Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[spiderhellian]

Yes, this is exactly why I wanted to go to Tall Tale. So cool.

Close Range/Try to keep up feels fine to me. Combat is a messy space and getting a wound, even using AotLs, is just so annoying.

I'm not sure it's optimal, really, to go full send. Eclipse is likely to be annoying. But it will be so cool.

 

[Arrkhon]

I feel that refuge in audacity where we take the point and and tell them to keep up is the best choice, learning Moth should minimize the already low chances of any veteran on front line leaking anything, and frankly, us going solo would be even more suspicious if anything

 

[Greymere]

Honestly, I really want to go Take Point + Full Lore. That's a full turn's worth of focused Lore progression, and the faster we get the Bureau fully converted the faster we can get the benefits of actually having a cult, and not needing to worry about opsec for things like this in the future (or at least, in regards to things leaking because they don't yet know to not leak something).

 

[des-pair-2]

Well, there are really two ways we can do this. Either we'll take point with only Bureau's Lores, or we'll go alone and use our Lores. Going for a mix of other options makes little sense to me.

 

[DelightedOne]

Hmm, though choice.

I will just go for full lore development or full reward/risk. That is the whole reason we are here anyway.

 

[ses]

Getting Moth teaching requires spending our chance at loot, getting Random teaching requires spending either infosec risk OR physical risk.

I really dont think that the physical risk is enough that it should stop us. The chance of us getting wounded is probably sub-10% even if we Go Solo, and practically nil if we Take Point. Respect the numbers we brought. This expedition was entirely soloable by Velvet even if we hadn't brought the Bureau this turn.

Lets take our baseline, zero-risk, zero-loot choice of "Take Point, No Lores". That already has no risks associated with it as there's basically no chance the assault fails even if we don't bring our personal Lores, and this choice has no physical risks, and no infosec risks. It gives no loot, but offers one Lore Teaching. So we trade our Velvet AP we spent for a Commissioner action later, and also accelerate our timetable for the bureau. That's a decent enough use of our Velvet AP, so lets take that as the baseline and then decide if the other options are more attractive than that.

Maximum Teaching, Take Point, Full Lores: This gives us two Lore teachings and accelerates the Bureau by a full turn. I dont think that 2 teachings is more than twice as good as one teaching, since the benefits get drip-fed as we go regardless so saying "a full turn" might be misleading by implying too much emphasis on a set completion bonus. This still has no loot, and introduces substantial infosec risk, but I think it's just plain better than the default zero risk plan. The chance of Eclipse catching a rumor of us isn't guaranteed and frankly an entire Lore Teaching is well worth it as a price. But that infosec risk IS a price, just because it's not as bad as a Lore Teaching is good doesn't mean that it's not just as much of a price as the mild physical danger and risk of having to cancel the duel. It's probably a bigger cost in expectation as the physical danger costs us in expectation of going solo.

Maximum Rewards, Go Solo, Full Lores: This preserves our ability to get loot, and has the same amount of lore teaching as the zero risk plan. The infosec risk is only mild, and straightforwardly trades "Loot for physical danger" compared to the zero risk plan. Same Lore teaching, the infosec risk difference isn't worth worrying about, so it's straightforwardly a trade of "danger for loot".

We freaking need loot guys. If there's like, a Moth 4 artifact in there to steal that's SO important! If there's a decent level 4 artifact in there that's a way bigger benefit to All In than the edge sacrament is (4 lore levels is four times as much as 1 lore level). Bits hell is real, and restrains everything we do. Bits let us send more expeditions with more Name overkill, Artifacts let us upgrade expeditions frankly almost as much as a 2nd Name does with no associate bits/ap cost.

It's not just about the raw bits value, we really have overlooked just how important artifacts are because we burned ourselves early on spending all our budget on level 3 artifacts very early game when we really couldn't afford it. But artifacts are important. They allow us to brute force expeditions with shitty minions instead of Names, they allow us to have a Name solo expeditions without sending half our team, they're just so great.

Going for the loot directly increases our chance of Name Befriendings happening on schedule. Artifacts are that important for expeditions. Level N artifacts basically translate directly to Level N of total lore levels for expeditions because it's not like our current artifact bench is full of duplicates or requires jockeying for all the empty lore slots in our Names' hands.

Velvet is currently rocking +69 personal combat, and +60 Lantern with the reroll still unused, as well as Level 4 Moth and Secret Histories with rerolls unused. And level 5 Knock reroll still usued. It is extremely unlikely from how the QM designs expeditions that Velvet will get into a combat encounter more dangerous than the guards at Crepuscule Jailbreak unless it's as punishment for failing a Moth/Knock/Lantern noncombat hurdle. And Velvet squishes that combat encounter like ants. We have our Edge realization making us immune to ambushes, our Moth realization giving us darkvision and all sorts of narrative benefits to her ability to evade danger and move unseen, as well as our Knock realization making locks ineffective against Velvet. This is not going to be a case of Velvet shouting "Leeroy Jenkins" and throwing herself facefirst into a -40 Outnumbered penalty. Give her a bit more respect than that. Our only weakness is Heart, and I really doubt we're going to need to roll Heart for an important hurdle to avoid fighting too many changelings at once. Every other lore we currently have our reroll available and level 4 or better Lore.

(Also because I screwed up our plan vote for the month we have an unspent book study that current voters really dont want to spend on the Knock 5 book because of Baldomare lifeline: getting the loot means we might steal a studyable for that slot)

 

[Greymere]

Lets take our baseline, zero-risk, zero-loot choice of "Take Point, No Lores". That already has no risks associated with it as there's basically no chance the assault fails even if we don't bring our personal Lores, and this choice has no physical risks, and no infosec risks. It gives no loot, but offers one Lore Teaching. So we trade our Velvet AP we spent for a Commissioner action later, and also accelerate our timetable for the bureau. That's a decent enough use of our Velvet AP, so lets take that as the baseline and then decide if the other options are more attractive than that.

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Getting a single extra Lore this turn doesn't speed up the Bureau time table at all. The only thing it does is free up a Commissioner action sometime during then. Getting both the free Moth Lore and the free random Lore from Taking Point + Full Lores is the only option that actually changes when the Bureau gets fully initiated into all the Lores, giving us an entire turn of progress.

Like, just to show the timetables:

Turn -- Base -- Take Point -- Take Point + Full Lore

EoT22 -- 3/9 -- 4/9 -- 5/9
EoT23 -- 5/9 -- 6/9 -- 7/9
EoT24 -- 7/9 -- 8/9 -- FIN
EoT25 -- FIN -- FIN -- N/a

Sure, this might change if we run into further chances to boost the Lores outside of of Commissioner + Director actions, but we can't really plan anything around that.

 

[ses]

Getting a single extra Lore this turn doesn't speed up the Bureau time table at all. The only thing it does is free up a Commissioner action sometime during then. Getting both the free Moth Lore and the free random Lore from Taking Point + Full Lores is the only option that actually changes when the Bureau gets fully initiated into all the Lores, giving us an entire turn of progress.

Like, just to show the timetables:

Turn -- Base -- Take Point -- Take Point + Full Lore

EoT22 -- 3/9 -- 4/9 -- 5/9
EoT23 -- 5/9 -- 6/9 -- 7/9
EoT24 -- 7/9 -- 8/9 -- FIN
EoT25 -- FIN -- FIN -- N/a

Sure, this might change if we run into further chances to boost the Lores outside of of Commissioner + Director actions, but we can't really plan anything around that.

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The entire point I was making is that I dont think there's a "set completion bonus" that we actually need to care about. We get the benefits of a cult drip-fed as we go. Accelerating by 1 lore is half as good as accelerating by 2 lores, and caring about whether we hit 9/9 at exactly a turn end isn't what we should care about. If the benefits of a cult are drip fed as we go then that means that 8/9 is 8/9ths as good as 9/9. Getting Lore teachings is good but I dont think we need to care specifically about getting 2 more than twice as much as getting 1.

 

[Greymere]

The entire point I was making is that I dont think there's a "set completion bonus" that we actually need to care about. We get the benefits of a cult drip-fed as we go. Accelerating by 1 lore is half as good as accelerating by 2 lores, and caring about whether we hit 9/9 at exactly a turn end isn't what we should care about. If the benefits of a cult are drip fed as we go then that means that 8/9 is 8/9ths as good as 9/9.

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The difference between 8/9 and 9/9 is, at the very least, that the entire Bureau has been converted into a Lore-using organization who is loyal to us/Luna over Celestia. But perhaps more relevant to right now, we don't know when we're getting our cult bonuses. The only vague hint we have is that Bird said "ask me again" re: cadres and rituals when we hit 5/9.

And, oh wow. Would you look at that? Take Point + Full Lore gets us to 5/9 Lores.

 

[ses]

The difference between 8/9 and 9/9 is, at the very least, that the entire Bureau has been converted into a Lore-using organization who is loyal to us/Luna over Celestia. But perhaps more relevant to right now, we don't know when we're getting our cult bonuses. The only vague hint we have is that Bird said "ask me again" re: cadres and rituals when we hit 5/9.

And, oh wow. Would you look at that? Take Point + Full Lore gets us to 5/9 Lores.

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I understand what you're saying, and it's a worthy consolation prize, but I really just dont think that it's worth both giving up the chance at loot AND the substantial infosec risks.

 

[spiderhellian]

I kinda do want to go all in with full lores and maximum Velvet risk, just because it's fun to see her in her element, but I think you're a little
over-confident with combat. We'll be outnumbered certainly, get a few bad rolls and it's not hard to get wounded, and one wound makes winning against Biedde much less likely.

 

[ses]

I kinda do want to go all in with full lores and maximum Velvet risk, just because it's fun to see her in her element, but I think you're a little
over-confident with combat. We'll be outnumbered certainly, get a few bad rolls and it's not hard to get wounded, and one wound makes winning against Biedde much less likely.

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Biedde is only an 80% win chance anyway with a 20% chance of cratering us to one wound for zero payoff. It's really not the end of the world if we get unlucky anyway. Edge sacrament is +1 lore level. Getting a level 4 artifact is +4 lore levels to not just All In but every expedition we send minions on. Including the level 7 book expedition next turn. Do you really think there's no artifacts to get hold of?

Yes a wound is possible, but it's unlikely. It's really unlikely. We have less chance of getting wounded here than we have of losing the Biedde duel anyway. There's no possible way that we're facing a 20% wound chance. And the loot on offer may be unknown but we can't pass up the chance for artifacts or books or bits. This is the single most likely place in all of Equestria to find any heirlooms that the changelings managed to salvage from their original Hive from when they were exiled from the Mansus.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

So, two things I wanted to say.

First of all, let me just remind everyone that if a character/monster rolls 100 in a combat roll, they wound the enemy combatant.
Just so people don't think Velvet is invincible. Blind luck is still accounted for in the mechanics.

Second, please don't assume there will necessarily be "rewards" in the proto-hive.
No, seriously.

Spoiler: Seriously

Dungeons in canon CS are literally called "Vaults". And they are part of the game loop where you find SH scraps, search for expeditions, and go there with the expectation of finding artifacts and books to further fuel your climb.

I am fine with our unspoken agreement that the expeditions Velvet finds in this quest follow a similar vein. Because obviously, it would be quite frustrating if you guys spent actions and bits to find and go somewhere, face dangerous challenges, only for me to tell you about a really nice tomb or canyon that was left untouched for ages.

But, uh, this here place is not a necessarily a "Vault". It's a challenge that could (and was meant to) be done by the Bureau for Bureau purposes. It's more attached to your, you know, job of combating the changelings and other dangers to Equestria.

I'm not saying there will be NOTHING in there. I just don't want you guys to assume this is a "loot vault"(tm) and that you will be a fool not to go full-solo all-lores and all that.

This is just me being a QM and reminding you all that the way to get a loot vault is to search for a loot vault. And not use a full action point to jump into a half-commissioner-action and expect to get Bureau Progression, Cult Teachings, and Awesome Loot at the same time.

Now, for me to get up to date.

@OurLadyOfWires This kind of plot valid? I.e. Can we plant evidence at Tall Tale suggesting a planed Changeling attack on Celestia? Can Velvet borrow the Frangiclave from Axe for an expedition? Can Velvet summon an Ash-Ghoul using the gang members from the Visiting a Competitor expedition (i.e. narratively the action would happen straight after the expedition/defeated the gang members so they're not kept prisoner but used straight away).

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Selene asked you not to meddle with Celestia for now. So no.

Although I have it in my storyboard to have Selene contact you very soon about that.

actually... @OurLadyOfWires I don't suppose we could use Redemption of the Forge to remove the curse, or try to buy the services of a Curse-breaker?

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We can discuss looking for a curse-breaker (could even be a servant action) come next turn.

It's not completely out of the table, but to be honest it's just not an action I had considered.

You guys are so behind on artifact hoarding that I still am referring to my 2020 tables on artifact mechanics, back when my thought for cursed artifacts was just "tough luck lmao"

Probable cost for Baldomare would be 1 Baldomare AP, and to send Axe and a Risen (or alternatively 2 Mares in the Light). actually @OurLadyOfWires would Biedde count as 3 points too (out of 4 required)?

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No, Biedde counts for 1 point.

Other characters or summons count as 2 or 3 for reasons other than combat potential.

Im a little confused @OurLadyOfWires it says we advanced a step with both ponies but Filthy was already a Close Friend? Is getting told "you need to fix his marraige" considered advancing a step even though we already knew it? Cause it'll be hard to justify an AP on sealing the deal with Filthy next turn with 3 Sacraments on the itinerary and we dont really understand what Moth sacrament will even do to Spoiled other than that she will refuse to talk to Velvet which makes coming up with a plan harder

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Jumping from close friend to confidante always needed a little extra. I always hoped (and I think this has been the case so far) that we would be able to personalize or make the confidante-leap a little more special. Especially given how you are going for a "tall" build rather than a "wide" base of followers (we even invented Cover Your Bases mechanics because of that).

So, Filthy has reached the point where he needs that extra nudge. We will discuss how that looks like later.

So he had Pride and Wings meet, and now we have a chance to meet Wings ourselves?

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Wha...? No, I...

(Checks notes)

That was... that was a dream. A dream of regrets and unfinished business... was... was that not obvious from the narrative?

That whole scene never happened. Or it did, but only in Steppes' head, with nopony other than sneaky Selene to witness it.

- Incidentally, as far as I can tell the limits on Lore use are only for the Bureau operation itself, not any sabotage / first-pick actions we attempt, which reduces the cost of giving up this option. @OurLadyOfWires could you confirm this?

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I honestly did not understand your question. Could you please rephrase it?

@OurLadyOfWires , does the whole "I See You My Enemy," thing for Worthy Opponents count as a Strange Feat, or would it fall under the combat prowess umbrella of no concerns?

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Yes, that would be a strange feat.

You having unexpectedly high combat prowess will not be suspicious because you created a track record of that. But yes, if you find a Worthy Opponent (which would proc a quick vote) and if you vote to challenge it, then that would be a strange feat.

But it won't happen automatically if you pick the "just Edge" option, so don't worry about that outlier at this point of the planning stage.



I don't see any more pings. Please let me know if I am mistaken.

I hope you are all doing well.

 

[spiderhellian]

I like to think sacraments have some added value beyond the +1 lore level. I admit the Silver Key is not pilling its weight here… yet. But I have faith!

 

[Sk1lz3r]

All of this is a doozy. But I'm still in favor of taking point fueled by lores. Gotta get that Bureau up to truly usefull somehow.

 

[ses]

First of all, let me just remind everyone that if a character/monster rolls 100 in a combat roll, they wound the enemy combatant.
Just so people don't think Velvet is invincible. Blind luck is still accounted for in the mechanics.

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I think everyone understands that nat 100s and nat 1s exist, don't worry. But that shouldn't distract us from arguing over risks from a more grounded perspective of the actual most likely numbers.

This is just me being a QM and reminding you all that the way to get a loot vault is to search for a loot vault. And not use a full action point to jump into a half-commissioner-action and expect to get Bureau Progression, Cult Teachings, and Awesome Loot at the same time.

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We did have a legal expedition that we could have chosen to take to treat Tall Tale as a vault and send Axe over to it.

You could sneak in there, to either strike at the changelings yourself, steal from them, or maybe even PLANT something you would like your constables to find later. But unfortunately, this endeavor will not be without dangers.

(NOTE: This expedition will DISAPPEAR if the Lunar Bureau raids it before you do. But an expedition sent here will arrive before the Bureau raids it, if both actions are taken on the same turn.)

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We did do it in a slightly weirder way than that because of having max Bureau loyalty, but choosing to go solo sounds very similar to this. Like I understand what you're trying to say, and I understand that there might be nothing important. I hereby do solemnly swear that I will take the lick and not complain if there's nothing, but I do think it's fair for us to rationally make guesses based on the text to conclude that it's probably net positive and argue that we should go for it because there's a good chance of stuff to find. Making decisions based on incomplete information is the name of the game.

I like to think sacraments have some added value beyond the +1 lore level. I admit the Silver Key is not pilling its weight here… yet. But I have faith!

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I'm not saying it's not important. I'm saying that Velvet realistically has, what, a 10% chance of getting wounded? Maybe 15%? And even if that happens and we're forced to delay the duel... we miss out on 80% of a sacrament, not a full sacrament because we might have failed the duel anyway. And we can reassign the AP to studying the Moth 3 artifact and probably some cool artifact we find as loot (not guaranteed but I think we can agree that it's a good chance of happening). So that means, what, in total multiplying the probabilities that there's like an 8% chance that we lose out on challenging Biedde AND we would have won if we had tried it, re-assign the AP to something else worthwhile, even more studying or teaching Rarity, and like a 2% chance we accidentally save ourselves from a destined loss of an AP and month of recovery from getting our ass kicked? Those are at the end of the day all small probabilities. We need to compare to the chance that we find stuff that meaningfully helps us get the Level 7 book or otherwise meaningfully helps us, which I think is a lot more than 10%.

You guys are so behind on artifact hoarding that I still am referring to my 2020 tables on artifact mechanics, back when my thought for cursed artifacts was just "tough luck lmao"

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@spiderhellian I kind of want this line from the QM up in 50 foot flaming letters as my argument for why we should not pass up on the chance at loot. No it's not guaranteed but I think it's fair for us to consider reasoning under uncertainty that it's better than even chances and much more salient than the 10-15% chance of wounds.

 

[DelightedOne]

This is just me being a QM and reminding you all that the way to get a loot vault is to search for a loot vault. And not use a full action point to jump into a half-commissioner-action and expect to get Bureau Progression, Cult Teachings, and Awesome Loot at the same time.

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I will take that to mean we could have gotten the first two if we were willing to get our hoofs dirty this turn. Like last time.

Although I have it in my storyboard to have Selene contact you very soon about that.

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Ooooohh, now that is a good spoiler.

We can discuss looking for a curse-breaker (could even be a servant action) come next turn.

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Already expected that answer. But I dread how much it will cost(Bits).

Or it did, but only in Steppes' head, with nopony other than sneaky Selene to witness it.

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You know, it is times like these that remind me Selene must be really good at keeping secrets(Moth aside) considering her job involves a great deal of "watching" private property(in this case, minds).

Especially given how you are going for a "tall" build rather than a "wide" base of followers (we even invented Cover Your Bases mechanics because of that).

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Now I'm wondering if we could have put the Wolf Cult to cover our bases with the Servants.

 

[Limabot]

In the light of the Proto-hive not necessicarily having useful loot, I think "I will take point" is one of the better actions we can take due to spreading Moth in the Bureau for free (and spreading lores is one of the most valuable things we can do with them at the moment, in my opinion).

 

[Greymere]

Yes, that would be a strange feat.

You having unexpectedly high combat prowess will not be suspicious because you created a track record of that. But yes, if you find a Worthy Opponent (which would proc a quick vote) and if you vote to challenge it, then that would be a strange feat.

But it won't happen automatically if you pick the "just Edge" option, so don't worry about that outlier at this point of the planning stage.

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@OurLadyOfWires I have to admit, I find it a little odd that challenging a Worthy Opponent to a one-on-one duel would be considered a strange feat, but Velvet just going off into the hive all on her lonesome and coming out the other end alive and probably unharmed wouldn't be at least equally strange.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

@OurLadyOfWires I have to admit, I find it a little odd that challenging a Worthy Opponent to a one-on-one duel would be considered a strange feat, but Velvet just going off into the hive all on her lonesome and coming out the other end alive and probably unharmed wouldn't be at least equally strange.

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It's a bit of a compromise. But hear me out.

I try to veer into realism as much as possible, given that half the setting is literally a cartoon. And sometimes, I find myself trying to expose more CS-based elements because (very understandably) many of our votes take us towards more MLP-centric elements.

So yes, you make a great point. And I mean it sincerely.

But I also have to remind myself that this quest is half MLP. So, I can see how certain "heroic" ponies are permissible for regular onlookers. The Mane 6 frequently fought huge scary monsters (with eyewitnesses present) and if you think about it they were "just six regular women ponies".

So, from a realistic perspective, is it a stretch to say Velvet can go "I'll be in there, lmao, don't mind the screams" and not have that count as a mechanical point of suspicion. Yes, it's a bit of a stretch. But I am willing to let MLP culture take over for that.

But here's why I carve out the Edge Worthy Opponent. If you do that, then you have the added "everypony present knew in their gut that they could not interfere with that combat, and that something strange and otherwordly is going on".

I hope that makes sense. Or at least that's where my thoughts are taking me so far.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Welp, that just cements my desire to go solo. Because any Worthy Opponent in here will be easier to deal with than the Edge Name. Biedde is rather terrifying in combat.

Wait, if Challenging a Worthy Opponent makes every pony unable to interfere in a combat, would that mean such Opponents cannot use any allies or reinforcements? If so that's amazing @OurLadyOfWires.

 

[Nevermort]

I'd prefer to Take point. Most likely artifacts in this place are Grail and Moth and we already have Moth artifact to study. As for Grail if there is one in this place I'll happily send it to Eclipse in hopes that they will spend time to study it instead of lantern.
I also not that much concerned about suspicion levels, without appropriate Lantern level Celestia would not be able to expose Velvet and Eclipse by itself is not that hard to deal with.

 

[ses]

Welp, that just cements my desire to go solo. Because any Worthy Opponent in here will be easier to deal with than the Edge Name. Biedde is rather terrifying in combat.

Wait, if Challenging a Worthy Opponent makes every pony unable to interfere in a combat, would that mean such Opponents cannot use any allies or reinforcements? If so that's amazing @OurLadyOfWires.

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I dont think there's any real chance of it happening anyway.

I'd prefer to Take point. Most likely artifacts in this place are Grail and Moth and we already have Moth artifact to study. As for Grail if there is one in this place I'll happily send it to Eclipse in hopes that they will spend time to study it instead of lantern.
I also not that much concerned about suspicion levels, without appropriate Lantern level Celestia would not be able to expose Velvet and Eclipse by itself is not that hard to deal with.

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There is no chance of us taking a Moth Name to All In, having more than 1 moth artifact is not a waste. We are utterly clownishly massively behind on our artifact game, "we already have a level 3 moth artifact" is not your signal to stop gathering artifacts. Every single pony that attends all-in not named Selene or Velvet can use a Moth artifact for lore levels. Same with the level 7 book mission and the level 6 reagent mission.

Artifacts are a way cheaper and more cost effective way to bring lots of total Lore levels to expeditions than Names are.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

What ever happened to the big Moth artifact the Changeling had that was turned into a Latern artifact

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

What ever happened to the big Moth artifact the Changeling had that was turned into a Latern artifact

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It was not turned into a Lantern Artifact, it was destroyed.

 

[Greymere]

I'm still not particularly convinced that there will be either a Worthy Opponent or loot worth losing out on Bureau development, tbh. It's a proto-Hive, not a full-blown and established hive.

 

[Shaper47]

Selene asked you not to meddle with Celestia for now. So no.

Although I have it in my storyboard to have Selene contact you very soon about that.

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Interesting.

So I'm guessing Selene would be calling the shots on something like that.

Well that does cover a lot of people's concerns are probably my questions.

If Selene is ordering it then she's not going to be upset about sending an Ash-Ghoul or Biedde to clip Celestia's wings while Velvet and Mareinette grab the Mirror.

Axe is going to react a lot better to Selene wanting to help her sister so probably wouldn't have as much of an issue handing over the Frangiclave for a while.

Having Selene think that the effects of the level 7 lantern artifact and slowing down Celestia's lantern is worth the effort would also put to rest a lot of people's concerns on this.

I suppose the real question is the amount of communication between Velvet and her daughter.

Selene might not tell her if she thinks it's too dangerous.

@OurLadyOfWires Does Selene know about Velvet's full arsenal or trust her enough to speak about dangerous plans for the Celestia issue or would that require a social with her?

Basically Velvet is leaving Celestia to Selene but does Selene know that Velvet can (probably in a turn or two) do stuff like a Mirror expedition?

 

[DelightedOne]

If Selene is ordering it then she's not going to be upset about sending an Ash-Ghoul or Biedde to clip Celestia's wings while Velvet and Mareinette grab the Mirror.

Axe is going to react a lot better to Selene wanting to help her sister so probably wouldn't have as much of an issue handing over the Frangiclave for a while.

Having Selene think that the effects of the level 7 lantern artifact and slowing down Celestia's lantern is worth the effort would also put to rest a lot of people's concerns on this.

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...

You really have an obsession with chosing the most brutal route don't you?

I'm not even going to mention how weird it would be for Selene to kill ponies just to summon a creature.

 

[Pittauro]

Huh Edge is on level 1 while others are on level 2, still good to see them ever more useful

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It's Biedde's "free" level.

You know, maybe we might want to work on raising those levels sometimes. But we have so many other priorities...

Haven't kept up with the thread the last few months, are there any plans underway to get our Moth Sacrament and/or find and defeat/sacrifice Discord in the next few turns?

Celestia is still learning Lantern, and I dont think her RAGE is in a place where she'd believe us about Selene before she kills us.

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We have extremely good odds of getting Edge Sacrament this turn, and then Moth and probably SH next turn (not sure if Baldomare or Personal. Personal would require 2 APs + Baldomare influence, while Baldomare's would take only 1 AP, Baldomare's action, and 40 bits. So I suppose it depends on how many Velvet APs we have available).

Technically Grail too, but without having enough scraps for lvl 5 (we need all 4), which means we don't get to use the power.

If all goes well we'll accelerate Name and Sacrament gains considerably in these next 2-3 turns...

Ssssort of. How the Library works is that it wants X^2 lore 'points' per level.

So for Level 1, you just need a single source of that Lore. But tor Level 2, you now need an additional 4 points separate from previous level(s). So you could fulfil that with a Level 1 + Level 3 book, two Level 2 books, or a single Level 4+ book. Or four Level 1 books.

Then for Level 3 you need nine 'points' of Lore, which could be three Level 3 books, a Level 4 + Level 5 book, and so on and so forth.

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And this resulted in the funny loophole that, in theory, we could use infinite lvl 1 books to reach cult lvl 7 somehow. Remember that omake about Velvet being doomed to stay at lvl 1 while she slowly raised the cult to lvl 7, 8, 9, 10...?

---

And to be honest, a part of you does not blame the stallion. This is his city, and taking care of it is his job, and the storm over the mountains have been there for a few weeks now.

But by Celestia and Luna, could it hurt him to tell his citizens to toughen it out a bit?

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To be fair, this is kind of comparable to enforcing a curfew on a human city for weeks without apparent reason. I get him being frustrated, and we can't exactly tell him that he has emotivore parasytes hiding among his people and we're preparing to hunt them.

Especially considering HE might very well be one of them!

"Oh really? Is it necessary for whatever you are doing out here? Because I don't see a lot of doing going on. Besides, do you hoofs-for-brains know how gravity works? Do you realize all this rainwater goes downhill? Tall Tale's drainage system has been overloaded for three days now! I have streets getting flooded!"

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...that's a fair concern. Are they actually trying to flush out underground changelings by drowning them?

Receiving the governor, and letting him yell at you, is a kindness you are extending to him. It's an institutional decision, more than anything. So he can tell his citizens he tried everything in his power, and so the Bureau can be known to at least listen to the ponies that are troubled by its actions.

But ultimately, just like you think the governor should, you just weather this storm. Knowing what awaits you and your ponies tomorrow is more than enough to chill whatever anger you could feel towards him.

You will keep ponies like him safe, even he hates you, and even if it kills you.

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admirable.

And to be fair, if he knew he'd likely be far more understanding.

"-and I'll be in charge of that. I just came to warn you that she is coming here. Directly. To take charge of the assault."

The moment he says that, your blood runs cold. Because you know who "she" is. Of course you know.

He is referring to the Commissioner herself.

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quoting Rainbow Dash: "That it is time, yeah, time to be awesome!" (<- that's a link!)


...no, wait! @OurLadyOfWires warning in case you haven't seen it yet... But Hazbin Hotel actually has the PERFECT song for this!

It might need a few words changed, but it's near perfect!

Spoiler: season 2 episode 2

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_XHq6Vbiyw

Storm's comin', I can see the clouds
No runnin's gonna save you now
And hard rain is gonna fall down
Like gravity, like gravity...

Eye for an eye says you owe me a debt
Blood demands blood, gonna get my hands wet

The flood's comin', now you can bet on tragedy
Like gravity!



This one fits pretty well too, again with a few words changed...

Spoiler: season 2 episode 5

View: https://youtu.be/C86kilmGHGY?si=--Xf5Y7mZyLmrDFf&t=5

and potentially "Out for Love" from season 1 would fit too, I suppose... though that one would be better if it was sung to Soft Sweeps, actually.

...


'Cause I'm the furor!
I'm immense
I am the avatar of your consequence!

I'M YOUR OMEGA!
I'm the flood!
I am the nightmare you made
When you spilled our blood!

So cower and hide
Find a rope you can swing from!
Go say your goodbyes
To your lives

TO YOUR KINGDOM!

So, you can say you have recently reviewed your opinion on the Commissioner.

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good boy.

And more importantly, if the bastards could feel cold, then they will be shivering and miserable by the time you raid the place. That is, if some of them don't die first if part of the cave complex gets flooded.

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I knew it! We're trying to drown them!

-[] (TROOPS) "I will take point."
-Commissioner Velvet Covers will take direct control of Red Team as it assaults the proto-hive.
-Velvet Covers will always have seven (7) more trained soldiers with her for all combat encounters. At all times.
-Velvet Covers will be able to direct them in how to infiltrate the hive, and will consequently introduce the Lore of Moth to the Lunar Bureau (and will create the related Institutional Knowledge manuscript upon debriefing).
-Velvet Covers will not have any chance to manipulate, scout, or take "first picks" on whatever is found in the proto-hive. Everything will be witnessed by Bureau agents, and will be acted upon under an institutional lense.

-[] (TROOPS) "I will be in close range."
-Commissioner Velvet Covers will accompany Red Team as it assaults the proto-hive, but ordered them to act independently as needed.
-Velvet Covers MIGHT be able to call for aid during combat, if/as needed.
-Velvet Covers MIGHT have some chance to manipulate, scout, or take "first picks" on whatever is found in the proto-hive. But there is always the chance that Bureau assault ponies will be close enough to interrupt her, if she decides to do something strange.

-[] (TROOPS) "I will be in there. Watch for imposters."
-Commissioner Velvet Covers will warn all operatives of her presence, but will otherwise enter the proto-hive on her own.
-Velvet Covers can expect not to have any reinforcements from Bureau ponies, unless the successfully retreats from combat.
-Velvet Covers will most likely face more dangers, and will basically "soften" the proto-hive for the assault that will be behind her.
-Velvet Covers will have every chance to manipulate, scout, or take "first picks" on whatever is found in the proto-hive. If there is anything worth the hassle in there (which there are no guarantees).
-This option greatly decreases (but does NOT fully denies) the risks of using all your personal Lores in the "Lores" vote category.

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So

1)Introduce the Bureau to Moth, max security, no chance for personal gain. Also if there's a "worthy foe", it will be harder to justify a duel with no interference.

2) a chance for personal combat (worthy foe) and stealing loot (which might fail), but lower safety and no moth introduction.

3) max autonomy, max danger, max potential for gain (which is of course not guaranteed), max secrecy on lore usage.

-[] (LORES) "Lucky Brush and Steady Step will be our on-the-grounds expert."
-Velvet Covers will not use ANY personal Lore levels other than Edge for personal combat.
-However, for any Lore-related roll, you will ONLY use the Lore levels of the Lunar Bureau.
-Due to your well-known combat against the Windigo, it will not be suspicious for you to display your combat prowess.

-[] (LORES) "We have cutting edge equipment. Watch carefully."
-Velvet Covers will apply her personal Lore levels ONLY to the Lores that have already been taught to Eclipse (including Moth, if she teaches it now).
-That means that for any Lore-related rolls, the Bureau will apply its own personal level, as well as Velvet's level as if she was a participant of an expedition. But ONLY for the Lores the Bureau knows.
-There are some risks that Eclipse will hear, even if tangentially, about any "strange feats" that take place today.

-[] (LORES) "Try to keep up."
-Velvet Covers will apply all her personal Lore levels to any situation that arises during the assault.
-Velvet Covers will teach one random Lore to the Lunar Bureau (random as in, depending on how things develop), and will create the related Institutional Knowledge manuscript upon debriefing.
-This has the highest chance of Eclipse catching wind of any "strange feats" that take place today. But you cannot quantify how risky this is.

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1) Velvet holds back on not-bureau-known lores

2) Velvet shows herself as a prodigy, but only in fields the Bureau is good at.

3) Velvet doesn't hold back at all.


I think that "Try to Keep Up" pairs decently with "I will be in there", and "We have cutting edge equipment (use velvet's lores in bureau-known lores)" works well with her staying with the Bureau.

Also teaching Moth might help in keeping what we'll do secret from Eclipse, if nothing else by making our Bureau more secretive.

 

[Solace2117]

Honestly I'm only really comfortable going full lores on the solo option. According to the text it still teaches a lore, gives the opportunity for some loot, or at least first crack at information and the ability to manipulate it favorably. It also potentially reduces witnesses if we find a worthy opponent. Yeah it risks a wound which could set us back, but we are at least well specced for it. I just don't feel like dealing with Eclipse fallout and would rather minimize it.