The Problem with Rule 8 and QQ's moderation in regards of

Right. Might as well take the plunge and explain why QQ's moderation is, at best, questionable, and their insistence on abiding by rule 8 detrimental at best. I'm probably gonna get hit by the mods due to the inherent impossibility of criticizing rule 8 without falling afoul of it , but eh, probably worth it.

This thread is sparked mostly by TotalAbsolutism mod decision in the Sietch thread. To clarify before anyone claims I'm posting this out of spite: I have very little animosity towards them. This post is mostly borne of frustration towards a rule that is poorly designed, poorly implemented, and just kinda poor in general.

I've noticed that the QQ mods tend to be fairly selective when it comes to rule enforcement, especially when it comes to rule 8. Their determination of whether something constitutes a breach is highly arbitrary.

https://forum.questionablequesting.com/threads/inane-crap-on-sv.560/page-895#post-2203074

For an example: this post where someone compares SV to Robbespierre. For those unaware, Robbespierre was a famous french political radical who operated during the french revolution. In essence, this person who is directly referencing and discussing a political discussion is calling the people in said discussion political extremists.

The mods determined this wasn't a breach of rule 8.

For another example, the trap discussion on QQ, or rather, lack of it. QQ has, effectively, banned any discussion about whether its a slur....including, effectively, any reasoned complaints on the subject. They've effectively banned discussion about whether a potential slur is a potential slur, with no real regard towards the people this would hurt.

Then we have the Sietch thread, where they've effectively banned any discussion ABOUT the sietch: the reason it was founded? Forbidden. The focus of the site? Forbidden. The behavior of its members? Effectively forbidden barring extremely minor shit like Carl Manvers posting about how dakimuras are the superior waifu or whatever.

Meanwhile, discussion about how a particular industry exploits its workers is merely off-topic: https://forum.questionablequesting.com/threads/inane-crap-on-sv.560/page-1072#post-3126088

A discussion about female on male abuse only got deemed political once Rakdos...Well, Rakdos'd.

https://forum.questionablequesting.com/threads/stupid-shit-on-sb-rants.8689/page-250#post-3136245

In general, Rule 8, as currently enforced, doesn't seem to be "no politics" so much as "no politics we disagree with or find unsightly". Like, per the wording of the rule, anything pre-20 years ago is fair game, but I don't particularly think the staff would be too happy if I made a thread about the legacy of reagan and the harm he's done to the gay community.

Fundamentally, rule 8 exists because the QQ founders wish to remain apolitical, but so long as they have an entire section of the forum dedicated to shitting on groups you don't like and ranting about perceived negative behavior in others, it will always be political, because fundamentally what behaviors are and aren't acceptable/negative/harmfull/obnoxious is in itself political.

To use a quote from the post that inspired this...

If it was a forum for just creative writing, it wouldn't have rants. And ranting about other people will, inevitably, lead back to politics one way or the other.

 

If you want to bitch about politics go to SB, SV, or some other site.

 

This is missing my point: you can't meaningfully divorce rants from the subject of politics. All QQ's attempt has done has produced a situation where people dance around the subject while the staff unevenly enforce their own rules.

 

Damn. I knew you fucks were salty about having your incessant attacks on TS shut down on account of them being bullshit, but I didn't think you were this salty.

 

And its still better than outright talking about it.

 

Imagine being so salty about another site existing that you need the mods to change the rules so that you can whine about it more.

 

???

I'm...not really that salty? Frustrated sure, but I'm not really angry. Like, if I was salty, I would have pulled a repeat of what I did to Megaolix awhile back, not make a post explaining my gripes.

Not really: arbitrary enforcement of the rules is inherently unfair, and unfairness, when perpetuated by staff, is always a net negative to a site.

 

I mean, this isn't just about Sietch, and like, legit I don't even really care about Sietch that much one way or the other: I think its a dumb site, sure, but I don't reserve a place in my brain for hating it for the same reason I don't spend time being angry at youtube comments: no real point. This is actually a problem I've had an issue with since, like, before the Sietch was even a thing. The thing with the Sietch was just the tipping point.

Hell, pretty sure I've offhandedly mentioned I don't like rule 8 a ton of times before, the only difference here is that I went somewhat in-depth for my reasons so.

 

You say that as if anyone actually fucking cares about you talking up the time you supposedly dunked on Megolix or whatever.

For someone who doesn't care about it, you spend an awful lot of time bitching about it on rittern's discord. Lemma run a quick check.....looks like more than 3000 posts made (granted, not all one of the dedicated bitching channels, but still a ton). Including immediately running back to the discord to whine about how "seitchers" are making fun of you for being so super butthurt.

"It's not about TS, it's just that getting the slightest amount of push back from being allowed to whine about TS motives me to write this whole bitchfest about how awful it is we're not allowed to whine about TS, getting it an entire paragraph in my bitchfest, and working with a bunch of my retarded anti-TS buttbuddies to give it a look over before I posted it".

I'm not mad that you're lying, I'm just disappointed that you're telling lies that are such obvious horseshit and so easy to see through.

 

'Whine.'

Maybe don't spin lies Oscar, especially when the truth is right there for anyone to see.

 

Uh huh. You realize that very little of that discord has anything to do with the sietch, right? Like, I think I maybe have ten posts on there directly related to the sietch in the past two months. And, like, sure, I complained a bit, but primarily because I was frustrated what with you and yours trying to make this about you.

Look, if you don't want people to get your name wrong, you should exist while on the internet.

In seriousness tho, sorry, lemme fix it.

 

To be precise, there are 41 channels, of which one is about the Sietch. It's amazing some of the projection these people are capable of; their haven only exists because everyone else won't have them shitting up their places, so in their twisted little minds it follows that a bastion of those who they consider their opposition has to be all about them. Frankly, the Sietch and it's grubby little malcontents are irrelevant to the discord server beyond the potential for comedy their flailing generates.

EDIT: But this is a derail and I should stop.

 

Seriously, this thread isn't about the sietch, and I'll ask people to kindly stop making it about the sietch.

 

...Classism? Worker-capitalist relations? This is literally the founding issue of communism dude.

 

Yeah, but my point was that comparing someone who exists today to a political radical is still comparing them to a political radical and thus a political insult. Like, if I compared (off the top of my head) Gamerlord to Mao Zedong for supporting something related to housing, it doesn't really matter that Mao has been dead for a long, long time, its still highly politically charged. (To be clear, I was just using that as an example: Gamerlord has, as far as I'm aware, no stalin-ish traits).

Which is a harmful decision. Like, "We are X" isn't really a meaningful rebuttle to "You are X, and that is bad". You're effectively saying that if any trans person takes issue with the term, they have to grin and bear it. You wouldn't do that to black people getting upset over racial slurs, or gay people getting upset over homophobic slurs, so why is it transpeople have to deal with that?

(To be clear, I don't think you're neccesarily transphobic, I just think that rule 8 has led to an atmosphere hostile to transfolk.)

Again, this isn't really a rebuttal: yes, it became a shitstorm, but you literally cannot discuss the sietch's founding without discussing the PM, which combined with the plethora of other stuff deemed political about the sietch, means you can't discuss, like, 90% of the site.

The exploitation of workers is an inherently political subject. Sure, it might be the games industry, but exploitation of the working class is still exploitation of the working class.

Okay but my point was that it wasn't deemed political until Rakdos went and was overt about it, despite, again, the inherent political nature of the subject.

And in general, you're missing my point: theres an incredibly uneven enforcement of the no politics rule thats resulted in unfair results, which has ultimately resulted in a worse site.

I mean, the solution there would just be removing the rule 1 relaxation. Because as long as people are allowed to yell vitriol at each other, there'll be flame-wars, rule 8 or not. Like, the solution to people being awful to each other isn't to ban politics that can potentially lead to them being awful and hope that stops them from getting mad at each other in a subfora specifically designed so that angry members can yell at stuff, its to ban being awful.

Again, the problem is, 90% of the inanity on the sietch is political, one way or the others, with maybe the exception being carl manvers and his dakimakura obsession I've heard about once or twice.

I mean, I'm sure its not a conscious political bias, but its very obvious to someone whose paying attention that there's at least a subconscious bias, resulting in "things we agree with not said in an unsightly manner" not pinging as politics.

 

Nice weasel words "directly related". Now if we add in all your posts on the channels bitching about SB not going after people who you don't like the politics of (often because they're part of TS's starting membership) or in the channel talking about the PM debacle that started this whole mess, that post gets real high, real fast.

You created this entire topic because you were butthurt about the mods telling you and your dumbass buddies to knock it off with bringing up politics in the midst of your flailing attempts to attack TS.

And there's like 3 more devoted to attacking anyone you disagree with politically on all the other SB splinter sites, and one for whining about the PM issue, all of which have a fair amount of cross topic whining.

If you look up projection in the dictonary, the listed definition isn't "a guy on discord channel run by and full of posters banned from SB for bring toxic little shits, accusing other forums of bring created because no other place will tolerate thier userbase".......but it should be.

I've seen the server archives of your discord, dude. The bitching channels are fucking massive files compared to any of the other channels.

"This is a derail, but before I drop the point lemma spew some more bullshit and try to get the last word in".