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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Mordru the lord of chaos spawned on Xeros because he was killed there, so Vaermina is wrong as per usual. The angel spawned as a human on earth because once again she was killed on earth, the first of the fallen spawned on earth because he was killed on earth, Klarion spawned on earth because he was killed on earth.

By simple logic Grayven-50 was killed on earths-50 orbit ergo he will spawn as a human being on earth... The "where" is a little trickier, the first spawned on Greece on a minor pagan temple that has connections to hell, the Angel Noriel spawned in the rural area of the US where a demon and a bunch of demon cultists had been carrying human sacrifices for a while (we don't know where klarion spawned). Thus there is a high chance Grayven is going to spawn on a location with at least a minor amount of demonic taint(fun if London).

Personally I want this episode to end with Renegade tracking down HumanGrayven to have a chat, and for humanGrayven to admid he fucked up just as Renegade said he would, then Renegade telling Grayven the "lie" of how he also lost his god powers and ended up as a human and how through perseverance and cunning he "came back".
 
Vaermina said:
Only mystical powers, and that matters not because they can easily get those powers back using a Fatherbox.
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Which I'm sure will be the easiest thing in the world. All he has to do is go up to one of the warring factions of Apokolips who are vying for power and demand a Fatherbox to restore his rightful place as heir to Darkseid. And I'm sure that faction will be overjoyed to do so and won't just murder him, either assuming he's a pretender or even if thinking he's real just kill him to permanently remove a rival power.

Or? He could steal one. From gods. While mortal. I'm sure that'll go swell.
 
There is... another possibility.

All past instances of someone being killed by the Sword have happened while they were actually on a planet. We've never seen what happens to someone who was killed in orbit.

I'd give it even odds that Grayven-50 might well respawn as a mortal... in orbit around Earth, at the same altitude as his ship was but not on the ship itself.

Which would pretty much resolve the problem inherently, I think.
 
Vaermina said:
Grayven ended up with it because he was Darkseid's actual biological son.

Renegade isn't.

Now, Zoat could fanon rewrite the Omega Effect to work differently, but it would be a rewrite.
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The Omega effect has been shown to to just do its own thing if it really wants to, as some people have said, it once choose Lex flipping Luthor as its next bearer, so, yeah, it chosing ReneGrayven would not only make sense, as it would be far easier than moving around the universe seeking a new host.

I would still prefer if it went to Luthor here as well though, more plotlines for earth fifty later on that way.
 
Akatsunami said:
The Omega effect has been shown to to just do its own thing if it really wants to, as some people have said, it once choose Lex flipping Luthor as its next bearer, so, yeah, it chosing ReneGrayven would not only make sense, as it would be far easier than moving around the universe seeking a new host.

I would still prefer if it went to Luthor here as well though, more plotlines for earth fifty later on that way.
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Luthor-50 is dead. He was elected POTUS, got up to some evil schemes, killed The Flash-50, and got murdered by Superman-50. Now it's not impossible that the Omega Effect could either resurrect him or puppet his corpse, but it just feels... unlikely.
 
rdfox said:
There is... another possibility.

All past instances of someone being killed by the Sword have happened while they were actually on a planet. We've never seen what happens to someone who was killed in orbit.

I'd give it even odds that Grayven-50 might well respawn as a mortal... in orbit around Earth, at the same altitude as his ship was but not on the ship itself.

Which would pretty much resolve the problem inherently, I think.
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Earths arcane "circuity" goes further than the orbit of the moon (as per the research statements made in Paragon), thus Grayven is going to spawn on earth, who knows where, but he will spawn there.
 
Bigking321 said:
So no upside down God speech for grayven?

Was that because granny died of her wounds and blood loss and grayven was directly killed by the sword and reincarnated?

Or would granny dying of a cut throat still count as a sword kill and the lack of upside down speech is a fluke on either granny's or grayvens parts?
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Might be that Granny lost in a way that reversed her godly nature, since there's a lot of concepts that start with "So Grows-", with the first coming to mind being 'as the twig is bent, so grows the tree', which would have been impacting her followers/victims but also would have been undermined by the actual application (Granny didn't actually bend Renegraven in his youth, he reacted in a much more measured way).

Or it's possible that's something specific to Lashina.
 
So, I thought I'd ask. What's going on with the .epub file(s)? The part 3 file is showing as having not been updated since last year and the part 1 and 2 files aren't showing as having been updated since then either. Did the person doing that just lose interest or not have the time anymore or something?
 
rdfox said:
I'd give it even odds that Grayven-50 might well respawn as a mortal... in orbit around Earth, at the same altitude as his ship was but not on the ship itself.

Which would pretty much resolve the problem inherently, I think.
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Well, unless he respawns as a mortal in orbit around Earth with an OL ring, since we know where that leads...
 
So I've finally caught up and since I don't care about Renegade the last thing that happened for me was the whole Vega thin and while that happened weeks ago for everyone else I'm just gonna vent a little

Blake is an asshole, he claims that he only did thing the way he did in order to grant the New Vega Alliance their founding myth but the first time we see him in that episode clearly shows that he possesses a desperate desire to be needed and wanted so the real reason he did it so that he could usurp OL as Vega's residen superhero and even if that isn't true it would've cost him absolutely nothing to contact OL to let him know what was happening and just saying "we don't need your help" or even just asking for two or three lanterns to run prisoner rescue

Also, I'm a little surprised that OL hasn't called up the sisters for insubordination and while I doubt that Paul is petty enough to sever contact with the New Vega Alliance I can definitely see him being far less friendly to them know than he was before both because they lied to and manipulated him making him run around trying to fix a problem that had been fixed months ago, in the process distracting him from doing stuff that could actually help, and because before he was of the mindset that Vega was his responsibility, now he's going to be thinking "you can clearly deal with this stuff by yourself and you're obviously not above manipulating me so if you want my help then I'm getting something out of it from you"
 
liger0 said:
So, I thought I'd ask. What's going on with the .epub file(s)? The part 3 file is showing as having not been updated since last year and the part 1 and 2 files aren't showing as having been updated since then either. Did the person doing that just lose interest or not have the time anymore or something?
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They may not have followed the thread to QQ.
 
Zig said:
Fun if it's the town Zoat was born in.
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Eastbourne? What would be the point of being corrupt in Eastbourne?
Akatsunami said:
The Omega effect has been shown to to just do its own thing if it really wants to, as some people have said, it once choose Lex flipping Luthor as its next bearer, so, yeah, it chosing ReneGrayven would not only make sense, as it would be far easier than moving around the universe seeking a new host.

I would still prefer if it went to Luthor here as well though, more plotlines for earth fifty later on that way.
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Zod, educate this fool.
TheMidnightRook said:
Luthor-50 is dead. He was elected POTUS, got up to some evil schemes, killed The Flash-50, and got murdered by Superman-50. Now it's not impossible that the Omega Effect could either resurrect him or puppet his corpse, but it just feels... unlikely.
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Technically he was never convicted of murder. At the moment he just killed him.
liger0 said:
So, I thought I'd ask. What's going on with the .epub file(s)? The part 3 file is showing as having not been updated since last year and the part 1 and 2 files aren't showing as having been updated since then either. Did the person doing that just lose interest or not have the time anymore or something?
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Probably something like that.
jonasquinn said:
Blake is an asshole, he claims that he only did thing the way he did in order to grant the New Vega Alliance their founding myth but the first time we see him in that episode clearly shows that he possesses a desperate desire to be needed and wanted so the real reason he did it so that he could usurp OL as Vega's residen superhero and even if that isn't true it would've cost him absolutely nothing to contact OL to let him know what was happening and just saying "we don't need your help" or even just asking for two or three lanterns to run prisoner rescue.
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The SI wasn't Vega's resident superhero. He hardly went back for six months.
Also, I'm a little surprised that OL hasn't called up the sisters for insubordination and while I doubt that Paul is petty enough to sever contact with the New Vega Alliance I can definitely see him being far less friendly to them know than he was before both because they lied to and manipulated him making him run around trying to fix a problem that had been fixed months ago, in the process distracting him from doing stuff that could actually help, and because before he was of the mindset that Vega was his responsibility, now he's going to be thinking "you can clearly deal with this stuff by yourself and you're obviously not above manipulating me so if you want my help then I'm getting something out of it from you"
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It isn't insubordination if you don't give them orders. The SI felt that Orange Lanterns he picked because he liked the sort of things they wanted would work better if left to their own devices. He's now reconsidering this policy.
 
Mr Zoat said:
The SI wasn't Vega's resident superhero. He hardly went back for six months.
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Fair enough but he's definitely the biggest cause of change in Vega in decades, if not centuries, so while Blake was a hero of legend for most modern Tamaraneans who ultimately failed OL is a modern day hero who saved them from slavery, avenged them against the Gordanians, overthrew the Citadel and saved their previous hero

Adam is pretty much living in OL's shadow, if he wants to fulfill his desire to be needed then he has to prove that he's just as good, if not better than, him which means not involving him in his operation against the Psions
Mr Zoat said:
It isn't insubordination if you don't give them orders. The SI felt that Orange Lanterns he picked because he liked the sort of things they wanted would work better if left to their own devices. He's now reconsidering this policy.
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I'd argue that not only partaking in a genocide against an extremely advanced enemy that could retaliate against your corps but also hiding from and misleading your superior to prevent him from finding out is at best insubordination and at worst going AWOL
 
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jonasquinn said:
... I don't care about Renegade ...
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Originally I hated Renegade (e.g., the Thangarian ship episode was just boring) and I started skipping those. However, based on recommendations from others I gave him another go and Renepaul has really grown as a character and characters around him have developed as well. Surprisingly to me I have come to care (almost) as much about Renepaul as OL. YMMV, but it might be worth your time to reread the Renegade chapters.

jonasquinn said:
Also, I'm a little surprised that OL hasn't called up the sisters for insubordination ... I can definitely see him being far less friendly to them know than he was before both because they lied to and manipulated him making him run around trying to fix a problem that had been fixed months ago ... now he's going to be thinking "you can clearly deal with this stuff by yourself and you're obviously not above manipulating me so if you want my help then I'm getting something out of it from you"
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Insubordination implies that the 'superior' need to be seen to be in control. OL is enlightened so his need for control (and he is a bit of a control freak) will be over needs strong Orange Lanterns who are following their own desires, sane and effective. However, I agree that he'll feel they can deal with their own stuff now and may ask more from them than he used to.

Also, I largely agree with your view of Blake. He could have and should have handled this differently.
 
Vaermina said:
Wrong Klarion.
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Wrong.

Here is where Teekl is declared to be from Witch World.

Here is where the witch hunter who came to Earth was declared to be from Witch World.

So Klarion's familiar and the witch hunters, who include his very own sister, come from Witch World.

Which means Klarion is from Witch World.
 
moralrelativity said:
Insubordination implies that the 'superior' need to be seen to be in control. OL is enlightened so his need for control (and he is a bit of a control freak) will be over needs strong Orange Lanterns who are following their own desires, sane and effective. However, I agree that he'll feel they can deal with their own stuff now and may ask more from them than he used to.

Also, I largely agree with your view of Blake. He could have and should have handled this differently.
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Like I said in my other post, I'd argue that going out of your way to help commit genocide against a third party that your corps has no official stance against without even informing the corps of such a plan, and in fact going out of your way to hide it from them until it was too late, is at best insubordination and at worst counts as going AWOL

It isn't a perfect comparison but imagine if two marines overseas decided to work alongside a local militia to exterminate a group that the US has no official relations with and went out of their way to hide that from a visiting general because they thought he might stop them
BR549 said:
As mentioned above, you're skipping what is currently arguably the better side of the story.
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moralrelativity said:
Originally I hated Renegade (e.g., the Thangarian ship episode was just boring) and I started skipping those. However, based on recommendations from others I gave him another go and Renepaul has really grown as a character and characters around him have developed as well. Surprisingly to me I have come to care (almost) as much about Renepaul as OL. YMMV, but it might be worth your time to reread the Renegade chapters.
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Fair enough, though I don't know if I can be bothered reading basically the whole story again and trying to keep all the different characters straight when I already struggle with the ones just in paragons timeline
 
Stsword said:
Wrong.

Here is where Teekl is declared to be from Witch World.

Here is where the witch hunter who came to Earth was declared to be from Witch World.

So Klarion's familiar and the witch hunters, who include his very own sister, come from Witch World.

Which means Klarion is from Witch World.
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Did you know that mental patients can have seriously aggressive reactions when their delusions are shattered?

Just a helpful tidbit
 
liger0 said:
So, I thought I'd ask. What's going on with the .epub file(s)? The part 3 file is showing as having not been updated since last year and the part 1 and 2 files aren't showing as having been updated since then either. Did the person doing that just lose interest or not have the time anymore or something?
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PDV said:
They may not have followed the thread to QQ.
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Mr Zoat said:
Probably something like that.
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No, I am here. But I started a new job last year and I have much less time.:oops:

On top of that since Mr Zoat came to QQ I have to redo everything. Including the first 2 seasons:(

Every time I think to do the epub, I remember that and... well... I get discouraged:(:(
 
Maxx Crowley said:
Because Vaermina said it, and thus it must be true, because Vaermina said it. Shaped like itself no?

As it stands, I'm actually surprised at how much of his ass Rene-Paul got kicked.

Mostly, it makes me wonder, who picked up the Sword of the Fallen in Hell after the Pigeon of War completely murderized OL's ass.
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I believe the Pigeon of war had it on him when OL was walking through heaven
 
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