The Forgotten Son: A Benjen Stark SI

[TheHoneyPot]

Honestly, Benjen should have run to the wall. Better than ending up with Barbrey lol. Your MC lack a backbone. He is a pushover.
We will see how this story continue.

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Whilst I wouldn't want to read about him at the wall... I think you're right about him being a push over. He's too soft and reactive to be a lord of anything.

As things stand hes probably going to give the reigns to his wife to be, follow her orders and get chucked the moment that nephew of hers arrives...

 

[rahad]

Whilst I wouldn't want to read about him at the wall... I think you're right about him being a push over. He's too soft and reactive to be a lord of anything.

As things stand hes probably going to give the reigns to his wife to be, follow her orders and get chucked the moment that nephew of hers arrives...

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Exactly. He is getting bossed around by a 19 years kid. In medieval time, lady and female did not have lot of authority. She would have never dared to speak like this to Ned in front of everyone. Heck, the whole Ben x Barbrey is weird. It Is very rare to see a young lord wedding a Widow. They want a ''pure'' maiden. Benjen is also a important lord coming from house Stark. I'm surprise by the choice of wife...

We will see if he improve or stay a push over. He need to have some charisma if he want to be a lord.

 

[KingOfIreland777]

I feel like to much of your modern day view is influencing your story. Barbrey would never dare speak like this to Ned in front of everyone. You keep forgetting that Ned is the third most powerful lord in Westeros. Good friend with the king and the hand of king.

Honestly, Benjen should have run to the wall. Better than ending up with Barbrey lol. Your MC lack a backbone. He is a pushover.
We will see how this story continue.

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Eh would be boring on the Wall but it could be a funny crack fic .one-shot I'd give you that and I love writing crack fics, my modern-day views are defo influencing things; I won't deny that in the slightest but the Barbrey thing was meant to be completely out of order, that was the point of it.

it's only the third chapter, things take time to develop and the term not having a backbone is subjective, the MC isn't particularly used to being in Westeros they just got there, but with the power of bullshit they will get to a certain point.
Unrelated but I think it's funny:
When I was first thinking of this story a couple years back, the idea was in my head to place Jon on the throne, wait and wait til Robert died and dragonwolf it up, but I didn't, I'd find that boring as fuck but I suppose it could be played for laughs. It just wasn't for me.

 

[KingOfIreland777]

Whilst I wouldn't want to read about him at the wall... I think you're right about him being a push over. He's too soft and reactive to be a lord of anything.

As things stand hes probably going to give the reigns to his wife to be, follow her orders and get chucked the moment that nephew of hers arrives...

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lol that's not going to happen dont worry but I appreciate that people care enough to be worried that it might

 

[Jimjam]

I like the story so far, though this part kinda stood out to me:

"And I am also the ruling Lady of House Dustin, or have you forgotten the widow's laws of Queen Alysanne as well?" Barbrey hissed back.

[...]

"Do I have the right of this, Lord Stark?" Barbrey spat. And here we go. I muttered to myself. "You wish for me to give up the lands and titles that I am entitled to by the laws of Westeros, just to be a way to make sure your precious wife doesn't have to worry about your bastard boy roaming around the castle?"

[...]

Since Lady Dustin will be remarrying, the widow's laws no longer apply, and the lands of House Dustin will be given to the closest male relative.

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This isn't the Widow's law as it stands. It's basically to keep the women from being tossed out of her home, not that she gets to keep her position/rights that she had as the wife.

In times of peace, it was not uncommon for a man to outlive the wife of his youth, as women die in the birthing bed, and in times of war, the men may perish in the fight, leaving behind widows. Due to this, men would often take a new wife, whose presence was resented by the children of the first wife, who would often feel no bonds of affection for her. Upon the man's death, his heir could and would often expel the newly widowed wife, reducing her to penury; in the case of lords, the heirs might strip away the widow's prerogatives, incomes and servants, reducing her to no more than an impoverished boarder.

To rectify these ills, in 52 AC King Jaehaerys implemented the Widow's Law, reaffirming the right of the eldest son (or daughter, where there was no son) to inherit, but requiring said heirs to maintain surviving widows in the same conditions they enjoyed before their husband's death. A lord's widow, be she a second, third or fourth wife, could no longer be driven from his castle, nor deprived of her servants, clothing, and income. The same law also forbade a man to disinherit the children by a first wife in order to bestow their lands, seat or property on a later wife or her children.

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https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Widow%27s_Law

Basically,

• A wife does not inherit her husband's lands. Which is not a problem if it's her child who inherits.
• If the man had an older child from a previous marriage, they inherit. If he has no children, then another family member inherits.
• The widow could then be forced out by the new lord or heir, who has no bond to her and might resent her.
• The Widow's Law prevents this. It grants the widow the right to remain on her husband's lands and continue receiving income until she dies or remarries—not to fully inherit the title or lands.

So in terms of law, Barbrey is wrong. She's talking like she's entitled to lands and titles by default, when in canon she wouldn't be, especially since she and Willam had no child, she just gets a roof over her head and allowance.

Basically it's kinda like alimony.

 

[KingOfIreland777]

I like the story so far, though this part kinda stood out to me:



This isn't the Widow's law as it stands. It's basically to keep the women from being tossed out of her home, not that she gets to keep her position/rights that she had as the wife. Basically,

• A wife does not inherit her husband's lands. Which is not a problem if it's her child who inherits.
• If the man had an older child from a previous marriage (or no children), then another family member inherits.
• Without legal protection, a widow could be forced out by the new lord or heir.
• The Widow's Law is meant to prevent this: it grants the widow the right to remain on her lands and continue receiving income until she dies or remarries—not to fully inherit the title or lands.

So in terms of law, Barbrey is wrong. She's talking like she's entitled to lands and titles by default, when in canon she wouldn't be, she just gets a roof over her head and allowance. As "Lady Dustin" what she really gets is:


Basically it's kinda like alimony:

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I see, I appreciate that you explain your point! I think I am fine with her being wrong, though, in this case, to me it adds to her just kinda flipping and being OTT with little right to back it up, given who she is talking to.

Alas Ned had it covered with the marriage agreement; the Dustin lands are out of her control the moment she is a Stark, when I first started this story and posted this chapter elsewhere over a year ago, someone did suggest having her keep the Dustin lands, but that's just...yeah no.

So a OC Dustin relative it is

 

[Ahtu]

I was no fan of the ethno-supremacist bullshit

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It's not an ethnic question, but about strengthening ties to your subordinates, and the customs of your kingdom. The ethnic bit is ultimately well and truly coincidental.

It won't matter if the one he marries has a Dornish mother, or that the Stark children have a Tully mother. What matters is that they hold to Northern customs, and represent opportunities for the other houses to marry into the ruling house of the region.

lol that's not going to happen dont worry but I appreciate that people care enough to be worried that it might

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It's more than worrying about where the story might go, it's worrying about "where the story realistically would lead."

A man who so clearly shows he has no spine when pressed, can not reasonably stand up to someone like her. He will bend, and eventually he will break.

Bending over backwards to appease a sullen, vengeful, and accusatory widow - Is a terrible way to start things off, and lets her think she can get away with continuing acting like that. Things will not truly improve, for as long as that is how you handle it. She will never respect him, even if she grows to like or tolerate him.

It might not necessarily be THAT bad if he wasn't accepting all these concessions that she's so rudely demanded, when he had nothing to do with any of it. He's making himself a doormat. The worst way to start a relationship.

The fact that you think it's all fine, means (to the ppl reading) that you don't really understand relationships or human behaviour.

 

[KingOfIreland777]

It's not an ethnic question, but about strengthening ties to your subordinates, and the customs of your kingdom. The ethnic bit is ultimately well and truly coincidental.

It won't matter if the one he marries has a Dornish mother, or that the Stark children have a Tully mother. What matters is that they hold to Northern customs, and represent opportunities for the other houses to marry into the ruling house of the region.


It's more than worrying about where the story might go, it's worrying about "where the story realistically would lead."

A man who so clearly shows he has no spine when pressed, can not reasonably stand up to someone like her. He will bend, and eventually he will break.

Bending over backwards to appease a sullen, vengeful, and accusatory widow - Is a terrible way to start things off, and lets her think she can get away with continuing acting like that. Things will not truly improve, for as long as that is how you handle it. She will never respect him, even if she grows to like or tolerate him.

It might not necessarily be THAT bad if he wasn't accepting all these concessions that she's so rudely demanded, when he had nothing to do with any of it. He's making himself a doormat. The worst way to start a relationship.

The fact that you think it's all fine, means (to the ppl reading) that you don't really understand relationships or human behaviour.

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Yikes getting a little bit personal there buddy calm it down a little, you don't know the first thing about my life, this is the internet so don't you come by and tell me that I don't understand human behaviour, relationships and emotion, it's a fic, that's all. What gives you the right to come here and be so rude? If you don't like the story then leave, but don't you dare make personal remarks about me. At the end of the day, I don't know you and you don't know me, I have tried my best to take your critique in stride, but I will not let you come at me with this personal remarks about me as a person, get over yourself.

You are more than welcome to make remarks about the story if you're going to insist on reading it, I really don't care, but do not come at me as a person.

 

[Ahtu]

yikes getting a little bit personal there buddy calm it down a little, you don't know the first thing about my life, this is the internet so don't you come by and tell me that I don't understand human behaviour and emotion, it's a fic, that's all. What gives you the right to come here and be so rude? If you don't like the story then leave, but don't you dare make personal remarks about me. At the end of the day, I don't know you and you don't know me, I have tried my best to take your critique in stride, but I will not let you come at me with this personal remarks, get over yourself.

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I wasn't getting personal? I was commenting on how the MC was coming across to the ppl making these comments. And how you were coming across in your responses. That is not a personal attack, even if it might feel like one.

I see though that you took it personally. You did not have to, but I can understand why you did.

I only meant to help you understand WHY ppl keep saying these things, as it seemed that you were missing their point. You might have understood, but if so you were not responding to their takes. I merely did my best to bridge that gap.

There's a difference between coming across as something, and it actually being true.

I will not bother to give more suggestions if you say you don't want them. GL with your writings.

PS. I did not say that your story was bad. I was trying to explain what ppl had problems with. And before that, I was commenting on the sense of realism conflicting with the marriage proposal - Based on RL medival practices, and what we've seen of GOT and ASOIAF.

PPS. And also some confusion on the relevance of the beer cans, although this chapter explained that well enough.

 

[KingOfIreland777]

I wasn't getting personal? I was commenting on how the MC was coming across to the ppl making these comments. And how you were coming across in your responses. That is not a personal attack, even if it might feel like one.

I see though that you took it personally. You did not have to, but I can understand why you did.

I only meant to help you understand WHY ppl keep saying these things, as it seemed that you were missing their point. You might have understood, but if so you were not responding to their takes. I merely did my best to bridge that gap.

There's a difference between coming across as something, and it actually being true.

I will not bother to give more suggestions if you say you don't want them. GL with your writings.

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You know what buddy, it's not worth it. Again you don't know the first thing about me and yet you double down claiming what you say is true about my personal character based on nothing but that's your opinion at the end of the day, it doesn't mean it's true.

Shit happens in my real life, and I do my best to handle it; the last thing I want to deal with is people making personal remarks about me. That's fine if the story isn't for you, I have answered every critique as best as I can, with courtesy, but learn when you're crossing the line. Keep it to the fic, not me.

Good luck to you as well.

I have no hate for you, but this really irked me.

 

[Ahtu]

You know what buddy, it's not worth it. Again you don't know the first thing about me and yet you double down claiming what you say is true about my personal character based on nothing but that's your opinion at the end of the day, it doesn't mean it's true.

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That was... Not at all what I did?

Shit happens in my real life, and I do my best to handle it; the last thing I want to deal with is people making personal remarks about me. That's fine if the story isn't for you, I have answered every critique as best as I can, with courtesy, but learn when you're crossing the line. Keep it to the fic, not me.

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Again... Not what I did... I tried to clarify what seemed to me to be a communication issue between you and your readers...

Not sure how I can either have said to "have meant that", nor doubled down here... Are we reading the same messages? O . o

Aight, this is getting too weird for me. Let's drop this convo.

 

[KingOfIreland777]

That was... Not at all what I did?



Again... Not what I did... I tried to clarify what seemed to me to be a communication issue between you and your readers...

Not sure how I can either have said to have meant that, nor doubled down here... Are we reading the same messages? O . o

Aight, this is getting too weird for me. Let's drop this convo.

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Alright, I will take your word that you didn't mean for it to be personal then and let bygones be bygones, but maybe it was a bad idea to post here when I already had the chapters written and on AO3.

I enjoyed the different takes overall though, it's just I am not willing to go and change stuff that I already wrote and uploaded, it is what it is.