With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Mr Zoat · Feb 5, 2023

Darko said:
Good point.

Not really. While it would be perfectly understandable if they were angry and hate-filled, Kalmin killed their world with fear. If there were any survivors, there wouldn't be much else in their minds.

RoninSword · Feb 5, 2023

Ganurath said:
Seems like Jade realized that if the slain world had even one survivor, they'd have a red ring candidate who'd be happy to collect Sinestro's head.

While that's where my thoughts went first, I imagine they would want revenge on Kalmin for making the yellow ring rather the Sinestro for ordering it.

Chaoswind · Feb 5, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Not really. While it would be perfectly understandable if they were angry and hate-filled, Kalmin killed their world with fear. If there were any survivors, there wouldn't be much else in their minds.

Fear inducing super weapon to make the populace produce enough raw fear to forge a yellow ring and a yellow lantern without having a yellow light fountain that can tap into the universal yellow light?

I guess Kalmin had to make the entire planet to feel fear in order to brute force a strong enough connection to the plane of fear to make the lantern and the ring.

I guess Paul is too orange to do the same even if he mechanically knows how to do it and the controllers have also become too orange to connect to it, the other maltusians could easily learn to do it, but would likely end up permanently connected to the yellow light or in a coma as granny did.

Vaermina · Feb 5, 2023

Has LePaul forgotten that you can't make Red Rings the same way you do others?

Stsword · Feb 5, 2023

Vaermina said:
Has LePaul forgotten that you can't make Red Rings the same way you do others?

No, but you have forgotten there is no such rule.

In Lost Army, the Lightsmiths' beams changed the colors of several lanterns, including turning several green lanterns into red lanterns, the Lightsmiths' tech also converted Guy's red ring into a green ring.

Similarly during the Blackest Night event Superboy Prime's rage turned the black ring he was wearing momentarily into a red power ring, along with all the other colors, before the black lantern ring was destroyed by the experience.

So power ring + red light of rage = red power ring. DC treats the rings as interchangeable.

Atrocitus created the red rings with magic because he's a shaman, not because its impossible to create a red power ring with technology.

Radix · Feb 5, 2023

Yeah Atrocitus lacks the technological capability to do it himself.

Plus I imagine some exotic abilities like the burning blood vomit or replacing their hearts is tied to the magic part of it.

Prince Charon · Feb 6, 2023

Stsword said:
So that's pretty much like vouching for Bruce Banner's anger management skills.

Well, some versions of Bruce have excellent anger management skills (especially compared to Orion), so it depends on the setting.

Mr Zoat · Feb 6, 2023

20th January 2013
12:04 GMT

Jade's helmet turns around as we float in space near to the ruined world that still glows yellow to my empathic vision.

"So this is the anti-matter universe."

"From their point of view, it's the matter universe. Though Kalmin calls it anti-matter, because he likes the idea of being from somewhere that can innately destroy anything."

"Is it speciesist if I say he's acting like a comic book supervillain?"

"I think you've got s-word privileges. Besides, he'd be proud of it."

"Is this whole universe like that?"

"I don't know. I don't think so, but I haven't really done any exploring."

Earth. Is there an anti-matter Earth out there? I mentally assigned the parallel where Blue Me ended up to that position, but that isn't correct. That's Negative 14. Kalmin didn't say anything about this universe having an Earth, but I suppose that he wouldn't consider it significant.

"No, it wouldn't work. If everyone was evil to everyone else all the time, no one could build a civilization."

"I think the theory I saw was that things would either be completely anarchic, or a handful of individuals with the power to compel others to obey them would rule everyone else, because that would be the only way complex society could emerge. Want to go down?"

"Is there anything dangerous down there?"

"I doubt that Kalmin would have left any of his top tier weapons somewhere where someone might pick them up without paying for them. Scans don't show anything overtly dangerous."

"And the fear?"

"Did I ever show you the report of my encounter with the Terror Thing?"

"The fear elemental from Cornwall? Implanted ideas escalating to sensory hallucinations. But you won't be affected."

"That was a bit different. The Terror Thing was held together with magic. This is pure yellow light. At worst, you'll see your own fears."

"And you won't be affected."

"I don't know. I… Honestly, I'm not afraid of… Anything, these days. I used to be afraid of heights and death, and then I started flying everywhere and died twice. I suppose that the idea of total obliteration still bothers me, but I've looked into it and that's really hard to do."

"Should I take it as a compliment that you're not afraid of anything happening to me?"

"Why, do you think I'd let you stay dead? You still haven't told me which mythos you picked, and you grew up in a majority Christian country. I'm sure that Mammon would-."

"The Scouring Path."

Ah..?

I blink as the ring brings me up to speed on… A minor martial-focused Source-worshipping religion. One with… A strong emphasis on earning salvation through morally praiseworthy combat. And redemption through morally praiseworthy combat. They usually field a large number of penitents under arms in their military deployments, and they're fairly popular amongst soldiers in about seventy different systems around their world of origin.

"That's… A pretty good choice. I didn't.. know-."

"A couple of Darkstars I was stationed with are into it. Like you said, it's a good idea to pick something. And I get to earn redemption for something I was doing anyway."

Because one of the Scouring Path's beliefs is that someone who performs moral deeds will naturally come to identify with them, regardless of how pure their original motives were. Faults and weaknesses are scoured away as you walk towards the Source.

"Right, but it's Source-worshipping."

"Is that a problem?"

"Well… All Source religions… Except some of the really out there ones… Ah… Direct their adherents towards spiritual transcendence."

"So do most Earth religions."

Yeah. Most. Cyclic reincarnation leading to transcendence or bringing a soul that did its best closer to God to give it a better idea of what it's supposed to be. That's… What most modern religions do.

Ah, there we go.

"Jade, you picked a religion-. I won't necessarily be able to resurrect you."

"You couldn't guarantee that anyway. This lets me avoid the worst outcome when I die. And I checked; The Scouring Path lets souls keep fighting after they die if they want. You'll have time to work something out."

"I'm not in a position to fight the S-."

"There isn't a perfect choice. But this works for me."

…

It doesn't work for me.

…

That's the… Problem with letting people make their own choices.

"So… Are we… Going down?"

"I thought you'd be more happy about this."

I bring my left fist to my chest plate, power ring glowing.

"For me, the worst result isn't your soul going to hell. I can deal with hell. It's you transcending to the point where I can't-. Where you're permanently… Not there any more."

"And your plan is to keep going forever?"

"Yes."

"… Oh."

"Lord Hades is relatively generous, but being a shade is still worse than being alive. And even Erebos will die at some point. So it's not worth staying for any length of time, because the longer you're there the harder it is to leave. It's not worth getting trapped like that."

"And you're..? Worried about being alone?"

"No. I'll be able to make new friends. Meet… New people. Somewhere in the multiverse there's a problem I can fix, so I'll never be bored. Somewhere in the multiverse there's something new to see and do. I'm worried about not being with you anymore. Not… Seeing it with you"

"We can.. go sightseeing once the Reach stop existing."

"True. And… And yeah, I want to do that. And… This wasn't the sort of place I had in mind, but it will be interesting."

"Duck-foot-interesting?"

"Hu-eh. Hopefully not. Going down."

Darko · Feb 6, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"Is it speciesist if I say he's acting like a comic book supervillain

I think it's only speciesist if you think his entire species acts like that.

Mr Zoat said:
I blink as the ring brings me up do speed on… A minor martial-focused Source-worshipping religion. One with… A strong emphasis on earning salvation through morally praiseworthy combat. And redemption through morally praiseworthy combat. They usually field a large number of penitents under arms in their military deployments, and they're fairly popular amongst soldiers in about seventy different systems around their world of origin

Nice choice.

Mr Zoat said:
Because one of the Scouring Path's beliefs is that someone who performs moral deeds will naturally come to identify with them, regardless of how pure their original motives were. Faults and weaknesses are scoured away as you walk towards the Source

Once again, nice choice.

Mr Zoat said:
It doesn't work for me.

…

That's the… Problem with letting people make their own choices

Hmm, I wonder if the fear on the planet is influencing him.

Silverias · Feb 6, 2023

Big "no fear, one fear " meme energy here.

Chojin Patriarch · Feb 6, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
20th January 2013
12:04 GMT

Jade's helmet turns around as we float in space near to the ruined world that still glows yellow to my empathic vision.

"So this is the anti-matter universe."

Well, it's a matter of perspective, really. To the locals, their universe is normal matter, and it's your backwards-polarity dimension that's the anti-matter universe. No wonder they want it gone.

"From their point of view, it's the matter universe. Though Kalmin calls it anti-matter, because he likes the idea of being from somewhere that can innately destroy anything."

"Is it speciesist if I say he's acting like a comic book supervillain?"

No, Kalmin is a comic-book supervillain. He'd probably consider being called that humorous. Once he looked up what it meant.

"I think you've got s-word privileges. Besides, he'd be proud of it."

"Is this whole universe like that?"

...I guess the Anti-Monitor left quite the impression on the place.

"I don't know. I don't think so, but I haven't really done any exploring."

Earth. Is there an anti-matter Earth out there? I mentally assigned the parallel Blue Me ended up to that position, but that isn't correct. That's Negative 14. Kalmin didn't say anything about this universe having an Earth, but I suppose that he wouldn't consider it significant.

Especially since this universe doesn't seem to have Maltusians, so no Guardians, no Lantern Corps, no terrestrial Lanterns to get Earth's reputation out there.

"No, it wouldn't work. If everyone was evil to everyone else all the time, no one could build a civilization."

"I think the theory I saw was that things would either be completely anarchic, or a handful of individuals with the power to compel others to obey them would rule everyone else, because that would be the only way complex society could emerge. Want to go down?"

And ideally set it up so that your successor is inclined to maintain the status quo after you're gone... Because few empires that don't, don't outlast their conqueror.

"Is there anything dangerous down there?"

"I doubt that Kalmin would have left any of his top tier weapons somewhere where someone might pick them up without paying for them. Scans don't show anything overtly dangerous."

Except, you know, the whole planet glowing with Fear...

"And the fear?"

"Did I ever show you the report of my encounter with the Terror Thing?"

This is something of a whole different scale here, OL.

"The fear elemental from Cornwall? Implanted ideas escalating to sensory hallucinations. But you won't be affected."

"That was a bit different. The Terror Thing was held together with magic. This is pure yellow light. At worst, you'll see your own fears."

Plus Enlightenment doesn't mean he doesn't feel fear, merely that it's filtered through a lens of Want.

"And you won't be affected."

"I don't know. I… Honestly, I'm not afraid of… Anything, these days. I used to be afraid of heights and death, and then I started flying everywhere and died twice. I suppose that the idea of total obliteration still bothers me, but I've looked into it and that's really hard to do."

But there are other ways to fear than those, OL. What about losing something you value?

"Should I take it as a complement that you're not afraid of anything happening to me?"

"Why, do you think I'd let you stay dead? You still haven't told me which mythos you picked, and you grew up in a majority Christian country. I'm sure that Mammon would-."

The joy of having hooks into Hell. Though I'm sure a resurrection like that would mean a devil of a time with the paperwork.

"The Scouring Path."

Ah..?

...That sounds like either a very nasty faith, or a very self-abusive one...

I blink as the ring brings me up do speed on… A minor martial-focused Source-worshipping religion. One with… A strong emphasis on earning salvation through morally praiseworthy combat. And redemption through morally praiseworthy combat. They usually field a large number of penitents under arms in their military deployments, and they're fairly popular amongst soldiers in about seventy different systems around their world of origin.

...Huh. I suppose that's useful to her, given her line of work.

"That's… A pretty good choice. I didn't.. know-."

"A couple of Darkstars I was stationed with are into it. Like you said, it's a good idea to pick something. And I get to earn redemption for something I was doing anyway."

Let's just hope the Silver City got the 'transfer of afterlife provider' paperwork.

Because one of the Scouring Path's beliefs is that someone who performs moral deeds will naturally come to identify with them, regardless of how pure their original motives were. Faults and weaknesses are scoured away as you walk towards the Source.

"Right, but it's Source-worshipping."

...Ah, right. The question of their actual afterlife.

"Is that a problem?"

"Well… All Source religions… Except some of the really out there ones… Ah… Direct their adherents towards spiritual transcendence."

In other words, becoming one with the Source?

"So do most Earth religions."

Yeah. Most. Cyclic reincarnation leading to transcendence or bringing a soul that did its best closer to God to give it a better idea of what it's supposed to be. That's… What most modern religions do.

Just a little tricky, because the end goal removes you from the whole cycle entirely.

Ah, there we go.

"Jade, you picked a religion-. I won't necessarily be able to resurrect you."

Heh. Feeling a little scared now, huh?

"You couldn't guarantee that anyway. This lets me avoid the worst outcome when I die. And I checked; The Scouring Path lets souls keep fighting after they die if they want. You'll have time to work something out."

"I'm not in a position to fight the S-."

Would it be so bad to just let her go... Oh, wait, Orange Lantern.

"There isn't a perfect choice. But this works for me."

…

And orange Lanterns do tend to have a problem with letting their things go...

It doesn't work for me.

…

Such is Life, Shaman of Avarice. Deal.

That's the… Problem with letting people make their own choices.

"So… Are we… Going down?"

It's this, or try to control everything, OL. And that way leads to the Dark Side.

"I thought you'd be more happy about this."

I bring my left fist to my chest plate, power ring glowing.

Hand on heart, eh?

"For me, the worst result isn't your soul going to hell. I can deal with hell. It's you transcending to the point where I can't-. Where you're permanently… Not there any more."

"And your plan is to keep going forever?"

Well, when you've installed a revolving door on your afterlife...

"Yes."

"… Oh."

Sounds kinda crazy when he just up and says it like that...

"Lord Hades is relatively generous, but being a shade is still worse than being alive. And even Erebos will die at some point. So it's not worth staying for any length of time, because the longer you're there the harder it is to leave. It's not worth getting trapped like that."

"And you're..? Worried about being alone?"

Pfft. Hardly. He's seen his future. Outside of the 'Gate' period when he gets confined by the local gods for who knows how long... He gets to keep meeting new and fascinating people.

"No. I'll be able to make new friends. Meet… New people. Somewhere in the multiverse there's a problem I can fix, so I'll never be bored. Somewhere in the multiverse there's something new to see and do. I'm worried about not being with you anymore. Not… Seeing it with you"

"We can.. go sightseeing once the Reach stop existing."

So, in twenty years or so. Sounds like a fun retirement.

"True. And… And yeah, I want to do that. And… This wasn't the sort of place I had in mind, but it will be interesting."

"Duck-foot-interesting?"

"Hu-eh. Hopefully not. Going down."

Don't ask, it's gross food stuff, moving on...

Well, at least OL's given this stuff some thought. But no mater what he does, people he knows and loves will die, eventually. Better to get used to the idea now then suffer later, or worse, go full Larfleeze on them... Meanwhile, what do you folks think they'll see down there? Cowering locals? A giant wasteland of people who died of terror? People who have gone so far past scared, they worked their way back to brave via Enlightenment?

Darko · Feb 6, 2023

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well, at least OL's given this stuff some thought. But no mater what he does, people he knows and loves will die, eventually. Better to get used to the idea now then suffer later, or worse, go full Larfleeze on them... Meanwhile, what do you folks think they'll see down there? Cowering locals? A giant wasteland of people who died of terror? People who have gone so far past scared, they worked their way back to brave via Enlightenment?

There may be some survivors down there, but it's also possible that there's just fear energy left over.

Duke Long · Feb 6, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
I blink as the ring brings me up do speed on…

'to'

Interesting chapter. I'm wondering if it is just what it seems or if it's foreshadowing Jade's permanent death.

RichardWhereat · Feb 6, 2023

So, is duck foot as good as chicken foot?

lancelot · Feb 6, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"Lord Hades is relatively generous, but being a shade is still worse than being alive. And even Erebos will die at some point. So it's not worth staying for any length of time, because the longer you're there the harder it is to leave. It's not worth getting trapped like that."

"And you're..? Worried about being alone?"

"No. I'll be able to make new friends. Meet… New people. Somewhere in the multiverse there's a problem I can fix, so I'll never be bored. Somewhere in the multiverse there's something new to see and do. I'm worried about not being with you anymore. Not… Seeing it with you"

So we finally have a situation where Paul will stop fucking around with the sandbagging as tries to work out a perfect counter and fails as often as not. Instead any threat to Jade's life will be met with a massive snake like hammer of overwhelming power. Too bad that seem to be just about the only reason he'll stop holding back.

Sordid Snake · Feb 6, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
'Rule by military veterans' is a form of oligarchy.

Or a type of restricted franchise.

"You're not a democracy, you're an oligarchy!"
"What? Because we don't let trees vote?"
"Yes!"
"But how could trees vote? They arn't people!"
"What! Are you denying their beinghood too!"

Mr Zoat · Feb 6, 2023

Me said:
I mentally assigned the parallel where Blue Me ended up to that position, but that isn't correct.

Duke Long said:
'to'

Thank you, corrected.

Dur'id the Druid · Feb 6, 2023

This chapter is really reminding me of that scene from HP:MoR where Dumbledore asks why Harry wants to defeat death.

Coda · Feb 6, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Should I take it as a complement

compliment

Duke Long · Feb 6, 2023

Dur'id the Druid said:
This chapter is really reminding me of that scene from HP:MoR where Dumbledore asks why Harry wants to defeat death.

It's reminiscent, but there's a pretty huge difference in that Dumbledore was factually incorrect, whereas Jade simply has a different opinion.

Mr Zoat · Feb 6, 2023

Coda said:
compliment

Thank you, corrected.

xSieg · Feb 6, 2023

So, this seems like a good time to ask now that we're back to seeing ring-forging using others as emotional batteries

Kalmin forged Alan's ring using the Hope from all the women who were being saved from the eye-gouging-god world, right? Does that mean that world irradiates hope like this one seems to be doing, or is this a special case somehow?

Windona · Feb 6, 2023

Oo, Lantern Quest. Though I wonder if Negative 14 would have the Life Equation instead.

For rage, we saw it forged in the Renegade timeline. Maybe the rage of a planet screwed over, or one with a population that went for anger instead of being beaten into submission.

Darko · Feb 7, 2023

xSieg said:
So, this seems like a good time to ask now that we're back to seeing ring-forging using others as emotional batteries

Kalmin forged Alan's ring using the Hope from all the women who were being saved from the eye-gouging-god world, right? Does that mean that world irradiates hope like this one seems to be doing, or is this a special case somehow?

I think thus is a special case.

If I remember correctly, Paul brought some if the women to Maltus and Kalmin was able to extract the hope he needed there, so their planet may not radiate hope.

Windona said:
Oo, Lantern Quest. Though I wonder if Negative 14 would have the Life Equation instead.

For rage, we saw it forged in the Renegade timeline. Maybe the rage of a planet screwed over, or one with a population that went for anger instead of being beaten into submission.

I think the Weaponer that forged the red ring used her own rage.

Though I may be misremembering and maybe she just used her own understanding of hate to forge it, but got the power from somewhere else.

Mr Zoat · Feb 7, 2023

6 568 938.M41

"Hah!"

Tsua'm does the double nasal cleft twitch that's the tau equivalent of an eye roll, as the Earth Caste engineer stands stock still staring at me for three seconds, then looks at her for confirmation that I'm supposed to be there but doesn't wait for it before going back to what he was doing before he spotted me.

Exactly like every tau we've encountered since entering the Eugenics Board headquarters on T'au.

I mean, I get it. Non-tau don't really have any reason for coming here. Aliens who might have something interesting to share concerning genetics would generally work with Earth Caste researchers on their own planets, or in specialist facilities. This is mostly an administrative and policy-making centre, rather than somewhere where actual research is conducted.

So I'm getting stares because I'm out of place, fair enough. But everyone has exactly the same response.

"Tau don't go in for mass cloning, right?"

"No. It was found to be detrimental to overall effectiveness."

I wait a moment to see if she-.

"It is the natural tau response to something strange within safe territory. They scent that I don't smell concerned, and decide that it is safe to ignore you. I am sure that humans do something similar."

"Oh, humans wouldn't even look at the escort. In my day you could put on a lab coat and walk through a hospital without anyone stopping you. And I heard a story about it being possible to just turn up in the staff areas of our oldest university if you had the right jacket on and pretend to belong there for free meals in the staff canteen." Hm. "I imagine that's changed now."

"Humans have not changed as much as you might think."

"No, I mean that university is now underneath the Imperial Palace. Or.. where it used to be is. A little way south east of the throne room. Or maybe inside it. I didn't bother trying to find out exactly how big it is while I was there."

Tsua'm looks slightly puzzled, and then uses her personal computer to pull up a file.

"You told me that you were born on 'a small island off the coast of Europe'."

I create a globe construct and have Eastbourne ping.

"Yes."

"Our records say that the Imperial Palace is not in Europe. Data mined from captured Imperial ships says that it is in 'Asia'."

"No, easy mistake to make. That's the location of the Astronomican. Where the Himalayan mountains use to be… Or are. For a ship that's probably far more important, because their on-board navigators can actually see it from just about anywhere."

"How do they stop other species making use of it?"

"They don't. They can't. That whole system is one of the reasons that tyranids are such a big problem for Imperial worlds. Normally they home in on the signal generated in the warp by populated worlds, but major Imperial worlds actively signal them."

"That doesn't-."

A plainly-dressed tau of the Earth Caste walks through a nearby door and heads towards us as Tsua'm cuts herself off to greet her.

"Fio'El Maka'm. Thank you for agreeing to meet with us."

"It is no trouble, but, I'm sorry, was I interrupting?"

I shake my head. "Oh, we were just talking about warp navigation."

"Ah, yes." Maka'm nods. "I cannot help but wonder at the progress we might make if we could gain access to human navigator genealogical records!"

"Oh, I wouldn't… If I remember correctly, navigators are horribly inbred and usually have a load of secondary mutations as a result."

"Then we will work to repair them. Though it may take time, I believe in the eventual triumph of the Greater Good."

"Huh." I smile. "I'm glad to hear it. Ever since that 'do not invite' list got created, I've heard a lot of tau embracing realism. I like your optimism."

"I would not say that there is such a sharp divide. Orks are incapable of joining the Greater Good as they are now; only a fool would argue with that. But the work the Eugenics Board undertakes could eventually be applied to other species just as easily-." She hunches her shoulders slightly. "Nearly as easily to other species. That is why I want to speak with you. Humans tend to be so superstitious about genealogy; your perspective is invaluable."

"I'm happy to help, but… Ah, there's something about 'superstition' that a lot of tau tend to dismiss out of hand when they… Really shouldn't."

"Obviously, the presence of the psyker gene complicates things, but once that is isolated-."

"No, no." Good job I'm here. As an 'El, Maka'm is in theory training under a 'o with a view to taking over an important project or facility. This sounds like a misapprehension that needs to be dealt with as soon as possible. "Psyker… it isn't a trait that a human either has or doesn't have. The Imperium rates everyone on a scale from Rho to Alpha, but only routinely treats power levels of Iota or above as worth treating specially. They're… At least in theory, the ones who get handed over to the black ships. But large swaths of the population have power levels between Omicron and Kappa."

"So it is a combination of many genetic factors."

"It might not even be genetic." I think for a moment. "Alright, let's… A lot of tau think that human religiosity towards machines is stupid. And I did too, but… The part of the human population that has low level psychic abilities may not be able to manifest psychic phenomena individually, but if enough of them enact the same rituals and believe the same things over an area, their… Collective power is enough to alter reality and make it… 'True'. Whether it was originally true or not."

"Is that..?" A flex of scent receptors as she tries to get a read on me. That probably won't work unless she's familiar with human scents, but it's another instinctive response. "So?"

"Try looking up Imperial Guard Psyker Battle Squads if you want to see what networked Iota-level psykers can do when connected to each other. Or compare the processing power of a drone network to that of individual drones. Then consider the backlash when a billion Kappa level psykers think you need to hop in a circle three times before pulling a lever and you decide not to do it."

"But… But what does that have to do with biology?"

"Humans have decided that the human form is holy. This is a very common belief held across the Imperium. And it's partly reinforced by the link between overt warp phenomena and mutation. It isn't a problem with tau because your psychic presence is so weak, but with humans it isn't that simple."

"You mean that there would be… A collective response by… Warp-based reality deviations."

"I think it's something that you should consider very possible. Perhaps nothing overt, just a… Higher than probable number of minor accidents, problems…"

"And that affects-. Does that affect all human technology?"

"Oh, yes. But that's not the sole reason why human technology works as it does. You've got smart programs and AI fragments from before the Age of Isolation that no one knows about infecting things, organic brains being used for data processing which may or may not have their own personalities and derangements, and people generally not knowing what they're doing and failing to copy something a system needed in order to work properly and so turning a bypass procedure into part of the main procedure… And that's before you take into account actual daemons, who actually have an easier time getting in if the rituals aren't performed. Honestly, where humans are concerned, I'd recommend that you limit your ambitions a lot."

"I… Hear what you say, though.. I will need to confirm your claims."

I nod. "Of course."

"Why was it that you wanted to speak to me?"

"It occurred to me that you probably have data on just about every commonly-occurring gene in the tau species: what they look like and what they do."

"Yes, that is… The purpose of the Eugenics Board. Some… Recent mutations are not fully researched, but otherwise our records are quite complete."

"Excellent." I smile. "Mind if I take a look?"

Darko · Feb 7, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"Oh, humans wouldn't even look at the escort. In my day you could put on a lab coat and walk through a hospital without anyone stopping you. And I heard a story about it being possible to just turn up in the staff areas of our oldest university if you had the right jacket on and pretend to belong there for free meals in the staff canteen

Fake it till you make it.

Mr Zoat said:
Humans have not changed as much as you might think."

Sadly true.

Pinklestia · Feb 7, 2023

Is Oh Eh gonna turn himself into a
tau?

Handlewithcare · Feb 7, 2023

The issue with Human technology:

"So is it some form of animalistic belief, remains of AI, spiritual AIs formed from belief, actual AI that went insane, ritual just enacting protocols by accident (like incense smoke tripping smoke detectors), collective belief like a Waagh field or wired in organic brains acting up?"

"Yes. In every possible combination"

Darko · Feb 7, 2023

Pinklestia said:
Is Oh Eh gonna turn himself into a
tau?

Maybe he's looking into the potential of having some hybrid children now that he's technically dating.

Chojin Patriarch · Feb 7, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
6 568 938.M41

"Hah!"

Tsua'm's does the double nasal cleft twitch that's the tau equivalent of an eye roll, as the earth caste engineer stands stock still staring at me for three seconds, then looks at her for confirmation that I'm supposed to be there but doesn't wait for it before going back to what he was doing before he spotted me.

After all, if the young lady is escorting the Gue'vesa, then clearly, he's here for a reason. Wouldn't be here if he wasn't. Stands to reason, so Q.E.D. Not his problem. Let someone higher-ranked handle it.

Exactly like every tau we've encountered since entering the Eugenics Board headquarters on T'au.

I mean, I get it. Non-tau don't really have any reason for coming here. Aliens who might have something interesting to share concerning genetics would generally work with earth caste researchers on their own planets, or in specialist facilities. This is mostly an administrative and policy-making centre, rather than somewhere where actual research is conducted.

Because someone's got to do the paperwork and collate the data.

So I'm getting stares because I'm out of place, fair enough. But everyone has exactly the same response.

"Tau don't go in for mass cloning, right?"

What's that got to do with the price of tanna in Ultramar?

"No. It was found to be detrimental to overall effectiveness."

I wait a moment to see if she-.

"It is the natural tau response to something strange within safe territory. They scent that I don't smell concerned, and decide that it is safe to ignore you. I am sure that humans do something similar."

Well, there's less pheromones involved and more social confidence...

"Oh, humans wouldn't even look at the escort. In my day you could put on a lab coat and walk through a hospital without anyone stopping you. And I heard a story about it being possible to just turn up in the staff areas of our oldest university if you had the right jacket on and pretend to belong there for free meals in the staff canteen." Hm. "I imagine that's changed now."

"Humans have not changed as much as you might think."

It's amazing what places the right coat and a clipboard can get you into. People aren't inclined to concern themselves with things that don't seem out-of-place.

"No, I mean that university is now underneath the Imperial Palace. Or.. where it used to be is. A little way south east of the throne room. Or maybe inside it. I didn't bother trying to find out exactly how big it is while I was there."

Tsua'm looks slightly puzzled, and then uses her personal computer to pull up a file.

Which is an older bit of background, appropriate to a 2nd-edition era variant. More specifically, the Imperial Throne Room is located in Nottingham.

Sadly, retcons have messed with the specifics.

"You told me that you were born on 'a small island off the coast of Europe'."

I create a globe construct and have Eastbourne ping.

No doubt Terra looks a bit different with oceans, and a lack of, you know, cities everywhere.

"Yes."

"Our records say that the Imperial Palace is not in Europe. Data mined from captured Imperial ships says that it is in 'Asia'."

It's a big place. It could easily be both.

"No, easy mistake to make. That's the location of the Astronomican. Where the Himalayan mountains use to be… Or are. For a ship that's probably far more important, because their on-board navigators can actually see it from just about anywhere."

"How do they stop other species making use of it?"

How do you know they don't?

"They don't. They can't. That whole system is one of the reasons that tyranids are such a big problem for Imperial worlds. Normally they home in on the signal generated in the warp by populated worlds, but major Imperial worlds actively signal them."

"That doesn't-."

Imagine a dark countryside. Vast, cold and silent. You're trudging along, listening for sounds of habitation. All of a sudden, a hilltop lights up, sounds and beams of light flaring into the dark sky. That's basically what the Tyranid fleets see every time they pick up an Imperial transmission via Astropathy.

A plainly-dressed tau of the earth caste walks through a nearby door and heads towards us as Tsua'm cuts herself off to greet her.

"Fio'el Maka'm. Thank you for agreeing to meet with us."

Ah, here's that higher-caste person to handle things now.

"It is no trouble, but, I'm sorry, was I interrupting?"

I shake my head. "Oh, we were just talking about warp navigation."

And the security issues involved in a telepathic signal visible from the far side of the galactic core...

"Ah, yes." Maka'm nods. "I cannot help but wonder at the progress we might make if we could gain access to human navigator genealogical records!"

"Oh, I wouldn't… If I remember correctly, navigators are horribly inbred and usually a load of secondary mutations as a result."

Be glad they don't follow the Dune mechanics. With the large-scale mutations of the 'third-stage' navigator...

"Then we will work to repair them. Though it make take time, I believe in the eventual triumph of the Greater Good."

"Huh." I smile. "I'm glad to hear it. Ever since that 'do not invite' list got created, I've heard a lot of tau embracing realism. I like your optimism."

And see it. I suspect that kind of all-consuming Hope is a rarity to his empathic vision.

"I would not say that there is such a sharp divide. Orks are incapable of joining the Greater Good as they are now; only a fool would argue with that. But the work the Eugenics Board undertakes could eventually be applied to other species just as easily-." She hunches her shoulders slightly. "Nearly as easily to other species. That is why I want to speak with you. Humans tend to be so superstitious about genealogy; your perspective is invaluable."

Heck, I bet she'd be very interested to meet Gremlin.

"I'm happy to help, but… Ah, there something about 'superstition' that a lot of tau tend to dismiss out of hand when they… Really shouldn't."

"Obviously, the presence of the psyker gene complicates things, but once that is isolated-."

Ah, the old 'One gene is responsible for so much' saw. Just like in the Marvel Universe. Or DC's metagene...

"No, no." Good job I'm here. As an 'el, Maka'm is in theory training under a 'o with a view to taking over an important project or facility. This sounds like a misapprehension that needs to be dealt with as soon as possible. "Psyker… it isn't a trait that a human either has or doesn't have. The Imperium rates everyone on a scale from Rho to Alpha, but only routinely treats power levels of Iota or above as worth treating specially. They're… At least in theory, the ones who get handed over to the black ships. But large swaths of the population have power levels between Omicron and Kappa."

Though it rarely manifests. When it does, that's where you get things like Wyrds.

"So it is a combination of many genetic factors."

"It might not even be genetic." I think for a moment. "Alright, let's… A lot of tau think that human religiosity towards machines is stupid. And I did too, but… The part of the human population has low level psychic abilities may not be able to manifest psykic phenomena individually, but it enough of them enact the same rituals and believe the same things over an area, their… Collective power is enough to alter reality and make it… 'True'. Whether it was originally true or not."

...This is starting to sound kind of like the Waagh. I suppose it makes sense.

Or P'Aul is talking out of his arse.

"Is that..?" A flex of scent receptors as she tries to get a read on me. That probably won't work unless she's familiar with human scents, but it's another instinctive response. "So?"

"Try looking up Imperial Guard Psyker Battle Squads if you want to see what networked Iota-level psykers can do when connected to each other. Or compare the processing power of a drone network to that of individual drones. Then consider the backlash when a billion Kappa level psykers think you need to hop in a circle three times before pulling a lever and you decide not to do it."

For reference... They're usually fielded in squads of ten, often with a junior Commissar with bolt pistol at the ready for any...

Mishaps.

"But… But what does that have to do with biology?"

"Humans have decided that the human form is holy. This is a very common belief held across the Imperium. And it's partly reinforced by the link between overt warp phenomena and mutation. It isn't a problem with tau because your psychic presence is so weak, but with humans it isn't that simple."

Sort of a self-reinforcing meme.

"You mean that there would be… A collective response by… Warp-based reality deviations."

"I think it's something that you should consider very possible. Perhaps nothing overt, just a… Higher than probable number of minor accidents, problems…"

"And that affects-. Does that affect all human technology?"

Well, it's a matter of perspective, really. It's not always passive groupthink psychic sabotage...

"Oh, yes. But that's not the sole reason why human technology works as it does. You've got smart programs and AI fragments from before the Age of Isolation that no one knows about infecting things, organic brains being used for data processing which may or may not have their own personalities and derangements, and people generally not knowing what they're doing and failing to copy something a system needed in order to work properly and so turning a bypass procedure into part of the main procedure… And that's before you take into account actual daemons, who actually have an easier time getting in if the rituals aren't performed. Honestly, where humans are concerned, I'd recommend that limit your ambitions a lot."

Seriously, the 41st Millennium is a shit-hole, isn't it? Though some of these things happen even today. So often, a company takes over a factory, fire all the expensive old hands and insist on exact procedures being followed by the new workers... And discover their product is failing quality control more often than not.
Because those old hands learned the quirks of their machines, and how to adjust for them. And those adjustments never got written down in the formal instructions because it only mattered on one machine. So then they end up having to ask the old hands for help... At greater cost than if they'd kept them on.

"I… Hear what you say, though.. I will need to confirm your claims."

I nod. "Of course."

Trust, but verify. Especially if one person comes up with a crazy-sounding theory...

"Why was it that you wanted to speak to me?"

"It occurred to me that you probably have data on just about every commonly-occurring gene in the tau species; what they look like and what they do."

Oh, interesting. Following up on that 'create genes that are Me but Tau' idea while you're in town?

"Yes, that is… The purpose of the Eugenics Board. Some… Recent mutations are not fully researched, but otherwise our records are quite complete."

"Excellent." I smile. "Mind if I take a look?"

...And given how much more powerful a Power Ring's CPU capabilities are compared to the Tau's best, I wouldn't be surprised if he could do some serious data-crunching for them.

Still sticking with this side-plot, I see. Interesting theories. I wonder how much of that might be borne out by experimental evidence. I'm sure Tau researchers have tried to get human tech working without the expected 'machine spirit-pacifying rituals' angle, and found issues... Still, weren't they going to be meeting with the grand high poobah of the Tau race? Or is there a bit of a wait for their appointment...

A few corrections, Mr Zoat:

Tsua'm's does the double nasal cleft twitch that's the tau equivalent of an eye roll...

Tsua'm does the double nasal cleft twitch that's the tau equivalent of an eye roll...

...and usually a load of secondary mutations as a result."

Perhaps add 'have a' or 'suffer from a'?

Though it make take time, I believe in the eventual triumph of the Greater Good.

Though it may take time, I believe in the eventual triumph of the Greater Good.

Ah, there something about 'superstition' that a lot of tau…

Ah, there's something about 'superstition' that a lot of tau…

The part of the human population has low level psychic abilities...

The part of the human population that has low level psychic abilities...

I'd recommend that limit your ambitions a lot.

I'd recommend that you limit your ambitions a lot.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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