1. Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. If you wish to change your username, please ask via conversation to tehelgee instead of asking via my profile. I'd like to not clutter it up with such requests.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. We have added another rule, please check the Rules post for more information.
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Due to some issues with Freenode, the QQ IRC Channel is moving. See here for more information.
    Dismiss Notice

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

Loading...
  1. Flightless Man

    Flightless Man Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2020
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    1,697
    Really my only frustration is the packaging on the story and that some changes in PoV feel like the edit/PoV change is too soon. Its more that how Zoat breaks them up doesn't build suspense for the event for me with the shorter changes for only like 2-3 chapters.

    it taking several chapters for me to shift gears and get back into a pov and the ones that annoy me are the ones were he jumps to Grayven for 2-3 chapters of character development and the pacing is so different i need a couple updates for me to get into the inteded mindset. then its goes back to The other PoV with drastically different tone. It's a minor annoyance, not major.
     
    Cuchulin and AngelicKnight. like this.
  2. Sockmonkey

    Sockmonkey Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    2,274
    Their videos fucking rule. They teach history and folklore in a fun interesting way. Highly recommended.
    Leaving things dangling until next season is why I quit watching The Walking Dead.
     
    Cuchulin and Someguy Somewhere like this.
  3. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    9,242
    Likes Received:
    382,729
    Thank you, corrected.
     
  4. Threadmarks: Sauntering Downwards (part 4)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    9,242
    Likes Received:
    382,729
    21st August 2010
    10:12 GMT -7


    "It's Julio, right?"

    The drug trafficker and protection racketeer holds a revolver to the head of a… I'm going to say 'prostitute', but honestly she might just be the girlfriend of one of the gang members.

    "GO FUCK YOUR MOTHER!"

    "Ah, I'm sorry. I did French and German. The jay is supposed to be pronounced 'you', isn't it. In Spanish. Which would make you: You-lio. You-lio."

    "Yeah, that's how you fucking pronounce it. Ow, my fucking back."

    I ignore the man on the floor.

    "Right? I don't know how often you've been in this situation, but this is a hostage negotiating technique, for establishing a rapport with the hostage taker. To enable us to understand that the other isn't some malevolent force of nature, but a person we can each talk to."

    Of course, since I'm a sociopath with a power ring, 'malevolent force of nature' isn't a terrible description. But I keep up the reassuring smile anyway as I send an orange thread into the under floor crawlspace and towards You-lio.

    But I am learning. He and several of his friends have insulted my mother, sister, grandmother-. None of them being clear whether they were talking about my father's mother or my mother's mother, though given how Spanish handles gender that might be a translation issue. They've tried insulting me more directly, and threatening both my life and my physical integrity. Hasn't bothered me. People insulting me isn't an issue. Which is tremendously reassuring, because if that formula had made me that aggressive there's no way I could hide-.

    I'd have to reset.. myself.

    "STAY! THE FUCK!"

    Oh, right, the hostage.

    The thread punches up through the floor and piths him, causing his body to lock up.

    "BAck?"

    His eyes still move and his head can still turn a little, but the rest of his body is under my control. I use a hand construct to put the safety on the gun, then calmly walk forward to pluck it from his unresisting hand. His hostage pulls away the moment she realises that he's helpless, making it two steps before tripping and collapsing onto the sofa. She scrabbles around, perhaps trying to keep us both in her field of vision.

    Alright, I think I can call this a success. Deaths? Zero. Response to insults and threats, none.

    Now, conventional morality would say that the correct thing to do would be to hand the apprehendees over to the local police, along with any evidence. Do I want to do that?



    No. As expected, I have no emotional desire to comply with external expectations. Excellent! Progress.

    Not sure I'd call that 'progress', sport.

    'Progress' in the sense that I'm able to accurately predict the outcome of a test based on prior observations.

    So the goal state is to be able to model yourself?

    A goal state suggests that I'm trying to change. At the moment I'm just-.

    The hostage jumps off the sofa and charges me, wrapping her arms-. Hugging me.

    "Thankyouthankyouthankyou."

    "That's quite alright."

    Now, if we evaluate this in utilitarian terms, well, my initial thought is to say that the world is better off without these thugs. Even if concealing things makes life a little hard for me, the expense of a trial, imprisonment, the chance of reoffending as well as the general permissive attitude towards crime this part of Mexican society has developed suggests that just giving all of them an embolism would represent a tremendous benefit to society.

    But if we look at it from a rule utilitarian viewpoint, I've-.

    Still got.. snot on my armour.

    "Ma'am? Would you like me to phone someone for you?"

    "N-no." She steps away, then approaches Julio and pulls a mobile phone from his pocket. "I can-. I can just use this."

    I nod. Now, I was never great at interpersonal interaction, and it's quite likely that I'm missing something here. On the other hand, Batman hasn't said anything about ever doing follow up visits on the victims, so I'm just going to assume that once she's out of sight it's alright for me to just forget about her.

    Ah… Yeah, I'm… Pretty sure that in utilitarian terms it's fine not to spend time on a single individual that could be better spent helping a larger number of people more seriously in peril.

    That is true.

    And I'm not hitting on her, despite her dishabille and emotional vulnerability.

    You know you don’t get points for that, right?

    I'm just making the point-

    I generate immobilisation stretcher constructs and arrange the gangsters in neat rows.

    -that I'm not anything like as dangerous to those around me as we both were worried that I might be.

    I'm not really capable of worry, exactly. So why don't we just-. Ah. I'm not sure that she's allowed to do that.

    What is-?

    "Ma'am?" The young woman looks up from the gangster's wallet. "While I understand the memetic drive to loot the bodies, I'm afraid that's evidence in a criminal case. If you need money for a taxi I'm perfectly happy to give it to you."

    She rolls her eyes but shoves it back into his pocket. I note that she's kept his phone, but… Whatever.

    Alright, rule utilitarianism. People benefit from seeing justice done. The public legal processing of these men will improve people's faith in the justice system and discourage those who would like to bypass it. Particularly if I follow up and detain their competitors. Some of the needs they serve will still remain, but it's not as if small business owners like paying not to have their premises ransacked. The disadvantage of this is that they might get out or.. bribe someone to have the charges dropped. In which case killing them would be the superior choice, because if the system really is that dysfunctional then there's no reason to work within it until it's fixed.

    But I don't have any firm evidence of that, so it's time to contact the police. Probably the Mexican Federal Police, as they're less likely to be on the payroll of local gangsters.

    So, in conclusion, I can fight safely like this, I'm not a threat to bystanders and I can still do work useful to the greater good. Alright, what would I have done differently pre-dosing?

    You'd probably have run this past Batman first.

    Increased confidence. We knew that was a symptom.

    Yes, but it's a symptom because you don't care what he thinks, not because you're more confident in your abilities.

    Our agreement is that I'd obey his orders, not that I'd be his slave. We've never said that I wouldn't take independent action. But, if you're worried about me not worrying, I'll phone him now.

    That doesn't make me worry less.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
  5. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,689
    Likes Received:
    86,367
    'given'

    'if that'

    But you will be in the future.
     
  6. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1,649
    Likes Received:
    5,249
    Now I’m really interested in how different the power ring’s AI is.
     
  7. thebishop8

    thebishop8 Umm, ackchyually...

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2019
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    1,763
    *21st
     
  8. Nervaqus987

    Nervaqus987 Experienced.

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Messages:
    3,342
    Likes Received:
    21,479
    Aren't you usually going on about how he's not in the Book of Destiny? Why would Tangseid be in it when Paragon wouldn't?
     
  9. DrThoth

    DrThoth I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    2,367
    I'm curious to see how Tangseid evades the oath, since I can't imagine him being content to wait out a whole year. I suppose the escape clause allows him to return the lantern to Alan and then take it back by whatever means.
     
  10. Sockmonkey

    Sockmonkey Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    2,274
    IIRC the ring can model an actual functioning brain, so the "snapshot" of his original personality could actually be alive in there. Remember that OL's original personality was from a non-magic/comic book physics universe, so a full working version of his brain can be simulated nothing but raw computing ability, even if the computer is made of the orange light.
     
  11. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,689
    Likes Received:
    86,367
    He may not have made a magic oath like paragon or renegade did, but rather just came to an agreement with Batman on how he'll operate.

    Paragon chose to do the oath because he met Wonder Woman shortly after he met Alan, and she essentially functioned as his mentor, but this version has apparently met Abin Sur and he's technically his mentor, even if they barely interact.
     
  12. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,146
    Likes Received:
    18,340
    I suspect to these guys, there's not much difference anyway. No doubt her 'boyfriend' would put her on the streets if he got tired of her...

    And the ring isn't translating? No, wait, it doesn't do well with names, does it? I mean, it's not unexpected, otherwise you'd get him calling people all manner of flowery descriptions. Seriously, Names are weird to translate...

    Hey, consider yourself lucky you can still feel your legs, jackass. Batman might not have been so gentle.

    Yep, no empathy at all. Clear lack of Compassion. Which would probably make Saul a good option to deal with him... Or the local Indigo tribe.

    Yes, nothing like having a functionally impenetrable shield to render physical threats worthless. Now, if they'd threatened someone he used to care for, that might have gotten a reaction...

    And he's viewing undoing his augmentation, and the corresponding mental alterations, with worry? Making it even less likely he'll ever want to reset himself...

    I just pictured that coming out as a strangled squeak, tailing off into a choking sound... Kind of amusing, really. And a pithing needle construct? He's definitely following the Renegade's style.

    So you're not a thug. Big whoop. Still doesn't prove anything. Seriously, not even a thought to reassure the hostage, given all that fear? Definitely not improved.

    :confused: Uh, That's not how that works, I think...

    Heh. I wonder how much longer he'll tolerate the Ring's chattiness... It certainly wasn't very responsive back during his post-crossover segment, after all...

    So it may be possible for him to relearn Compassion. If he can be bothered to.

    Well... At least he's still polite?

    And am easily distracted, it seems. At least he's not just going 'World would be a better place without you.' and disposing of them.

    Yeah, she's not totally terrified, but she's still not going to trust him. Entirely sensible, in my opinion...

    'For the Greater Good'... yeah, that's a slippery slope there, Tangseid. And as he is, I can see how easily he slides down it from here...

    From her perspective, it'd probably feel like she'd just traded one asshole for another...

    So, not totally uninjured. Broken bones and bruises at the bare minimum, I expect? Depends on his initial approach, I guess.

    Yet the Ring is still fairly lifelike. I wonder just how much he tweaked it early on...

    Honestly, I don't doubt she could get more for the phone anyway. Especially if it's a fairly recent model, rather than a cheap burner.

    Or simply pour gasoline on the whole thing and light a match? That would be the super-villain approach, though... And Tangseid is still trying to play the hero...

    And there goes any remaining hope of him undoing it.

    Again, no empathy. I can see Batman being one of the first people he mind-whammies into a more.. useful form...

    And it becomes more and more likely that he'll apply the Orange kool-aid with every segment...

    It's like a trainwreck in slow motion, isn't it? Every time he stops to check against his 'old self' and decides 'this is fine', he slips further and further away from where he started...
     
  13. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,388
    Likes Received:
    12,038
    I've been wondering from the start, but now I'm pretty sure that the ring might be an assimilated intelligence or something similar.
     
    Gilhelmi and Prince Charon like this.
  14. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,689
    Likes Received:
    86,367
    To a psycho it is.

    I think one of the only times not giving into peer pressure is acceptable is like when everyone starts embracing Nazism.

    I doubt this one will like people talking back to him.

    Doubt he will be.

    That doesn't mean he's not evil.

    The mayor from Buffy was polite, but he was still still a mass murdering demon worshiper.

    Or someone else tweaked it.

    Explains the title of his side chapters.
     
  15. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    8,589
    The way the Ring talks reminds me of Alan, actually.
     
  16. moralrelativity

    moralrelativity Recovering pendant.

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    502
    Likes Received:
    2,239
    I really like this ring.
     
  17. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,985
    Likes Received:
    6,903
    The way I’ve heard it, it’s pronounced Who-lio, not You-lio
     
  18. iamnuff

    iamnuff Connoisseur.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    14,455
    Likes Received:
    47,815
    You know, if we didn't know how this all ended, I'd be rooting for this Paul.

    I dunno, I like the idea of a sociopath who's still doing good.
     
  19. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,258
    Likes Received:
    6,582
    He might not be, but every single Hero he's going around mind controlling is.

    Which means their Destiny is going to eventually kick him in the teeth with a correction.



    The moment he became a sociopath with an Orange Power Ring it was never really a question of "if" he would go bad, but when.

    Heck, even Paragon is close to going bad, and he still has something of a moral center, twisted as it may be.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
  20. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,985
    Likes Received:
    6,903
    I mean, he might have made the world a better place overall in the end? Mind control all the heroes and villains into working for you and all you have left are the normal people, no longer terrified of getting caught in a super battle, and probably with a reduced crime rate. I don’t think he cares enough to mind control an average person or the entire planet and he doesn’t enjoy the pain of other people. He also doesn’t have the time to control the governments of every country, so he doesn’t directly control everything.
     
    Gilhelmi likes this.
  21. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,258
    Likes Received:
    6,582
    And then the Blackest Night happens, and everyone in the universe dies because his Orange Light mind control has rendered everyone incapable of effectively resisting.
     
  22. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,985
    Likes Received:
    6,903
    It’s not THAT bad? Sure, there are no Earth Green lanterns left, but there’s probably a passable replacement among the other green lanterns or something? Maybe Killowog survives somehow and gets hardened by having the Earth lanterns brainwashed/ killed or something? Don’t think it’s been explained what happened to the GLC.
     
    Gilhelmi likes this.
  23. frommerman

    frommerman Getting out there.

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    169
    See this is why you take the tale of Murder Gandhi seriously and set up precommitments to revert yourself to factory conditions prior to attempting something like this.
     
  24. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    9,242
    Likes Received:
    382,729
    Thank you, corrected.
    The Green Lantern Corps is fine, they just haven't recruited any humans.
     
  25. Stsword

    Stsword I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    5,440
    Ah yes, good old Harv. He's more generic psychic than Superman analog though, despite sharing the nom de guerre, Captain Comet is a closer analog, being a psychic FISS from Kansas whose parents were named John and Martha. And both were stated to be the next step in human evolution. Although I read a comic in which Captain Comet's talking dog had a laugh at that one. Apparently DC finally got an author who knew that goal oriented evolution isn't actually a thing.

    And yes, he mentioned an enhanced metaphysique before.

    From what we've seen, Pauls are able to form a soul when infused with energy- Anti-GL grew a soul from the energies of the Lazarus Pit, Sybarite grew a soul from eating demons. Angel Paul probably grew a soul from the angelic energy of Gabriel's wings like She Who Was Formerly Known as Blaze.

    And Zoat has implied that Tangsied in fact has both Eyes of Zoltec.

    So the KISS explanation with the information we have now is that the Eyes leaked on him long enough for him to form a soul made out of Zoltec's god energy.
     
    AngelicKnight. and Cuchulin like this.
  26. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,689
    Likes Received:
    86,367
    I think the eyes may have corrupted him even more, but that his soul could have been something that one of his enthralled magic users gave him, but were both just guessing.
     
  27. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    May 10, 2017
    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    So....he recognizes that he's a sociopath and is testing to see if he can still function, and STILL doesn't reset?

    Like, I don't get it. I mean, obviously he doesn't want to, but even the two alien thinkers of Grayven and Para-Paul would be like "Yeah....this is going poorly."
     
  28. Pez

    Pez Spaceman

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    19,464
    It's the whole 'slippery slope' argument. He doesn't want to reset, so he's proving to himself why he shouldn't, by figuring out how to still work towards the "greater good", and keep what he's gained.

    Remember, few people wake up in the morning saying that they want to be evil. Lex Luthor and R'as al Ghul consider themselves heroes and saviors, not supervillains.
     
  29. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,689
    Likes Received:
    86,367
    Evil Juice is a hell of a drug kids.

    He's basically trying to rationalise his behaviour and prove that it's the right way to act, even if most other rational people would tell him that he's wrong.

    Pretty standard supervillain behaviour.
     
  30. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    655
    He seems to be thinking of himself as a separate person than his pre serum self, so resetting would be killing himself.
     
Loading...