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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Hell's Razer

    Hell's Razer Passive Member

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    But then he would be WRONG on the internet!!
    It is almost as bad as stealing forty cakes.
    And that is terrible.
     
  2. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    He may be attacked if he tries that and they may be able to actually kill him, given that this is a Primarch and the Emperor we're talking about, so they would have some extreme security.

    He also has no idea if he can even do it because of the damage they sustained.
     
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  3. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    About a year and a quarter, I think.
    Thank you, corrected.
    More significantly, how will they take the news that the Tau Empire can monitor Imperial Navy fleets anywhere in the galaxy?
    No.
    He's in 40K. No where is safe.
     
  4. storybookknight

    storybookknight Know what you're doing yet?

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    It's nice to see Ciaphas Cain show up, but a little disappointing that we don't get to see him being clever and he's only present so that Paul can style all over him. Cain is one of the characters from 40k I really like so seeing him turned into fuel for Paul's superiority masturbation feels a little cheap.

    Also, the fact that Paul knows exactly who Amberley Vail is and has a message for her is going to set off some alarms in the Inquisition, especially because they likely have no idea who he is.
     
  5. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    He may have thought trying to sound clever in front of someone who can potentially kill him but was willing to negotiate is a bad move.

    He may also be tired after fighting those cultists.
     
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  6. King of Frost

    King of Frost Wishing I was somewhere colder no doubt.

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    I don't know much about 40k but what I do know says that guy was extremely reasonable considering the faction he's from.
     
  7. Agent Orange

    Agent Orange Versed in the lewd.

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    Mr Zoat, I have one question regarding Paultector.

    Last time we saw him after the Crisis was in the Wyrm segments and he apparently managed to both make a lantern on his own and got it fitted into power armour Mumm-Rana made for him. He noted that it was 'built into the cuirass' of his power armour. The first image that comes to mind is Alan Scott's Kingdom Come armour. Please tell me it isn't so :/ Just because Iron Man made having a glowing chestpiece weak point look cool doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. Wouldn't an extra well armored (and preferably non-transparent) 'backpack' segment work just as well? It would be slightly less obvious 'shot me here' weak point at very least.
     
  8. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Mumm-rana made it. He thinks of it as a personal lantern because that's the design the Guardians used; his is actually fully integrated into the armour and doesn't really stand out.
     
  9. Agent Orange

    Agent Orange Versed in the lewd.

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    Oh? She made his lantern as well? Not just hooked it up to the armor? I thought he wanted to do it himself so he would have enough power to search the space for 'creatures like Mumm-Ra'? At least that's how he planned it in the post-Crisis chapter?
     
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  10. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    She made armour that can recharge his ring.
    The problem with that plan was that he had no one who could check his work. It went worse than the main SI's first attempt.
     
  11. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    Well...

    Realistically to the setting, to Cain, Paul's attempted info dump, would have probably identified him as either a pawn of the Eldar, a pawn of Chaos, or a Pawn of the Necrons. Because they are the only groups who might know what he just claimed to know.

    Of course, Cain's not an idiot, so he would almost assuredly play along with Paul until he could contact the Imperium proper about things.
     
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  12. Nervaqus987

    Nervaqus987 Experienced.

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    Vae, one sentence added on does not change her backstory in anyway.

    She is someone who got herself deliberately possessed by a Keep of Secrets, dominated it, sucked it dry of all its powers and then went on to do the exact same thing to two more and was going for number four when Slannesh went "Honey, let's just end-run this process and make you a Daemon Princess yeah?

    I know being deliberately obtuse is your entire shtick, but come on. This is low hanging fruit even for you.
     
  13. Coda

    Coda I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Missing closing quote.
     
  14. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
  15. storybookknight

    storybookknight Know what you're doing yet?

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    Oh don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that what happened in the fic here was unreasonable, or that Paul's actions were inappropriate per se. I think what bugs me here is more of the structural problem inherent with Paul pulling his Outside Context Problem routine on world after world after world.

    In the DCU, if Paul occasionally showcases a situation where he has superior logic and reasoning to Batman, there are plenty of opportunities for Batman to later either show him up in return, or simply display excellent judgement on a separate matter, so it doesn't come across quite as strongly that Paul is showing off at Batman's expense. However, these snippets from the WH40K universe feel unlikely to be a full-fledged story at any point, and appear to be centered around the Tau regardless, so the odds that Ciaphas Cain will be able to do anything to redeem himself in the eyes of the reader are slim.

    What I feel like this accomplishes from a narrative perspective is that it takes a character who I quite like and puts them in the position of looking like a fool because they don't have quite the same omniscient perspective and cosmic power of the Almighty Paul. Again, from a story-logic perspective, this is completely reasonable; and looking at the overall story Paul pulls shit like this all the time, but it feels like a particularly egregious example here... maybe because it also feels like from a dialogue perspective Ciaphas is wildly out of character and way too pompous here - but again, that's just my personal opinion.
     
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  16. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    You aren't wrong about Cain being sorta out of character in the last chapter.

    Nor about the other stuff.

    That said, you never know, we may get a future chapter where Paul hears about the Imperium launching an Imperial Crusade and conducting Exterminatus on the planet he just saved from Chaos because Cain did what Cain does and told his superiors about Paul.
     
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  17. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    I suspect that last point is due to the fact that we're not hearing his internal monologue. Or rather, the internal monologue he added when he wrote his 'true' memoirs. Ciaphas is trying to look confident for the benefit of the soldiers around him to preserve his heroic reputation. Normally, the reader would hear his internal panic. Here, you don't, because the SI doesn't hear it.
     
  18. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    Zoat has made comments indicating that he'd be using the "Lanterns are extremely explosive" thing from the comics.

    Well sometimes from the comics, then again there's also Kyle cutting off a piece of his lantern when he flew into outer space so that Jade could keep the lantern to recharge from. DC, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, what can I say.

    Which means the issue you should have with lantern armor is not where it is, but wearing armor that will explode with enough force to atomize you and everyone around you if it gets broken.....
     
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  19. Flightless Man

    Flightless Man I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    You know good point. Canon flip flips so often it doesn't really matter what you choose as long as your internally consistent in your series run. If you change something from standard in your setting, reveal it in worldbilding not in a vital moment of action where everyone will yell you did it wrong because no one knew you had decided on a specific way.

    Superman in injustice works because we know the premise/change in world from normal. If you write normal superman like Injustice superman and don't explain why, it's bad writing like in Cavils Superman being basically half new 52 superman and half early injustice superman with no explanation for why..

    I don't care if something in a fanfic is wrong from canon as long as the change remains consistant in new fanfic/new authors comic run. I don't mind as much if current Batman writer retcons stuff from an earlier writers run (if done sparingly) but when they screw up something they wrote I'm a harsh critic.

    Zoat has done a very good job of doing so, any changes made to our idea of canon are consistent in entire story. I like seeing how Zoat will adapt older storylines and characters/races because it has a consisent logic i can follow even if on many ideas my logic thread takes the ideas somewhere else. every change and addition of new settings is done naturally with only a few feeling like a couple chapters too many were spent with non YJ verse characters (specifically some space arcs where we never saw the people again so it felt like too much filler in one area. The only other thing I'm like 5% irritated by is when universes change, sometimes it feels like it wasn't done during a cliffhanger but halfway through an episode(95% of time he does time it better though)
     
  20. Agent Orange

    Agent Orange Versed in the lewd.

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    I have honestly never heard of such a thing. Not that it surprises me - because comicbook logic. If it's a glowing power source it must be highly explosive! Comic book writers tend to equate nuclear reactors with nuclear bombs which I personally find more than a little ridiculous even if I can understand it from a narrative perspective (putting limits/downsides to a plot point tech or adding more drama). So until you made this comment the worst thing I would expect from a chestpiece mounted lantern getting pierced (because it's a stupid 'shoot me here to depower me' point) is the wearer getting soaked in orange "radiation" (to continue the nuclear comparison). Kinda like MCU Tony Stark got fucked up over the course of months because his "lantern" was 'leaky'.

    If that's really the case I very much doubt this particular version of Paul would have had his lantern integrated so deeply with his armor. Also being one stray shot away from disintegration kinda beats the entire point of wearing a power armour.

    Though in some ways it's a perk - if you're paranoid about getting captured and having your tech stolen and reverse engineered this is the ultimate scuttling mechanism! If Etherals had it than that meddlesome kids XCOM would have never had a chance to make use of any of their tech against them ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
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  21. transhumansage

    transhumansage I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    How?
     
  22. Fellow

    Fellow Know what you're doing yet?

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    'Something, something, noncanon. Something, something, you're wrong. Something, something, I'm right.'
     
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  23. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    I hadn't heard of that bit of lore myself until Zoat pointed it out, if that makes you feel better.

    My internal response was "Who did that make sense to?!?!?!?!? Kingdom Come Alan! Amalgam Iron Lantern! Alpha Lanterns with built in batteries! The Indigo Tribe carry their power staves into combat!"

    Zoat mentioned it so I looked and lo and behold, absolutely right. For example, in Blackest Night, Stewart blows up a whole bunch of Black Lantern zombies by shooting a lantern, which triggered the BOOM.

    As for kittyfarmer Paul and his armor, Zoat's words weren't that it was lantern armor, but that it was armor designed to recharge his ring so he thinks of it as his lantern.

    Those aren't the same thing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
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  24. jasonh23761

    jasonh23761 Know what you're doing yet?

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    There are so many just randomly powerful or things that either hint at breaking the power scale or do so outright, especially in the more vague artifacts choices and in 30K. Admittedly that's a huge part of 40K's setting, the theme that humanity has lost so much and is sliding into the abyss, but through a combination of sheer fanaticism and size, it's taking millennia to actually die out.

    Plus some of the Black Library writers like to have mind numbingly powerful things that are either implied about the war with the Men of Iron or other parts of the timeline. Like one of the Horus Heresy books mentions the Men of Iron destroying suns. I'll see if I can find the actual passage, as I'm not entirely sure how QQ feels about linking to 1d4Chan.

    Edit: Found the source, it's from a Horus Heresy audio drama titled Perpetual and is from Ollanius Pius' point of view and has a segment where he remembers the lost horrors that once plagued humanity.

    Plus a literal Man of Iron shows up in Blackstone Fortress and while it's one of the better characters, it's not quite all the Men of Iron were hyped up to be.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
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  25. jasonh23761

    jasonh23761 Know what you're doing yet?

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    Being extremely rational, ostensibly in an attempt to save his own hide, is basically his whole shtick. Still my favorite 40K series and the one I'd recommend to people who want to get into the lore without being overwhelmed.
     
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  26. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    He messed with subspace...

    That's like a giant homing beacon for the Necrons because of how closely they monitor and guard that sort of technology. In fact, the only way they would miss that is... Well, they wouldn't... And at least one or more of the Dynasties would send ships to find and destroy whatever was doing it...
     
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  27. transhumansage

    transhumansage I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    is this canon? can you cite some sources?
     
  28. Threadmarks: Cold Iron (part 6)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    26th June 2012
    18:43 GMT


    As I fly towards London I feel a momentary twinge of guilt that I'm not… Hunting the Sheeda holdouts down myself. Intellectually, I know that if Sivana's already got all of the answers then this is a far more effective use of my time. But orange is not the colour of the intellect. It's the colour of the stomach, and my stomach is hungry for the destruction of the people trying to take a wrecking ball to my uplift project.

    With the provisional agreement of Russia and China and with America thinking about it, I need to work out what other countries I need to speak to directly and which will simply fall in line. Sivana made actual field test attacks in Britain on two occasions, has killed British nationals and caused significant amounts of financial damage, and…

    I don’t know. I'm pretty sure that Boris would take my advice if the threat here were a little more imminent, but the Sheeda appear to have avoided London. Probably due to Mr Ondaatie's prescience. I'm not sure what his brute force is like, but the Sheeda have been working by utilising their advantages to avoid risky fights. Having him shut down their magic once they're far enough inside the city to trap would doom any attacking force. Not sure what would happen if they parked a Harvest Dreadnought over Downing Street and tried bombarding the place. There are jet fighters over the capital constantly, but as far as I know Britain doesn't have air-to-air nuclear missiles.

    Alright, the Prime Minister is expecting-.

    "Huuuuman."

    I stop in the air, frowning at my rings. Then I check that I'm not too close to a densely populated area, because I suspect that someone-.

    A bolt of orange strikes my environmental shield, knocking me back slightly in the air. I frown-.

    Another bolt, and this time I get an impression of the desire which created it. The firer wanted.. to.. remove an aggressor, a frustratingly militant distraction-.

    That's my desire. How I felt during the fight in Ipswich.

    Strange, but… Okay. The third bolt strikes, but this time I absorb it, fitting it neatly into my own desire network.

    Charge increased. Eighty eight percent charge available.

    Normally I'm not a huge fan of being shot, but this appears to be net harmless.

    "Is that it?"

    "Huuuuman. I'm n-."

    "Well done, you've successfully identified my species."

    I vaguely remember from the comics that orange light is weak against attacks from orange light, and that… Appears to hold somewhat true, based on Dox's reports on Orange Lantern training. If my Corps ever fights the Sinestro Corps or the Green Lantern Corps my people are going to be astonished by how well their constructs hold up. But that's due to how clashing desires undermine each other. Using my own drives against me isn't going to work. They're a part of me. And no one knows my desires quite like I do.

    "Is there a point to this?"

    I look around, empathic vision turned up a little to see if it lets me bypass whatever invisibility system my trying-to-be assailant is using. No such luck. London's only a short hop away if I feel like running for it.

    I don't feel like running for it.

    I can't really adopt a cross-legged pose while wearing my armour, but I draw my legs in slightly and… Unfocus, trying to reach into the Honden and feel the flows of desire around me.

    "You know the bald man. Sivana." The voice is echoing, not really coming from any one place. But it's a form of communication, a desire to send a message from one mind to another. That… Narrows it down ever so slightly. "Where is he, human?"

    "One step ahead of you. And I really hope that you've got a better weapon than my own desires to use against me."

    Plenty of people want to confront me; a handful of people who have heard about my attempts to get Sivana pardoned and who want to stop me, to explain and share the hurt they've experienced at his hands. Some people still haven't gotten over the eyes. Some people want to know why I -mostly as a representative of the superhero community in general- haven't dealt with this so they can get back to their lives, get back to safety.

    "You can't meaningfully threaten me, you can't meaningfully threaten anyone I care about, you can't offer me anything I want and you certainly won't convince me of the righteousness of your cause. What do you want?"

    The air a short distance away undulates green, then a female Sheeda is vomited forth. The outline of the armour is… Mostly the same as what Anarawd wore, but I can see patterns of minute runic inscriptions along the edges and over the head. It also has a decidedly female cast to it; the hips are emphasised, the dragonfly wings attached to the back are slender and shimmer with rainbow light and the cuirass is moulded to display her breasts. Reminds me a little of the second Forager, but with iridescent green armour rather than white.

    Internal only.

    "Orange Lantern to Batman. Have encountered Sheeda just outside of London. Will attempt diplomacy, then desire control."

    I get an acknowledgement 'blip', so I turn up my empathic vision while continuing to reach for her in the Honden.

    "Do you have a name?"

    "I am Lady Aeres, Highborn of the Sheeda."

    "I'm the Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps, and you're intruding. If you surrender, I will see that you are treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention rules on the treatment of prisoners of war."

    "If you kneel to the Queen, she will offer you dominion over this-."

    "This world? Really? The only reason I don't rule this world now is that I don’t want to. Why would Queen Gloriana offering it to me after she's levelled it make the prospect more appealing?"

    I shake my head inside my armour.

    "Did you think this through?"

    "Yes. My Queen ordered me to make the offer, and I did. Now I may kill you without disobeying her."

    Add in 'wants to kill me'-. Really? That's petty. But it narrows it down.

    "Nice rules lawyering. But I really don't understand why you'd want to. I mean, given all of the destruction the Sheeda will carry out before they're killed off, I'd much prefer to just offer you a new planet to settle. Then you wouldn't need to Harrow the past any longer. You could just build your own civilisation in peace."

    "Why would I want peace? I am built for war, bred for it! A billion years of evolution and artifice tell me that I am your superior!"

    She thrusts her right hand in my direction, and in a flicker of runes a spear appears in it.

    "I am the perfect creature designed to kill you, Harold Jordan!"



    "I'm going to pretend that you didn't say that."

    "Do you fear me? Does the knowledge that none of your vaunted skills will matter against me threaten to unman you lest you block it from your mind?"

    "No, it's just this thing where people from the future have no idea who I am. It's getting a bit annoying."

    "Because we Sheeda have superior intelligence and know your most closely-guarded secrets!"

    "Because I'm not Harold Jordan. I am, however, mildly annoyed."
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
  29. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    7th Edition Necron Codex.

    Possibly bits in the 5th Edition Necron Codex too.
     
  30. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Versed in the lewd.

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    Time to blow the Sheedas' minds by explaining that their understanding of time travel is outdated and that everything they know is most likely now obsolete. Also, since this thing is created to kill Hal, she's going to have a very hard time with Paul. I also want to know Hal's reaction to this.
     
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