Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I would prefer to investigate the dream internet, but if that's not going to win, can the people that voted no exchange to vote for exchange?

We might not be able to help Twilight, but we can help Twilight.

And making a morally wrong choice by abandoning a Twilight again.

Click to shrink...

No, you cannot get me to vote for the opposite of what I want.

I've got no desire to get another Lantern helper, no desire to devote the AP required to help a human adjust to being a pony, and no desire to completely upend Original Twilight's life again. She's been depressed for a few months, sure, but eventually the Forge's Redemption is going to make its way back into pony hooves and so eventually she'll get her horn repaired and her magic back and her life will improve then.

Maybe the therapy group snags her before then, but that just puts her in our daughter's camp and thus not opposed to us. Maybe they don't. Either way, I don't have to vote to devote AP to dealing with her, and I don't have to think about how she's being forced through Gaslight Hell 2, pseudo-real boogaloo.

 

[Rafuki22]

She's been depressed for a few months, sure

Click to shrink...

Ha! Just depressed?

but eventually the Forge's Redemption is going to make its way back into pony hooves and so eventually she'll get her horn repaired and her magic back and her life will improve then.

Click to shrink...

And then she will go straight towards Velvet because she is the one who ruined her life.

The QM alredy said it and this post alredy said it, that ship alredy sailed, that hope of helping Twilight you have is false, if you don't want to vote for the exchange don't, but don't falsely believe that it will help Twilight the way you expect.

Probably the core of my beliefs on Pony Twilight is just that I don't believe things are ever going to improve because there is no one left who Twilight would let in.

Let's go down the list of all those who remain:

Click to shrink...

and thus not opposed to us.

Click to shrink...

Don't know about that.

I don't have to vote to devote AP to dealing with her

Click to shrink...

Yes, because hindsight isn't 20/20, you hope that, not know it.

No, you cannot get me to vote for the opposite of what I want.

Click to shrink...

But fair enough.

 

[Pittauro]

The QM alredy said it and this post alredy said it, that ship alredy sailed, that hope of helping Twilight you have is false, if you don't want to vote for the exchange don't, but don't falsely believe that it will help Twilight.

Click to shrink...

the point is that it won't make things WORSE.

Because kidnapping her and banishing her to a fake dreamrealm where she'd be surrounded by fake parents, fake friends and fake acquaintances who will NOT accept her "I'm a pony" tales, is very much NOT an improvement!

leaving her here is accepting she MIGHT potentially become a risk in the future, OR that she might potentially improve thanks to OTHER people acting (Cadance, Shining, Soft Sweeps, though NOT without our direct involvement).

It's effectively, listening to her final request to stay out of her live, and hope someone else can do something for her, or that she'll at some point find the inner strength to recover.

People get depressed. People especially get depressed when they lose most of their family and are sort of abandoned by the rest.

And yet, people also recover from that. It's not impossible she might recover, either on her own or through the help of other people... that won't be Velvet.

I can't imagine her getting better when surrounded by FAKES though.


I'd slightly prefer staying another turn, mostly for library option, but if I see there's no chance of remaining I'll vote for leaving EQG Twilight here. I'm not even convinced she's a REAL person right now, and not a "dream" we might make real by bringing her in the real world.

...damn, I'm kind of reminded of a small rpgmaker game called "Ib", where (spoilers for the game, it's really good and short and on steam!) basically a painted girl is trying to become real but to do that she has to take the place of someone in the real world... multiple endings, and in some of those
she succeeds and a poor guy is trapped in her place, with her becoming the "sister" of the MC little girl who explored an alternate reality version of the museum where the art pieces are alive, basically.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Ha! Just depressed?

And then she will go straight towards Velvet.

Don't know about that.

Yes, because hindsight isn't 20/20, you hope that, not know it.

But fair enough.

Click to shrink...

Yes, depressed. There's no "just" about it, she is depressed due to the various tragedies inflicted upon her. Hence the malaise, the mute, dull sadness behind everything, the self-isolating, and so on.

If she guns straight for Velvet upon getting her horn fixed she's gonna get steamrolled like Shining vs Comet Feet but worse, I'm not concerned about an angry Loreless pony. Especially since the first pony she might go to, the last one to try and help... would be either Soft Sweeps or Cadance. Good luck subverting that when in such a scenario, especially since they'd know we are the reason Twilight got her horn and her drive back in the first place.

If Twilight decides to go after Velvet, the only way I could see her effectively doing so is to learn about the Mansus and resolve to climb it, possibly in the epilogue to challenge Velvet upon her throne. And that would be a badass epilogue portion, so I wouldn't mind. The day needs some more Hours anyways.

 

[Sveta08]

Goodness gracious. We are still arguing about Twilight? Of all the things we are still focusing there...
Okay. I'll say the two pieces I still have on it that were quiet. But jeez. There are more interesting things elsewhere.


1: Motivation for Twilight Actions.
I had a question when Velvet entered this mirror world. "Is this world only a Reflection of the Wake, or does it reflect back as well?" In other words, is this a false duplicate world, or do the actions we take here "reflect" back to the Wake. Until the second action with Twilight, I couldn't confirm which was the case. You can look back at "In Which There is a Hole" and see I was fighting with that.

Once it became clear it is a reflection, and the only things reflected back in the Wake are things we take, I left it there.


2: Can Twilight in the Wake be helped?
Fundamentally, I believe she can. And I believe it is right to try
However, I believe the "time" that would be right for it would be after the Quest. It will take time, energy, effort from a dozen different people, and it will still likely fail. Possible? Hopefully. Outside the scope and ability before Quest Completion? Unless rare, impossible situations like what was presented in this Sacrament are presented, almost certainly.

However, I don't see this option as a "Fix" for Twilight. I see it as giving up and starting over with someone new. Thus... Everything.



Goodness.
We got wonderful snake lore and potential reflection info about what might be of Pride, but this is all we are talking about about.

Grumble grumble grumble

 

[Rafuki22]

We got wonderful snake lore and potential reflection info about what might be of Pride, but this is all we are talking about about.

Click to shrink...

Is it related to the current vote tbf.

If she guns straight for Velvet upon getting her horn fixed she's gonna get steamrolled like Shining vs Comet Feet but worse

Click to shrink...

If Twilight decides to go after Velvet, the only way I could see her effectively doing so is to learn about the Mansus and resolve to climb it,

Click to shrink...

The same way Velvet stomped that fellow who killed her? You lack imagination and underestimate the RNG and the QM, after the Master jumpscare at that.

It's not as if that's what she would do to hinder Velvet.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

We got wonderful snake lore and potential reflection info about what might be of Pride, but this is all we are talking about about.

Click to shrink...

Oh, I'm right there with you.

"Heck yeah! I finally get to write a Sacrament, present several wacky scenarios that could only happen in a human world or in a less stressful school-comedy setting, and also finally reveal who is this Pasharka who had been mentioned as being important quite literally six months ago!"

Proceeds to see all discussion being about a character who has basically been chewed and munched out of the story thanks to too many factors to count.

I knew I should have just scrapped Twilight as an option altogether

(But jokes aside, I am not complaining. This is just part of the interactive relationship of a quest, between writer and readers. And I won't offer a choice I am not willing to write. So, carry on.)

 

[Alan975]

Grumble grumble grumble

Click to shrink...

Most of us don't have your skill, let us fight over our shiny baubles now and again as a treat

That comparison is uncalled for.

Click to shrink...

?
Sure, it's an extreme example, but considering that I then brought up how it applied to me? No one should take umbrage then

 

[Sveta08]

My grumbling may be exaggerated, but goodness.

I'm so... Just very...
Ax! Pasharka! The hype and the steam and the uncertainty of how Ax will react to the diary! To being freed! To the whole everything?! What to do with the key that only opens afterwards too... Will it be consumed? Will it be broken? Will Ax believe Velvet? What will be asked. What will the votes be?!

Lantern noises of something resembling Sympathy from Baldomare! Scoffing of betrayal of ones nature by Biedde! Will Ax try and vent her frustration and anger and sadness by trying to murder Our Lady?

So many questions! So much that could yet be!

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Is it related to the current vote tbf.


The same way Velvet stomped that fellow who killed her? You lack imagination and underestimate the RNG and the QM, after the Master jumpscare at that.

It's not as if that's what she would do to hinder Velvet.

Click to shrink...

That was in a 1v1 where we started with 1 wound and he was rocking an Influence. We've just upgraded to the 3 Wound Life, Twilight has no Lores with which to call an Influence, and no allies to distract our own party of asskicking monstrosities.

To say nothing of the fact that we are on the cusp of Edge 5 and its Sacrament now.

Now, granted, Velvet had a bigger Influence on at that time, but I really think 5 Edge vs 0 Edge while we have various forms of help on hoof really is going to be one-sided.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

We got wonderful snake lore and potential reflection info about what might be of Pride, but this is all we are talking about about.

Click to shrink...

I'm very curious about the status of "love" in this version of the Mansus. The Mansus we see in the game is explicitly called out as "no place for lovers." Given the existence of Akulites and all they entail, that makes sense, especially when combined with an adept's constant drive for Glory and power gathered solely for the self.

Yet, this setting is also a pony setting, and Cadance is also around. There's literally a Princess of the concept of love. More than that, there's been an ongoing theme of love throughout this quest. There's been Velvet's love for her husband. Velvet's love for her children. Cadance's love for Shining. Celestia and Luna's love for each other. And Rarity's...

Actually, the less said about Rarity, the better.

But we also can't forget about the biggest, setting-defining love: the love the Forge of Days has for the Sun-in-Splendour.

Pasharka found love, and through that, she also managed to escape what's effectively the all-consuming grasp of the Glory. She left behind the chase and the climb for the chance to be happy. That desire for a happy life is all throughout her letter. Though it might not explicitly say it (save for perhaps "Slither through time! Hunt the monsters! And live a different adventure every day!"), I definitely felt that Pasharka desperately wishes for her sister to obtain a similar chance at happiness.

DoA's reaction to this is going to be curious. Does she read the letter and take the words to heart, or will she see it as an act of betrayal? To my surprise, there's a world where the DoA x Pride ship might actually happen. I genuinely thought it was doomed from the start, but after this...

The Mansus reflects the Wake. If Harmony can influence the Wake, then Harmony can influence the Mansus itself.

I think, with all of this, I'm very curious about how the final act will go. I know All-In is expected to be some big battle or a dangerous expedition or an extremely difficult challenge, but what if it's not? What if it's a simple choice? Velvet obtains the blood, opens the door to reach deeper into the Mansus, is presented with whatever is left of the Forge of Days and the Sun-in-Splendour, and then is told she has to choose:

The Glory, or her family? "Winning" the quest and achieving power, or "losing" the quest and achieving happiness?

 

[DelightedOne]

The Glory, or her family? "Winning" the quest and achieving power, or "losing" the quest and achieving happiness?

Click to shrink...

Isn't that what happens in the game when you have a relationship with a follower? The ascension ritual takes them and if you don't provide Passion to give up your ascension they die.

 

[Pittauro]

We got wonderful snake lore and potential reflection info about what might be of Pride, but this is all we are talking about about.

Click to shrink...

wait, what's that about Pride? Is this about how Parsharka had descendants and a lover? I think it's implied she was NOT a Long or Name, so not an Immortal. Either that or the Crime of the Sky doesn't apply in this world.

And Rarity's...

Actually, the less said about Rarity, the better.

Click to shrink...

no please I'd like to hear more about Rarity!

I think, with all of this, I'm very curious about how the final act will go. I know All-In is expected to be some big battle or a dangerous expedition or an extremely difficult challenge, but what if it's not? What if it's a simple choice? Velvet obtains the blood, opens the door to reach deeper into the Mansus, is presented with whatever is left of the Forge of Days and the Sun-in-Splendour, and then is told she has to choose:

The Glory, or her family? "Winning" the quest and achieving power, or "losing" the quest and achieving happiness?

Click to shrink...

well, there's still the matter of the Worms. any kind of "losing" would have to include a way to keep them away.

I suppose she might do something like giving up on the Glory in favour of someone she trusts. But who'd that be? I suppose maybe Jade? but could we even do that when she has never crossed the Blank Door?

I suppose she could offer the Glory to Baldomare...

 

[Maer]

[x] Alright, WHERE is Stormchaser? (Look for your dear beloved)

[x] This place has a library. Go take a look.

[x] What is this "cellphone" all the kids are talking about? Why do you have one? And what is this "Internet" thing?

Either Love, Knowledge, and better awareness of technology, or…

[X] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides. Or rather, someone. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

Provide a change. Right now, Twilight's situation is literally hopeless. This way, we at LEAST save one of them. The closeness to Harmony and the complete family gives Pony!Twilight at least a CHANCE of recovery, not to mention the more advanced technology and science of this world might interest her as a magical alternative since she's already been forced to abandon all magic in her life.

Then there's the chance at modern therapy being able to help her.

Overall, this gives her options and changes the situation. And it doesn't doom Human!Twilight to certain insanity/madness of KNOWING, but being beyond the reach of all magic.

It's the best possible option, and also gives is an additional Confidante for the purposes of action economy. Overall… it's the only option I can choose with any level of a sound mind.

 

[Greymere]

I knew I should have just scrapped Twilight as an option altogether

Click to shrink...

I kind of wish you had, tbh. Not a huge fan of the Twilight Drama being dragged out of the closet when its supposed to be kind of done and over with, at least in terms of direct interactions.

 

[des-pair-2]

I suppose she might do something like giving up on the Glory in favour of someone she trusts. But who'd that be? I suppose maybe Jade? but could we even do that when she has never crossed the Blank Door?

I suppose she could offer the Glory to Baldomare...

Click to shrink...

Or Selene. I can't find anyone else that could be trusted with the power more.

 

[spiderhellian]

My grumbling may be exaggerated, but goodness.

I'm so... Just very...
Ax! Pasharka! The hype and the steam and the uncertainty of how Ax will react to the diary! To being freed! To the whole everything?! What to do with the key that only opens afterwards too... Will it be consumed? Will it be broken? Will Ax believe Velvet? What will be asked. What will the votes be?!

Lantern noises of something resembling Sympathy from Baldomare! Scoffing of betrayal of ones nature by Biedde! Will Ax try and vent her frustration and anger and sadness by trying to murder Our Lady?

So many questions! So much that could yet be!

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I cannot wait to see how the return goes down. However it goes down. So so so much tension that's been out there for as long as we've known DoA, all coming to a release!

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

Or Selene. I can't find anyone else that could be trusted with the power more.

Click to shrink...

I wonder if Selene would be able to ascend on her own, or if the twin nature of her being means that if she ascends, Celestia does as well.

 

[Nevermort]

I kind of wish you had, tbh. Not a huge fan of the Twilight Drama being dragged out of the closet when its supposed to be kind of done and over with, at least in terms of direct interactions.

Click to shrink...

But it was not done. QM himself said that he still had plans for Twilight. I don't believe that Twiligh would lie in her Oak library bed till the quest end. Her plotline is active and nearing its conclusion too.

And you know, I think Celestia in Velvet's place would have done the swap. She has or at least had blind faith in Harmony to the point that she used Elements of Magic on her own sister, waited thousand years for the predicted time, and when time came left everything in the hoofs of new element of magic.

If she went to Harmony world, found conventionally placed Twilight replacement eager to leave said world, all the while pony Twilight was in urgent need of help Celestia was not able to provide, I suspect she would have attributed it to Harmony designs and done the swap in heartbeat. Which is not necessary good thing as Luna suffered thousand year of torture on the moon, all the while Celestia believed her being more or less fine. I wanted to say that Celestia at least would have spoken to pony Twilight beforehand, but she did not told Twilight about Nightmare Moon, so in this situation similar too.

It is not so different from sealing on the Moon Luna went through, so I guess this is how Harmony route looks like.

Or we can go Wolf way. WolfTwilight can't turn against us if we are on the same side. Talk more with Soft. Wait for Twilight to snap. Have regrettable action at the ready. Fourth strain supposed to give us some degree of understanding, see if more actions required. Do the ascension and deal with Wolf by Velvet taking Wound on herself. Mix Glory and Mother of Wolves endings into Mother of Glorious Wolves ending. As long as it does not involve dozing the lights and still gives us Wolf Sons and Daughters it is clearly the best possible ending.

What I wanted to say is that there is no third route. Not doing anything is still Wolf route just with less preparation.

 

[Spacemurica]

[X] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides. Or rather, someone. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

Fuck it, we ball.

 

[DelightedOne]

It is not so different from sealing on the Moon Luna went through, so I guess this is how Harmony route looks like.

Click to shrink...

To be fair, the Elements do the will of the bearers and Celestia was working with very limited information. She thought Luna had snapped instead of being possessed.

I think Harmony also didn't like that, considering the Elements turned to stone(and Magic straight up disappeared).

 

[Sveta08]

wait, what's that about Pride? Is this about how Parsharka had descendants and a lover? I think it's implied she was NOT a Long or Name, so not an Immortal. Either that or the Crime of the Sky doesn't apply in this world.

Click to shrink...

Reflections!

This is a distorted mirror of the world. Looking back at The Husband , his story of how he met Parshaka, how he reacted, what he did and wanted to do.
Looks an awful lot like how Pride reacted.

 

[Pittauro]

But it was not done. QM himself said that he still had plans for Twilight. I don't believe that Twiligh would lie in her Oak library bed till the quest end. Her plotline is active and nearing its conclusion too.

And you know, I think Celestia in Velvet's place would have done the swap. She has or at least had blind faith in Harmony to the point that she used Elements of Magic on her own sister, waited thousand years for the predicted time, and when time came left everything in the hoofs of new element of magic.

Click to shrink...

blind faith, or desperation?

Celestia had no other course of action available to stop Luna in the past, and get her back in the present.

Nightmare Moon is usually depicted as "stronger" than Celestia, and Celestia was likely hoping the elements would fix her rather than banish her.

and once she got back... well, SHE couldn't use the elements, so hoping Twilight could use them (and she'd likely recognize her cutie mark as being the same one on the tree!) was her best option.

If she went to Harmony world, found conventionally placed Twilight replacement eager to leave said world, all the while pony Twilight was in urgent need of help Celestia was not able to provide, I suspect she would have attributed it to Harmony designs and done the swap in heartbeat. Which is not necessary good thing as Luna suffered thousand year of torture on the moon, all the while Celestia believed her being more or less fine. I wanted to say that Celestia at least would have spoken to pony Twilight beforehand, but she did not told Twilight about Nightmare Moon, so in this situation similar too.

It is not so different from sealing on the Moon Luna went through, so I guess this is how Harmony route looks like.

Click to shrink...

I very much doubt Celestia would kidnap and chuck her student in a different world just like that. Not NORMAL Celestia, at least.

CURRENT Celestia... maybe.

 

[Nevermort]

To be fair, the Elements do the will of the bearers and Celestia was working with very limited information. She thought Luna had snapped instead of being possessed.

I think Harmony also didn't like that, considering the Elements turned to stone(and Magic straight up disappeared).

Click to shrink...

In show Harmony demonstrated multiple ways it affect its targets – turning them to stone, sending on Moon, dedemonizing (Sunset case) and so on. I am assuming that Elements stopped working because Celestia used them wrong, but there is also no indication that sealing of Luna was unexpected outcome. Perhaps if Celestia was able to provide more energy to it, they would have done the whole purification thing and would not needed to resort to sealing. Also when Luna returned it sealed her memories so it know what it have done at least.

So depending on its level of control over Mirror world Harmony may decide to help Twilight, or may not. If anything goes wrong it always can blast her with friendship laser and seal her memories so there is that. I would assume that having functional Elements assembled is more crucial for Harmony, so approach would be to send in replacement Twilight, make her new element of magic, then maybe repair pony Twilight by blasting her with laser if she becomes relevant again.

I very much doubt Celestia would kidnap and chuck her student in a different world just like that. Not NORMAL Celestia, at least.

CURRENT Celestia... maybe.

Click to shrink...

She send Twilight to Ponvile against Nighmare Moon, without any warning to her, all the while dismissing Twilight own concerns about corresponding prophesy. It is not that different.
And she had no problems sending Twilight alone into the mirror world later too. Spike I think volunteered himself.

Celestia either had abundance of faith in Harmony or evil. I think it is the first but you are free to argue otherwise

 

[DelightedOne]

but there is also no indication that sealing of Luna was unexpected outcome

Click to shrink...

Oh no, she dedinitely wanted to seal Luna(I should have been more specific on that) but she genuinely thought that was the best option considering an Alicorn suffering from a mental breakdown and the perceived betrayal.

She send Twilight to Ponvile against Nighmare Moon, without any warning to her, all the while dismissing Twilight own concerns about corresponding prophesy. It is not that different.
And she had no problems sending Twilight alone into the mirror world later too. Spike I think volunteered himself.

Click to shrink...

Wasn't that because she knew Twilight would not believe she needed to make friends(Twilight says that herself) to defeat Nightmare Moon? So she tried to guide her instead of outright saying it and have her ignore the advice altogether.

Yeah, but she thought Twilight would still be her Alicorn self(remember she never crossed the mirror so she didn't know about the transformation into a human) instead of a defenseless teenage girl. There was also the whole "don't create chaos ij another world" thing that was possibly an excuse to not have two sets of human Elements in the movie and confuse the target audience(kids).

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

wait, what's that about Pride? Is this about how Parsharka had descendants and a lover? I think it's implied she was NOT a Long or Name, so not an Immortal. Either that or the Crime of the Sky doesn't apply in this world.

Click to shrink...

She only had normal human kids, their are probably ways to do this.

But it was not done. QM himself said that he still had plans for Twilight. I don't believe that Twiligh would lie in her Oak library bed till the quest end. Her plotline is active and nearing its conclusion too.

Click to shrink...

GM said that Velvet will have nothing to do with Twilight anymore. So at best she becomes Celestias personal Inquisitor, with the personal task of taking down Velvet, at worse she embraces the Wolf.

 

[Arrkhon]

Personally while I don't really want to exchange Twilight I wouldn't mind us losing most of our remaining morals, it will be way easier to finally start befriending Merinette for real without them and maybe grab another Regrettable Action but man, we really don't need these extra plot threads from the swap at this point

 

[Sveta08]

Personally while I don't really want to exchange Twilight I wouldn't mind us losing most of our remaining morals

Click to shrink...

That's a shame. I do have qualms with that.

 

[Limabot]

That's a shame. I do have qualms with that.

Click to shrink...

While I could be potentially convinced to go for the cannibalism thing (though only if we're in an emergency), I agree that I don't want Velvet's mortals to erode that much further than they've already have. If nothing else, I think the story would lose a lot of its impact if morality stopped mattering and the quest devolved into a string of endless petty opportunism.

 

[Rafuki22]

Personally while I don't really want to exchange Twilight I wouldn't mind us losing most of our remaining morals,

Click to shrink...

I do have them, despite my callouness, there is just no secret third better option in this case.

Celestia either had abundance of faith in Harmony or evil. I think it is the first but you are free to argue otherwise

Click to shrink...

Remember that Celestia ocasionally has visions of the future and that she was the one to free Nightmare Moon, in canon atleast.