the sequel to The Man who Mistook his Wife for a Hat.

 

[Treble]

This may sound facetious,but I've noticed that the best way to tell that an artist is good is by checking if they made good barefoot art.

Never fails.

 

[vyor]

Dude. Right there in the very sentence you quoted.





Except, again, kami is a broad term. It would be accurate to call them "scientists" and then yokai are one subset. Except kami isn't so narrow a term as 'scientist' and is more accurately as broad a classification as 'person'.

At most, you might make the argument that yokai are 'supernatural creatures' like ghosts and apparitions, rather than physical objects like most kami tend to be. Which is a very recent definition that doesn't apply to most of Japanese history. And sort of ignores all the 'haunted objects' yokai of history.

And also ignores how some kami have natures as broad and nonphysical as 'love' and 'trade'.


Kami are spirits. All spirits. Including human. Yokai are a specific subset of ghostly spirits that tend toward the destructive. Not that there aren't plenty of destructive kami overseeing everything from war to disease to death in childbirth to suicide.

Sometimes, the tradition acknowledges a particular yokai as a kami. Take the kappa, for example. A yokai that goes around pulling souls out through the butthole. And also a river/lake kami.

Or the Tengu- a yokai, also a forest and/or mountain kami.

Even wikipedia gets this right:

Kappa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tengu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Click to shrink...

Wikipedia is wrong on this, and if that's where you're getting your info then its no wonder why you have a mistaken impression. Wikipedia doesn't have have kitsune ranks as just one major thing they have completely wrong. You know: Tenko, Zenko, Kuko, Kiko...