Dungeon Delver Quest (Original Fantasy... again)

[Tavarokk]

[X] Strength
[X] Toughness
[X] Raise Greatclub to D
[X] Check out the shops
-[X] See what there is for armor
-[X] Look into potion costs
[X] No

 

[Guile]

The thing is, we don't even have a group at the moment. We can probably solo or pickup group to level 3-4, and get taunt then.

As a solo, damage and toughness is key.

 

[Arkeus]

The thing is, we don't even have a group at the moment. We can probably solo or pickup group to level 3-4, and get taunt then.

As a solo, damage and toughness is key.

Click to shrink...

If you are planning to get Yuuka to solo tomorrow, yeah getting Greatclub to C or getting an armour are definitely the best choices.

I was more thinking along the lines of having Yuuka picking a a different adventurer to duo with every days for the next few days so as to make contacts. Also there will be a sharp difference in growth pace once we have our first handful levels and skills to C, so it's probably 'best' not to have a full party till then regardless.

EDIT:

Just realized I was an idiot and Sirrocco and Guile and Darkened are right.

We currently have a 3d pool for hitting people, and a 1d pool for our toughness. My current plan would bring this to 4d pool for hitting people, and 2d pool for our toughness.

OTOH, Bringing our Greatclub to C will mean taking our hitting people pool to 6d... Which would be a 50% increase compared to my plan, and a 100% increase compared to currently.

So, yeah, totally worth it. yrsillar, I am assuming the 2 auto-success from our GreatClub is for damage, not hitting people?


[X] Strength
[X] Toughness

[X] Raise Greatclub to D

[X] Check out the shops
-[X] See what there is for armor
-[X] Look into potion costs

[X] No

This should leave us enough Deucite, if there is no good Armours, to bring up our Greatclub to C.

 

[mrttao]

The problem with not sleeping under protection is, I think, mainly pick pockets.
Some thief or another could have put some deucite into leveling up their pickpocket skill and stealth skill to the point where we will wake up with our deucite and potion missing and we won't even realize it was gone.

[x] yes

 

[Guile]

Easy way to fix that: spend it!

 

[mrttao]

Easy way to fix that: spend it!

Click to shrink...

most stuff we can buy can be stolen too. and what about our health potion (and any more we get?)

 

[Sirrocco]

most stuff we can buy can be stolen too. and what about our health potion (and any more we get?)

Click to shrink...

Skills can't be stolen. The health potion would be a loss, but not one worth spending two shards to be a bit more sure of.

At *some* point we'll want a more secure sleeping arrangement. I don't think that this is necessarily that point, though.

 

[yrsillar]

Your accuracy is your damage kind of. Lets take an example, Yuuka attacks a skeleton warrior and rolls her three dice. She gets a 5, 4, 8. Thats one success. Now add two auto successes from weapon quality. and you have three. Skeleton warrior rolls his defense which is one dice, a 6 which fails but gets one auto success for armor quality. So its 3 vs 1, meaning you deal two damage, Greatclub adds one extra damage since you successfully inflicted some with your roll, bringing the damage to three.

Make sense?

Also yeah, you can hold off till you have the basic shop inventory. There'll be another spending vote before hitting the tower

 

[Arkeus]

Mmmh, interesting. This does make gear incredibly strong, as it gives a flat auto-success per quality, and apparently you can be wearing gear of your level+1 for quality. Given that a auto-success is the equivallent of 2.5dices, this mean that +1 level of gear is roughly the equivalent of +6 in a Stat. That's... a lot.

This also means that while getting to C is still much better than to D, it's not as much of a leap I was thining (because the 2 autosucces are already the equivalent of 5d, so we are already rolling the equivalent of 8d, not 3d).

 

[yrsillar]

Gear above a certain level is also quite rare, Q3 or maaaaybe four at the outside is the best you can expect to find outside a tower, barring folks who invested a crafting skill past C

 

[Sirrocco]

Mmmh, interesting. This does make gear incredibly strong, as it gives a flat auto-success per quality, and apparently you can be wearing gear of your level+1 for quality. Given that a auto-success is the equivallent of 2.5dices, this mean that +1 level of gear is roughly the equivalent of +6 in a Stat. That's... a lot.

This also means that while getting to C is still much better than to D, it's not as much of a leap I was thining (because the 2 autosucces are already the equivalent of 5d, so we are already rolling the equivalent of 8d, not 3d).

Click to shrink...

Worth noting that Greatclub E gives one die (because it's an applicable skill) plus one autosuccess for damage purposes (because that's its passive buff). The C rank is going to up the dice total to 4, but will also likely give a bump to the passive effect (in addition to whatever else we get for the skill).

Question for yrsillar: does Warrior's Challenge have anything it adds raw dice to, or is it just passive effect and powers?

Also, given that all but one of the votes thus far has us checking out the shops, is there any chance you could lock that in at some point, give a quick listing of available stuff and let us make purchase decisions based on it? ...or should we just try to pull everyone onto the "vote for not buying stuff yet" bandwagon? In particular, I can see concerns about wanting to make all of our purchases (skill and gear) before nightfall so as to not have too many shards for people to steal.

 

[yrsillar]

I suppose I can put together a mini update of the shop inventories.

 

[Minion #Q]

[X] Strength
[X] Toughness
[X] Raise Greatclub to D
[X] Check out the shops
-[X] See what there is for armor
-[X] Look into potion costs
[X] No

 

[Larekko12]

[X] Strength
[X] Toughness
[X] Raise Greatclub to D
[X] Check out the shops
-[X] See what there is for armor
-[X] Look into potion costs
[X] No

 

[Arkeus]

Worth noting that Greatclub E gives one die (because it's an applicable skill) plus one autosuccess for damage purposes (because that's its passive buff). The C rank is going to up the dice total to 4, but will also likely give a bump to the passive effect (in addition to whatever else we get for the skill).

Click to shrink...

Yeah, it's basically a question of reliably crossing the threshold. For example, for Skeletons currently if we have no successes but they have one we either do not touch them or only the bonus damage applies (I don't know what happens on equal defense to attack). Given we roll 3d and they roll 1d this is a fairly rare event but still worth noting, especially as Skeletons are probably the lowest types of enemies. If we were to roll 6d however getting no successes will be fairly rare, so we should be fairly certain to touch enemies even against skeletons mini-bosses or some such.

If the passive damage boost also follows the dice boost (1=> 2 => 4), this basically means that we can be expected in normal hits to actually give 2 successes + 2 auto Successes > 1 = 3 +4 (passive damage bonus) =7 damage on average compared to our present average of 3 damage. this is a big enough difference that as long as we weren't killing everything in one hit we can be expected to more than double our clearing speed.

 

[mrttao]

At the moment we can kill 3 enemies with 1 hit. but we are limited by our HP

Skills can't be stolen.

Click to shrink...

But equipment can, and equipment is more efficient than skills up to a point. We don't even have any armor yet.

 

[Sirrocco]

At the moment we can kill 3 enemies with 1 hit. but we are limited by our HP

But equipment can, and equipment is more efficient than skills up to a point. We don't even have any armor yet.

Click to shrink...

We can clear three enemies at a hit by using our daily power. Higher ranks should give us more uses of that, though.

For a limited amount of equipment, we can sleep in such a way as to make it arbitrarily difficult to steal (like sleeping on top of it, or cradled in our arms). Combined with light sleeper....

Also, we really don't know about the comparative efficiency of skills and gear at this point. We won't know until we start seeing some prices.

 

[Bre Karn]

Three delver updates in a row T_T

Click to shrink...

Begone, foul demon! Back to the abyss with you!

[X] Strength
[X] Toughness
[X] Raise Greatclub to D
[X] Check out the shops
-[X] See what there is for armor
-[X] Look into potion costs
[X] No

 

[drake_azathoth]

[X] Strength
[X] Toughness
[X] Raise Greatclub to D
[X] Check out the shops
-[X] See what there is for armor
-[X] Look into potion costs
[X] No

 

[yrsillar]

Alright, winner is pretty obvious here, so I'm going to lock up. The shop inventories have been posted on the front page, so folks can vote on what to do with your remaining shards (You've spent five)

As a side note keep in mind that displayed shop inventories are the things Yuuka is interested in... and yes, that means you can currently only use cloth armor

 

[Arkeus]

Mmmh. That means we probably need to upgrade our Job Rank to get new armour proficiency. So here is the question: buying the Yamabushi's Garb actually gives us +2 auto-success on our toughness/defense, and we currently only have a 2d there, so that's the equivalent of +5d. This is a pretty huge buff to our ability to facetank anything.

OTOH, bringing our Greatclub to C also greatly increases our ability to destroy everything, and after the next run we might want to increase our Job's rank and get another type of armour instead of simply cloth armour.

Decisions, decisions. A pity we can't exactly see what Greatclub D gives yet

[X] Bring our Greatclub to C (use 10 shards)
Utimately voting this because I want to increase our job rank and see if another armour type is better suited for us, and I dislike spending exp for things we'll dismiss very quick.

 

[Sirrocco]

[x] Buy the Yamabushi's Garb

It's pretty and it's shiny and it's Q2 (with more for fire). It'll last us until we start pulling dungeon drops, and it means that we don't have anything all that easy to steal when we sleep tonight.

Basically, it seems to me to be the obvious choice if we're going to buy armor at all - and buying armor seems like it would be worthwhile. We can resell it (at a bit of a loss) after we get something better.

Depending on how long it takes us to get better armor, it could result in a significant savings in heal potions. Of course, if we wind up looting armor tomorrow, it's a waste, but yrsillar quests are pretty reliable about not having trap options.

 

[yrsillar]

Actually, just updated the skills and stats.

 

[Grosstoad]

Mmmh. That means we probably need to upgrade our Job Rank to get new armour proficiency.

Click to shrink...

Mmm, depends.

Most real life legends of oni make them out as using only the barest of protection, very primitive barbarian monsters.
Current fantasy oni sometimes use oriental armor, conflating their oriental origins and armors that originated from the orients, so you can see modern artworks of oni in samurai or bushi armors.

That's probably the best we can expect out of the Oni Warrior class, depends on which class change/evolution we go for, I think?

 

[Arkeus]

Mmh right. Having 3uses/day on our AOE does increase clear speed a lot (as well as the +1d to hit, and auto-succ to damage), and Meteor Crash is actually pretty dangerous without an armour. I guess I'll be switching my vote to:

[x] Buy the Yamabushi's Garb
Might get convinced otherwise though!

 

[Grosstoad]

An additional opinion about armor and Oni Warrior's low proficiency with them, I picked double Toughness specifically for that, because it offers improved defense and durability, extending the duration before a potion is going to be needed, and letting offense be handled mostly by Skill level.

 

[Arkeus]

An additional opinion about armor and Oni Warrior's low proficiency with them, I picked double Toughness specifically for that, because it offers improved defense and durability, extending the duration before a potion is going to be needed, and letting offense be handled mostly by Skill level.

Click to shrink...

Keep in mind that we had 3 toughness. Mechanically, having 4 or 5 (one or double upgrade) is the same thing. Honestly, increasing our personal survivability comes in five ways right now: do damage more quickly so we aren't surrounded, skills like Warrior's challenge that do CC, gear, having a good partner, and finding a passive toughness skill.

I refuse to believe that at higher rank jobs Oni's don't have "fucking regeneration" or "fucking adamantine skin".

 

[Grosstoad]

Err, I am not seeing how Warrior's Challenge improve Yuuka's personal safety when she's the one doing it.

Hmm, probably not outright regeneration or metal skin, but Tough as Steel? Or Faster Healing, I can see?
Heck, some kind of skill that allows alcohol to be used as a potion, that really aligns with Oni.

Anyway, voting to buy.
[X] Yamabushi's Garb

 

[Guile]

[X] Greatclub to C, clothing is for the weak and puny.

 

[Darkened]

So, our main problem is sustainability. We have, very likely, enough damage output and accuracy to beat most enemies we've seen fairly consistently. This means we can conceivably earn consistent shards for a day or two and buy up what we don't buy now.

Our biggest issue is damage. If we can't heal incoming damage, things get very desperate. Finishing enemies faster helps, but armor would as well.

But others make good points about armor upgrades in the near future if our job allows more at higher ranks.

So, what defense do we need?

Q1 items should add, as I understand it, 1 success. 1 success=1 damage. We have never taken more than one damage at a time from what I can see. Since then we've added 1 toughness (a die) and can now add up to two successes. We have a potion and used one on our prior day.

From that I conclude that the Warrior's Garb should generally be sufficient to get us through a day relatively unscathed. It's also possible we may want to recruit a third member for support tomorrow which would further reduce the need for armor immediately.

However, it also makes sense to spend shards now rather than keep them given that immediate spending should multiply into future income. Not needing a potion is 2 shards. So, if the yamabushi's outfit ever saves us 2 potions (6 HP averted) over the Warrior's that's paying for itself.

[X] Buy Yamabushi's Garb