I never even thought of that. That may very well be an evil Uncle Sam, or whatever you can call him. Truggs knows the H-Dial because in the comics he stole it in his time period. Also, Savage is still around. The Time Trapper version of him ceased to exist after he was replaced by Time Trapper Paul.
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
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- self insert young justice
Future Tense (part 7)
Mr Zoat
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13th September 2011
08:52 GMT -5
I want to ask 'Is this really necessary?', but given that I ended up pissing blood after last time I spoke during this part I think I'll hold my tongue.
And anyway, I know that it's not. Manacled wrist and ankles and with a bag over my head, all I can do is shuffle along as directed. To be fair, the soldiers who escort me are usually 'reasonable' about that part; any defiance is met with a beating, but they don't hit you for failing to comply faster than you physically can.
This time.
"Halt."
I stop. It's been a while since GCSE German, but I think that's what he wants.
No part of my body is exposed, but the slight change in air pressure pushes the material of the bag slightly and I feel that. A door opening.
A slight tap to the back and I start moving again, the echo… A small room. As expected, I'm led forwards, turned and then sat down. There's a clicking, chinking noise as my ankle manacles are attached to the floor, then the manacles holding my forearms together are released so that my arms can be attached to the chair's arm rests.
A cheeky 'danke schoen' at this point is not wise.
"Danke. Wegtreten."
I recognise that voice. One more day with all of my remaining teeth intact. Wonderful. I hear the guards who escorted me march out. The doors here are muffled so I don't hear it close, but I do hear the sound of footsteps cut off.
And then the bag is pulled free, and joy of joys the light isn't blinding.
"Prisoner."
Strange that a man who has spent so much time in America still has such a pronounced accent.
"Overman. How may I be of service?"
Because if vanishing from my world wasn't enough, I appeared on one where the Nazis won the Second World War. And they are rather thin skinned about being called 'Nazis'.
Overman himself is actually not that bad. The Second World War was effectively over while he was still a teenager, so I can hardly blame him for how things turned out.
I didn't actually notice that there were literally no black people around until Doll Man pointed it out to me.
"I have thought about what you said."
I just about manage to shrug. I think these seats were made for people a great deal stronger than me, and I can't get a lot of motion out of my shoulders.
"Could you be more specific? I have said a great many things in chairs like this."
"The state of the world. Your thoughts on how mankind naturally divides itself in whatever way seems logical, and then fights amongst itself."
"Absent a unifying ideology, yes. I doubt that the first generation fascists would recognise what your society is now, even if they weren't displeased with it."
"An enemy outside and an enemy inside."
"People are easier to convince to take radical action when they feel threatened. If you want to arrest your political opponents, it's easier if people believe that there are people living around them working to destroy the things they value. Even if it's only a simpleton trying to burn down a public building."
He looks at me impassively.
"I thought that you had learned to be more careful with your words. If I was Leatherwing, you would have lost another tooth."
"If you were Leatherwing, I wouldn't be bothering. You want something. From me."
"Even so…"
"Leatherwing didn't hit me because I was incautious. He hit me because I couldn't tell him what he wanted to know. Everything else was a rationalisation." I shake my head. "I don't-."
"I am ordering your release."
I blink.
"What?"
"You are right. You do not know anything. You broke a few minor laws that you did not know existed, and which are only there to make people afraid to step out of line. If it were not for your ring, you would not be here now."
"I assume that I'm not getting it back."
"No. But you were right when you warned us about its negative mental effects. That was what finally convinced Leatherwing to stop opposing your release."
"Ah, thank you. I rather assumed that he'd just have me shot."
Overman nods. "He eased off when I made it clear that I valued your input. My… Speech to the Reichsmen has made several people in the upper levels of the Party uncomfortable. They are making sure not to press me over minor matters."
"May I ask why I'm chained up? Are you afraid that I'll break my knuckles on your face?"
"I am concerned that someone might use the fact that you are unbound as an excuse to shoot you. The paperwork is still being processed. Once it is complete, you will be a citizen of the Kingdom of Britain. Until then, you are a prisoner."
I nod. "Do you..? Want to tell me what the speech was?"
"It concerned… Some thoughts I had concerning the Reich. The events of the post-war period."
"The genocide."
"Genos..? Ah." He nods. "From the Greek. 'Tribe-killing'."
"And… What did you say about it?"
"I said that I bitterly regretted it."
I frown. "I… Didn't think that you… Personally…"
He shakes his head.
"They killed a great many people. 'Enemies of the state', I was told. I put it from my mind, as you said. Other people were moved into ghettos. Most of the killing happened when I was away from the Earth. Even I cannot hear through vacuum."
I nod. "And what do you want to do about it?"
"I want to free a talkative Englischer who knows what modern society is when it is not formed by the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei."
"Right, but… Do you want to talk about reform to your civilisation, or..? Something more extreme?"
He looks me directly in the eyes-. No, higher. Forehead? Is he planning on using heat vision on me, or is he looking at the patterns of activity in my brain?
"What do you mean by that?"
"I remember hearing in a history documentary about a letter Hitler wrote to a party official who was trying to get promoted to head of his local party office. Hitler told him that if he was certain that he had majority support, he should 'just take over'. Social Darwinism was a big thing in the Party back then. You're the strongest man on the planet, and you're popular with every generation since the war."
"Not with everyone."
"Uncle Sam is insane. Speaking from personal experience, there."
"They are told that the 'cleansing' was a harsh necessity that their grandparents undertook for their benefit. They do not see it as I do."
Like Leatherwing, a man whose grandfather once said that if it was known that he compared Hitler to an ape, 'no chimpanzee would ever speak to me again'. But what am I supposed to say to Overman about it?
"So are we looking for peaceful reform..? Or are we looking for a time machine?"
08:52 GMT -5
I want to ask 'Is this really necessary?', but given that I ended up pissing blood after last time I spoke during this part I think I'll hold my tongue.
And anyway, I know that it's not. Manacled wrist and ankles and with a bag over my head, all I can do is shuffle along as directed. To be fair, the soldiers who escort me are usually 'reasonable' about that part; any defiance is met with a beating, but they don't hit you for failing to comply faster than you physically can.
This time.
"Halt."
I stop. It's been a while since GCSE German, but I think that's what he wants.
No part of my body is exposed, but the slight change in air pressure pushes the material of the bag slightly and I feel that. A door opening.
A slight tap to the back and I start moving again, the echo… A small room. As expected, I'm led forwards, turned and then sat down. There's a clicking, chinking noise as my ankle manacles are attached to the floor, then the manacles holding my forearms together are released so that my arms can be attached to the chair's arm rests.
A cheeky 'danke schoen' at this point is not wise.
"Danke. Wegtreten."
I recognise that voice. One more day with all of my remaining teeth intact. Wonderful. I hear the guards who escorted me march out. The doors here are muffled so I don't hear it close, but I do hear the sound of footsteps cut off.
And then the bag is pulled free, and joy of joys the light isn't blinding.
"Prisoner."
Strange that a man who has spent so much time in America still has such a pronounced accent.
"Overman. How may I be of service?"
Because if vanishing from my world wasn't enough, I appeared on one where the Nazis won the Second World War. And they are rather thin skinned about being called 'Nazis'.
Overman himself is actually not that bad. The Second World War was effectively over while he was still a teenager, so I can hardly blame him for how things turned out.
I didn't actually notice that there were literally no black people around until Doll Man pointed it out to me.
"I have thought about what you said."
I just about manage to shrug. I think these seats were made for people a great deal stronger than me, and I can't get a lot of motion out of my shoulders.
"Could you be more specific? I have said a great many things in chairs like this."
"The state of the world. Your thoughts on how mankind naturally divides itself in whatever way seems logical, and then fights amongst itself."
"Absent a unifying ideology, yes. I doubt that the first generation fascists would recognise what your society is now, even if they weren't displeased with it."
"An enemy outside and an enemy inside."
"People are easier to convince to take radical action when they feel threatened. If you want to arrest your political opponents, it's easier if people believe that there are people living around them working to destroy the things they value. Even if it's only a simpleton trying to burn down a public building."
He looks at me impassively.
"I thought that you had learned to be more careful with your words. If I was Leatherwing, you would have lost another tooth."
"If you were Leatherwing, I wouldn't be bothering. You want something. From me."
"Even so…"
"Leatherwing didn't hit me because I was incautious. He hit me because I couldn't tell him what he wanted to know. Everything else was a rationalisation." I shake my head. "I don't-."
"I am ordering your release."
I blink.
"What?"
"You are right. You do not know anything. You broke a few minor laws that you did not know existed, and which are only there to make people afraid to step out of line. If it were not for your ring, you would not be here now."
"I assume that I'm not getting it back."
"No. But you were right when you warned us about its negative mental effects. That was what finally convinced Leatherwing to stop opposing your release."
"Ah, thank you. I rather assumed that he'd just have me shot."
Overman nods. "He eased off when I made it clear that I valued your input. My… Speech to the Reichsmen has made several people in the upper levels of the Party uncomfortable. They are making sure not to press me over minor matters."
"May I ask why I'm chained up? Are you afraid that I'll break my knuckles on your face?"
"I am concerned that someone might use the fact that you are unbound as an excuse to shoot you. The paperwork is still being processed. Once it is complete, you will be a citizen of the Kingdom of Britain. Until then, you are a prisoner."
I nod. "Do you..? Want to tell me what the speech was?"
"It concerned… Some thoughts I had concerning the Reich. The events of the post-war period."
"The genocide."
"Genos..? Ah." He nods. "From the Greek. 'Tribe-killing'."
"And… What did you say about it?"
"I said that I bitterly regretted it."
I frown. "I… Didn't think that you… Personally…"
He shakes his head.
"They killed a great many people. 'Enemies of the state', I was told. I put it from my mind, as you said. Other people were moved into ghettos. Most of the killing happened when I was away from the Earth. Even I cannot hear through vacuum."
I nod. "And what do you want to do about it?"
"I want to free a talkative Englischer who knows what modern society is when it is not formed by the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei."
"Right, but… Do you want to talk about reform to your civilisation, or..? Something more extreme?"
He looks me directly in the eyes-. No, higher. Forehead? Is he planning on using heat vision on me, or is he looking at the patterns of activity in my brain?
"What do you mean by that?"
"I remember hearing in a history documentary about a letter Hitler wrote to a party official who was trying to get promoted to head of his local party office. Hitler told him that if he was certain that he had majority support, he should 'just take over'. Social Darwinism was a big thing in the Party back then. You're the strongest man on the planet, and you're popular with every generation since the war."
"Not with everyone."
"Uncle Sam is insane. Speaking from personal experience, there."
"They are told that the 'cleansing' was a harsh necessity that their grandparents undertook for their benefit. They do not see it as I do."
Like Leatherwing, a man whose grandfather once said that if it was known that he compared Hitler to an ape, 'no chimpanzee would ever speak to me again'. But what am I supposed to say to Overman about it?
"So are we looking for peaceful reform..? Or are we looking for a time machine?"
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Are we getting Overman really soon? Is Nazi Earth the reason for all the Supergirls? Also, I think you once said that if a version of you showed up on that Earth that you wouldn't last long. Maybe I'm misremembering.
Someguy Somewhere
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Well....Overgirl has someone to look into when she gets home.
I think we're in Nazi World.
Yep, Nazi World.
Not too surprising, seeing as it's basically the European version of calling someone a redneck.
'War was'
Overman, this is a Paul.
They are not a breed that is known for their careful words.
'Leatherwing'
Which I'm guessing answers to Germany.
'Sam is'
And not too surprising if the Nazis are getting more powerful, he might actually stop existing.
Don't forget a not so peaceful reform.
And it looks like we'll be getting more time travel shenanigans.
And maybe Angelika will reunite with her adoptive father.
Has this Paul worked with the resistance here, since he mentioned Doll Man and Uncle Sam and seemed to know them?
And should the title for this chapter be Furure Tense Part 7?
Usually when we get an alternate Paul the title for the chapter is different.
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moralrelativity
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though -> thought
No I think you're remembering correctly.
I think it was mentioned that if a Paul showed up there then he'd be killed.
FeepingCreature
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I love how OL comes across as like the negative-image version of Hannibal Lecter in this scene.
Corrupting fine young fascists into moral qualms and change for good through his words alone.
Corrupting fine young fascists into moral qualms and change for good through his words alone.
DrThoth
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Did this iteration of Paul also get sucked into the tuning fork by Krona? Or has that not happened yet at this point in time? I don't pay a lot of attention to the timestamps anymore since I forget the timeline of things too easily.
Very very unlikely as this one no longer has a Power Ring.
That said I'd like to see a version of OL that landed on the New Frontier Earth.
I don't think having a ring is a necessity for getting grabbed by Krona.
Clayface was kidnapped and he didn't have a ring.
Plus this Paul did have a ring, it was just taken from him.
Though it's possible that he didn't get abducted, since he didn't think or mention Angelika, since Krona already had enough or he was abducted but didn't see Angelika before he went back.
Someguy Somewhere
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Not ALL the Paul Duplicates got tuning forked....like the fallout version for example. He got enough to get the job done, but considering the infinite multiverse and the multiple continuities one could end up in, who knows what rocks Paul found himself under.
..... Heh. Upgraded ring with updated protocols and training smuggled to new Paul.
Handlewithcare
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Don't they have kryptonite? Overman would hardly be the first uncomfortable Nazi the party got rid off. Might be a bit more careful there.
If Overman ends up on Para-Paul's world it would get a theme going.
"Welcome to Cakeman's Nazi rehabilitation and daycare!"
If Overman ends up on Para-Paul's world it would get a theme going.
"Welcome to Cakeman's Nazi rehabilitation and daycare!"
This is a little interesting.
I was really interested in what the situation with all the Supergirls and assassin was, and would otherwise be really enthusiastic about hearing about the New Reichsmen, but the shock of the switch makes it a little harder to get into this.
And now I'm wondering whether this is being brought up now because Overgirl is likely to come back to her dimension at the end of the current arc.
Regarding the possibility of reform: At some point it needs to be remembered that Overman is the most durable and most popular individual in the entire Reich, if he can't stand up for what he thinks is right and pursue reform then no one else is likely to have a chance. Or put another way, he has the best chance out of anyone.
I could see current Paul letting go of his ring in order to pursue a political objective he was sure he could achieve, but which required that he appear in someone else's power as part of the process. But I don't think early Paul would, more likely Overman used superspeed to get it off his finger at some point during the encounter.
One case where acting like a conventional superhero and fighting the Reichmen's Green Lantern to try to steal his lantern may actually have played out better for him than trying to seek a negotiated resolution did. Depending on how well-prepared he was before doing so.
I was really interested in what the situation with all the Supergirls and assassin was, and would otherwise be really enthusiastic about hearing about the New Reichsmen, but the shock of the switch makes it a little harder to get into this.
And now I'm wondering whether this is being brought up now because Overgirl is likely to come back to her dimension at the end of the current arc.
Regarding the possibility of reform: At some point it needs to be remembered that Overman is the most durable and most popular individual in the entire Reich, if he can't stand up for what he thinks is right and pursue reform then no one else is likely to have a chance. Or put another way, he has the best chance out of anyone.
I strongly suspect that Paul showed up at a fight and started trying to talk to both sides. Or showed up at a freedom fighter meeting shortly before a Reichsman raid, or tried to talk to Overman right before a Freedom Fighter attack. And thus got the chance to talk to both sides in a way that seemed impactful.
I could see current Paul letting go of his ring in order to pursue a political objective he was sure he could achieve, but which required that he appear in someone else's power as part of the process. But I don't think early Paul would, more likely Overman used superspeed to get it off his finger at some point during the encounter.
One case where acting like a conventional superhero and fighting the Reichmen's Green Lantern to try to steal his lantern may actually have played out better for him than trying to seek a negotiated resolution did. Depending on how well-prepared he was before doing so.
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ForeverShogo
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With the way fiction likes to treat a victorious Nazi Germany, especially the stories where they conquer the entire world with super tech, I'm surprised there's a Britain for him to be a citizen of.
Though I guess with the way time travel was changed, even if this is going down the time travel route then it's only one single version of this Nazi Earth being undone and there's however many iterations where time travel is shot down and peaceful reform was chosen. Or that Paul actually was executed.
Or I guess there are any number of Nazi Earths where Overman decided "this is fine" and didn't feel the need to change anything.
Though I guess with the way time travel was changed, even if this is going down the time travel route then it's only one single version of this Nazi Earth being undone and there's however many iterations where time travel is shot down and peaceful reform was chosen. Or that Paul actually was executed.
Or I guess there are any number of Nazi Earths where Overman decided "this is fine" and didn't feel the need to change anything.
There was another version of a Nazi Superman.
He was also blonde and I don't think he ever regretted what the Nazis did.
Chojin Patriarch
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Whoa, there's a mood whiplash. Evidently this Paul, and I assume it is a displaced Paul who turned up with a Ring, hasn't had the best time of matters. Still, good to see his captors have some measure of reasonable response.
Earth-10, then. So this is Overgirl's native universe, and its' Paul. Wonder what colour this one had?
Boy, these guys are taking no small amount of caution. It's unlikely Paul got any measure of personal power-ups before this, so... They do this for everyone, brute or not.
No doubt, "Thank you, dismissed." From context. Presumably this is whoever he's going to be talking to.
So, not a forceful interrogation. Evidently they've learned to balance the stick with the carrot.
Well, he did grow up in Germany. Is that so strange? People tend to keep their accents even after long times amongst other languages. Though I doubt Overman has spoken much of anything but German in years anyway.
That must have been one hell of a rude awakening, even by displaced Paul standards.
Ah, so he's been working with the Freedom Fighters. Hence the war criminal treatment. Wonder how he kept his ring working, if he did at all? I doubt Alan Scott's Ring and Lantern would be in the wild any more (pretty sure that's what one of the New Reichsmen is using?)
Yeah, I can't imagine Hugo Danner not having some part in the resistance against Nazi expansion, even if he was based in Brazil at that point... And super-strength tends to be a dime-a-dozen anyway.
Because Humanity always instinctively looks for an Other? Something to band against to protect the Tribe? We over-evolved apes are kind of persistent that way.
And if they had none, they'd probably have to manufacture it...
Yep. tribalism at its worst. And I can't see that idea being popular with most of Overman's compatriots.
Well, good to see he's as crafty as any other Paul.
Leatherwing being the Batman counterpart? Yeah, I can see him being less than stable when confronted with... Contradictions to his ideals?
Fascinating. [/Spock] I wonder, does he even care how popular a decision that will be with his allies?
Not that they could use it. But unless you were willing to toe the party line, I doubt it would be considered acceptable.
Lucky for you, Paul. Presumably it was an Orange Ring, then. Interesting timing. Presumably Overgirl has already disappeared, or she would have found OL familiar...
Where does the 800-pound Gorilla sleep? Anywhere he wants to. Yeah. I don't see his people wanting to upset him... Until they can find some manner of counter to him...
Yes, do tell. Is there a possible revolution building in Overman's heart?
Since Greek would likely be a forgotten language after what, sixty years of German Rule? Seventy? Only the oldest people would still speak it, and they'd likely avoid doing so out of fear.
Not news, as Overgirl noted as much when she first got here, that he'd confided in her. But it's interesting to hear him say it himself.
And other supersenses aren't so precise unless you're much closer.
Heh. Is Britain under the rule of a Big Brother-like party right now, then? Albeit without the constant state of war and clever manipulations based off that.
I would not be surprised if he could manage it. He's much closer to the Silver Age peaks than Superman-16 is.
Like I said: 800-pound Gorilla. If your Fuhrer (or his highest lieutenant, back in the day?) can pull you apart like a crumbly cake, would you argue?
Not least because he's probably trying to reconcile the pre-conquest character of America with the modern soul of Amerika trying to worm its way into his 'national embodiment' head... And has been for seventy-odd years.
No, no, no. Never try to kill Hitler before 1945! It never works out well for any traveller!
Okay, this was an interesting diversion? And apparently part of the core plot of the episode, rather than yet another Alternate. Which only raises more questions. How will this tie into the gathering of Supergirls? Will other universes be barging into Earth-16 again? Will Overman finally come looking for his little girl? I'm sure we'll find out soon enough...
Doccer
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Like Darko said. I just want to point out that that particular Paul did have a ring though we don't know if he had the ring on him at the time when Clayface was kidnapped the set Clayface looking like it was enough to get kidnapped instead of Paul.
ForeverShogo
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I've always thought it was kind of interesting that Overman doesn't see it the way most people in that world do despite the fact he would have been raised from infancy by the Nazis. Just from how hard they went in on indoctrinating their youth.
Though I could also swear he regretted the genocide stuff but was fine with the rest. Mostly because they exploited Kryptonian tech to make living standards so good that not even the Nazis could fuck it up.
Though I could also swear he regretted the genocide stuff but was fine with the rest. Mostly because they exploited Kryptonian tech to make living standards so good that not even the Nazis could fuck it up.
Ostentatiousnessness
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Nazis mistreating prisoners? Le gasp!
I think Overgirl mentioned that he was killed using poison gas.
And fascism kinda needs The Other in order to function.
Like they did in WWII, or like the government from 1984 did.
Not necessarily.
We know Overman isn't a fan of what happened, but the others may be.
In the Brain's bed.
Don't remember if the Nazis tried to get rid of the Greek language, but even if they didn't it's not likely the average person outside of Greece would speak it.
Unless Zoat nerfed him.
Though he is 30 years old than Superman 16 so he may be more powerful or knows more tricks.
Yeah I remember that in the comics when the Civil War happened he was split into two.
Or maybe he's just getting desperate.
It worked out for Mike Tyson when he killed Hitler.
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Doccer
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Mr Zoat
Does this guy exist in your Marvel\X-man Paul(s)?
https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdYqhL5L/
And if so how does he affect the Ring? And does Paul remember him existing? If only due to previous meta-knowledge?
How does FMN take to somebody knowing he exists?
Does this guy exist in your Marvel\X-man Paul(s)?
https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdYqhL5L/
And if so how does he affect the Ring? And does Paul remember him existing? If only due to previous meta-knowledge?
How does FMN take to somebody knowing he exists?
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
No. Germany has a 'first among equals' position amongst the world powers, but it was never practical for Germany to occupy the whole of the world.
No, it's more 'He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster'.
Worked with? No.
Yes, because it's part of the same story rather than me going off on a tangent like normal.
Thank you, corrected.
How would anyone know?
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It means even chimpanzees would be insulted if you say Hitler is like one.
Prince Charon
Just zis guy, you know?
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Thank you.
I've heard and read 'insensible' before, but always from British shows, characters, or writers, IIRC, not Americans.
Stsword
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Seems like Zoat is borrowing from Multiversity, in which the Freedom Fighters are just flat out terrorists against the Nazi regime.
That iteration of the freedom Fighters is made up of survivors of the various types of people the Nazis threw into death camps.
That iteration of the freedom Fighters is made up of survivors of the various types of people the Nazis threw into death camps.