Dungeon Delver Quest (Original Fantasy... again)

[Bre Karn]

Oh come on it's pretty obvious his ancestor had a massive case of chuunibiyou.

 

[Sirrocco]

Oh come on it's pretty obvious his ancestor had a massive case of chuunibiyou.

Click to shrink...

...and managed to parley that into conquering a tower and building a kingdom so that he could have an appropriate number of followers to agree with him.

 

[mrttao]

because ultimately a whole lot of people's goal is to actually get to the top not just farm skellies for shards forever, and having to fight through less endless hordes is conducive to penetrating deeper into the tower.

anything else is a bonus.

Click to shrink...

I figured that to stand a chance of reaching the top you need to level up a lot. and once you have gotten to the point where regular deucite is useless to you because everything that you had that uses it is maxed out, then you are strong enough that the skeletons don't even slow you down.

 

[Bre Karn]

...and managed to parley that into conquering a tower and building a kingdom so that he could have an appropriate number of followers to agree with him.

Click to shrink...

Maybe HE was the real Gary Stu

 

[Sirrocco]

The interesting thing is that there are bound to be a lot of people here for whom being the person to take the top *isn't* going to be their main goal. After all, we have a lot of adventurers here, and only on'es going to make it. Probably, the one that makes it is going to be one of the ones who takes more risks than they have to, and lives to thrive off of it (challenging level boss early and such). A lot of those people are going to die. On the other hand, the folks who aren't quite so intense? You may not get a wish in the end, but just being a contributing member can be a *serious* boost to your ability to thrive in your chosen profession, and if you're not racing to be the best, you can afford to do things at a more manageable rate (at least until the leading edge gets out far enough in front of you that the lowest-level available monsters start being a serious risk). Of the characters we have listed thus far...

Well, obviously, if I get it wrong on any of them, let me know, but this is what I see.

- Ansom is going to be out in front on the bleeding edge because that's where the *life* is. Ironically, she might almost prefer to die in the tower. If she lives long enough that the tower falls before she dies, then whether or not she was the one to do it, she's going to be powerful enough that there might not be all that many other things out there that can threaten her... especially since she won't get another tower to play with. Now, a wish could fix that for her in any of a variety of ways, but I get something of that viking "die gloriously in battle, go to Valhalla" vibe from her. In the anime, she dies in the last chapter, int he build-up to the final confrontation. She teams up with our group of heroes for the final push, has conversations in which she finishes expounding on her philosophy of life (and possibly how it's changed) and then dies gloriously, charging into the face of impossible odds and doing far more damage than she had any right to or something.

- Murdan needs enough power to rebuild his family's position. A wish would be *really handy* for that - though just having as much power as an endgame character might be enough, especially if he had some endgame friends (especially if one of them got the wish)

- Lona is... basically in a very similar position to Murdan. A wish would solve all her problems quite thoroughly, but if she had to make do with merely having tremendous arcane might, she could probably manage on that - especially if her guard captain stays loyal and doesn't die. At least even odds that she winds up married to him. Nobles know about marrying for the good of the family, and "secure the loyalty of another powerful adventurer" is totally the sort of "good for the family" that they're willing to marry for (and the compatibility benefits of shared experience and so forth certainly don't hurt).

- Linnea has no particular reason to need a wish. I see her meandering along, learning and gaining power until the tower progresses past what she's safe with, and then settling down to some sort of shopkeeper role - in this case fueled by being an at least mid-ranked druid. (there's bound to be something useful she can do based on that) If the clearers falter and the tower recovers back to a level that she can handle, she might head back in or might not.

- Yatsuruugi doesn't particularly need a wish. She'll just be in the vanguard because she wants to be in the vanguard. She's kind of like Ansom that way, except that she'll be able to handle leaving the tower much more gracefully. I could totally see her watch the tower boss fall, nod, check off "wander to gain experience" in her bucket list, and return home to being the town badass (or at least one of the town badasses). On the flip side, if she ever falls far enough behind that she can't keep up anymore... well, honestly, I kind of see her doing basically the same thing - possibly with a bit of regret that she didn't get further, but hey - objective still achieved.

- Gul wants to have fun, learn how to be at least as good of a wizard as he pretends to be, and get shiny stuff. None fo that requires even getting halfway up the tower.

- Du wants to get powerful enough to make people acknowledge that his/her magic type has real value, and to be respected for what he/she can do. no need for a wish here. Will probably settle into a shopkeeper role pretty readily, and hone his/her skills that way. By the time the tower falls, he/she should be good enough to present a fairly convincing argument as to the value of such skills.

- Shadow... has problems, and for her, the Tower is just made of solutions. Just getting to the tower in the first place has been a serious step in the right direction. She'll probably be kind of obsessively grinding on the trash mobs, usign defensive tactics, but isn't going to challenge anything she doesn't know she can take until it starts being necessary to progress. Right now, the Wish isn't really on her radar one way or the other. She's trying to figure out how to survive the month. On the other hand, it's quite clear to her that the more she can improve, and the faster, the better off she'll be overall. Shadow specifically *doesn't* destroy the skeleton-spawners, and kind of wishes that other people wouldn't either.

/****/

So, of this group, we have a few who are actively gunning for the wish, but essentially all of them (except Ansom) could "just" walk out of here as relatively high-level characters and largely achieve their overall goals. I suspect that this is generally true of the people here. The wish is somethign to shoot for and dream of, but it's not a "wish or nothing" scenario.

Also, random question (probably for yrsillar).... Does Murdan have a heal power anywhere in his set of abilities?

 

[Arkeus]

So, of this group, we have a few who are actively gunning for the wish, but essentially all of them (except Ansom) could "just" walk out of here as relatively high-level characters and largely achieve their overall goals. I suspect that this is generally true of the people here. The wish is somethign to shoot for and dream of, but it's not a "wish or nothing" scenario.

Click to shrink...

I am basically thinking that IF the only reliable way to boost your ability past a certain point is deucite in this verse, you basically rank the power of people according to how many floorss (possibly how many '5 floors') they could manage to get in a Tower.

So basically, anyone "who could get tothe 50th floor" would be considered more or less legendary, etc. So, huh, I think that unless the Wish is really, really ridiculous (AKA create a land where none was, etc) the journey actually provides more benefits than the wish for almost all the clearers.

 

[yrsillar]

Murdan doesn't have any heals yet, no.

As for relative ability... I'll put it this way. C rank in swords is roughly equivalent to the crazy old martial arts master who spends his entire life utterly mastering swordplay. C rank in a magic skill is basically what most wizards could hope to achieve in a human lifetime. Progressing past C starts putting you magnitudes beyond 'mundane' skill. Which is why the folks who clear towers are basically demigods in comparison.

Like, to explore the culture I'm building for Oni in my head a little bit... the First, the guy who cleared the tower on their islands, he wasn't just the first one to unite them or anything. He was literally the first Oni, and the Four Devas that all the clans trace their ancestry back to were his children. There are signs of places where he literally physically reshaped the landscape with nothing but pure physical might hercules style, as well as stories like how he destroyed an invading foreigner fleet by punching the ocean and generating a tidal wave, even if it gets dismissed as legends today.

Endgame heroes be fuckin broke yo.

And yes, the small flood of near physical gods leaving the area after a tower falls almost always does lead to periods of instability and revolution as the lines on the map get re-drawn. Which is why a lot of savvy kingdoms have tournaments selecting their best and most loyal knights/wizards what have you to come to the tower and try to at least get super stronk.

 

[Sirrocco]

so... question. Reading the spoiler in "A Rocky Start", it looks like deucite is the sole stat-gain and skill-gain currency. If that's true, what's exp for?

 

[yrsillar]

Experience increases your level, which gives you points to put in your stats. Deucite is for skills and jobs. Level gives you more health too, and in the case of jobs with resource pools usually boosts those too.

 

[Sirrocco]

Ah. Is there any job-change or multi-job mechanic? (It looks like not, and personally, I'd prefer there not be, but it's worth knowing)

Also, it's pretty clear that there's *some* sort of race-change mechanic. Are we permitted to know what it is?

Should I just hold these questions until they're answered over the course of gameplay?

 

[yrsillar]

Hold onto those ones.

 

[Arkeus]

And yes, the small flood of near physical gods leaving the area after a tower falls almost always does lead to periods of instability and revolution as the lines on the map get re-drawn. Which is why a lot of savvy kingdoms have tournaments selecting their best and most loyal knights/wizards what have you to come to the tower and try to at least get super stronk.

Click to shrink...

Oh wait, uncleared towers are that rare? Like, only one appear every few decades or even every hundred years or something?

Because it was my impression that there were always at least an uncleared Tower somewhere, so there would be a constant trickle of clearers going back to the 'real world'. Of course, those wouldn't really be the really really ridiculous ones, but...

 

[mrttao]

Also, it's pretty clear that there's *some* sort of race-change mechanic. Are we permitted to know what it is?

Click to shrink...

Considering many of those are "the first member of race X came from a tower winner" I am personally guessing random mutations that carry through the generation

 

[yrsillar]

Ah, it seems there was some miscommunication on my part then, new Towers are generally once a generation at most, and it's been slowing down as the unexplored bits of the map shrink.

 

[yrsillar]

You glance between the passages for a moment, considering which to take. Left is tempting, since there might be something interesting down that way, but your kinda curious to see some of the others fighting their way through this tower too, so…

"Let's head right," you decide, already turning to start down the hall as you speak. "We can always check the left later."

"I suppose so," Murdan replies, hurrying to catch up with your longer strides, "I do not know that whoever is fighting will appreciate the aid though. Some of the others in the tower are rather… possessive."

"If they want to be jerks I can always smack them too," you point out, only half joking. Your brash response draws a quiet snicker from your companions summon, and a sigh from the elf himself. Conversation falls off then though seeing as you don't want to lose your focus on your surroundings. It's a good thing too since your attention lets you avoid tromping on a pressure plate and getting riddled with bolts. The plate is pretty obvious once you've seen it, so you remember to keep an eye out for anything similar and point it out to Murdan too. Minor distractions aside, it doesn't take you too long after that to reach the source of the noise. At the end of the hall is a pretty massive square chamber, with each side holding another exit, the ceiling rises into a dome overhead and the room is encircled with pillars alternating with open sarcophagi.

The floor is also littered with bones, and combined with the sarcophagi there are a lot of skeletons in the room, some of the monsters are even better armed then the usual fare wearing the rusty remains of soldiers mail. Of course even with all the flickering eye sockets suddenly looking your way, it's hard not to notice the fight going on to your right at the south entrance of the room.
Mostly cause the lady fighting her way through the miniature horde lets out a downright loony laugh around the time you arrive, right as the two handed sword she's wielding carves through the spines of two skeletons and jams in a third. The sudden gap in the crowd around her gives you a better look at her, short silver hair, weirdly impractical black armor, which seems to exist more to show off her stacked figure than offer any real protection.

Then you have your own crowd of angry bones to deal with, grinning, you set your feet and wind up your club, "Back off!" you demand even as you bring your weapon around in a devastating arc, the first two skeletons in the way are pulverized, the third is merely reduced to shards. It was the sort of attack that would have normal enemies faltering as half their number were wiped out in one blow. Unfortunately, the undead do not know fear.

On the other hand, you've got a backup as well, and an explosion of bright flames engulfs the rank behind the front, leaving you to deal with the three remaining after your swing. One of which is the better equipped ones. The clumsy blows of the other two are easily avoided, but you underestimate the skill of the third and barely avoid getting stabbed in the gut, instead only taking a shallow cut across your side. Ugh, you might need to consider getting some actual armor if you're gonna keep doing this. You hadn't bothered when you left home, trusting your natural toughness to carry you through, but this is gonna be a real pain without any protection.

As your club smashes into a helmed skull, sending teeth scattering as the bony dome whips across the room to smash against the opposite wall, you catch another glance at the other fighter, and briefly meet her eyes. There's a pretty vicious grin on her face, and it's matched in her gaze… you've seen eyes like that before, usually on an the crazy fools who go off to join the storm tamers.
Then the moment passes and your back to wading through the shrinking swarm of enemies… or you would be if another half dozen didn't rise up from the seemingly endless bones on the floor, you hear Murdan call out behind you then, "There is a necromancer among them, get down!"

You have a brief moment to focus on one skeleton in particular lurking behind the others waiting in the wings, a chunk of petrified wood in one hand and some scraps of rotten cloth that might be generously called a robe hanging off it's shoulders, before you feel the building heat behind you and duck, only a few seconds later a white hot beam of fire carves straight through the armored skeleton guarding the robed one and the robed one before continuing on to leave a red hot scar on the wall.

"Now what did you go and do that for!" your inadvertent ally calls, sounding more amused than annoyed, we could have really farmed them up!"

"Rather not get overrun," you call grouchily as you pulverize another skeleton and receive another few superficial scratches in return.

"I have to agree with my companion," Murdan adds from behind you, following your advance at a safe distance, even so, you have to spin and yank a skeleton trying to peel away and attack him back, as he lays down another bolt of flame, less intense than the one that killed the necromancer.

"Tch, spoilsports," the woman snorts, you notice then an oddity, is it just you… or do the skeletons attacking her seem just a bit clumsier than the ones attacking you? It's nothing obvious, but they seem to get in each other's way at just the right times to cover holes in her defense.

The rest of the skeletons go down without much fanfare, but the fight has left you scratched and bloody in places. You grimace and pull a potion from your inventory, popping the wax stopper off to drink down the surprisingly tasty liquid. Tastes kind of like mint. More importantly you feel a comforting coolness throughout your body as wounds knit shut in a matter of seconds.

Spoiler: resources used

-2 Health
-1 Arc Smash, -1 Don't Run Away.
-1 Minor Healing Potion.
+3 Health

As the rewards for the battle begin to form in the center of the room, the woman gives the two of you a considering look. "I guess I won't make a big deal out of you stealing my kills, it's not like there was anything special about this bunch of trash mobs, so just this once, I'll do a three way split."

"Has nothing to do with the fact that there's two of us and one of you right?" you reply with a lazy drawl.

"Course not," she replies grinning, "Pretty sure your little boy toy would fall over from a stiff breeze, most magical types do, so it'd be one on one right quick."

"I am not so weak," Murdan adds with strained dignity, "And I am certainly no one's toy."

"What's with people and weird assumptions," you sigh. Deciding to ignore that for now, you continue on, sticking out your free hand in the near universal (as you've found so far) gesture of greeting, "Not gonna start a fight either, names Yuuka."

The other woman lets out a snorting laugh but clasps your hand anyway, she has a pretty decent grip for someone so much smaller than you. "Ansom will do. You're not too bad in a scrap" She releases your hand and glances toward your companion. "You got a name pretty boy?"

Murdan crosses his arms, a gesture mirrored by the summon on his shoulder, "Murdan Mall'eoch," he responds, just a bit stiffly, "And I am not pretty," he adds with a grumble.

"I've never met an elf that isn't," Ansom replies breezily, "Hasn't changed yet."

You do your best not to snicker, it'd be rude. She's totally right though.

"It is hardly my fault that humans have strange notions of beauty," Murdan replies with all the injured dignity of a nobleman.

"Whatever you say," she replies dismissively, before looking over to you, "Can't say I've seen an Oni away from the islands in a decade or two. Couldn't resist the challenge huh?"

"I just wanted to travel," you reply simply. "Found out about this place later, seems like a fun place to challenge myself." You squint at her, "I'm no expert on humans, but you don't look like you have more than two decades on ya." As you speak, the glowing motes in the room condense into a tidy pile of shards.

"I've aged gracefully," Ansom drawls. "Now not that this isn't all sorts of fun, but I'd rather be out carving up skeletons, so now that the shards are here, I'll take my share and get moving," the impatient woman is already glancing up one of the unexplored halls. "Maybe I'll look you up when the going gets a bit tougher. The two of you weren't terrible there."

"I guess you were passable yourself," you reply wryly, drawing a grin from the shorter woman. A few moments to count them out and divvy it up and Ansom heads off up the north tunnel, leaving the two of you to go east.

+8 Deucite Shards
+10 XP

"What a vulgar woman," Murdan grumbles once the two of you are alone, "Really, you would think you would polite to avoid conflict in that kind of situation."

"She doesn't seem like the type to avoid conflict period," you reply, amused. "You're just mad that she called you pretty. I'm surprised you paid any attention to what she was saying though, given the skin she was showin off." You start walking toward the other tunnel as you talk, with Murdan following. "if she had a good set of horns and a bit more height she woulda had the guys back home drooling." Not that you're jealous or anything, you've played around a bit, just like any oni your age, your horns are great if you do say so yourself, haven't cracked or chipped em in years.

"Not you as well," he grumbles, "I will have you know that all the physical attributes in the world do not make up for a poor personality."

Bullshit, you think but don't say. Maybe elves really are different that way though, First knows they have enough other weird customs. "We should keep moving though, how're you on stamina?"
The tiny summon on his shoulder gives a thumbs up, as your group leaves the room, Murdan responding verbally a second later, "I should be well enough to see us through a few more battles. I take you want to reach your first 'level up', before we leave?" he asks, the weird term for growing stronger sounds awkward coming out of his mouth.

"You got me," you admit. "It seems like I don't need much more after that big room."

"You would need less if the skeletons spawned by the necromancer were worth the full value," he responds.

You glance back, "So you weren't just worried about being overrun?"

He grimaces, "I was at that, but from what I have heard from others summoned foes are only worth a fraction of their normally spawned kin. Fighting them is wasteful."

Huh, the more you know.

The two of you wander the halls of the tower for a while longer smashing up smaller rooms worth of skellies, it isn't great loot-wise, but it adds up. You end up having to use up a charge of breaker to get through this weird spinning blade trap thing too. Eventually though you get enough to level after a room with three spear armed skeletons guarding a big iron door. You're getting kinda worn down, death by a thousand cuts and all. You could guzzle another potion, but that wouldn't refill your ability uses and Murdan's running low on everything but his basic fire bolt, so you decide to retire after that.

You do your best to recall the way as you stomp down the handful of skellies that respawned on the path behind you, and you think you'll be able to find your way back if you want.

+6 Deucite Shards
+10 XP

You take a deep breath of the cool evening air as you step outside of the tower, before turning back to Murdan, "Well, was good working with ya. I guess this is where we part ways though."
"I suppose so," Murdan replies as he steps out of the tower as well, casting a slightly relieved look at the evening sky. "You were a valuable companion, I would not be opposed to working together again."

"Same," you reply, briefly clasping hands with the elf, "We'll see though, gotta play the field a little you know?"

"Indeed," he says, amused. "We will just have to see what the future brings. Do stay safe."

"Yeah, you too, see ya Murdan," the two of you part ways at the camp, leaving you to ponder your evenings activity, and where to put your newly gained 'stat points' as well as how to spend your deucite, on one hand, you could probably power up your skills a fair bit, but you might want supplies or maybe something to wear that at least has a little defensive value. You then glance down at your now torn traveling clothes. Looks like you have some maintenance to do tonight too.

You have reached level two. You have two stat Points
[] Stat
[] Stat

You may spend your deucite on skills
[] Spending?

What would you like to do with your evening?
[] Check out the shops
[] Go around, meet people, be sociable.
[] Gather information on the tower.

Would you like to sleep under protection tonight? (Costs 2 Deucite Shards)
[] Yes/no

 

[Arkeus]

[X] Agility
[X] Toughness

I am not sure I am right, but I really dislike always moving first, so getting a minimum of agility so that we can manoeuvre a bit sounds good. I would also be tempted by Will or Strength.

You may spend your deucite on skills
[X] Raise Greatclub to D
[X] Raise Warrior's Challenge to D


What would you like to do with your evening?
[X] Check out the shops

Basically we'll need an armour soon. Right now it's not necessarily needed to buy the worst one, especially as food/sleep needs Deucite and levelling up skills to D is probably better than just the worst armour, but knowing what is there and how much it costs means making tomorrow's deliving plans easier.


Would you like to sleep under protection tonight? (Costs 2 Deucite Shards)
[X] No

2 Shards is really not a lot... but it means that if there is no issue we can raise another skill to D before delving tomorrow (Breaker for example) or even buy something that costs 5 shards or so.

yrsillar, is it possible to use shards while delving, or only when back in camp?

 

[Tavarokk]

Three delver updates in a row T_T

 

[yrsillar]

You can't modify your stats inside the tower. Sorry for not noting that earlier.

Mother is next Tavarokk.

 

[Sirrocco]

[x] Strength
[x] Toughness

focus on our strengths.

[x] Raise Greatclub to C

[x] Check out the shops
-[x] See what there is for armor

[x] No
-[x] Instead, move off a distance into the woods

We have just enough to raise Greatclub to C, and it's worth it to do that sooner rather than later. We probably don't want to bother with T1 armor, and we won't have enough shards for higher than that, so we might as well see what's out there for next time. As for sleeping - once we raise greatclub skill, we'll have all of one shard left - not enough to be worth stealing.

 

[Xicree]

[X] Strength
[X] Toughness

Because those are what an Oni is all about. Smash, and not get smashed when smashed. All else is arbitrary.

[X] Greatclub to C, clothing is for the weak and puny.

[X] Go around, meet people, be sociable.
-[X] Look for Ansom... if she's in town she'll know how to find a good time, you're sure of that at least.

[X] No

 

[Sirrocco]

Strength: Your ability to leverage brute force, affects melee attack acc/damage.
Toughness: How much physical punishment you can take: Defense against physical damage, adds to health
Agility: Your speed and maneuverability and reaction time. Defends against physical attacks if higher than toughness, determines turn order.
Dexterity: Controls smaller, fiddly motions and actions. Used in crafting, trap disabling, stealth and other such things.
Perception: Your ability to notice small details and find hidden things. Mostly used to counter stealth and find secrets.
Power: Your ability to leverage the well of arcane power available to all living things. Affects magical attacks acc/damage
Will: Your ability to persevere through difficulty and resist mental assaults: Defense against non-physical attacks. Adds to health.
Presence: Your ability to inspire others and lead: Some social effects, used for various leadership and pet taming classes.

Click to shrink...

So, based on this...
- Strength: Very important. What we use to hit things, both accuracy and damage
- Toughness: Very important. It's always going to be above agility, so it's what we're going to be using to not take damage, and also provides HP.
- Agility: Dump stat. Toughness is higher, so it's no defensive boost, and we have Warrior's Challenge to make sure they come to us (and keep them from running), so we dont' need it so much for chasing people down. Dumping agility does mean that we'll probably want to aim for having ranged and/or agility-based characters in the party to take care fo the casters int eh back, but that's a doable thing, and Warrior's Challenge, again, means that we can support them pretty well.
- Dexterity: Dump stat. Not something we're ever going to be good at, or inclined towards. Breaker is there *specifically* to let us dump this stat completely.
- Perception: Somewhat important. It's important that *someone* in the party has a decent level of this. It doesnt' have to be us, but there's no particular reason why it shouldn't be us, either.
- Power: Dump stat. We literally have no use for it. Also, we're not actually capable of raising it, so there's that.
- Will: Somewhat important. Will become more important as weclimb the tower and mental/magical attacks become more prevalent.
- Presence: Not entirely useless. There are people who get notable advantages off this stat, and we are not one of them. By and large, I expect it to be a dump stat by default if only because we're always going to have something else that's higher priority, but it's not like a few points would be a terrible thing.

For our shard buys, we have 16 right now, which is enough to raise three things from E to D, or one thing from E to C (leaving us with a single shard, in either case).
- Job: unlocks new skills, ups stat caps, lets us wear better armor, and probably gives us a passive skill at C. For the moment, mostly interesting for the passive. I don't think it's worth it just yet, but it might be soon - particularly depending on the gear that's available.
- Greatclub: our bread and butter. The most important skill we have, and one that's directly and immediately applicable.
- Warrior's Challenge: This pretty much does what we want it to already. At some point, ranking it up *might* give us an answer for those guys who want to sit in the back and summon or throw fire or whatever, but that's really not guaranteed. We'll certainly want to raise this over time, but I don't think we need to raise it yet.
- Breaker: our ability to get through noncombat challenges. Pretty solid for the moment, but upping it to D wouldn't be a terrible idea.
- Steel Stomach: For the moment it's immunity to ingested poisons. I have no idea what this turns into at higher ranks. It's probably interesting and worthwhile, but it's also likely pretty niche. I'd be buying this one once we start running out of other things to spend shards on.
- Armor: we could decide not to spend anything for the moment, and just go shopping for armor with our 16 shards. That way, we can be pretty much guaranteed of getting something, and if T3 armor is available for 11 shards or less, we can buy up out job rank by one, and then buy armor.

-As far as sleeping arrangements, we're noted as having "always been a light sleeper". Less risk than it might have been.

 

[Arkeus]

So, based on this...
- Agility: Dump stat. Toughness is higher, so it's no defensive boost, and we have Warrior's Challenge to make sure they come to us (and keep them from running), so we dont' need it so much for chasing people down. Dumping agility does mean that we'll probably want to aim for having ranged and/or agility-based characters in the party to take care fo the casters int eh back, but that's a doable thing, and Warrior's Challenge, again, means that we can support them pretty well.

Click to shrink...

Good point about Warrior's challenge. Changing my vote.

- Warrior's Challenge: This pretty much does what we want it to already. At some point, ranking it up *might* give us an answer for those guys who want to sit in the back and summon or throw fire or whatever, but that's really not guaranteed. We'll certainly want to raise this over time, but I don't think we need to raise it yet.

Click to shrink...

I disagree here: Warrior's Challenge is what makes us better in a group and is our CC. CC is very, very important. I think this is possibly more important than GreatClub, especially as we might want GreatAxe or whatever later.

-As far as sleeping arrangements, we're noted as having "always been a light sleeper". Less risk than it might have been.

Click to shrink...

Indeed.

Also, I had not thought of ranking up our Job.... that might be really good too, however Sirrocco, as far as I am aware Job Rank has nothing to do with what gear we can use, that's solely a level thing. Likewise, job rank seems to be "increase stat caps and give special things at C,A,S", as well as unlock more skills for purchase. Do we want to unlock more skills right now? my thought is that this would be something to do when we have already ranked up Greatclub/Warrior's Challenge to C.

So, new vote:

[X] Strength
[X] Toughness

[X] Raise Greatclub to D
[X] Raise Warrior's Challenge to D

[X] Check out the shops
-[X] See what there is for armor

This leaves us 6 Deucite for either buying armour or ranking up something (Breaker most likely) to D.

[X] No

 

[Sirrocco]

I disagree here: Warrior's Challenge is what makes us better in a group and is our CC. CC is very, very important. I think this is possibly more important than GreatClub, especially as we might want GreatAxe or whatever later.

Click to shrink...

It is our taunt skill, yes. It's also the only CC we get - but we have enough that getting more won't actually help us. Right now, what it does is keep the enemy focused on us rather than on our allies, and keep the enemy from running away. The last time we were out, every single attack was focused at us rather than our ally, and we haven't yet run into an enemy who would even think of running. It's of great long-term utility, but for the moment adding more isn't going to do a whole lot for us - while cranking our greatclub up to C rather than up to D will give us two more attack dice (and will probably give us some useful specials or extra uses of Arc Smash or something). If we're going to be buying skills other than Greatclub, at this point, Breaker is probably the more useful.

 

[Xicree]

It is our taunt skill, yes. It's also the only CC we get - but we have enough that getting more won't actually help us. Right now, what it does is keep the enemy focused on us rather than on our allies, and keep the enemy from running away. The last time we were out, every single attack was focused at us rather than our ally, and we haven't yet run into an enemy who would even think of running. It's of great long-term utility, bot for the moment adding more isnt' goign to do a whole lot for us - while cranking our greatclub up to C rather than up to D will give us two more attack dice (and will probably give us some useful specials or extra uses of Arc Smash or something).

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Many such 'Taunt' skills level to give Buffs to the taunter/debuffs to the taunted.

Leveling it is likely to give it further utility beyond a simple 'taunt'.

 

[Sirrocco]

Many such 'Taunt' skills level to give Buffs to the taunter/debuffs to the taunted.

Leveling it is likely to give it further utility beyond a simple 'taunt'.

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Okay. I can see that argument. I still think we're better off going Greatclub to C today (which we *know* will help directly with the killing). If you're absolutely set on Warrior's Challenge, though, why not also invest in Breaker? That's the sort of thing we could easily need more of, even this early.

Worth noting: taking something to D costs 5 shards and gives +1 dice. Taking it to C costs 10 shards on top of that, and gives an extra +2 dice. It *looks* like there's an efficiency loss at first, but there really isn't.

 

[Grosstoad]

[X] Toughness
[X] Toughness 2

[X] Raise Greatclub to D

[X] Check out the shops
-[X See what there is for armor
--[X] if there aren't any that is suitable for you, raise Greatclub to C

[X] No

 

[Sirrocco]

[X] Toughness
[X] Toughness 2

[X] Raise Greatclub to D

[X] Check out the shops
-[X See what there is for armor
--[X] if there aren't any that is suitable for you, raise Greatclub to C

[X] No

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Actually, this is a good point. yrsillar - could we move the shard buy question to after we've seen the armor prices (assuming that "go shopping" wins)? If we want to go armor shopping, it makes mroe sense to have a decent grasp of the prices before we decide whether to spend on armor or skills. If we can afford quality 3 or quality 4 gear soon, for example, it makes sense to prioritize job skill. If the price of Q3 gear is measured in chunks, then we might as well buy Q2 now (if we can afford it), and get skills off of what's left. If we can get Q3 armor with 11 or less shards, then buying up to Oni Warrior D and buying the armor straight off suddenly becomes a much more appealing proposition.

 

[Arkeus]

It is our taunt skill, yes. It's also the only CC we get - but we have enough that getting more won't actually help us. Right now, what it does is keep the enemy focused on us rather than on our allies, and keep the enemy from running away. The last time we were out, every single attack was focused at us rather than our ally, and we haven't yet run into an enemy who would even think of running. It's of great long-term utility, but for the moment adding more isn't going to do a whole lot for us - while cranking our greatclub up to C rather than up to D will give us two more attack dice (and will probably give us some useful specials or extra uses of Arc Smash or something). If we're going to be buying skills other than Greatclub, at this point, Breaker is probably the more useful.

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Adding more means being able to fight larger groups while still having everyone focused on us. While we won't have the raw damage of Greatclub C, it actually helps a lot as long as we don't solo if we do want to go farther tomorrow.

Furthemore, not only is it possible we'll get new skills at D but we'll also probably get more use of our dailies, so that's good too.

The descriptions of the fights didn't make it seem like we had much trouble killing the enemies either, and we are putting one more point in STR as well as Greatclub D. While it only means one more dice (5/2 is still = 2) it's not like we are not putting anything there at all.

If the price of Q3 gear is measured in chunks, then we might as well buy Q2 now (if we can afford it), and get skills off of what's left. If we can get Q3 armor with 11 or less shards, then buying up to Oni Warrior D and buying the armor straight off suddenly becomes a much more appealing proposition.

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Again, gear is level+1 minimum. As far as we know it has nothing to do with jobs.

However, the whole reason I am not buying Breaker to D yet is that we can do so in the morning before going and I want to see the armours, yes.

 

[Sirrocco]

Adding more means being able to fight larger groups while still having everyone focused on us. While we won't have the raw damage of Greatclub C, it actually helps a lot as long as we don't solo if we do want to go farther tomorrow.

Furthemore, not only is it possible we'll get new skills at D but we'll also probably get more use of our dailies, so that's good too.

The descriptions of the fights didn't make it seem like we had much trouble killing the enemies either, and we are putting one more point in STR as well as Greatclub D. While it only means one more dice (5/2 is still = 2) it's not like we are not putting anything there at all.

Again, gear is level+1 minimum. As far as we know it has nothing to do with jobs.

However, the whole reason I am not buying Breaker to D yet is that we can do so in the morning before going and I want to see the armours, yes.

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Right now, our taunt ability is high enough that it has not failed at any point. While that's not a reason to never invest, it is a reason to think that it shouldn't be top priority.

It's highly likely that we'll get more special abilities and more special ability uses from upgrading any of our skills. The question is what sort of special ability they are. Warrior's Challenge will get mroe taunt, might get some pulls, might get some debuffs. Greatclub will get more smashy - and while we din't have particular *trouble* hitting the foe, adding mroe smashy means we kill them faster, which gives them less time to hit us, and also raises our target priority. It probably won't raise our target priority as *much* as straight-up buying more points in Warrior's Challenge, but being more smashy does mean that we're a bigger threat, and that has implications.

For the gear... ah. I had misunderstood. Of course, when I first read it, I didn't realize we had an independent "level" stat, so that's perhaps understandable. Thanks for the correction.

On the whole, that suggests that we're going to be qualifying for better gear pretty regularly. We probably want to focus our shard expenditure on our skills (which won't go away) where possible, buy equipment only when necessary, and then get the best stuff we can so as to stave off as long as possible the time when it'll be necessary again.

 

[Darkened]

Our goals in conflict in priority

1. Live
2. Keep enemy attention on us.
3. Damage enemies
4. Progress upward

Our taunt takes care of goal 2 and helps goal 3, but actively makes goal 1 harder in many cases.

By contrast, great-club helps with goal 1 (We're more skilled, so we're going to kill more before we get hit, block more, and hamper retreating enemies better). Hopefully we'll see a stun or the like here as this ranks up. I imagine aggressive tanking may be easier to see via great-club than a more conventional defensive build (stun-locks, crippling, debuffing via pain and damage, breaking weapons, etc).

Breaker is potentially quite useful utility, but falls mostly into goal 4, so it can be left until we have more sustainable farming. Steel Stomach is very good, but its improvements aren't obvious.

Worth noting is that it's going to get exponentially easier to raise low ranking skills up to par as we get farther up and rewards (presumably) increase.

- Strength: Very important. What we use to hit things, both accuracy and damage
- Toughness: Very important. It's always going to be above agility, so it's what we're going to be using to not take damage, and also provides HP.
- Agility: Dump stat. Toughness is higher, so it's no defensive boost, and we have Warrior's Challenge to make sure they come to us (and keep them from running), so we dont' need it so much for chasing people down. Dumping agility does mean that we'll probably want to aim for having ranged and/or agility-based characters in the party to take care fo the casters int eh back, but that's a doable thing, and Warrior's Challenge, again, means that we can support them pretty well.
- Dexterity: Dump stat. Not something we're ever going to be good at, or inclined towards. Breaker is there *specifically* to let us dump this stat completely.
- Perception: Somewhat important. It's important that *someone* in the party has a decent level of this. It doesnt' have to be us, but there's no particular reason why it shouldn't be us, either.
- Power: Dump stat. We literally have no use for it. Also, we're not actually capable of raising it, so there's that.
- Will: Somewhat important. Will become more important as weclimb the tower and mental/magical attacks become more prevalent.
- Presence: Not entirely useless. There are people who get notable advantages off this stat, and we are not one of them. By and large, I expect it to be a dump stat by default if only because we're always going to have something else that's higher priority, but it's not like a few points would be a terrible thing.

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Mostly agreed. However, I'd disagree on agility. It determines turn order, which means our ability to move first. In ambushes, or against high damage situations, getting a shot off first to stun or drop Warrior's Challenge and focus enemies on us before they go could be vital. If turn order leads to extra turns at a point, i tmay be even more essential to keep damage up at certain thresholds. For perception, we'll want it as a tank. Against sneak attack, enemies trying to move aroudn us, etc we'll want some solid anti-stealth to keep enemies firmly stuck on us and put us between the enemy and our back-up. If we end up with a very perception-centric ally, I'd be willing to consider dropping it, but it's something that we do have reason to have on us.

In general, I'd say our priority is probably going to be...

Toughness=>Strength>Will>Perception=>Agility>>>>>Everything else.

So our total dump stats are presence, power and dex.

The need for these things is, of course, conditional and dependent on skills, potions, support, etc. Depending on buffs and how widespread some skills are, will could drop dramatically in priority.


[X] Strength
[X] Toughness

[X] Raise Greatclub to D

[X] Check out the shops
-[X] See what there is for armor
-[X] Look into potion costs
[X] No


Of note is that if there isn't any armor that jumps out and potions aren't cheap enough to invest in heavily, I'd very much like to push Greatclub to C and grab a new passive ability simply because of how core it is at the moment and how much it could stand to grant in terms of combat advantage. I'd expect either a damage boost or something like a secondary knockback or stun chance on our attacks, either of which would drastically reduce early incoming damage.

Given the extra boost at C, and the fact that, at present, one day of adventuring as a level 1=1 skill to C (and cost 2 potions), we shouldn't anticipate much trouble in raising every skill we ever see to C. Our present income will soon get much much bigger, and it may be simply that we gain more out of a few pots consumed as we push up our skills/job to the C range to help our defense than we would out of a set of beginner armor.