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What happens when you realize that the government has hid something massive from you?

Discussion in 'General' started by Accelerator, May 25, 2019.

?

What to do?

  1. Make a religion

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Panic and run for the hills

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
  3. Join a petition to ask for more reveals and information

    2 vote(s)
    5.7%
  4. Begin investigating

    4 vote(s)
    11.4%
  5. Calling for impeachment and punishment for these lies

    6 vote(s)
    17.1%
  6. Meh

    19 vote(s)
    54.3%
  7. Others

    3 vote(s)
    8.6%
  1. Accelerator

    Accelerator Not too sore, are you?

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    Like... for men in black, for example.

    Let's say a explosion/ alien invasion/ leaked documents/ sudden attack on new york occurred, and then the secret is out. It turns out that the government has been lying to the citizenry for years, keeping things secret, that are extremely important and earth-shattering. Stuff like 'There are alternate dimensions' or 'Aliens exist and we've got spacecraft in our hangers' to 'we've made first contact with aliens from alternate dimensions and told no one' or 'we've gone to another planet, stole some tech, and that's how we got that fusion reactor'.

    Or 'magic using aliens are real, and we didn't tell you, and we've been working with them for years'*

    Here's the thing. How would you, and those surrounding you, react? As in, angry? Ask for impeachment? Demand access to the tech? Ask if the aliens are hot? Try and make contact with the aliens?** Start a new religion? Panic?

    Please also tell us your country name.

    *Think Magical girl Nanoha

    ** Aliens are all alternate dimension humans
     
  2. John_Oakman

    John_Oakman Come touch my hentai machine

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    Go on infowars and expose the truth to the world!


    From USA obviously.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
    Expendable Mook likes this.
  3. FVS

    FVS Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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    Well if it's there's aliens levels of secrecy my model of the world is extremately wrong and requires serious updating.

    I guess what I would do depends a lot on the specifics of the sitiuation obiously.

    I might be angry, but that kind of depends on why they keep the secret.
    In fiction the excuses are often pretty lame though.
     
    ShadowStepper1300 likes this.
  4. dylanredefined

    dylanredefined Getting sticky.

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    UK here The Official secrets act covers a lot so meh. Have signed and seen some top secret stuff. Which I can't talk about mostly cos It was stuff with top secret labels on it which I got to move. Didn't even get a cool mook outfit.:(.
    UK government routinely lies and tells half truths to the public at large sometimes for good reason ( Not going to be any Normandy style landing in the Falkland's) Oops we lied! sometimes for horrible reasons. Northern Ireland.
    So government might well have good reasons to have kept secrets.
     
  5. Accelerator

    Accelerator Not too sore, are you?

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    To avoid mass disruptions and panic.

    The secrets are big enough to shift things. Like ww1. Or industrialisation.
     
  6. Aaron Fox

    Aaron Fox I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    The thing is that in a multi-nation state world, governments need a certain degree of freedom of action to function. There are things that have to be done behind closed doors, political sausage has to be made, so on and so forth. That sort of thing can't be done in a purely democratic way either (like the military, police, internal security, espionage, and the like can't be done democratically because that ruins any chance of doing what is needed)... and people have forgotten that.
     
  7. DuskAtDawn

    DuskAtDawn Of the Thousand Faces

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    Personally? I probably wouldn't do anything, unless the thing affects me directly. Honestly, I'd be more concerned with the leak itself, and what it means for our national information security. Maybe I'd make plans to stay inside for a while - there'd probably be riots by people less apathetic than me, and I don't really want to get involved in those.

    We already know the government keeps secrets. We already know those secrets are big. That's nothing new, the world's been that way since humanity first decided that groups need leaders.
     
  8. Scherazade

    Scherazade My avatar’s now a D&D sha’ir!

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    I’d be keen to unravel the entire spaghetti of lies. Would be nice to not just know ‘aliens exist’, but under what circumstances was it led to becoming a secret, what dangers and funding issues has been caused by this, what is the gain of revealing the secret, what is the gain of it having been a secret, and also the infinite questions I would have for actual aliens (what do you eat what do you breathe how do your sexes work what is your internal anatomy culture culture i want to know your culture myths and legends and stories I want all of it what is your native tongue like how do you think humans are doing compratively do you have genitals have any of you banged a human from our world and if so how was the experience from 1-10, etc etc etc) (even if they’re alternate dimension humans- there must be some variance or my perspective on how nature vs nurture works is broken)

    But in the Uk as someone else said there is official proceedure for state secrets and it is generally meh unless it’s something that’s caught the public’s interest.
     
    Vorian likes this.
  9. Accelerator

    Accelerator Not too sore, are you?

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    They're human aliens.

    Several reasons.

    1. Avoidance of societal chaos. Yes, cliche. But true. Aliens. Human aliens at that. With different religions, ways of life, politics, and other sciences. And magic. The world will go crazy.

    2. Magic. As it turns out, we're the massive exception. Magic exists. And magic is easy. So easy in fact, that its a minor miracle we haven't discovered it yet. Just plain old 'normal science'. Not the mana-powered math of MidChilda. Not the Hypergeometry of the Yeventine Caliphate. Not the Flesh-warping powers of the Sarkic Empire. Not the matter-manipulating powers of the T'renshigan Federation. Not easy to master... but its easy enough to completely disrupt life on earth. Imagine terrorists being able to craft tons of Sarin and VX gas. Imagine alt right extremists crafting nuclear bombs in their garages. Nihilistic environmentalists creating world-destroying pathogens in kitchens. And worse. Imagine entire firms being outproduced by fabrication and construction magic. Muslims going completely bonkers at the idea of magic (I asked them. All magic is considered to be from the Devil.). The governments are currently trying to prepare for this. For massive disruption. Things will change, but hopefully no one will die.

    3. Immigration. The outer places.... are kinda better than Earth. Higher tech. Higher standard of living. Highly liberal (different social history, different liberties and restrictions). It can easily be post scarcity.... if it wasn't for the constant, non-stop wars. Know what that means? Immigration. Lots of it. Many will be attracted by the allure of higher science, higher tech, and the exoticness of alien worlds. Think of it as brain drain. Constant, brain drain.

    4. Fear. They're afraid. Afraid of what will happen when you open up. Afraid of history on earth repeating, on a grand scale. Afraid of what will happen to themselves, and their countries if they were to open up to dimesional space. And since the voters might disagree.... well, let's not release it yet, shall we?
     
    Aaron Fox likes this.
  10. january1may

    january1may I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I... don't really trust our Russian government very much, to be honest. I suppose I might join a petition, though I'd be still rather wary of the government (or, for that matter, the aliens*) finding me and doing something bad to me because of that. Probably more likely to join the petition if it already has at least several hundred thousand signatures.

    I don't think asking for impeachment/removal is usually much of an option in Russia (well, it is technically always an option, but it is essentially guaranteed not to work), and in the cases where it is actually a meaningful option, this is usually because the replacement candidate is worse. So not that either.

    Panic might be a possibility depending on how disrupted things are already, but unlikely in the initial stages. In particular, it is very possible that by the time I realize I should panic, it will be too late to do that in a useful way (i.e. not enough time to properly escape, and/or no remaining place to escape to).

    Other than that... I guess "meh" is the closest remaining option in the poll, though it's not quite right either. I think I'd personally describe it as "hope for the best".


    *) um, the aliens are relatively benevolent, right? Because I can totally imagine the aliens sympathizing with a particular Earth ideology and very efficiently oppressing everyone who isn't part of it, and/or propagating their own ideology and oppressng everyone who isn't part of that...
     
    Vorian and Haplessly Incompetent like this.
  11. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END.

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    There's truth in this. The problem with closed doors, though, is that they've become a hotbed of policy laundering - betraying your constituents without giving your constituents a target to lynch (either literally or at the polls).

    More on-topic - seek out the magic and attempt to become a wizard. Probably one of those wizards that hides away performing forbidden magic and then shows up with a giant undead army, because while most people who know me say I'm a good person I do have some rather profound ethical differences from most people I've met and I do think society would run better if everyone answered to me* (this is not the same as thinking I can run everything better than experts in that field; I am capable of delegation).

    *The main reasons I'm not out to overthrow the world order are that 1) I do not have the resources needed to launch a coup and have no real means of getting them, 2) even if I could make things run better, the big issue with dictatorships is always succession. Magic gives individuals greater power and often offers the prospect of immortality, potentially circumventing both problems.
     
  12. Accelerator

    Accelerator Not too sore, are you?

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    Eh... Mostly white hats.
     
  13. FVS

    FVS Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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    I think 1 3 and 4 are stupid reasons to keep something like that secret (and well I'm not sure why the aliens would collaborate to keep it secret)
    I can perfectly imagine some governments doing it for those reasons though.
    If it was only that I would be extremately angry, especially if the aliens have better medicine and life extension (wich would probably mean most deaths on earth are the gobermet's fault, which is like the most evil ever committed in consecuentialist terms, and personaly infuriating because it would mean the deaths of some of my relatives are the government's fault )

    Of course I would demand more info , and try to figure out more, especially because keeping something like that secret for a long time means everything I though I knew about the government and how opsec works is wrong.

    I don't care if it's a big disruption, one doesn't deal whith big disruptions by keeping it secret and not doing anything obious about it, big disruptions can be good anyway, and keeping stuff secret is extremely deficukt and limits a lot your options.


    But 2 changes everything.
    If there's magic and people knowing about it is big existencial risk on the level of pubicaly avaliable nuclear weapons or bioengeniered plagues , then I agree that it should be kept secret.

    Like there are few reasons to kept your citicens in the dark about whole alien civilizations but this qualifies.

    It also means either its less powerful for the aliens, or they are extremately competent or extremately controlling of their population.
    (or maybe other reasons like, it's only so dangerous because we have no defenses against magic or that the scale of their civilization is so big that a few billions of people dying is no big deal and happens often).

    If it's to prevent the end of the world I'm fine whith the government being careful about that kind of stuff and keeping it secret.

    Entire firms being outproduced by fabrication and construction magic is not that much of a problem though, it's a big deal but old business getting outcompeted by new tech is just bunisness as usual.

    Now if how to do magic has gotten out we are fucked anyway and we probably should be emigrating to the probably safer alien worlds before some idiot decides to destroy the world, so I might end demanding more info anyway.
    If not I'll collaborate in whatever I can to keep it secret, though whith suspicions of the magic is dangerous thing being a lie.
     
    Vorian likes this.
  14. Vorian

    Vorian Know what you're doing yet?

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    From the US.

    I'd be absolutely shocked at the unexpected display of competency in keeping a secret like that longer than 5 minutes. :p

    Whether I'd actually be mad depends on the specifics of the situation but I'd definitely be looking into somewhere less batshit insane to emigrate to at that point.
     
  15. Accelerator

    Accelerator Not too sore, are you?

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    What would make you mad?
     
  16. Vorian

    Vorian Know what you're doing yet?

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    Basically if the intent was to bury the information indefinitely rather than a controlled release over time to try and minimize potential problems.
     
  17. Accelerator

    Accelerator Not too sore, are you?

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    Do we have any chinese here? Any opinions?
     
  18. John_Oakman

    John_Oakman Come touch my hentai machine

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    From which China?
     
  19. OverMaster

    OverMaster I'm fed up with everything

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    Venezuelan here, and Venezuelan government is trying its best/worst to make us and the rest of Latin America China Junior, so I'll just say that whenever they hide some vast and gross criminal misdeed from us we call that 'every day ever'.
     
    Vorian and Haplessly Incompetent like this.
  20. Accelerator

    Accelerator Not too sore, are you?

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    China. PRC.

    I'm from Singapore, and if this were to happen, I'll think: "Damn, its like someone chose us to be part of a movie or something! Cool!"
     
  21. John_Oakman

    John_Oakman Come touch my hentai machine

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    Oh. While can't exactly speak for myself I could guess that half of my relatives back in the mainland won't give a fuck while the other half would probably be part of the conspiracy. The PRC government is not all that competent or even centralized despite the popular perception. I mean, even the great firewall is more of a joke than anything especially when the people supposed to monitor it frequently cross over to surf blocked sites.