1. Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. If you wish to change your username, please ask via conversation to tehelgee instead of asking via my profile. I'd like to not clutter it up with such requests.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. We have added another rule, please check the Rules post for more information.
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Due to some issues with Freenode, the QQ IRC Channel is moving. See here for more information.
    Dismiss Notice

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

Loading...
  1. Jonn Wolfe

    Jonn Wolfe (Verified Sarcastic) (Not a Wolf)

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2018
    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    9,221
    *Throwing in my two pence*
    1. Permission was not asked, and is the major sticking point.
    2. Whiteeyes mentioned that she would've said yes if asked.
    3. Zoat stayed loyal to what was written.
    4. Vanilla's responses to Paul were rather spot on to her character, IMO.
    5. Points 2, 3, and 4 do not necessarily outweigh point 1.
    In my opinion an apology over it would be a simple courtesy, with mea culpas offered... as point 2 is rather ... eheh ... the point of the whole matter. Honestly, this back and forth is just seems unnecessary to me. I'd really hate for animosity to spark up between them over this.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  2. rthomas2

    rthomas2 _

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    80
    I...huh.

    So a while ago I tried to figure out a “logic” of which emotion should correspond to which color, and I ended up coming to the conclusion that each emotion should represent a combination of the ones to either side of it. I used Zoat’s idea of there being a “sane” version of Avarice as a jumping off point, and ended up having a range of emotions for each color. Paler shades would be more excited; darker shades would be more depressed. The middle shade would then be the “balanced” version of the emotion.

    It seemed to work well: inflamed Avarice would be Fixation, but the balanced version would just be Drive; Anger would be the inflamed version of Passion; etc. This made sense to me, since then Zamaron Love would be a combination of Passion and Compassion; Passion would be a combination of Drive and Infatuation; Drive would be a combination of Vigilance (balanced Fear) and Passion; etc.

    All this to say...I ended up with Teal as Joy. In between Will, which I rendered as Clarity (probably better as Purposefulness), and Happiness—which was in turn between Joy and Hope.

    It’s enough to make me feel like maybe I hit on something genuine. And, in turn, like DC’s mapping of emotions to colors might be significantly less random than I’d presumed.

    Pic, in case people are curious:[​IMG]
     
  3. nobodez

    nobodez Bringer of Context

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,204
    Likes Received:
    5,151
    IMHO, fanfic is fanfic. It doesn't matter if it's fanfic of a commercially published work, fanfic of self-published original fiction, or fanfic of a fanfic. The entire idea of fanfic is that it's transformative work that doesn't require the consent of the original author to be published.
     
  4. Austin Pharos

    Austin Pharos Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    639
    Agreed, but even if consent isn't required, it can still be in bad taste.
     
  5. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Messages:
    2,298
    Likes Received:
    11,715
    How many writers here have gone and asked the permission of DC, George Martin, Joanne Rowling, or others for permission to play with their stories and characters?

    By that logic almost all fanfiction is in bad taste. Asking for special protections for derivitive fiction writers, more than the original fiction writers whose settings and characters we use as if we have any right to, is the height of hypocrisy. Let's just move on.
     
  6. hkim

    hkim Getting sticky.

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    471

    It's equally legal but twice as dickish due to the broadly identical social circles of the authors. Most people don't ask J K Rowling (or whomever) for permission to use their stuff in fanfic because they don't have any way to actually get said permission, as well as a vast host of copyright issues that would arise if the said "yes". Not only does none of that apply to Whiteeyes, who posts here and is still accessible, she's still keen on seeing SI fic written.

    Poor form, Mr. Zoat.
     
  7. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    798
    Like how Weird Al always asks for permission to write his parodies even though he legally doesn't have to.

    It's the difference between stealing from a Walmart and stealing from a mom & pop shop. Also, how many of us are on this forum just because Zoat moved here? How many moved from SB to SV during that event? This is more like JK Rowling playing with a fanfic to write a new book without permission, which given the quality of Cursed Child is probably what happened.
     
  8. Hotcoco

    Hotcoco Getting out there.

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    155
    Mind providing a link I can't seem to find the story my self
     
    Chojin Patriarch likes this.
  9. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    12,345
    Likes Received:
    145,799
  10. Hotcoco

    Hotcoco Getting out there.

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    155
    Otto von Saurion likes this.
  11. Radix

    Radix Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    498
    Except neither of these are theft. Zoat isn't profiting off of it, and no profit is being lost by the use of these characters.

    So instead of asking and being refused, they go ahead and do it anyways? Refusing to ask because you know they will say no is even more dickish.

    I don't see any obligation to ask other people to use their characters. Not even for "good manners". If someone else uses your idea or character, take it as a compliment. Especially if that character is themself derivative of another character in a setting that is wholesale stolen from someone who actually legally owns it (DC). You don't get to complain about theft of IP when your story steals about 90% of it's characters from somewhere else.
     
  12. hkim

    hkim Getting sticky.

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    471
    I think we may be at axiom lock here, would you agree?
     
  13. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    6,216
    I might have had a problem with Mr. Zoat not asking for permission if he was making any money using With This Ring(which would be somewhat problematic in the first place?). He doesn't, so meh.
     
  14. monochromaticPrism

    monochromaticPrism Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    14
    Given what appears to be the inherent philosophical differences between a orange and teal lantern, my bet as to the asteroid’s fate is that it will shortly become thousands of tasty asteroid snow cones, likely to be sold bulk for 20 bucks to an impoverished public school that is out on lunch break somewhere hot, or some equivalent.
     
    Otto von Saurion, Vorian and Cuchulin like this.
  15. hkim

    hkim Getting sticky.

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    471
    Here is a hint for anyone having trouble understanding why people are irritated with Zoat: it has nothing to do with law or money.
     
  16. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    6,216
    I think it is hypocritical for people to be irritated at this, when nobody raised a complaint(that I can remember) for doing the same for Inviolate.
     
  17. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Experienced.

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,263
    Likes Received:
    8,916
    Crisis of Infinite Earths, Each universe has a Monitor and the anti matter universe has the Antimonitor. The Monitors doing NOTHING to prevent travel to other universes is what caused the crisis. Basically Antimonitor became aware that positive matter universes exist and decided to destroy them. Something that would not have happened if someone had not used a machine to look into the anti matter universe just when the Antimonitor was paying attention.

    So unless the local Monitor does not know about the crisis it makes sense for him to prevent travel between universes.
     
    Cuchulin likes this.
  18. RamiroGalletti

    RamiroGalletti Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    10
    on one hand :fair point.
    on the other: you are using PUPULAR characters from a MASIVE company, and you TOLD US the continuity you are using. AND you did not put a link to the original story involving Teal lantern.
    a sinple edit to the 1° appereance with "a link to the original story" would have benn the polite thing to do.
    (sorry for the bad english, or any percibed rudeness)
     
  19. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    6,216
    The title of the first chapter is a link to the original story.
     
  20. Radix

    Radix Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    498
    Probably. I dont really see why it is good manners to ask permission. It isnt needed and doesnt do anything.
     
    Wetbananas and BlueMangoAdea like this.
  21. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    May 10, 2017
    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    4,288
    Yup, this is proceeding just as I felt it would.
     
  22. ironbabyjones

    ironbabyjones Making the rounds.

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    111
    I greatly enjoy WTR, but I set it down about a year ago (planning to catch up eventually some day). Hearing that Vanillabun was showing up made me pop back in. Go go Vanilla! Melt OL’s grinchy heart with the power of friendship and tabletop gaming!
     
    TopHatWearer, Belenus and Cuchulin like this.
  23. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    10,009
    Likes Received:
    440,778
    No, in I Want To See You Smile, Vanilla mentions selling copper.
    I wish I could predict things as well as you.
     
  24. Deadring

    Deadring Screee!

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    96
    Forum etiquette is a topic many forum posters feel strongly about.

    Not to sound condescending, but it should have been obvious.

    Deadring rolled 1 die of 100 faces, total: 68
    Rolled on: May-02-2021, 08:23pm
    68
     
  25. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    798
    Let's say somebody else was writing a fanfic that got massively popular, and they had an interdimensional traveler show up that turned out to be Zoat, and then he raped that parallel's version of Zatanna who was still 14 years old. Would that be a problem? I'd think so, can't speak for Zoat if he'd have a problem with it but some fans would. Now Zoat has so far handled the character respectfully, hell she's coming off nicer and smarter than she did in the original work, and that's probably why the author said they'd have said yes if asked. That's why it's good manners to ask for permission, because then the author of an SI can say they trust the person asking the permission to do their work justice. No one is saying Zoat had to ask permission, just that it would have been better to have done so.
     
    Jaron, Cuchulin, Vorian and 1 other person like this.
  26. Radiant Knight

    Radiant Knight Phoenix Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    I mean I think everyone can agree character assassination is bad. I don't think that it's relevant in the context we're dealing with, though.
     
  27. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    798
    Is it though? Why? If it's not rude to write about someone else's SI without asking for permission, then why is it rude to do so poorly? That's the rub, Zoat hasn't actually written anything wrong, and in general can be trusted to treat characters he writes with respect (except Nabu and Superman). I'm sure most of the writers of various fanfics would jump for joy to be included in this story, which actually makes the fact that he didn't ask worse.
     
    Jaron, Tank man, MechaNova and 2 others like this.
  28. Megaolix

    Megaolix Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    22,951
    Likes Received:
    60,745
    Guys, I have to admit the situation is kinda fairly new and staff will likely need time to discuss it. In the meantime, let's avoid the pitchforks, please.
     
  29. lancelot

    lancelot Grand High Poobah

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,592
    Likes Received:
    4,557
    It's a story five years dead, who gives a fuck? Do your thing, don't shit on the character too hard as a common courtesy, and 'all will be well'.
     
  30. Radix

    Radix Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    498
    Does Blaul's statuary rape in negative 10 count?

    Yeah I agree that character assasination is bad, but this isnt necessarily that.

    Plus this is a consequence of you putting out a story. It being a self-insert doesnt afford it special rights. SIs are characters just like any other, the only difference is they are based on you specifically as opposed to being based om other characters or people you know or even one you invented. I dont see how one is worse than another.
     
Loading...