With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

ForeverShogo · 2026-05-10T02:56:50+0100

Show lore is stupid. The Zetan implications are also stupid.

The most sensible conclusion one can draw is that China launched first because it was losing the war.

China was getting its teeth kicked in once the United States started deploying power armor in significant numbers. After defeating the Chinese invasion of Alaska, the United States counter-invaded China itself and we know of at least two campaigns. The Gobi Desert Campaign, which saw fighting in and around the Gobi Desert, and the Yangtze River Campaign that at the very least saw the capture of Shanghai and Nanjing. And judging by some of the details given, namely the months spent fighting in Nanjing and Shanghai, they were advancing from west to east since they took Nanjing before they took Shanghai.

They also took Shantou, a coastal city further south that's pretty near to Taiwan. From what I recall, all of the above was actually before T-51 power armor went into mass production which was the model that really put the hurt to China.

Bethesda trying to clumsily insert these stupid conspiracy theories for who launched first is just dumb when the easiest conclusion to draw is that China was losing and decided to make it everyone else's problem.

https://imgur.com/6DROhhK

Mr Zoat · 2026-05-10T07:06:52+0100

mastermenthe said:
I deeply appreciate seeing these little moments of rage from you. It's humanizing.

Yes. I am human. Continue to enjoy my internet writings, fellow human. How are you humaning today?

But really, if they're just going to ignore the entire established body of lore, couldn't they have used the Borderlands licence instead? After the film flopped it can't be that expensive. The only remotely good thing about it is finally getting definitive confirmation that Todd Howard hates Fallout: Vegas.

Mr Zoat · 2026-05-10T07:18:55+0100

7th September 2013
22:46 GMT

"That's weird." Bleez looks around the bare rocky hillside we're standing on, clearly not seeing something she expected.

Jade and I are paying more attention to the airbase in the valley on the far side of the hills from Thanaldar for obvious reasons. If Thanagar is expecting an attack, combat air patrols would increase in frequency, or at the very least everyone would get recalled to active duty. On the other hand, if the navy was heading off to attack someone it should be business as usual amongst the self-defence force.

"What?"

"At this time of day? There should be some other people around." She spreads her wings out slightly, feeling the wind. "There's good thermal updrafts coming from these rocks."

"Is that an assumption, or have you seen people using them in the past?"

"I can feel the thermals myself."

"Is it an assumption that people here use them like that? City people don't necessarily have the same interests that you do."

"Yah, I've seen people flying up here before."

"What sort of people?"

"Huh?"

"If we know what demographic would normally be here and now isn't, that might tell us something about what's going on."

"Ah… Everyone?"

Jade and I regard her sceptically.

"What?"

"I remember how much space the flying slopes on your world give the people using them-."

"That's because our thanagarian population is pretty low, and the natives can't fly! That's not how things normally are! It's like… Not the military so much, because they've got actual gymnasiums with weight-rigs and stuff. But undersiders and topsiders both come out here." She makes an 'I'm thinking' wing-jiggle. "You know… The total population of thanagarians… Probably isn't much bigger than the total population of humans. I mean, we build up rather than out like you do, but it's… Just the cities, and a couple of other places where we even live."

Jade frowns as she takes that in. "What about the colonies?"

"Same deal. Havania's got, like… Fifty million thanagarians? And half of that's in our one actual city. And most of the others have about the same? Apart from Conrall, but they've got no native population so then had to have a totally different culture. The New Colonies are different, but they're new, so they only have a few hundred thousand thanagarians. I don't know what the exact total number of thanagarians there are is, but it's… I think it's about six billion thanagarians total?"

"Does that include Queen Hyathis's followers?"

She moues in distaste. "Unless they've been doing nothing but breeding? That's maybe fifty thousand. At most."

"Oh? I thought the divide-."

"Yeah, yeah, the counter-c-. I mean, y'know, the putsch?"

"I don't mind what you call it."

"Right, well… Most people weren't exactly in love with Hyathis? And she took a lot of the ones who did with her. So when the… You know, took over, well… They killed most people who could have created problems for them. Except the ones who ran for it, but… Like, culturally? We're not good at that."

Jade nods. "And after decades of indoctrination, people who were neutral aren't."

"And their kids aren't, either."

"So at this point the thanagarians who are pro-Hyathis are a tiny minority."

"I mean… I haven't checked, but, probably?"

"Is Thandalar under martial law?"

"Yeah? For, like, longer than I've been alive?"

"I mean, was there some sort of 'don't leave the city' warning that I didn't notice."

"If there was, I didn't notice it either."

Jade looks around more carefully. "Are there any cameras?"

"I doubt it. Important people would bring bodyguards or drones with them, if they wanted. But outside of underside, Thanagar's crime rate is pretty low."

"So… Outside of the violent crime-ridden hellhole with almost no police presence… Crime's pretty low."

"Yes!"

Jade thinks for a moment. "If we don't know when people stopped using the slopes… We can't tie it to anything. And I doubt that the Thanagarian government will let us take detailed scans of the area."

"I mean…" I raise my left fist.

She shakes her head. "We don't know what you're looking for, and their government is already concerned about you being here."

"Alright, so… Just sight-seeing?"

Her eyes drift away for a moment, before returning to my face.

"We need to talk-." I cringe. "Don't do that."

"Jade, you're saying the line that every man-."

"I want to talk about where we're going to live on Earth."

"You see, you can just say that. I'm perfectly comfortable with clearly defined conversations-. Wait. Do you mean… Soon-?"

She… Sort of tenses slightly, looking away from me. "No. No, I mean in three years. Unless the Reach collapses before that."

"Dox was trying to convince me to use the sun eaters…"

"Bir Tawil is fine as a superhero base-."

"'High-tech flop house', as Green Arrow would say. I agree; it's not really a home."

"Do you have a preference for where we live?"

"I feel like I should suggest Hub City, but no, not really. Ah… You?"

"I think Ripon makes the most sense. Most of my family lives there, and we know that the high school is good."

"Y-es..?"

She meets my eyes for a moment. "For when we have children."

"Oh! Yes, yes, I just thought-"

"Do you not want children?"

"-that would be a separate conversation. Ah. Yes? I mean, I don't.. not want children? Given how… Committed you are to your work, I wasn't sure how you'd feel about taking the time out…"

"I can do a desk job for a few years. Honestly, I could do most of what I do now from a desk."

"I'll-. We can… Take a look at what's on the market when we get back?"

"I doubt it will still be on the market in three y-." Her eyes widen! "SHIELD!"

Huh?

BOOMwooosh!

ScoobyDoo-one-two · 2026-05-10T07:24:54+0100

I see work has found them again.

mastermenthe · 2026-05-10T07:45:33+0100

how did Jade notice the incoming attack first before the sensor equipment that Orange Lantern has?

@Mr Zoat if Orange Lantern does not want to pay attention to his surroundings, will his sensor suite just decide to not work?

BR549 · 2026-05-10T07:58:34+0100

mastermenthe said:
if Orange Lantern does not want to pay attention to his surroundings, will his sensor suite just decide to not work?

He had literally just been told by Jade not to use his ring to scan for things, lest they make the already-jumpy (...flighty?) Thanagarian authorities even more so.

So he wasn't.

NightmareWarden · 2026-05-10T08:05:35+0100

Hmmm
We might see a lot of red text soon, because endangering OL's people is more provocative than endangering him alone.

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-05-10T08:33:53+0100

Mr Zoat said:
7th September 2013
22:46 GMT

"That's weird." Bleez looks around the bare rocky hillside we're standing on, clearly not seeing something she expected.

Jade and I are paying more attention to the airbase in the valley on the far side of the hills from Thanaldar for obvious reasons. If Thanagar is expecting an attack, combat air patrols would increase in frequency, or at the very least everyone would get recalled to active duty. On the other hand, if the navy was heading off to attack someone it should be business as usual amongst the self-defence force.

And if this is a regular exercise location, it isn't too suspicious if they're visiting it. Making it look like Bleez is showing them some of the sights while they wait...

"What?"

"At this time of day? There should be some other people around." She spreads her wings out slightly, feeling the wind. "There's good thermal updrafts coming from these rocks."

So the fact it's deserted is telling.

"Is that an assumption, or have you seen people using them in the past?"

"I can feel the thermals myself."

Yes, you'd expect beings with wings to be extra sensitive to airflow and currents.

"Is it an assumption that people here use them like that? City people don't necessarily have the same interests that you do."

"Yah, I've seen people flying up here before."

So it's not unusual for you to be here. Although jade and OL's presence is a little more curious to anyone watching them.

"What sort of people?"

"Huh?"

"If we know what demographic would normally be here and now isn't, that might tell us something about what's going on."

...It's the Thanagarian equivalent of a kiddie beach, OL. You'd expect it to be used by everyone.

"Ah… Everyone?"

Jade and I regard her sceptically.

See? Though I imagine there's a natural sort of segregation between rich and poor.

"What?"

"I remember how much space the flying slopes on your world give the people using them-."

Advantage of lower population and larger open spaces.

"That's because our thanagarian population is pretty low, and the natives can't fly! That's not how things normally are! It's like… Not the military so much, because they've got actual gymnasiums with weight-rigs and stuff. But undersiders and topsiders both come out here." She makes an 'I'm thinking' wing-jiggle. "You know… The total population of thanagarians… Probably isn't much bigger than the total population of humans. I mean, we build up rather than out like you do, but it's… Just the cities, and a couple of other places where we even live."

That's what happens when you have innate powers of flight. And reasonably advanced material technology to manage the heights.

Jade frowns as she takes that in. "What about the colonies?"

"Same deal. Havania's got, like… Fifty million thanagarians? And half of that's in our one actual city. And most of the others have about the same? Apart from Conrall, but they've got no native population so then had to have a totally different culture. The New Colonies are different, but they're new, so they only have a few hundred thousand thanagarians. I don't know what the exact total number of thanagarians there are is, but it's… I think it's about six billion thanagarians total?"

About the same as Earth, just more spread out. Like the Renegade is trying to do.

"Does that include Queen Hyathis's followers?"

She moues in distaste. "Unless they've been doing nothing but breeding? That's maybe fifty thousand. At most."

Huh. That's... Surprising.

"Oh? I thought the divide-."

"Yeah, yeah, the counter-c-. I mean, y'know, the putsch?"

"I don't mind what you call it."

Hardly any need to quibble over terminology out here.

"Right, well… Most people weren't exactly in love with Hyathis? And she took a lot of the ones who did with her. So when the… You know, took over, well… They killed most people who could have created problems for them. Except the ones who ran for it, but… Like, culturally? We're not good at that."

Not good at forgiveness? I can see that. Edit: Ah, a willingness to retreat? Also a trait not common in them...

Jade nods. "And after decades of indoctrination, people who were neutral aren't."

"And their kids aren't, either."

So what I'm hearing is that there was a lot of bodies after it was all over...

"So at this point the thanagarians who are pro-Hyathis are a tiny minority."

"I mean… I haven't checked, but, probably?"

And they'd not be on-planet if they were. Unless they have been very skilled at keeping those sympathies hidden.

"Is Thandalar under martial law?"

"Yeah? For, like, longer than I've been alive?"

But a soft sort of martial law, I suppose. Light curfews, with minimal enforcement, that kind of thing.

"I mean, was there some sort of 'don't leave the city' warning that I didn't notice."

"If there was, I didn't notice it either."

Although she probably has a little more freedom, given her associations.

Jade looks around more carefully. "Are there any cameras?"

"I doubt it. Important people would bring bodyguards or drones with them, if they wanted. But outside of underside, Thanagar's crime rate is pretty low."

Gee, how unexpected.

"So… Outside of the violent crime-ridden hellhole with almost no police presence… Crime's pretty low."

"Yes!"

And she says it like that's not anything unusual...

Jade thinks for a moment. "If we don't know when people stopped using the slopes… We can't tie it to anything. And I doubt that the Thanagarian government will let us take detailed scans of the area."

"I mean…" I raise my left fist.

He practically has detailed scans if he feels like it. Even just passive pings should reveal something.

She shakes her head. "We don't know what you're looking for, and their government is already concerned about you being here."

"Alright, so… Just sight-seeing?"

I'm sure there's some great vistas for holiday photos.

Her eyes drift away for a moment, before returning to my face.

"We need to talk-." I cringe. "Don't do that."

"Jade, you're saying the line that every man-."

Yeah, it's basically a signal that there's no 'safe' options ahead...

"I want to talk about where we're going to live on Earth."

"You see, you can just say that. I'm perfectly comfortable with clearly defined conversations-. Wait. Do you mean… Soon-?"

Boy, that's got his attention now.

She… Sort of tenses slightly, looking away from me. "No. No, I mean in three years. Unless the Reach collapses before that."

"Dox was trying to convince me to use the sun eaters…"

OL, No. No deploying star system-killing super-weapons just to get to marry your fiancee sooner.

"Bir Tawil is fine as a superhero base-."

"'High-tech flop house', as Green Arrow would say. I agree; it's not really a home."

...It's a staging ground. Basically just a forward operating base with comfort.

"Do you have a preference for where we live?"

"I feel like I should suggest Hub City, but no, not really. Ah… You?"

Guh, I can't imagine what their kid would grow up like, there. Even if OL manages to gentrify it, it's still Hub City.

"I think Ripon makes the most sense. Most of my family lives there, and we know that the high school is good."

"Y-es..?"

She meets my eyes for a moment. "For when we have children."

Who are going to have one heck of a complex, knowing just how powerful their dad is...

"Oh! Yes, yes, I just thought-"

"Do you not want children?"

"-that would be a separate conversation. Ah. Yes? I mean, I don't.. not want children? Given how… Committed you are to your work, I wasn't sure how you'd feel about taking the time out…"

Always so uncertain. I know he's being considerate of her preferences, but it does feel...

I don't know.

"I can do a desk job for a few years. Honestly, I could do most of what I do now from a desk."

"I'll-. We can… Take a look at what's on the market when we get back?"

Meanwhile, in the background, Bleez is trying to act invisible while they have this awkward personal chat with her right there...

"I doubt it will still be on the market in three y-." Her eyes widen! "SHIELD!"

Huh?

BOOMwooosh!

Oh, hell! Interrupted by... An explosion? Someone swooping past them? We'll see!

I think OL navigated that little minefield of a discussion fairly well. It helps that it got cut short by something big happening nearby. Meanwhile, the Thanagarian situation seems to be getting more and more suspicious. There must be something in the air people are picking up on and making them keep their heads down, perhaps?

Mr Zoat · 2026-05-10T09:00:29+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
Not good at forgiveness? I can see that.

Flying away from a fight.

Darko · 2026-05-10T10:58:01+0100

mastermenthe said:
how did Jade notice the incoming attack first before the sensor equipment that Orange Lantern has?

@Mr Zoat if Orange Lantern does not want to pay attention to his surroundings, will his sensor suite just decide to not work?

BR549 said:
He had literally just been told by Jade not to use his ring to scan for things, lest they make the already-jumpy (...flighty?) Thanagarian authorities even more so.

So he wasn't.

Plus if this is Hyathis then her weapons may have mystical protections on them, which Paul has difficulty scanning, but they wouldn't necessarily be invisible to the naked eye.

Duke Long · 2026-05-10T12:44:58+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"Yeah, yeah, the counter-c-. I mean, y'know, the putsch?"

"I don't mind what you call it."

"Right, well… Most people weren't exactly in love with Hyathis? And she took a lot of the ones who did with her. So when the… You know, took over, well… They killed most people who could have created problems for them. Except the ones who ran for it, but… Like, culturally? We're not good at that."

'they'?

Oh El not being pedantic? Maybe he's getting mindfucked again.

Mr Zoat said:
"I doubt it will still be on the market in three y-." Her eyes widen! "SHIELD!"

Huh?

BOOMwooosh!

Would be kinda funny if Jade actually just got blown up, right as she was getting some character development which made me more interested in her.

Somewhat relatedly, do we have foreshadowing for Jade maybe dying at some point, from the future visions in which she didn't feature? Or am I misremembering that?

Steelplaza · 2026-05-10T13:00:15+0100

I decided to go back and check on the last time OL met Hyathis to see where her headspace was.

Mr Zoat said:
"So… This isn't them ganging up on you because you'd pulled a little ahead, an alliance that will fall apart the moment that you're beaten back?"

"No. Not this time. This is their last hurrah before my new fleet puts itself in orbit around their worlds and does as it will. I will seed their biospheres and make prisons of their worlds, and then concern myself with them never again! And then…"

Giant eyes glow.

"Thanagar."

Okay yes, Hyathis said very directly that she's coming for Thanagar. Also she's a giant plant lady now.

Maybe OL can cut a deal for her to leave Havania and its mere 50 million thangarians alone? That's more realistic than it might sound, Hyathis might actually remember Bleez's father with fondness and be willing to cut some slack for his daughter.

Mr Zoat said:
She makes a small wing-shrug. "He was one of the people who got Hyathis to cure the Equalizing Plague, and after she got thrown out he negotiated the settlement we have now with the government of Thanagar. They put him in prison for a while for working with her, which was total guano."

Jankl · 2026-05-10T13:04:46+0100

Duke Long said:
'they'?

Oh El not being pedantic? Maybe he's getting mindfucked again.

Would be kinda funny if Jade actually just got blown up, right as she was getting some character development which made me more interested in her.

Somewhat relatedly, do we have foreshadowing for Jade maybe dying at some point, from the future visions in which she didn't feature? Or am I misremembering that?

Yeah I noticed the same. Future OL doesn't seem to mention Jade at all. Maybe she died of old age? Or maybe Mr.Zoat just hasn't decided yet?

Mr Zoat · 2026-05-10T14:33:22+0100

Duke Long said:
'they'?

No, she was thinking 'the high council'.

Steelplaza · 2026-05-10T16:30:14+0100

While I understand Hyathis is angry at getting booted off the Thanagarian throne and probably feels like it was a big betrayal, I'm not sure what she really hopes to accomplish with attacking them. If support for Hyathis is as low as Bleez believes (and Bleez is the heir to a planetary throne who only pretends not to pay attention to politics), then ruling Thanagar could come only by maintaining a constant root on their necks. That would be enforced using her own beloved plant people who probably will wonder why they gotta pay blood and treasure so Hyathis can rule over the bird people.

I guess she could do that "seed their biospheres and make prisons of their worlds, and then concern myself with them never again" thing she was going to do to her local rivals.

Seems like a great chance for one of OL's patented, "Okay but let's be sensible, what do you really want to happen here?" speeches.

PDV · 2026-05-10T16:55:07+0100

Steelplaza said:
Okay yes, Hyathis said very directly that she's coming for Thanagar. Also she's a giant plant lady now.

Maybe OL can cut a deal for her to leave Havania and its mere 50 million thangarians alone? That's more realistic than it might sound, Hyathis might actually remember Bleez's father with fondness and be willing to cut some slack for his daughter.

Mr Zoat said:
And you want to fix it?"

"I just want to fix my little bit of it. And don't even think about giving me a power ring. The government will never let me do any of it if I've got a power ring."

"Wouldn't dream of it."

Until the end of my holiday, anyway.

Well, that would certainly be a way to negotiate independence for Havania.

Mr Zoat · 2026-05-10T17:50:04+0100

Steelplaza said:
While I understand Hyathis is angry at getting booted off the Thanagarian throne and probably feels like it was a big betrayal, I'm not sure what she really hopes to accomplish with attacking them. If support for Hyathis is as low as Bleez believes (and Bleez is the heir to a planetary throne who only pretends not to pay attention to politics), then ruling Thanagar could come only by maintaining a constant root on their necks. That would be enforced using her own beloved plant people who probably will wonder why they gotta pay blood and treasure so Hyathis can rule over the bird people.

Thing is, Hyathis is really old. She's not going to consider a mere two generations to be that big a deal. If thanagarians can be made to hate her in that span of time, they can probably be made to love her in about as long. Especially if she doesn't actually change all that much about how their society works.

PDV said:
Well, that would certainly be a way to negotiate independence for Havania.

Havania couldn't really function independently. It's surrounded by the Thanagarian Empire, for one.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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