With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Neruz]

He has scans of at least 4 telepaths (Lita, two psi cops, Ironheart), and quite likely many more (he likely scanned everyone who was in the building he was interrogated at), as well as however many minbari telepaths he scanned. The ring is clearly capable of independent genetic analysis - it was able to isolate the minbari beard genes and compare them to human genetics. So "ring, locate human telepathy genome sequence" should be possible, based strictly on what he already did in this continuity. As well as "ring, compare human telepathic gene to minbari telepathic gene" and "ring, adapt isolated sequence to narn biology" for thr bonus and G'kar's eternal gratitude.

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Every single human brain is unique, there are commonalities, but exactly how every brain develops is different for every individual. (This is also true for the rest of the body, ask any surgeon and they'll tell you no two bodies are the same and nobody actually looks like the anatomy diagrams.)

Figuring out how to alter a fully formed brain into one with the structures for psychic powers is certainly possible, but it would take substantially more data than just a few brain scans.

e:

And they didn't know what caused Ironheart to ascend like that. (There's very good reason other species who have had telepaths longer then humans dont artificially increase telepathic power like the Psi-Corp was trying to do.)

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IIRC it's actually implied that Ironheart's ascension was a forced version of the intended fifth stage of the Vorlons psychic experiments. Human telepaths are third stage by default, and the Vorlon upgraded Lyta was fourth stage, but there are supposed to be five stages. And while we never get any explicit statements regarding the fifth stage, given the Vorlons goal of creating beings that could fight the Shadows it seems likely that the fifth stage is probably something similar to what happened to Ironheart.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Shouldn't the ring be capable of restructuring the brain? Like it did in the main timeline with the venombuster and agent orange victims. There's not much difference between that and adding the telepathic structures, as I understand it.

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I mean... Yes, a power ring can add or remove biological structures, no problem there. The problem is know what to add and how to add it without causing a stroke or some sort of other brain dysfunction. You can't really test something like that on laboratory mice.

 

[BoML]

Well, that throws my timeline completely out of whack.

Still, if he goes through with this, and the Psi Corps ever finds out, he's an enemy they have to address in the future. I do have to wonder just how deep Psi Corps has embedded themselves in Earth Alliance decision making process, and what the likes of "Bureau 13" feel about it.

Well, after he's done with Mayan, he'll be able to chill out in this new destination. He'll probably have to go through Babylon 5...

Hmmm...I'm wondering how long it took until Ironheart started loosing control of his powers. He's stable now...but how long will he stay that way?

 

[PeriodicPedant]

Where did I feel like doing? The lobby.

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going


*rubs hands together gleefully*
Not sure why I'm enjoying the B5 branch as much as I am -I was never big into B5-, but eeeee this is fun.

 

[Mr Zoat]

going

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Thank you, corrected.

Hmmm...I'm wondering how long it took until Ironheart started loosing control of his powers. He's stable now...but how long will he stay that way?

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Thing is... Ironheart is a good deal more moral a person than, say, Bester, but he still volunteered for the enhancement program and his outlook is still significantly formed by Psi Corps doctrine. If the SI saw him crackling with energy and preparing to explode, he'd try and stop that as fast as he could.

 

[Galler]

Out of the office, internal cameras there and there, office half-full, step around the corner to break line-of-sight and move to the bottom of the stairwell, then step out and walk towards the man sitting in the waiting area behind the… Copy of Universe Today.

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It has been a while since I did a reread but isn't "stepping out" used when OL travels via the Honden of Avarice? In which case this should likely be "transition" since he is noe enlightened.

 

[Neruz]

The two things that caused Ironheart to break was the realization that Psi Corps were acting outside of their remit to control the government, and that they wanted undetectable assassins who could kill without a trace.

So he concluded that undetectable assassins that could kill without a trace was a power far, far too dangerous to be entrusted to anyone, much less a government organization that had demonstrably gone rogue, and thus needed to make sure that the program that created him was destroyed so that it couldn't be reproduced as well as disappear himself.

Which is certainly ethical, but sadly also the kind of thing that doesn't really work; research can always be recreated, the hardest part is figuring out that something is possible in the first place. Once it is known that you can create super-psychics its only a matter of time before it is reproduced.

 

[Mr Zoat]

It has been a while since I did a reread but isn't "stepping out" used when OL travels via the Honden of Avarice? In which case this should likely be "transition" since he is noe enlightened.

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The main SI uses the term to refer to that, yes, but with this version he just means, you know, walking purposefully into a new area.

 

[Darko]

"Mm. I would of course need to apply for a visa for you. Please make sure that you have all pertinent documentation with you, particularly if any of it relates to criminal activity. They'll likely want you to declare it in advance

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Ooh, boy.

If the Vorlons were pissed at a crude form of immortality being developed, then this will really set them off.

I shrug, and say the line. "I guess I just like helping people

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Yeah, if Garibaldi thought you were a brainwashed criminal, then Ironheart will too.

The guy probably taught the techniques used in the process.

...and this is absolutely going to bring down Bester on everyone's heads

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I think Bester is going to be too busy learning the pecking order from Kosh.

In canon Ironheart ascended with zero vorlon interruption or retribution.

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I'm honestly wondering if Kosh knew what was happening and didn't interfere either because he wanted to see what would happen, or because Ironheart could potentially hurt him.

The Shadows response to that would be to have The Eye kill Matthew as the act of re-engineering the Narn to have telepaths would be taking a definitive stance against the Shadows.

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I don't think the Shadows would care about that.

They don't have a problem with species that have telepaths, and Narn-style teleoathy isn't inherently more powerful than any other version.

And why would the Shadows be upset that someone is taking a stance against them?

Their whole thing is that they take a long nap and then commit a bunch of pointless genocides until everyone starts fighting them.

Matthew going against is just business as usual.

 

[ziggrrauglurr]

I mean... Yes, a power ring can add or remove biological structures, no problem there. The problem is know what to add and how to add it without causing a stroke or some sort of other brain dysfunction. You can't really test something like that on laboratory mice.

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You risk ending with comic level rat villains with super-intelligence and telepathy....

Kinda like what Paul ended with when first testing the Flash formula in some rodents...

 

[Vaermina]

IIRC it's actually implied that Ironheart's ascension was a forced version of the intended fifth stage of the Vorlons psychic experiments. Human telepaths are third stage by default, and the Vorlon upgraded Lyta was fourth stage, but there are supposed to be five stages. And while we never get any explicit statements regarding the fifth stage, given the Vorlons goal of creating beings that could fight the Shadows it seems likely that the fifth stage is probably something similar to what happened to Ironheart.

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Not in the show it's not.

And if you go into the wider EU you get this, specifically from the Psi Corp module of the RPG. (Though of course Zoat's not using that.)

The Minbari have had telepaths for thousands of years; the
Centauri, for hundreds. While the Minbari might balk at
using technological means to augment their telepaths, the
Centauri have no such qualms. There are dozens of other
races who have both telepaths and the technology to improve
them. The Psi Corps has certainly shown, in developments
like the process that created Jason Ironheart, that telepathy
can be changed using technology. Why have none of the
other races discovered and perfected this process, if they
have had humanity's level of telepathy and technology for
centuries longer?

The simple answer is that the Vorlons do not permit their
handiwork to be improved on. A P12 to P15 is the ideal level
for fighting a Shadow vessel or uncovering a Shadow agent.
Anything more than that is unnecessary and disruptive and
risks working against the Vorlons' plans. Therefore, they
leave monitors with each race when they seed them with
telepaths. These monitors are to watch the telepaths created
by the Vorlons and to ensure that they do not become too
powerful.

Ironheart, for example, is a random factor in the grand
design of the Vorlons. He should not have been allowed
to come to pass. If the monitor of Earth had been able to
do her job properly, then the Psi Corps would have been
dissuaded from following that line of research, or at the very
least a Vorlon warship should have jumped out of hyperspace
above Mars, blasted the research station into atoms and then
vanished again as silently as it came.

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I don't think the Shadows would care about that.

They don't have a problem with species that have telepaths, and Narn-style teleoathy isn't inherently more powerful than any other version.

And why would the Shadows be upset that someone is taking a stance against them?

Their whole thing is that they take a long nap and then commit a bunch of pointless genocides until everyone starts fighting them.

Matthew going against is just business as usual.

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It's the act that matters not the result.

And the act is providing Vorlon weapons to the Younger Races as a "representative" of another First One race.

That's picking a side, and while that normally wouldn't be enough for the Shadows to go full murder, he declared himself a representative of a race of first one's. Which means he doesn't have the "younger race" protections that would stop the Shadows from using their real resources to kill him.

 

[boo600]

Yeah. He could probably scan every brain on earth at once, but that doesn't get him experimental data or teach him how to be a brain surgeon (where it's necessary to know more than to say 'ring do the thing'). Worse, he lacks the GLC basic package, meaning his ring lacks even general data on biological species; the basic Hinon-Ring fork is blank, bar programming.

 

[Yog]

Not sure why I'm enjoying the B5 branch as much as I am -I was never big into B5-, but eeeee this is fun.

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For me this is at least partly because unlike most other settings we have seen, B5 is a tighly wound story, not a sandbox setting. Orange Lantern by its mere presence distorts the story, with changes that are fun to behold.

The Vorlons have many ways to close the timeloop.

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Which are? TV canon only.

I'm honestly wondering if Kosh knew what was happening and didn't interfere either because he wanted to see what would happen, or because Ironheart could potentially hurt him.

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He probably could hurt Kosh, yes. At the very least he demonstrated comparable feats, if I recall correctly.

And if you go into the wider EU you get this, specifically from the Psi Corp module of the RPG. (Though of course Zoat's not using that.)

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So, the monitor of Earth isn't working properly even in the expanded universe? Is it stated why?

 

[Darko]

So, the monitor of Earth isn't working properly even in the expanded universe? Is it stated why

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The one in charge of that devoted their existence to tentacle porn.

Now that was a joke, but according to the expanded universe, a small group of Vorlons have devoted their existence to experiencing pleasure with Younger Races.

 

[BR549]

I think Bester is going to be too busy learning the pecking order from Kosh.

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stv73G7W-I4

I'm honestly wondering if Kosh knew what was happening and didn't interfere either because he wanted to see what would happen,

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Kosh: There was a point where they needed to stop and we have clearly passed it, so let's keep going and see what happens.

...also as noted before it may have functionally been the next step on the "Operation Develop Anti-Shadow Super Soldiers" plan, so if it worked, yay.