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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Mr Zoat said:
"You know you're not a god, right?"
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I feel like the only proper answer in this context is "You know that you aren't actually funny, right?" Using the exact same expression and tone of voice.

I can see the conversation in my mind. Jake would then respond with "I'm hysterical"

Then Paul says "I'm a god"
 
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Mr Zoat said:
9th October 1999
13:13 MDT

"Well, no. I mean, we all can." I shrug in answer to Major Carter's question. "Genetic-." I frown. "You're aware of goa'uld genetic memory?"

She nods. "Goa'uld inherit their memories from their mothers."
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Sadly, when their mothers are just as assholish and arrogant, that tends to encode them with an innate superiority complex. have to wonder how far back all that goes, and whether all of the current Goa'uld share a common ancestor somewhere who's ultimately responsible for all of that attitude...

We're taking a break in negotiations while General Hammond's staff frantically try to find out if there are any Akkadian-speaking welders on Earth, though I've pretty much accepted in my heart that we're going to end up using English as the Latin of Syrania: a language for the educated elite. The words we need for technology just don't exist in Akkadian, and the only other language we could use would be the main goa'uld language. And if I picked that then I'd need to bring in other goa'uld, and that's a hard no. Major Carter is on goa'uld-sitting duty with me in the canteen, and I'm sure that the presence of what's starting to feel like half the garrison is due to a fortuitous shift-change.
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I suppose psychically implanting the language into a proficient artisan would be too difficult. Their hand-devices probably aren't that advanced, or precise...

It's nice to be able to get familiar fruit again.

"The first hosts we took were primitive tribals-. The first hosts we remember were primitive tribals. I've long suspected that we probably used large animals before that, but their minds were too simple to encode anything. But we remember everything since then. I know how to start a fire with flint and kindling and how to build a starship and everything in between. Of course I know how to teach welding myself. Just about all goa'uld do. I'd have to practice with the actual tools your people use to get used to their precise specifications, but it wouldn't be all that hard."
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Specifically these people, if the Wiki is right. And promptly ditched when they found the ape-people from Earth.

She raises her eyebrows a little and snorts. "I guess I just find it a little hard to picture 'gods' in a workshop."

"Hephaestus, Vulcan, Igbo, Ogun, Qaynan, Kagu-tsuchi… Plenty of goa'uld have an interest in smithing or ship-building. I suspect the issue is that you've only fought the more… Snobby.. goa'uld. Those who style themselves as god-kings."
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To be fair, the nerds are happy to stay in their labs fiddling with things. Of course the assholes who want to rule everything are going to be the antagonists...

"And who've spent centuries using a sarcophagus."

"Probably doesn't help."
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True, that probably doesn't help.

"So why don't you just use other goa'uld? Even if you don't have any jaffa yourself, Bastet does."

"Ah… That… Wouldn't work. Goa'uld aren't… Sociable. You.. humans are troupe apes, we're solitary symbiotes. You instinctively seek to surround yourselves with others like you, while we also instinctively try to surround ourselves with others like you. People less knowledgeable then us, less physically capable than us. People whom we can lord it over and lead. Put a newly spawned goa'uld in a teaching role and they'll act out because they haven't mastered their instincts yet."
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Honestly amazing that they managed to get off their homeworld. Guess forced teamwork resulted from their frustration.

"I hadn't thought of it like that." She frowns. "Actually, aren't there a lot more prim'ta in jaffa than you need to replace your numbers?"

I breathe in sharply. "Oooh, yes."
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Ah, one of the tricky parts of the story. Implications of what killing loyalist Jaffa means.

"So, what happens to them? If you can't work together, it seems that you should have a whole lot of adult goa'uld. And you don't, so where are they?"

"They get eaten."
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Ironically, they would likely have found evidence of this on the Goa'uld homeworld during a later visit.

She blinks. "Excuse me?"

"They get eaten. I sometimes wonder if that's why Ra didn't use jaffa; he recognised that while it was a convenient way to get physically superior soldiers it would just create problems in the longer term."
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And presumably as Supreme System lord, he had technology that could make up the gap in physical capabilities, besides the upgraded armour and weapons.

She's starting to look disturbed. "So… Do you just throw them in a lake or.. something?"

"No, no. Mature prim'ta with no host to move into get stuck in storage jars and then eaten by the dominant goa'uld in the area in what is probably a re-enactment of our instinctual pre-sophoncy culling practice."
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Making it an ironic echo of canopic jars, no less. Likely not intentional, and probably a bit of syncretism from Goa'uld rulers to human servants.

She's actually going a little pale, staring at my face on the off-chance that I'm making a joke.

"Major… Goa'uld are a little like vampires. The ideal situation for a goa'uld is one where all the other goa'uld are extinct and no one really believes in goa'uld any more. And… Anyway, you've killed plenty of infant goa'uld; you kill one every time you kill a jaffa."
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Oof. And there he goes, breaking her heroic world-view.

It.. looks like that hadn't occurred to her.

"We've.. never been sure exactly how old prim'ta are."
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No doubt Teal'c is aware of some of these things, and kept quiet about it because it's 'Jaffa affairs'...

"Anything from a couple of hours to a couple of years. You can go up to about six years, but that's pushing it. Goa'uld have the knowledge of their forebears from birth, but it can take a while to get things straight in our head."

"Pushing it? What happens if the prim'ta doesn't get removed?"
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Since she and the SGC know a whole group of friendly Jaffa who might be facing that sort of issue sooner or later..

"The pouch starts to feel unsafe. The prim'ta will become more physically active, which will be pretty painful for the jaffa. Ultimately… We can take jaffa as hosts, which is probably what would happen. That or the prim'ta would inflict serious internal injuries and then leave, though that would only happen if there was a body of water nearby and they were planning to escape there." I frown thoughtfully. "So you should probably get your shol'va in the habit of swapping his baby goa'uld out after every fire fight. You don't want to get stuck somewhere when it ages out. And don't forget to kill the discarded baby afterwards."
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He's already swapped it once during the series to this point. Still, he knows this much, and may well check jaffa corpses for live symbiotes. The problem is that human guns don't really discriminate in what they damage...

"How can-?" She takes a moment to think her question through. "You don't act like other goa'uld. I don't understand how you can say things like that."

I shrug. "We have a different reproductive strategy to you. We don't usually bond with our offspring like you do. Though the few exceptions-." I chuckle. "Have you heard of a group called 'Against Ra'?"

She clearly has. "No? Who are they?"
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The actual meaning of 'Tok'ra'. Heck, she was instrumental in their forming an alliance with the SGC.

"Major, I would advise against taking up poker. Certainly, don't try playing it against people with hundreds of thousands of years of human facial expressions committed to memory." Her eyes dip for a moment. "Like that. 'Against Ra' are the last children of the goa'uld queen Egeria, Ra's queen before Hathor. Before she finally got killed, she created an entire generation of children.. twisted around so that they hate everything about themselves, to the point that they have a hissy fit if you even refer to them as 'goa'uld'. They were supposed to be a revenge weapon against Ra." I snort. "A shame she didn't give them any common sense."
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Huh. A logical explanation for why they never overcame the System lords in all their time fighting them... Self-sabotaging and self-hatred foolhardy naivete... Edit: Well, setting aside their logistical challenges. ;)

"What makes you say that?"

"I need to come to you for teachers because I can't trust other goa'uld to do the job. If I was a queen, I could just breed a generations of goa'uld who really want to teach people things. Take them, fly to an isolated world off the stargate network with a few thousand humans and start teching up. Within five hundred years, there would be no more System Lords. But no: the Against Ra are BY DESIGN too overwhelmed by their hatred to act rationally."
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Sort of a 'If I can kill a Goa'uld and its host, I will, even if it messes up my own plans'? Hopefully that totally-not-a-tok'ra-spy colleague can restrain those impulses...

I frown. "Actually, while I'm here… What exactly is your organisation's long term goal? What are you trying to achieve here?"

"I'm.. afraid that information is classified. I can't talk about it. If you want, you can ask General Hammond-."
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To be fair, they may not have a long-term goal beyond 'Keep Earth safe', and they're not doing great at that so far...

"Are you familiar with the Hague Convention?"

She stops, looking at me. "Yes. Of course. I don't know how you are, but the laws of war are covered in our officer training."
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Though she's probably wondering how he knows about it. :D Just like everything else he knows about modern Earth...

"One of the requirements on all signatories is that belligerent parties state their war goals when declaring war or engaging in a policing action. Given Stargate Command's activities to date, I was assuming that you consider yourself to be at war with the System Lords as a polity. Since I'm part of that polity, I would sort of like some assurance that I'm not helping you genocide my entire species. There are a few of us I quite like."
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Honestly, I doubt there was ever an official declaration of war, given that the System lords wouldn't pay it much mind, already fighting the actions of the SGC as they are.

"We're not trying to exterminate your entire species."

"See, you say that, but I'd like to know if that's actually written down somewhere. You're a soldier fighting in this conflict. What is your war goal?"
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Which could be a whole can of worms to be opened...

"I'll…" Colonel O'Neil walks into the canteen and heads towards our table, giving Major Carter a nod. "Have get back to you. Excuse me."

She gets up, makes some sort of exasperated facial expression I can't see from here to the Colonel -who doesn't respond- and walks out of the canteen while the Colonel-.
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Probably glad to not have to talk to the 'snakehead' anymore, given his rather worrying tendency to mess with people's assumptions.

Teal'c walks in behind him, face expressionless, and heads over to join-.

"So…" O'Neil regards me curiously as he sits down across from me, head tilted slightly to the side. "You know you're not a god, right?"
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Now, how will he respond, I wonder? Facetious? Confrontational? Concillatory? Perhaps he'll thank O'neill for killing Ra...

Quite a few things for Carter to think about or look into while she's away, perhaps. Now, to see Paulmon work his magic on O'neill and Teal'c. By the time they're done, they may well be laughing together and sharing a beer... :oops: Or drawing weapons and trying to kill each other. Either way, this is going to be a fun scene to experience...
 
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Darko said:
However it may potentially be harder for them given their sociopathic nature.
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And you know, sharing headspace with someone who hates you and all you are while sharing all your memories. Probably even activity undermining your own rights to their end.

Vaermina said:
With the help of someone already ascended yes, but we don't know if they're capable of ascending without help.
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That goes for most people, no matter the species.
 
Mr Zoat said:
9th October 1999
13:13 MDT
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Ah yes, the common trend of writers deciding that war crimes are only war crimes when the bad guys do it. Stargate wasn't as bad as some (looking at you SW: Clone Wars) but still fairly fast and loose with acceptable behaviour of soldiers.

"So…" O'Neil regards me curiously as he sits down across from me, head tilted slightly to the side. "You know you're not a god, right?"
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I cannot imagine that he got orders, or even vague permission, to so blatantly antagonise the US's most critical trading partner.
Which means he probably didn't get briefed on how the last idiot faired when trying to argue Paulmon isn't a god.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
Honestly amazing that they managed to get off their homeworld. Guess forced teamwork resulted from their frustration
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Even a machine that's extremely flawed can work for a bit before it explodes.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Huh. A logical explanation for why they never overcame the System lords in all their time fighting them... Self-sabotaging and self-hatred...
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There's also the fact that the System Lord's have entire armies, warships and the like, while the Tok'ra don't.
 
Darko said:
There's also the fact that the System Lord's have entire armies, warships and the like, while the Tok'ra don't.
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If the Tok'ra have similar technical expertise then there isn't really anything stopping them from getting their own warships. They have been active long enough.
 
FreeGod said:
If the Tok'ra have similar technical expertise then there isn't really anything stopping them from getting their own warships. They have been active long enough.
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The Goa'uld also have entire slave populations that mine resources for them and work on making their weapons and tech.

People can know how to build things like complex machinery, that does not mean that they can actually do it by themselves without a massive industry bringing them the various parts they need.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"So…" O'Neil regards me curiously as he sits down across from me, head tilted slightly to the side. "You know you're not a god, right?"
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"Yes, but it's not easy deprogramming an entire slave caste brainwashed by 4000 years of oppression and not have it tear itself apart in a religious civil war."
 
Mr Zoat said:
"So…" O'Neil regards me curiously as he sits down across from me, head tilted slightly to the side. "You know you're not a god, right?"
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Jack when people ask if you're a god you say yes.

Lower case g god Jack not upper case G god.

Depends on your definition of god.


WereDragon said:
I cannot imagine that he got orders, or even vague permission, to so blatantly antagonize the US's most critical trading partner.
Which means he probably didn't get briefed on how the last idiot fared when trying to argue Paulmon isn't a god.
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Last time was in front of his subjects, this is Paul alone at the SGC.
So it's not as likely to blow up in Jacks face nearly as badly, in theory.
 
Vaermina said:
I hope you at least play Jack straight here and have him call out all of Paul's bullshit.
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Dude is an immortal being who can rip the sun out of the sky destroy planets with the wave of a hand and knows all technology up to a hyper advanced level dude is basically a god. Small g
 
Ciber said:
If I was a system lord I would arrange things so that SG1 is in a life or death situation where they can only survive if O'Neil wins a fishing competition.
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O'Neil isn't actually part of Stargate Command, the SI just keeps getting O'Neill's name wrong. O'Neill doesn't fish, he has a fish-free pond which he sits in front of with a rod. I have no idea if O'Neil fishes or not.
 
Vaermina said:
But if you take away his Power Ring, he is just a man.
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A king, a teacher, enternal youth, genius, billionaire, philanthropist. Have to check the cupid section to see if he's a playboy.

Mr Zoat said:
O'Neil isn't actually part of Stargate Command, the SI just keeps getting O'Neill's name wrong. O'Neill doesn't fish, he has a fish-free pond which he sits in front of with a rod. I have no idea if O'Neil fishes or not.
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Until time travel shenanigans put fish there.
I forgot if that happened yet.
 
Doccer said:
Until time travel shenanigans put fish there.
I forgot if that happened yet.
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From the perspective of everyone not traveling in time, by virtue of it being time travel it should already have happened.
I suspect however, that O'Neill might just not have noticed that there are fish in the pond. Or since he doesnt actually fish, he might not care.
 
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It's one of those things that I'm sure everyone will either really enjoy both Paul and O'Neill having this great talk/debate with each other Or Paul putting O'Neill in his place for being an Ass unnecessarily while being polite toTeal'c.
 
Bolo said:
It's one of those things that I'm sure everyone will either really enjoy both Paul and O'Neill having this great talk/debate with each other Or Paul putting O'Neill in his place for being an Ass unnecessarily while being polite toTeal'c.
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Thta would give the game away. No goa'uld would react well to the shol'va.
 
Pretty sure they don't really have to declare anything regarding the war against the Goa'uld. I don't really think you could consider them to be party to the Hague Convention, but even then you can be unofficially at war no problem.

In fact, that's basically become the norm now. Since WW2 nations very rarely officially declare themselves to be in a state of war. Specifically to get around a lot of the restrictions we're supposed to be under in times of war.

For example, the last time the United States officially declared war was when it entered World War 2. None of the conflicts we've been involved in since then have actually been declared wars, even if they've been called wars.

===

As for the Tok'ra. Well. Not really much to say on them beyond agreeing with the sentiment that they're hilariously incompetent.
 
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