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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Tbryan said:
In case anyone doesn't get the reference
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First time I've thought of that since reading the side story... Preludes and Nocturnes, I think? The world contains a paradox due to a mistake Morpheus made, a tall ship appears in Destiny's path and it isn't in his Book, and Dream and "Dream of Cats" - the only alternate Dream who doesn't disappear from a Conclave of Dreams - have to use a similar phenomenon to save the universe. Also the story in which we meet the Endless's parents - Father Time, and Mother Night (who lives inside black holes).

Neat callback, which I completely missed. I am not good at Spot checks.
 
Mr Zoat said:
No, no, there, he move it over there later.
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'moved it'

Mr Zoat said:
but he hadn't been there at year, either
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'that year'

Mr Zoat said:
went to every people he could telling them how to dream,
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'could, telling'

Doccer said:
Shouldn't he have asked them to dream a lantern if Avarice instead?
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They apparently already did when he first asked them about dreaming of the cats as weak.

Anyway...

This chapter was trippy as hell and made me think that I need weed to figure out what's happening.

So basically Zoat managed to capture the spirit of a Gaiman comic.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
Boy, this was an interesting trip. I'm guessing an Australian Aboriginal elder telling a tale, or some other folk, from the context. I get the feeling other cutaways this episode will be similarly esoteric...
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It kinda reminds of that tale the old African guy was telling his son, grandson or just someone from their tribe, about how Dream's attempt at romance with an ancient queen lead to destruction.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Bet that'd be a confusing one for the archaeologists a long time from now. "Ah, yes, clearly some kind of divine figure. A Creator God, possibly..."
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Well, they wouldn't be completely wrong.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Hmm. Carrying a staff? Unusual for OL, but likely for an alternate...
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He may have done it either because he was injured and needed the support, and just kept using it even after he was healed.

Or he may have just wanted the Gandalf look.

Though this could apply to both paragon and a potential alternate.

Chojin Patriarch said:
And playing the part of the wise old elder in turn.
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Paul being wise.

A weird thought.

Chojin Patriarch said:
It's not so much the pictures, then, but the story they represent. And presumably, this Paul is more closely tied to the Dreaming, and thus the Endless...
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Betting Dream and Desire may have all sorts of weird feelings concerning him.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Ha! So not only freeing people from feline tyranny, but also acquiring a Lantern for himself. Resembling the one from Tangent Green Lantern.
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Maybe not quite.

It seems to be like an ordinary Lantern, albeit looking like an angry face, instead of being tied to the staff.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Because as we saw in the story, convincing even a dozen cats to do something is near-impossible, let alone a thousand, or a million...
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And it's the same in real life.

They just lay about.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Heh, Ancestor Paul listening in from afar, I see.
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And whatever love he may have originally had for cats is long gone.
 
PDV said:
First time I've thought of that since reading the side story... Preludes and Nocturnes, I think? The world contains a paradox due to a mistake Morpheus made, a tall ship appears in Destiny's path and it isn't in his Book, and Dream and "Dream of Cats" - the only alternate Dream who doesn't disappear from a Conclave of Dreams - have to use a similar phenomenon to save the universe. Also the story in which we meet the Endless's parents - Father Time, and Mother Night (who lives inside black holes).

Neat callback, which I completely missed. I am not good at Spot checks.
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The story you're describing is Sandman: Overture, the prequel to Preludes and Nocturnes and indeed the entire Sandman series, but written way after it.
 
iamnuff said:
Reminds me very much of The Last
Continent, by pratchett.
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Gaiman and Prachett were dear friends and collaborators.
They wrote one novel together "Good Omens" and it's one of the best things you'll ever read.
The amazon tv adaptation is also very good.

A sample quote:

"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players [i.e. everybody], to being involved in an obscure and complex variant of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time."
 
m_d said:
Missing period at the end of the sentence.
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What did we say about calling them that?
Out of curiosity, was there a set of gender markers that I didn't notice? It's not obvious to me that there's anything definitive there for the speaker. Talk of age, yes, and of journeying, and having a friend with a pretty stone, and a brother who hunts with a spear, but none of that pins anything down for me. There's speaking in the form of "father's father's father", for ancestors, but culturally, some speak of forefathers in a way that refers to ancestors generally, regardless of gender of the speaker or indeed the ancestors, much like the gender neutral "he" when speaking of people in general in some cases. Not being critical, genuinely curious, as I pictured a grandmother, even if not consciously noting firm gender markers, so I found the other references a bit jarring because I hadn't noticed I was unconsciously doing that until reading the comments.
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I was thinking 'grandmother', but it doesn't actually say that anywhere.
Darko said:
'moved it'
'that year'
'could, telling'
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Thank you, corrected.
 
Darko said:
Mine was the one where all those gods and entities tried to buy Hell.
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That one was very good as well, I like the Emperor Norton one because it was based on the true story of Norton I., Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico. Also Emperor Norton is considered a Saint Second Class in Discordianism according to Wikipedia.
Also I was born and grew up in the San Francisco bay area.
 
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WereDragon said:
An unusial and highly unpleasant style of prose. May we never have to suffer through it again.

Also: No context. No interest.
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Blame Neil Gaiman.

Dude writes a lot of stuff like this and Zoat was just imitating his style.

As for context, well you'll have to be familiar with the Sandman comics to know what the fuck they're talking about.
 
Darko said:
Blame Neil Gaiman.

Dude writes a lot of stuff like this and Zoat was just imitating his style.

As for context, well you'll have to be familiar with the Sandman comics to know what the fuck they're talking about.
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This entire train of discussion makes me feel kind of weird about having A. Never read the Sandman comics but also B. Feeling like I pretty well 'got' what was going on in the story.

It's mythopoetic as hell, but sure, but it's not just Gaiman. Gaiman was, to at least some degree, drawing on the well of 'real' mythology concerning the nature of reality and the idea of consciousness defining the world rather than the world defining consciousness. Spiritualism vs. Materialism, in Stellaris Empire terms.

Like, the story is a specific reference to Gaiman's story, sure, particularly the details with the cats, but that's not the important bit, narratively speaking? In the context of a character who quite literally shapes reality according to his desires.

I think the most confusing thing here might be how it's written as a dialog, but we're only directly seeing one side of the conversation. We're left to infer what the speaker is responding to, based on what is being said. Another character is implied to be present and interacting, but we don't see or hear them at all. They're not shown, so it's like we're hearing one end of a telephone call rather than watching two people talk, which can be a little disorienting.
 
Ideomancer said:
This entire train of discussion makes me feel kind of weird about having A. Never read the Sandman comics but also B. Feeling like I pretty well 'got' what was going on in the story.

It's mythopoetic as hell, but sure, but it's not just Gaiman. Gaiman was, to at least some degree, drawing on the well of 'real' mythology concerning the nature of reality and the idea of consciousness defining the world rather than the world defining consciousness. Spiritualism vs. Materialism, in Stellaris Empire terms.

Like, the story is a specific reference to Gaiman's story, sure, particularly the details with the cats, but that's not the important bit, narratively speaking? In the context of a character who quite literally shapes reality according to his desires.

I think the most confusing thing here might be how it's written as a dialog, but we're only directly seeing one side of the conversation. We're left to infer what the speaker is responding to, based on what is being said. Another character is implied to be present and interacting, but we don't see or hear them at all. They're not shown, so it's like we're hearing one end of a telephone call rather than watching two people talk, which can be a little disorienting.
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I'm with you. Never read any of the sandman stuff, and mostly know about the DC Dream from this fic, and I was able to follow the gist. The Dream reflects the people, and reality reflect the Dream, sort of thing.
 
Darko said:
They apparently already did when he first asked them about dreaming of the cats as weak.
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Ok I get it. But wouldn't it look like more of a hungry or screaming face? He might have gotten a Red Lantern if he asked for a angry face. Which I suppose is fine if he has a Red Ring.
 
Sungate (part 3)
11th September 2012
09:02 GMT

I put-

"No."

-Larfleeze's ring on the table between us.

"I haven't asked anything."

"Please don't imply that you believe I'm stupid. You've made it clear to me that I can't get the result I want if I stick to the Guardians' rules of engagement.. Do you not intend to recruit me?"

"I don't hate the idea. But there wouldn't be any point in you putting on an orange ring if what you really want is to be a Green Lantern. Though I would suggest that it might be worth trying it out, just to see what it feels like."

"The orange light is highly addictive."

"I can give it up any time I like. I just don't want to."

She pauses, briefly.

"That was a joke, I assume."

I hold out my left hand, palm level. And then I turn the ring off, and leave it off for a few moments before allowing it to resume its connection.

"It's a mildly amusing fact relating to one of the most popular narcotics of my homeworld, that a sizeable proportion of the population lack the receptors to actually get addicted to it, yet use it anyway. My desires are indeed the core of my psychological makeup. But I'll never slide into self-destructive urge-indulgence."

I pick up the ring and hold it in my right hand.

"You're doing all that the Guardians want of you, you know that? A Controller of my acquaintance told me that for the Guardians, the Sector Lanterns maintaining order is what the Corps is for. There is no demand from the organisation for you to go further."

"That doesn't matter."

"I've met four enlightened Green Lanterns. Two were human, but the other two weren't. If you managed that mental transformation yourself you would be substantially more powerful. I suspect that Lantern Priest of Sector One Six Three Four would be happy to advise you. He should certainly be able to spare the time."

"What are you doing?"

"Helping you overcome your contradictions. It's what I do. Let me repeat: there is no point in me trying to put a ring on someone who doesn't want it. Self-actualisation without restriction is an appealing concept to me, but it's not appealing to everyone and -given how enlightenment affects me- the idea of forcing it on someone who isn't ready strikes me as bizarre and wrong."

"Ready? You're so certain that it's right for everyone?"

"I can't see cutting off a chunk of your personality… Or if you prefer, a rationalisation of the phenomena emergent from the programming evolution has left you with… As anything other than ill-advised. Unless you've got more cybernetics than just your eyes, your physiology works best when used in a particular way. The green light is the actualisation of the useful trait of tenacity, your motive the intellectualisation and universalisation of the desire to protect the tribe."

I put Larfleeze's ring back on my right ring finger.

"The Orange Lantern Corps has no desire to directly compete with the Green Lantern Corps. Lord Malvolio of One Six Three Four may decide to do that, but I'd really prefer to cooperate. And that won't happen if I start pinching their Lanterns. Though if you're interested in trying an orange ring for the sake of comparison, I'm happy to lend one to you."

"But to your way of thinking, refusing an orange ring means that I want to be as I am, and not to destroy the Spider Guild."

"And that's not a terrible thing. Having a constant threat encourages people to develop their own strategies to deal with it. There's nothing stopping any of the worlds in this region building up their military resources and carrying out an attack. If they could depend on you for everything, why would they bother looking to their own defences?"

"Should I spend more time on that, do you think?"

"That would seem logical. But now you know how you feel, how do you feel about that?"

"Disappointed. I thought… That I was an unstoppable force of opposition."

"Then you can change your behaviour, better informed of your true nature. Or… Not, and at least you will know who you truly are a little better."

"That is true." Now she faces me directly. "I thought that you would be different."

"Oh dear. Are Green Lanterns spreading rumours about me?"

"Since we learned that you exist, some of us have tried to decide on a policy."

"There are two Sectors away from the Reach that have Orange Lanterns in them. Lantern Green Man appeared to have a reasonable relationship with Lanterns Komand'r and Koriand'r, and… The Alignment needed realigning."

"What can I do to help with the Spider Guild?"

"Create a coherent plan and put it separately to the governments and the people of the Sector. Share some of the-."

My ring blinks.

"Excuse me. Illustres here?"

Dox's face appears over the ring.

"Clarissi."

"The Spider Guild Nests in your area have requested a parley. Is it useful to you for me to pretend to be interested?"

"No, not really. But thank you for offering."

"Have you made progress with your task?"

"They're all stronger, but I'm not sure that it's anything we can systematise…" Hm. "Do we have any telepaths in the Corps?"

"I do not believe that telepathic conditioning would work."

I shake my head. "Me neither, but if we're trying to come up with a way to improve teaching and we don't have anyone else like me, telepaths would be the next best thing."

"Then yes, a few, but I do not believe that any of them would be appropriate."

I nod. "I'll see if I can talk Dubbilex into it. Anything else?"

"Controller Hinon has a task for you, but she wants to brief you in person."

"Okay. I can be-."

"She will come to you once she has met with Lantern Malvolio. Dox out."

A Controller and former Guardian… Coming to the largest centre of Lanternism in the galaxy.

I should probably warn some people.
 
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