With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

I'm not sure about Ancient Greek, but modern Greek's word for extraterrestrials is wholly Greek and wholly based on root words that also existed in Ancient Greek. It's εξωγήινοι (pronounced exoghi'ini) and comes from "outside" and "earthen". In other words it literally means extraterrestrials without having any Latin loan words.

 

You'd think the brand and pained voice would make him think differently.

 

I'm guessing that all the Martians did the telepathic equivalent of a Big What when he said that Karmang was White. Hopefully this will lead to a peaceful transition to a more egalitarian system on Mars.

 

' species '

 

*Heavy blaster fire, eldritch screaming, and explosions are heard in the distance*

 

I can't bring up real world examples because of forum rules, but I don't think ingrained caste systems works that way.

 

'with her'

Zheself is always opened.

maybe 'a sign'

I'm reminded of this Harry Potter one shot in which he traveled back to the past to learn from the Founders and came back thinking that he'll dazzle everyone with his knowledge, only to fail because while he may have become a master during the time of the Founders, the wizards of the modern day had developed new and more advanced spells, charms, potions etc, and the knowledge he has is outdated.

This isn't the Nasu universe where people from the past knew more about magic than modern mages.

 

I did say "Hopefully this will lead to a peaceful transition". I fully expect the peaceful transition to happen after a massive upheaval. At least this way there is a chance that things won't be quite as violent as what happened in the Renegade timeline.

 

Yeah but the naysayers can always say it's a human trick. Paul is close friends with a White, M'gann, he wants the color division to be resolved because all Martians are heh, the same. He brought a human necromancer.

 

The Red Martian used magic when they saw the shade. They presumably know ways to detect if this was a trick. As such, they know that he is who he says he is, and that what he says is the truth.

 

I'm leaning more towards more violence, but probably not as much as that of the renegade side.

Sadly, you may be right.

 

I imagine that Martian telepathy would naturally dissuade them from lying. Would it occur to them to question whether or not this alien necromancer was pulling one over on them?

 

He might know that, but others may still not want to believe it and just make excuses for why it isn't true.

They could say that the Priests unfamiliarity with human magic made his conclusion that it's H'ronmeer seem suspicious.

Hell some of them may say that H'ronmeer is going against the orders of his master for some reason.

Bigots aren't exactly all that prone to reason.

 

True. However, this may be an unprecedented opportunity for Karmang to show himself now that the truth has been made clear. Or be an opportunity for him to do a decapitation attack on the Reds. Either way, this is all coming to a head very soon.

 

I look forward to the fallout of this reveal, but sometimes I feel like this storyline's impact would be stronger if the Renegade version wasn't earlier. I don't have a definite opinion on it but I wonder what the story would be like if they were reversed.

I don't know, you have stuff like the Deathly Hallows that don't seem to be matched by any modern magical advancement, plus no one appears able to replicate the Philosopher's Stone. That one-shot's premise seems logical, but I think the rate of magical advancement in canon is open to interpretation, just because of how vague things are.
I do appreciate Zoat's subversion of 'ancient=superior' though.

 

Thank you, corrected,

No, I use that for species who don't have two-sex reproduction, and Martians do.

No, that's fine.

People from the past who survived to the modern age probably do, but that's because they're the top fraction of a percent.

 

Well this is just neat.

 

Themselves is the correct word. Google says "zheself" isn't a word, and using "they/them" is considered genderless anyway, and appropriate to use when discussing beings in plural where gender is unknown.

 

The good old delayed comeback. Too late to be useful without being a non-sequitor...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

You expect her to bother looking out for the Invisible Jet? Which is kind of, you know.. Invisible? And I find it unlikely any aircraft would have gotten anywhere near flyover distance of Themyscira thanks to the wards... You know, having a whale-sized (and likely whale-shaped) thing flying nearby is bound to trigger the ducking reflex, no matter how far away.

At least they aren't wandering about with rifles and whips?

It says so much about OL that local law enforcement get about as much comment as furniture...

I mean, I doubt Natasa is wearing any kind of fancy robes. Maybe a black mantle over regular clothes? Hardly the stereotypical necromancer look... You know, what would a Martian Necromancer stereotype be like, I wonder?

I wonder, do Martians really grok the differences in human cultures? I mean, some of their communities may have slight differences, but Mars is largely a monoculture...

Different culture, different mentality, different magic. And the extra hands do make it a lot easier to weave magical sigils...

Yeah, that'll get quite the reaction...

...Just not the obvious physical one, of course. I bet he had to hold back a mental **What?**

Indeed. But would ancient sorcerers feel the need to use them? After all, most seeking them would believe they'd use such spells to defend themselves... Who'd think they'd go without? Headology: not just for Witches!

Oh, my. Someone who did know Karmang, I see? At least her trip wasn't entirely wasted.

I bet if they had pseudopod tendrils or tentacles attached to the fingers, they could weave entire glyphs using only their flesh... The alternative is that they use finger-stances ala Naruto...

Well, there's a name to live with. Bet he got a few chuckles from his companions over the years... Unless they had equally odd names.

Oh, my. That's a bomb. If the locals actually believe it is H'ronmeer, this is going to be a major shake-up!

With excitement? With shock? With telepathic contact? Hmm... Could a living Martian make contact with the mind of a ghost? Or does the lack of a physical brain make for too large an obstacle?

A nice turnaround of the 'Ancient mages knew so much that we have lost' trope. I bet a lot of spells have changed over the eons, just from a safety angle. No 'cast from hit points' rubbish these days!

Oh, boy, here we go...

That is an interesting question, really. Why do Martians have a 'base' form as such? Does using a form other than their default take a toll on their power? A sort of metamorphic upkeep? I wonder what Mars' Red has to say on the matter...

Heh. And that alone is telling. 'Ignorant of colour identity'? There's another bomb.

But wait, there's more bombs to drop, and this one's a doozie!

Those words alone would shake Mars up...

...But these will set it on fire. And they will, because there's a lot of people around to hear that. And no sooner will they register what was said then it'll be passed on to others. "Hey, I just heard the ghost of H'ronmeer say Karmang the Good was a White!" Yeah, that statement will be heard on the other side of Mars before this scene will be done...

Yep. They're taking it in, and some will already be passing it on. Just that aura of shock is telling.

I suspect, if the Sorceror wasn't flying, he would have collapsed on his ass... And will no doubt want to learn necromancy just to get to talk to H'ronmeer and others again...

Give them a moment to drink in that little reveal, OL. Their world has literally just been flipped over.

OL might have to wait while the world takes in the news... No way will this stay quiet, no matter how much the Reds try to cover it up.

You know that saying about rumours being halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on? This time, the Truth got a headstart! This could trigger an uprising that makes the average Martian race riot look like toddlers slap-fighting... And the Hyperclan are no doubt going to take advantage of it.

 

I wonder if we'll find out the exact origins of anti-Whiteness and formalization of the caste system in this episode; Natasa or another necromancer could feasibly summon more and more recent shades and thus gather information on changing attitudes and social values. Honestly given the existence of telepathic knowledge transfer that would presumably be used between generations, there being anything like lost knowledge seems unlikely to me, except by deliberate obfuscation and censorship.

 

Well Steve Trevor came to Themyscira from a plane in most versions, so maybe she has seen some.

Well not the physical kind.

The telepathic kind is a different matter.

I think they mentioned that they don't really have a necromantic tradition, at least not in the modern day.

 

That Red Priest was obviously paid by the human! He was a shapeshifted White all along! He was well meaning but deceived! And even if we beleive that, we shouldn't rush things. The old order isn't really that bad.

Rapid change would only mean Chaos, we need to discuss things.

Why, some of my best friends are White and they all told me they are happy.

 

Modern wizard society in the Harry Potter books, at the very least, knew enough about thaumatology that even people who hadn't even graduated Hogwarts could invent new spells/potions.

Snape invented new spells while he was a student, it's implied Hermione did the same, and the twins sold things they invented in their joke shop.

So magic is a science they understand well enough that making new spells seems to be analogous to writing a new computer program in terms of achievement.

Which suggests progress not regression, with new spells constantly being invented, advancing the state of the art.

Obviously not all new spells are shared, hence why not everyone has a philosopher's stone, so it would seem some spells were lost to the ravages of time.

 

If they believe that the shade is who he claims to be then, or even if he's just a random shade they dug up to claim what they want to claim, they just proved that talking to the dead is possible on Mars. Sorcerers would instantly go work on this because it instantly becomes the cool new thing, and they will have some success eventually, I mean knowing that is possible is half the issue sometimes.

 

That's it, that's the show. Game. Fic. $MEDIA_TYPE.

 

Right. Irl alchemists often kept their records in code that nobody could read... including modern historians wanting to learn about the early days of chemistry.
Another reason they might lose some things without constantly trending backwards is extinction. Apparently, there was once a plant that could be used as a contraceptive which the Romans found out about and used. They used all of it, in fact and if something like that were to happen in their world, the potions or whatever that the organism was used for would be impossible to make until and unless someone found an alternative.

 

Uhhhhh... while I'm generally of the mind that Harry Potter world building functions best when you don't think about it too hard we do see incremental increases via the Nimbus 2000 racing broom vs the Nimbus 2001s that Malfoy buys his way on the Slytherin team with.

 

Feels a little odd there. The way its written, and so close together. Saying that he knew his master didn't know much more than he taught, death magics wasn't his study, then admitting his master could have known more than he taught.
Surprised she didn't comment on the inconsistency there. Or that he could have shielded himself in death if his student doesn't know.?

 

yeah I can already tell if Paul runs into Thessaly neither one is going to be really happy about the meeting.

Anyone who is both powerful immortal magic and can be a body double for Taylor Hebert is someone best avoided.