Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[ses]

Biedde has no special detective skills and will not use cutscene powers on our behalf beyond his statblock

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

He found Uncle Steppe's criminal headquarters without issue.

 

[ses]

He found Uncle Steppe's criminal headquarters without issue.

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will not use cutscene powers on our behalf beyond his statblock

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

will not use cutscene powers on our behalf beyond his statblock

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In which case he is only relying on his +30 bonus for the finding, which is beyond the capabilities of even the most heroic of mundane investigators.

 

[Pittauro]

In which case he is only relying on his +30 bonus for the finding, which is beyond the capabilities of even the most heroic of mundane investigators.

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but usually investigators work don't start from scratch, they work from a crime scene.

If we want Biedde to get a SPECIFIC type of criminal, our best bet is to scry for one and tell him EXACTLY who we want

 

[Shaper47]

but usually investigators work don't start from scratch, they work from a crime scene.

If we want Biedde to get a SPECIFIC type of criminal, our best bet is to scry for one and tell him EXACTLY who we want

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Or put our Detectives on criminal cases and have Biedde nab one using insider information before they get arrested.

 

[Solace2117]

Haven't been able to follow all the discussions as much as usual, but for Velvet's actions, if we're not going to do the Edge Sacrament this turn, it might be worth doing Velvet's personal SH sacrament. She'll have her re roll and that would make finishing it easier in a turn or two.

 

[Shaper47]

Haven't been able to follow all the discussions as much as usual, but for Velvet's actions, if we're not going to do the Edge Sacrament this turn, it might be worth doing Velvet's personal SH sacrament. She'll have her re roll and that would make finishing it easier in a turn or two.

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Probably best to do Baldomare's first.

Makes our personal easier later and we don't really have the actions to take advantage of a SH influence which we'd want for our personal SH sacrament.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

but usually investigators work don't start from scratch, they work from a crime scene.

If we want Biedde to get a SPECIFIC type of criminal, our best bet is to scry for one and tell him EXACTLY who we want

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Eh, he's got a month, a supernaturally high bonus, and it being a pro-Colonel activity to work with. I think he's being underestimated here.

 

[Solace2117]

Probably best to do Baldomare's first.

Makes our personal easier later and we don't really have the actions to take advantage of a SH influence which we'd want for our personal SH sacrament.

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I mean I get that, but we still have to do it two more times. I'd want Baldomare's sacrament before the third, but the next one should be doable with the re roll.

Also as an unrelated note, if we're going to explore the stairways and potential meet Biede's Dyad, are we sure it's a good idea to get his Edge influence?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Y'know, we could probably send Axe out to kidnap a foal peddler. I'm sure someone so fond of children will have the appropriate opinions on what should be done with such monsters. That would leave Biedde free to hit us with an Edge Influence for Tall Tale, Sacrament, etc.

 

[ses]

-[] [DETECTIVES] (FOLLOW UP) They have confirmed the presence of changelings in Dodge City. Have them take a closer look, and focus their efforts there. (May not be picked with "Siege Dodge City")
-[] [CONSTABLES] (FOLLOW UP) Everypony heard what happened to your previous prisoner. Nopony wants to sit around and wait for what happens next. Time to raid the mountain of Tall Tale.
-[] [COMMISSIONER] Get your hoofs dirty. (Participate in the "Investigators" and "Constables" actions.)
-[] [DIRECTOR] Introduce another Lore to the Lunar Bureau. (LANTERN)
-[] [RARITY] Focus on her work. (Guarantees she will "succeed" on her career roll)
-[] [BALDOMARE] Channel an Influence. (LANTERN)
-[] [MAREINETTE] You need her to talk to… (Spoiled Rich).
-[] [AXE] Something else? (Make Bits(Burglary))
-[] [BIEDDE] Ask for an Edge Influence.
-[] [SELENE] You need her to talk to somepony about… (SPY on WINDY FLAKES)
-[] [SELENE] Soothe the night. (Her Winter realization. Unknown effects, if any.)
-[] You need somepony to perform this ritual… (Scry a Level 7 Book)
--[] To be performed in Jade's house (up to two-circle rituals)
-[] You need this to be done. Send a pony on an expedition. (Assault on Velvet Hill.)
-[] Jade's house is now adequately clean. Or at least sufficiently presentable for ponies to work on it. You should… (Forge-aligned ponies are better suited at attempting these tasks)
--[] You might need a place to… "store" your enemies. Alive. Dig a small prison under her house.
-[] Needs must. Ask somepony to procure you a dead body from the local cemetery.
-[] You would like somepony to help you with a small ritual (EDGE)
-[] One extra Velvet action! (Costs 2 follower actions)
-[] Actually, you would like to get rid of this. (Edge 3)

@OurLadyOfWires Last turn you said you didn't like plans that hard-lock in an assumption of a successful graverob action, how would you like us to format "We want the risen to do an AotL, no need to open a vote later in the turn. If we fail just take the AotL away". I feel like there ought to be an option to write in a particular action to get dropped in favor of taking over the missing risen action? That doesn't seem super complicated or even really a conditional. But just tell us how you want us to handle it. But the way generic actions go into a pool feels like we should be able to drop any generic action from the generic action pool in the event of failure even if the risen was never going to do it? And putting the Risen's action in the generic action pool just feels like it makes sense when doing the follower vote.

Anyway here's a proposal plan:
DOES Edge Sacrament
DOES NOT Leash Filthy
DOES Assault Velvet Hill
DOES Make a Risen

Adding a leash to Filthy adds an extra Edge AotL for the duel, which feels marginal enough it's not worth resorting to the leash for? Spending an Axe action on bits is likely to make 30-50 bits, which honestly a guaranteed 30+ bits is more valuable than an extra AotL by a lot, and I don't think we should drop it. As we JUST saw this turn where we might be dropping an important scry for lack of 5 bits, bits are important and it's very nice to have made them in advance instead of realizing you need them and all your options only get you bits a turn too late. We have enterprise critical expeditions coming up in the following turns. And 5% of Biedde's Duel is not worth 30 bits. If the God of Economics Textbook Problems showed up and offered to pay us over 600 bits to take a dive on the fight we should take it in a heartbeat.

 

[Shaper47]

Doing Tall Tale personally and our Edge Sacrament in the same turn seems needlessly risky.

It's not like we have a good reason to be doing Tall Tale personally anyway.

 

[ses]

Baldomare managed to join the attack on the Changeling Hive without getting an attack roll thrown her way. If we're at 1 hp we'll still have A Resolution and be surrounded on all sides by constables. We can just hang out in the rear and blast [LANTERN!], exactly like Baldomare did but with a crapton more safety net than she had.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

Baldomare managed to join the attack on the Changeling Hive without getting an attack roll thrown her way. If we're at 1 hp we'll still have A Resolution and be surrounded on all sides by constables. We can just hang out in the rear and blast [LANTERN!], exactly like Baldomare did but with a crapton more safety net than she had.

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With an Edge Influence active? I would be surprised if Velvet's personal involvement did not see at least a few rounds of combat.

 

[ses]

With an Edge Influence active? I would be surprised if Velvet's personal involvement did not see at least a few rounds of combat.

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Velvet is not required to be the Main Combatant, and in fact literally every constable will be rolling martial checks to prevent anyone from throwing an attack roll her way. It's just such a negligible risk. We're talking 5% of 20% sort of risk. Probably less to be honest. It's just not a realistic issue.

 

[Shaper47]

We can just hang out in the rear and blast [LANTERN!], exactly like Baldomare did but with a crapton more safety net than she had.

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...

You do remember that not a majority of the Bureau is in our cult right?

And that we're going to bringing the captured Changelings to Celestia for interrogation?

Because that's bad end material your suggesting.

Besides I'm still not seeing a good reason for Velvet to go. The Bureau is getting the loot not Velvet and we don't need to increase Bureau loyalty anymore for our subversion.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

If Velvet goes to Tall Tale with a Resolution on her one of two things will likely happen:

1. She crushes Changelings underhoof without taking a Wound.
2. She runs into a Worthy Opponent in there and thinks, "killing that will be way easier than hurting Biedde," and proceeds to says, "I see you my enemy," before trying to slaughter it using the AotLs originally reserved for trying to wound Biedde. Might get Wounded, might stomp like Comet did Shining.

 

[Shaper47]

1. She crushes Changelings underhoof without taking a Wound.
2. She runs into a Worthy Opponent in there and thinks, "killing that will be way easier than hurting Biedde," and proceeds to says, "I see you my enemy," before trying to slaughter it using the AotLs originally reserved for trying to wound Biedde. Might get Wounded, might stomp like Comet did Shining.

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Likelihood of a Worthy Opponent is extreamly low.

Likelihood of being headhunted by a group of say around 20 Changelings with most drones and one or two husks could be reasonably high.

Facing that kind of killteam with only say 4 bodyguards is not going to be a crushing victory for Velvet. Even with a Resolution.

 

[spiderhellian]

@OurLadyOfWires I know you don't want anything conditional in planning. But if we sign up for the Edge Sacrament, then get wounded going on Tall Tale, would we have the option to back out of the Sacrament and re-assign the AP?

Likelihood of a Worthy Opponent is extreamly low.

Likelihood of being headhunted by a group of say around 20 Changelings with most drones and one or two husks could be reasonably high.

Facing that kind of killteam with only say 4 bodyguards is not going to be a crushing victory for Velvet. Even with a Resolution.

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Ahahahaha what?

Who do you think is attacking whom, here? We've got the kill team. Equestria's finest.

Bringing a Resolution… to a combat mission… is bad… is just a baffling chain of logic

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Likelihood of a Worthy Opponent is extreamly low.

Likelihood of being headhunted by a group of say around 20 Changelings with most drones and one or two husks could be reasonably high.

Facing that kind of killteam with only say 4 bodyguards is not going to be a crushing victory for Velvet. Even with a Resolution.

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How big do you think a proto-hive is, that they can afford to send a team of 22 combatants to hunt down one pony in the midst of an all-out assault upon said proto-hive?

 

[ses]

Tall Tale is literally going to be an "MLP Does Starship Troopers" episode. We are... not going to be outnumbered 5 to 1 by enemies that have any chance of being threatening. This is Angry Celestia signing off on an extermination mission. The Crown is, uh, going to send some forces

 

[Sveta08]

Tall Tale is a location scouted by good Investigators that they more or less signed off on being "Reasonable for the Constables to take on"

Velvet with A Resolution and A Splendor will be the cutting shearing light of Celestia's will in this nonsense.
It's part of why I advocate for it.

I do expect there to be some unexpected challenges, but... never in the scope of this quest have I seen an option that simply says "Secretly, this option Kills you no matter what." I don't know why you think that would start now.



Edit: Well... that's not strictly true. But that's the Wolf. The Wolf, this is not.

 

[Shaper47]

Bringing a Resolution… to a combat mission… is bad… is just a baffling chain of logic

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I have no idea were you got this from, literally no idea.

I clearly said a Resolution would not be enough.

Who do you think is attacking whom, here? We've got the kill team. Equestria's finest.

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How big do you think a proto-hive is, that they can afford to send a team of 22 combatants to hunt down one pony in the midst of an all-out assault upon said proto-hive?

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Tall Tale is literally going to be an "MLP Does Starship Troopers" episode. We are... not going to be outnumbered 5 to 1 by enemies that have any chance of being threatening

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Remember who Velvet is to the Changelings.

Velvet is the Director of the Luna Bureau.

She's the top target on the Changelings kill list.

We haven't done any scouting of how many Changelings there are. Also they got a massive numbers boost from their Queens feasting choice. We're also not bringing in the army/Royal Guards just the Bureau's combat teams.

Your making a bunch of assumptions about the Changelings being weak here.

Velvet with A Resolution and A Splendor will be the cutting shearing light of Celestia's will in this nonsense.

It's part of why I advocate for it.

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Using A Splendour on Changelings is bad end bait.

but... never in the scope of this quest have I seen an option that simply says "Secretly, this option Kills you no matter what." I don't know why you think that would start now.

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Have you been reading the same quest?

Because the choice on either to tank Copper's massive winter death spell on one health or use a wrong key was basically this. With tanking being the this Option kills you.

We got really good rolls so we survived but going to the Dreamlands early game absolutely could have killed us.

I have suspicions about how Fighting the Master would have gone and it does not turn out well for Velvet.

Now there's absolutely no chance of Velvet dying via a killteam at Tall Tale. She can always run away (hi edge artifact). But getting injured is a threat that depends on dice rolls. And why risk it when we get nothing out of going?

 

[Nevermort]

I have no idea were you got this from, literally no idea.

I clearly said a Resolution would not be enough.

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It reads to me as only more reasons to do Edge scarament this turn. It gives us Resolution and multiple AoTL. If Velvet is in trouble she would use them. If she gets injured we hopefully be able to vote to skip Edge Sacrament action and do something else. And most of all if situation in the Hive is so bad that Velvet is at risk of being injured then Constables would be absolutely massacred without her and she must go to prevent it.

 

[Sveta08]

Have you been reading the same quest?

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Yes, actually. Quite thoroughly, as history would show it.

But that's about all I can say without being rude. So. Good luck in your arguments Shaper.

 

[Xoden]

A surprising turn of voting. I expected the Marienette-Cadance and the Rare Item to win.
Funny that the latter lost due to vote splitting with various Rare Somethings. Here you all can witness the devilry of the FPTP system and despair.

It reads to me as only more reasons to do Edge scarament this turn. It gives us Resolution and multiple AoTL. If Velvet is in trouble she would use them. If she gets injured we hopefully be able to vote to skip Edge Sacrament action and do something else.

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Yeah, for any other Lore-activity it would be ill-advised to plan two major actions for one month dues to only one reroll per month-turn, but it does makes sense for combat, since the combat reroll resets for each action scene.
But it feels unpleasantly risky without a conditional plan.

 

[Shaper47]

Yes, actually. Quite thoroughly, as history would show it.

But that's about all I can say without being rude. So. Good luck in your arguments Shaper.

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Look, I could be completely wrong on the risks.

My paranoia could easily prove baseless I'm not afraid to admit it.

I've been wrong on this quest before just as I've been right on things in this quest before.

But give me a good reason why we should do this action.

What is the payout for Velvet?

Why take the potential risk at all?

 

[Xoden]

Good luck in your arguments Shaper.

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Though they're appreciated for being entertaining and unconventional.

Because the choice on either to tank Copper's massive winter death spell on one health or use a wrong key was basically this. With tanking being the this Option kills you.

We got really good rolls so we survived but going to the Dreamlands early game absolutely could have killed us.

I have suspicions about how Fighting the Master would have gone and it does not turn out well for Velvet.

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Directly fighting Master or not using a Wrong Key were obvious "Press [X] to die" options with safer alternative options presented right there. Failing a Dreamlands exploration would have probably resulted in either a mental malus or a stigmata physical wound. It would be both too early, especially in the early semi-introductory esoteric exploration scene, and a bad game design to have a one-roll gameover.

Going to raid a Changeling hive is literally the PC's job. It's not supposed to be a death trap in-universe. Clearly not safe, but not a suicide mission. There could be some surprises, but that's normal, since no plan survives contact with the enemy, and it would be bad design for them to be too nasty, since the characters are not rushing in blind, but did the homework and coming in prepared. There could be a string of very bad luck, like multiple rolls low for us, high for enemies, but that's the name of the game.

 

[ses]

Forget game design, the place has been under surveillance for months by our detectives and we have thorough scouting information that says "We should attack the place with our constables, Commissioner!". Velvet doped to the gills with Edge buffs to make her stronger than a Windigo is not going to get dogpiled by 20 enemies accompanying what was already a sufficient force to win.

Velvet Covers with A Resolution is notably stronger than a Windigo (+45 for a windigo attacking a non-pony plus whatever bonuses they had for multiple windigos, probably +60 total vs +69 without AotL +90 with it). We've seen what happens when a Windigo attacks a changeling hive. They slaughter the bugs like a child having fun squishing ants. And we'll have the Bureau at our backs well prepared for war.