With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy are we still talking about this?

 

No.

Not exactly. Creating a 'child' and an 'adult' was how Oggar made her an adult in accordance with her request.

We're on QQ now. Live a little.

 

Because people are wrong, on the Internet.

 

Q Ranger is the equivalent of Major Force, a fellow Quantum powered individual to Captain Atom.

And one of the powers of a quantum powered being is to create, destroy, or manipulate energy.

Constructs are made out of energy.

I don't remember a quantum individual messing with constructs directly, but Captain Atom once beat up Nekron by absorbing his death energies and smacking him in the face with his own energy.

That was before Blackest Night, of course, can't sell a major crossover based on Captain Atom bitch slapping Nekron.

 

To break it down, I suppose it comes down to this:

Some people value the word of the law itself, and essentially use it as a moral code. To them, pedophilia would be having sex with anyone under 18 (or whatever the local age of consent is), and aside from intentional exceptions like the Romeo and Juliet clause, don't really care about the details beyond that. It's wrong because its against the law.


But some other people consider maturity to be the key detail. A relationship with someone who isn't mature enough, and/or a relationship with a huge difference in maturity, can result in the more mature partner manipulating the less mature one, or the less mature one instinctively obeying the more mature one. This interferes with consent, and that's a big no-no.

In this situation, it is theoretically possible for someone younger than 18 to be sufficiently mature, but I've never heard of any case of this happening in the real world. There are situations where a savant can handle many of the things a adult can but at a younger age, but in every example I've heard of, they're still emotionally immature and mature more-or-less at the same rate.

It is, however, fairly common for adults to be immature to a moderate or severe degree, due to a abnormally slow rate of development, or even outright mental ailments. In this case, those who defer to the law would say that relations are okay, but those who judge it by emotional maturity would not. And even for normal adults, some people argue that 18 is still too young; studies have shown that mental development continues into the 20s.


In the specific captain marvel case, both schools of thought would probably disagree with it. 'Lawists' would say that it was paedophilia because she's under 18, plain and simple, dingdong bingbong lock him up and throw away the key.

'Maturists' would probably disagree with it, though it depends on the details of solomon's wisdom. But from what people have said, it doesn't really grant emotional maturity/experience, so she still more-or-less has the maturity of a child and dingdong bingbong lock him up and throw away the key.

For both of these, the transformation doesn't really matter all that much. Lots of people would be squicked by the idea of having relations with someone who was somehow emotionally competent but physically young, but it doesn't make much sense to say it's morally wrong to have sex with someone because of what shape they are.

 

Honestly, the only argument I can see that actually works in this case and doesn’t make Owlman and the writers pedophiles, is that her being made into an adult through magic also caused her to mentally mature. We also don’t have any examples of how Earth -14 Solomon’s wisdom works, so it might make people more mentally mature. It might also give the equivalent of years of experience, or years of memories, similar to Hawkman/woman making one mentally older. Heck, for all we know, Earth -14 people become mentally mature at 14. Or we might be going by Japanese rules, where high schoolers are considered mentally mature enough. Those are literally the only cases where he isn’t a pediphile. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was though.

 

OK, I am trying to understand the concept of the positive and negative universes.

I understand there is a "Universal constant" that they use for "Standard Notation" (like how ST:TNG used Worf's RNA, that had an unusual quantum signature, to figure out what universe he belonged to). Is OL Paul going to learn how to scan for it? Enough universes know what the constant is so it must be observable to most post-industrial/pre-spaceage civilizations.

Are the positive universes normal matter and negative anti-matter? For instance, could he head over to Qward? (a bad idea, but I am trying to understand how this works) Or better, Earth-positive 14 to get reinforcements.

I just really hope (hehe) that OL gets a new Ring out of this adventure. Koriand'r would definitely look better in a Blue uniform, she is just so hopeful (and you said it before, she would be stronger with hope). OR, Blue Lantern Paul somehow ends up coming to live permanently on 16, unless there is a problem where he blows up if in a parallel universe for to long like on Stargate SG-1
OL could use a Yellow ring in his future fight with Sinestro.

Ohhh, so many interesting possibilities.

 

Imagine, if you would, a bunch of coins on a strip of tape. The strip of tape represents the DC multiverse.

Each coin represents a numbered universe. Heads is the normal universe, tails is the anti-matter universe.

The coin in the middle of the strip of tape is universe zero. The positive universes are on one side. The negative universes are on the other. Beyond the fact that they're all part of the same multiverse and therefore carry some significant commonalities, there's not a whole lot of specific relationships between them. The ones on the negative side developed in one way, the ones on the positive side developed a different way, but up to now there's not been any established relationship between e.g. universe -14 and universe +14.

 

Weren’t the negative universes invented in New 52 though? With the whole Barbados thing? That is not being used in this fic? I was under the impression blue Paul was from + 14?

 

No, Zoat named his universe Earth negative 14 for some reason.

Perhaps, like Coda surmised above, Zoat intended his cosmology so that each universe has an anti-matter double.

But yes, you are right, DC didn't have negative universes until the dark multiverse, because one thing DC has been consistent is that each multiverse only including one anti-matter universe.

I recently read a comic that was a plot point. AM is jealous that the Monitor got an infinite amount of universes to play with, while AM got one measly universe.

 

OK, so there is only one antimatter universe. I guess that explains why Renegade OL did not meet the same Weaponeer in his antimatter story-arc. (I still am assuming that somehow Paragon and Renegade are both canon to the story because of the multiverse theory. Not sure why they are both Earth-16 though........... but there is an OL-16 at the end of time trying to save his timeline so really anything is possible.)

Wait, that means all OL has to do is go to the Antimatter universe and use the Guardians pad near Oa to get home. I assume they have some type of comm unit there................. I might be giving the Guardians to much credit.

 

They’re not literal gods like the anti monitor is. They can’t build anything made of matter in the antimatter universe, and even if they could, the AM could use it to get in to the matter universes.

 

Weaponers don’t come from the AM universe. Grayven and OL met the same people when they went there recruiting. More than that, they can’t get into the AM universe, or the AM could get out.
Time Trapper Paul is from a pocket universe adjacent to OL’s universe 16 (or something, it’s an alternate version of universe 16 that never came to pass), created by universe 16 Vandal Savage time traveling to create it. I do not think Time Trapper OL seems to necessarily be meta-present (is that the right term for being able to act in all universes at once?), and he might only be able to access one universe, though Red Queen Jade is. The mechanics of Grayven’s universe also being universe 16 have not been explained yet.

 

Zoat hasn't explained it but hypertime from DC canon does, so until something contradicts it that's the theory I'm going with.

Hypertime is alternate universes of the "every possible outcome comes to pass" variety.

So in hypertime, one could go to an Earth 16 where Robin was born Ricarda Grayson, daughter of the Flying Graysons, or Batman looked out his window for inspiration and saw nothing, becoming Open Window Man! Or where Miss Martian is actually a Spider-Martian who is trying hard not to see people as Happy Meals with legs, or everyone on the Team is green because humanity evolved from shrubbery, etc, etc.

Hypertime universes aren't constant though, they can be reabsorbed.

The universe where Superman had a ham sandwich instead of a turkey sandwich for lunch will only exist for as long as it matters, when (or if) the two universes become identical, they become one universe again.

So in DC not only is there a multiple choice future, there's a multiple choice past.

 

I’ve always viewed ‘incubus’ and ‘succubus’ as being like ‘carnivore’ — they describe a mechanism for acquiring sustenance and a very rough outline of a hunting pattern, rather than an actual species.

While it’s possible that comic book worlds have different laws about religions, they can’t be too different from our USA without producing unrecognizable results. One religion’s angels are often a competing or hostile religion’s demons. For example, there’s some evidence that the giants that served as the Norse pantheon’s evil monsters were the pantheon worshipped by the people the Norse fought when migrating into those lands. Many Catholic devils are the actual gods of other religions.

So any law defining a religion’s mythological figures to be illegal is establishing a state-endorsed opposing religion. And as a result, if the laws on freedom of religion is similar, laws forbidding contact with demons are one constitutional challenge away from being struck down.

It’s odd that he cares about some laws but not others. The mind control by someone acting as law enforcement — aka a vigilante — is more illegal than statutory rape.

 

Including Constantine's nemesis- Nergal. DC revealed that he was indeed the Mesopotamian deity, which either gives him an odd resume or a retcon of his previous origin.

Nergal had also been revealed to be a demonized damned soul, so if it's not a retcon than Nergal died, turned into a demon, and was worshipped as a god over 4000 years ago.

Constantine also did something weirder with Jack the Ripper, revealing that demon was a demonized damned soul, a demonized damned soul from Atlantis. The Atlantis that sank at least 8 thousand years before Christ was born and has its own religion.

 

I can't speak confidently for what OL thinks, but my interpretation is that everyone has their own unique moral code which dictates what they think is right and wrong, and it may, or may not, refer to anything external (rules of law, religion, what other people believe, etc).

So OL might be thinking something along the lines of "You're already very evil by my book, but doing anything to you that is obviously contrary to the local law would have unpleasant consequences for me and would spit in the face of the people around me. Here's this major law you broke, now go rot in jail."

It certainly seems like a enlightened orange way to understand the law. But a consequence is that you don't really care that much if you break it and there aren't consequences. He basically made Jade's crimes vanish, and I don't know what in the world the Citadelian situation would be if it happened in U.S. jurisdiction, but I expect that more than a few lawyers would have a brain aneurysm as soon as they heard about it. A little debatably-legal mind control is nothing.

 

I wonder if Zorina took no for an answer when she proposed. My other guess is that Capo Scott's lying and the two are on Earth 16 stealing from the Team and the Justice League.

 

Oh yeah, this is going to go over great.

 

Well, this is is awkward for OL and Zatanna.

 

Add in

beside

Hahahahahaha.

 

Thank you, corrected.

 

...you know, the more I hear about this sidestory, the more I kind of wish it was the main story really.

Paul's Power Ring Blue shenanigans just seem so much more interesting that where we've been at in the mains timeline for a while now.

 

Hear that? That's the sound of Paul's excuse blowing up in the most spectacular way possible.

 

i have the opposite reaction

bleh on Renegade, Red/Blue/other color, other alt-verse chapter

i'm here for the regular orange juice one, not the spicy red hot pepper meme of red color, or the TOTALLY RADICAL blueberry color or any other color or the other SUPER GODLY orange that is all the rage with the kid

inset gagging noise

 

No, Zorina is very different from Zatanna, and Zatanna knows this. His excuse will hold up just fine.

 

Ah, good old mad science labs, with a bit of wizard's workshop thrown in. Someone understands atmosphere.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

...a burn scar slash across his right cheek and...

Ooh, tingly.

Wow, the Constantine hero complex got turned up in this one, didn't it?

Not sure if intentional, but 'outta' might fit better if not.

An airlock? Good safety practices.

...and Mister Scott leads the way along an adjacent corridor.

Olympia has no patience for politics, does she? One interesting point of difference to Diana.

What, no imposing desk? Guess he's going for the 'stern grandfather' type of Intimidation via Furnishing.

Huh, maybe Wilson isn't quite the hero he uses as a political image. Then again, this is Deathstroke.

"But I don't know if we can keep a lid on things for that long.
(Flows a bit better this way. Could fit as his style of speech otherwise?)

Hoo boy. This is gonna get fun.

...What?

Yeah, what they said!

Oh, this is going to end up as 'pretend to be a married couple to keep up the disguise' thing, isn't it? Shenanigans incoming!

 

Seems the universe(s) loves to make Paul's and Zatanna's relationship constantly awkward.

 

Well now that Zoat has moved over to QQ this story has many more directions that it can go then it would have back on SV. I don't know what is going to happen. Back on SV any relationship between them would have been impossible.