Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Solace2117]

Honestly I'm only really comfortable going full lores on the solo option. According to the text it still teaches a lore, gives the opportunity for some loot, or at least first crack at information and the ability to manipulate it favorably. It also potentially reduces witnesses if we find a worthy opponent. Yeah it risks a wound which could set us back, but we are at least well specced for it. I just don't feel like dealing with Eclipse fallout and would rather minimize it.

 

[Shaper47]

I'm not even going to mention how weird it would be for Selene to kill ponies just to summon a creature.

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If she wants to White Knight it they could send Biedde instead of an Ash-Ghoul.

I did put that option in there remember.

Of course Selene might care more about her family then thread White Knighting and prefer to keep Biedde around on guard duty. I mean it's not like her mother was almost killed in an attack on their home just a little while ago or anything.

 

[Pittauro]

Oh boy, I am sorely tempted to just try and go solo with Max Lores. But then I remember how brutal the Outnumbered Bonus and Malus are, and find the idea of having reinforcements at least in calling range to be worthwhile.

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True.

Though to be fair our combat rolls are... +69. AND we're good enough at Moth we can probably ambush them first too.

Soloing Tall Tale was entirely viable a choice without the Bureau even taking part in the assault, im really not too concerned about the danger there.

Teaching the lore of Moth is very tempting though. It may just be worth giving up the chance at loot. And I dont think the troops vote would interact with our Knock Sacrament if that's a thing that can happen here.

If we take point and use full lores we can accelerate our cult getting online by a FULL TURN

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Keep in mind that going alone we'd have different objectives than going with the Bureau.

Alone, it's a treasure hunt for the most part.

with the Bureau, it's an Extermination Campaign. Basically a genocide, even, for better and worse.

I just don't want to be on the reverse end of a 7 vs 1 fight, eating -30 to your Combat Checks sucks. Though if we assume the Changelings have 0 Edge then we've still got a 39 vs a highest score of 25 in such a case...

Oh wait, we have 2 Edge AotLs to pop in the worst case scenario of staring down a Heroic Unit and 6 of his best Broodmates, nevermind then.

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That too. though of course the worst case scenario would in that case be us facing multiple weak units, wasting AotL charges WITHOUT even finding a worthy foe, leaving us unprepared for Biedde.

And that's ignoring the chance of actual wounds, of course.

@OurLadyOfWires how will you use our AotL charges? On the one hand we want to save them for worthy enemy or Biedde, on the other we don't want to get hurt...

Velvet rolls +29 to Combat at Base. A Resolution brings that to +69. That is higher than a Windigo's +55. For those without Lore Levels, the absolute highest a Pony can go is +25. Being outnumbered inflicts a -5 penalty per enemy outnumbering you. Let's say we royally screw up and somehow are stuck fighting the absolute pinnacle of Changeling Combat and their 6 Sworn Swords in a locked room with nowhere to run and hide; their big fighter would have a +25 against Velvet's now +39, uncomfortably close. And then we pop one of our AotLs to double our Edge Application Bonus and pop back up to +59 in order to try and paste someone to make things easier. Velvet is insanely dangerous right now.

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IN THEORY more than +25 is possible, but it's extremely unlikely.

Like, literally peak mortal martial would be 20, to which you might add maybe +10 from traits from the very best training and talent possible.

We know +5 talents exist and, while uncommon, are not exactly unique.

Character creation had this, for example:

SPECIES

[ ] Earth Pony: Those who say your species is "grounded" and without magic are dead wrong. Your species is the strongest of the three, and your connection to the land is second to none. (+2 Martial, +1 Stewardship).

[ ] A (sick) dragon: You do not know why, but you will never grow any more than you already have, about a head taller than a normal pony. Maybe you joined a cult to find a purpose for your life, maybe you joined it to find a solution to this problem. (+4 martial, +2 magic, flight capable, +5 personal combat)

[ ] A gryphon: You're a long way from home, and when you first arrived you did turn a lot of heads. But you've been settled down for a few years now. (+3 martial, +2 intrigue, flight capable, +10 personal combat)

NOTABLE CHARACTERISTICS

[ ] a Workhorse: Lean or robust, tall or well built. You stand a full head over other ponies. (+2 Martial, +5 on tests that require physical strength, and personal combat).

YOUR PARENTS WERE

[ ] Soldiers: Not members of the royal guard, but the sight of spears and armors was normal for you as you grew up. Not many ponies can count "polishing helmets" as a household chore. (+2 Martial, +5 personal combat, -1 Stewardship)

REMEMBER THAT TIME WHEN

[ ] You went out on an expedition: Timberwolves are a stark reminder of how hard wood can be, especially when its sharp, sentient and bearing down on your throat. (+1 Martial, starts with personal combat gear)

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so, even without Edge, starting from 8 (average) and adding bonuses from traits just at character creation we could have had an Earth Pony Workhorse from a family of Soldiers who fought Timberwolves, with 15 Martial and +10 combat.

Yes, we could have been as good as Shining Armor in combat FROM CHARACTER CREATION, WITHOUT EDGE. Though it was not possible to make a UNICORN as good as he, admittedly, not without Edge.

As above but (sickly) Dragon, +32 with flight.

As a gryphon, +36 with flight.

again, without Edge.

...damn, Gryphons are really just better combatants than ponies by far.

...Can you imagine if we had accidentally made ourselves "worthy opponents" and Comet had gone for us?!

In a locked room? What is the sole Lore we are Sacramented in again?

I kid, I kid. But it is worth pointing out that +55 is the Windigo's bonus against ponies, not changelings. And last time that Windigos were unleashed on a Changeling Hive despite the fact that Windigos are only +45 against changelings it wasn't even a fight. It was apocalyptic cruelty like children squishing ants. Velvet is rolling +69.

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To be fair, Windigoes also have that horrifying "after fight, heal up". Which means you kill them in a single fight, or not at all.

Windigos do get a stacking bonus based on the number of Windigos present for an action. They were definitely rolling at more than +45 for that assault.

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oh, and that too.

And of course the Master and Comet were there too.

MAXIMUM DANGER MAXIMUM REWARDS "I can take them" It's only hubris if we fail A pop tart is a sandwich

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ah, the old chaotic evil chart...

it's surprisingly tempting

We freaking need loot guys. If there's like, a Moth 4 artifact in there to steal that's SO important! If there's a decent level 4 artifact in there that's a way bigger benefit to All In than the edge sacrament is (4 lore levels is four times as much as 1 lore level). Bits hell is real, and restrains everything we do. Bits let us send more expeditions with more Name overkill, Artifacts let us upgrade expeditions frankly almost as much as a 2nd Name does with no associate bits/ap cost.

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Sacraments are more than JUST +1 lore level. We're not still fully clear on how good sacrament powers are, but we've seen how good lvl 3 Realization powers can be in the right circumstances, and Sacraments are FAR above those.

...I really hope that the Knock Sacrament comes into play in this expedition. I really want to know what it does exactly.

Also keep in mind that AFTER All In, the next step is the Mansus Expedition, and also that we have a few Mansus areas to check, and we can't benefit from assistance there.

Of course a high level artifact can also be converted to bits, which can be converted into power in other ways. For example, the Forge Sacrament will require a decent amount of bits (200 for Cherenkolt's, unknown but potentially even more for Personal), so would MitL summons, or a few other sacraments if we go for them (Personal Winter is at least 90 bits, Baldomare SH is 40 bits, we might want to call Influences to help with some of them...).

Velvet is currently rocking +69 personal combat, and +60 Lantern with the reroll still unused, as well as Level 4 Moth and Secret Histories with rerolls unused. And level 5 Knock reroll still usued. It is extremely unlikely from how the QM designs expeditions that Velvet will get into a combat encounter more dangerous than the guards at Crepuscule Jailbreak unless it's as punishment for failing a Moth/Knock/Lantern noncombat hurdle. And Velvet squishes that combat encounter like ants. We have our Edge realization making us immune to ambushes, our Moth realization giving us darkvision and all sorts of narrative benefits to her ability to evade danger and move unseen, as well as our Knock realization making locks ineffective against Velvet. This is not going to be a case of Velvet shouting "Leeroy Jenkins" and throwing herself facefirst into a -40 Outnumbered penalty. Give her a bit more respect than that. Our only weakness is Heart, and I really doubt we're going to need to roll Heart for an important hurdle to avoid fighting too many changelings at once. Every other lore we currently have our reroll available and level 4 or better Lore.

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all good points. Our Realizations give us quite the decent array of skills and powers, really.

As you said, we no-sell ambushes, we have darkvision, we can open most locks, whatever the Silver Key does, and our vast array of rerolls and high bonuses on many kinds of actions... including finding loot (SH)

You might have convince me to go "max lores, max risk". We need to take bets sometimes... and damn, it would make for such a cool update!

(Also because I screwed up our plan vote for the month we have an unspent book study that current voters really dont want to spend on the Knock 5 book because of Baldomare lifeline: getting the loot means we might steal a studyable for that slot)

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I don't think we can use the slot on a book we get THIS turn. We've never been allowed to do that.

We should check if any minor book ranks up a bureau level.

BOOK, HEART Level 1. "A small book that covers a particular kind of elegant dancing".
BOOK EDGE Level 1. "The title is self-explanatory: 'Four self-defense spells every unicorn should know'. You doubt they are anything more than different variations of concentrated telekinesis."
BOOK, FORGE Level 1. "A small handbook on camping, explaining the basics of how to build a tent and start a small fire".
BOOK KNOCK Level 2. "A fairly recent, and short, book about dream interpretation. You know it is recent because it was dedicated to Princess Luna's return".
BOOK KNOCK Level 5. "An initial survey of its pages reveals several drawings, or perhaps instructions, on how to build bridges and maintain clocks. You suspect the book is about more than just that." (Requires deciphering. Progress 0/100. From One Era Ago, "-30" to deciphering rolls.)

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Ignoring Knock 5, just to be safe, that leaves the other 4.

our bureau levels for those lores...

FORGE: Level 2 ( [Cherenkolt] + [4/2] + [1/3 + 3/3 + 3/3] )
EDGE: Level 1 ( [1/1] + [3/2] )
HEART: Level 2 ( [Mareinette] + [2/2 + 2/2] + [3/3] )
KNOCK: Level 2 ( [Daughter-of-Axes] + [1/2 + 3/2] + [2/3] )

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mh... I think the Edge book would actually bring the Bureau to Edge 2!

@OurLadyOfWires I don't suppose you could let us take that now before the expedition, considering it could make a difference? It doesn't even really need a vote, it seems like the objective best choice and I don't think anyone would complain.

Maybe add the vote to this turn's voting session if you still want to have it formally discussed?

First of all, let me just remind everyone that if a character/monster rolls 100 in a combat roll, they wound the enemy combatant.
Just so people don't think Velvet is invincible. Blind luck is still accounted for in the mechanics.

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Imagine someone rolling nat100 against Biedde

In the old world would that be the Colonel playing a prank on Biedde?

I'm not saying there will be NOTHING in there. I just don't want you guys to assume this is a "loot vault"(tm) and that you will be a fool not to go full-solo all-lores and all that.

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fair.

In the end we're taking a reasonable bet on there being something worth looting, or worst case experiences that will give us scraps of lore I suppose.

Selene asked you not to meddle with Celestia for now. So no.

Although I have it in my storyboard to have Selene contact you very soon about that.

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We'll see what she wishes for us to do. For all we know SHE might propose a PtN and/or Incision variant. She knows of the rituals, and she knows how PtN was used against her after all.

Maybe she'll decide to go for a fight in Celestia's dreams, having us join her as support. Maybe she'll be inspired by the Harmonic ritual used on her to awaken her, and think of a variant that would "calm down" Celestia.

Maybe she'll think of the Elements, and of a way to use her without Twilight.

We can discuss looking for a curse-breaker (could even be a servant action) come next turn.

It's not completely out of the table, but to be honest it's just not an action I had considered.

You guys are so behind on artifact hoarding that I still am referring to my 2020 tables on artifact mechanics, back when my thought for cursed artifacts was just "tough luck lmao"

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It really depends on how strong the "curse" is. Cursebreaking is unlikely to be common, and doing it without breaking the item will require rare skills... but then again, if pony magic made it, pony magic can probably unmake it. Or maybe it could be as simple as using a Jade action to develop a Forge ritual to uncurse it.

Or we could just sacrifice it for a +40 bonus to a "call winter influence" ritual. Would that have the curse affect us? Because if we did that then the Winter Sacrament would actually be fairly doable In a turn I think (IF we're willing to go for it at least).

No, Biedde counts for 1 point.

Other characters or summons count as 2 or 3 for reasons other than combat potential.

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...are MitL there as a "light" snack for Baldomare?!

Wha...? No, I...

(Checks notes)

That was... that was a dream. A dream of regrets and unfinished business... was... was that not obvious from the narrative?

That whole scene never happened. Or it did, but only in Steppes' head, with nopony other than sneaky Selene to witness it.

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On first read I thought it might have been a memory. I got it later.

...our of curiosity... Velvet's uncle disappeared. She could, realistically, want to find him. How amused would you (and He) be if we asked Biedde to track our uncle and help him if he's in trouble?

We did have a legal expedition that we could have chosen to take to treat Tall Tale as a vault and send Axe over to it.

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But we would have gone alone, without the Bureau around, and probably not on a genocide mission.

Like, even if NARRATIVELY there's loot, and even if we go at it alone... it's realistic for Velvet to not find some by being unlucky, and for the soldiers to find it first. We can't explore the WHOLE hive before they do, after all.

But here's why I carve out the Edge Worthy Opponent. If you do that, then you have the added "everypony present knew in their gut that they could not interfere with that combat, and that something strange and otherwordly is going on".

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out of curiosity, is it LITERALLY impossible for people to interfere in such a duel? Like, if they had an actual reason to want to?

Imagine that Comet had approached Shining while he had a whole platoon of guards at his side. Would they just have been forced to stand and watch? Is such a request for a duel something that the Laws force you to accept?

If so, I wonder if it has ever been abused. For example, to allow someone to escape while you "buy them time".

I dont think there's any real chance of it happening anyway.



There is no chance of us taking a Moth Name to All In, having more than 1 moth artifact is not a waste. We are utterly clownishly massively behind on our artifact game, "we already have a level 3 moth artifact" is not your signal to stop gathering artifacts. Every single pony that attends all-in not named Selene or Velvet can use a Moth artifact for lore levels. Same with the level 7 book mission and the level 6 reagent mission.

Artifacts are a way cheaper and more cost effective way to bring lots of total Lore levels to expeditions than Names are.

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Also we can always sell them for Bits to use on other actions (expeditions that give us even MORE loot, some Sacraments, buy books or more useful artifacts, medicine if we get injured, rituals...), or sacrifice them for ritual bonuses if truly important.

I'm still not particularly convinced that there will be either a Worthy Opponent or loot worth losing out on Bureau development, tbh. It's a proto-Hive, not a full-blown and established hive.

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There might or might not be. From my above analysis of character creation, it WAS possible to create Shining-Tier fighters even without using Edge, so if the leader of this Proto-hive is a peak-tier changeling then it's possible.

It's of course a bit unlikely, but a general/elite soldier surviving and taking charge is not impossible.

If Selene is ordering it then she's not going to be upset about sending an Ash-Ghoul or Biedde to clip Celestia's wings while Velvet and Mareinette grab the Mirror.

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...it's truly unbelievable how you can twist Bird's words to suit your desires...

 

[Shaper47]

it's truly unbelievable how you can twist Bird's words to suit your desires

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Don't be rude.

It's Selene's choice on how she wants to play this.

She could always leave her mother out to dry and risk her getting killed by her sister in the end.

 

[Pittauro]

Don't be rude.

It's Selene's choice on how she wants to play this.

She could always leave her mother out to dry and risk her getting killed by her sister in the end.

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How do you not realize you're just proving my point?!

 

[DelightedOne]

If she wants to White Knight it they could send Biedde instead of an Ash-Ghoul.

I did put that option in there remember.

Of course Selene might care more about her family then thread White Knighting and prefer to keep Biedde around on guard duty. I mean it's not like her mother was almost killed in an attack on their home just a little while ago or anything.

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Shaper, Celestia is the White Knight... Selene is the Dark Blue Knight.

 

[Greymere]

As above but (sickly) Dragon, +32 with flight.

As a gryphon, +36 with flight.

again, without Edge.

...damn, Gryphons are really just better combatants than ponies by far.

...Can you imagine if we had accidentally made ourselves "worthy opponents" and Comet had gone for us?!

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I will forever regret that I didn't find this quest at its beginning to advocate for a gryphon MC. We'll never get to see what the Mansus is like from a non-pony perspective. :-(

@OurLadyOfWires I don't suppose you could let us take that now before the expedition, considering it could make a difference? It doesn't even really need a vote, it seems like the objective best choice and I don't think anyone would complain.

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It should still be a vote just for integrity's sake, though yes, if it brings the Bureau up to Edge 2 I'd definitely vote for it.

 

[Limabot]

If she wants to White Knight it they could send Biedde instead of an Ash-Ghoul.

I did put that option in there remember.

Of course Selene might care more about her family then thread White Knighting and prefer to keep Biedde around on guard duty. I mean it's not like her mother was almost killed in an attack on their home just a little while ago or anything.

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You do remember that Selene still considers Celestia family too, right? From her perspective, she is bascially watching her sister undergo a slow-motion mental breakdown from inside her own head while actively being destabilized by the Lores and the equipromorphic personification of her intrusive/angry thoughts.

Attacking Celestia outright would come across to Selene as kicking a family member while they're still struggling, especially with something as inimical to reality as an Ash-Ghoul (especially since Mares-in-the-Light exist).