With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Nabu hurt someone who was his. The demons did not.

 

Mr Zoat, after Zatanna was affected by the Star Sapphire, Paul made sure to tell Jade about it. Will we see him do so again because of the black kryptonite incident, only to have Jade not be surprised this time either? Maybe she can crack a joke about how often this happens to Paul?

 

Radix ‘Consenting’ in the eyes of someone Lawful Neutral and lower.

 

But he doesnt need to reach out alone. He pulls all sorts of strings to make stuff happen. It would mot be that hard to get other people there to help Kara build a support network. It's not like the League or Paul's friends are uncaring even if they domt go as hard.

If Paul pushed them, it couls help. I mean it is what he did to get Diana helping Conner.

Surely Dinah, M'Gann, Diana, or any number of other people he knows could help? They are very empathic. And certainly more than Paul, who couldn't even notice how he keeps getting teenaged girls dependent on him.

Why isnt he getting Clark involved? Or introduce her to Kori or some other aliens who could give a change of pace?

 

Fair point. Maybe we'll see just that in the future. For now, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

In what way was it not for Zatanna? She was well aware of the risks. She chose to go with it anyways because she wanted the power.

Nabu isnt some car you take out of the garage because you dont want to walk. They already used him as an emergency button against the Injustice League. The fact that they keep using him for his power while leaving him on a shelf is not a good thing.

She gave herself up willingly. Part of lawful good is that you hold up the spirit of your agreement and dont try to screw the other side over. Nabu was upfront about what he wanted.

As for Zatara, its not like Nabu took Zatanna to leverage him. Zatara didnt want her to pay the price. So he paid it instead. It's not like he even pressured Zatara. Hr had to be convinced to the deal. They didnt need to do it right away either. It's not like there was a harm to waiting a few days to talk it out with Fate.

There was plenty of room to negotiate with Fate. They didnt seriously try.

 

Radix What about Nabu keeping someone’s body after they put him on to save lives, and justifying it as “They knew the risks. If they didn’t want to be enslaved they should have just let things go to hell around them/let his daughter be enslaved instead.” doesn’t sound like something a Devil would say?

 

You literally just described it as them putting him on as if he was an object. Go sit on the shelf alone until we decide we need you. That sounds like what you said he is doing that is wrong.

Plus yeah, they should have let things go worse. After all, someone earlier in the thread said that they should experience growing pains to defend the earth. That is the price. If you want Nabu's help, you pay his price. That is how it all works.

Especially because he needs to do proactive work. If they gave him a host, he would have been able to catch those evil wizards far earlier.

 

You appear to be reaching to drag the worst possible interpretation of me saying “put on” about somebody who is a helmet. I’d prefer you not.

I’m sorry I must be failing my empathy check because to me it sounds like you’re saying that Superheroes should have let a situation escalate to godawful levels and endanger innocent lives because they didn’t want to risk their own life and so they can learn from the experience. Surely you aren’t saying that and I’m just being dumb right?

 

So just to be clear, you think heroes should be willing to sacrifice their lives for the greater good? And yet you think that they shouldnt honor their agreement to Nabu that saves lives?

Like Zatanna is already generally an adult. It is not like he is missing her formative years.

Nabu seemed pretty reasonable. He noted the increase in magical threats at the tower. But he aceeded to let go as long as they agreed to find a host so he could go active again. That didnt. Instead they put him on a shelf until they needed him. And again he saved their asses. And again he let it go. And then they abuse him again to do things for them. So why shouldnt he be the one going around and actually saving the day? Especially since him being active actually saves lives compared to the reverse.

Nabu put up with 50 years of isolation. He saved lives. Him wanting to be active isnt just him wanting to improve his personal situation. Him being inactive endangers the world. Him sitting on tbe shelf is what enabled Roanoke.

 

I consider the ability to sacrifice oneself for others an essential part of being a hero. I don’ take that to mean we should let a sacrifice for the greater good persist when we could undo the sacrifice bit by offing the cunt entirely responsible for the sacrifice part existing at all.

Here’s what I think is the difference between us. I consider Leonine Contracts to be worth less than nothing, tantamount to a slave collar that i’d rip someone’s leg off for attempting to put me in. You apparently don’t. With that fundamental difference in values I don’t see how this conversation can continue productively.

 

Except that Nabu cant save the day without having a host. So that sacrifice is a necessary part.

And also keep on mind that part of the reason that Nabu is so draconian is because his last host completely screwed him over so hard, and the people on the present seemed poised to do the same thing, regardless of the danger it would cause the world by leaving him on the shelf.

Why would he give time away? They have proven several times not to hold up their end of the deals. They put their own self interest above the world.

And yes Nabu did a lot for the world. Even ignoring his sheer power, he had vast knowledge and experience that goes beyond what Quinn or Renegade Zatara could really do.

 

Nabu is equally responsible for the situation due to his own abuse of prior hosts, and not setting up any sort of legacy system because even if Kent Nelson had been a perfect host he still would have either died of old age or become a lord of order in his own right eventually.

 

Are we talking about the time nabu had the entire planet as his hostages to pressure zatanna or when he had zatanna hostage to pressure zatarra?

 

I really wish we could see that conversation. Can someone make an omake about this please?

That should say 'sharing'.

I'm surprised at how self-aware Batman is, and the fact that, by his own admission, he and Paul are very similar. I hope you change your mind about Batman and Paul having a strained relationship in the future, because this is pretty nice. Also, since Batman's so self-aware and intelligent, he should know beforehand that there are things that they're never going to agree with, but that shouldn't stop their ability to work together.

 

Yeah, the thousands of eyeballs probably had something to do with that.

But Truggs may have figured out how to replicate it, so it would be good to be able to detect it.

Except for the Light.

And whoever sold that supervillain tech to aliens, which was probably the Light.

And the other ones are stranded on a planet with minimal technology.

 

Is that meant to be 2012?

 

Well at least he’s acknowledged it even if it probably won’t result in anything more then him potentially retiring a few years before he did in Batman beyond oh wait life extension medication and tech and magic are probably gonna advance significantly more then normal from all the changes so the odds of him encountering some method of life extension/anti aging that he approves of is significant he could still be Batman for decades or even centuries (or forever however insignificant the chance) beyond what is typically of a Bruce Wayne’s in the multiverse

 

I'll admit I kinda teared up at how much I liked this last chapter.

 

Wait the Reach made H-Dials when was this established?

 

Yeah. That's not a take that I've seen before. I mean, it's possible that we're both misreading it and Paul was using the Reach as an example, but it really looks like the story is saying that the H-Dial is made by the Reach.

 

Paragon knows the Free Lancers probably came to Earth, and that they were in pretty significant contact with the Reach. So it seems fairly credible they'd have an idea of the planet, even if they currently can't do anything about it.

I hope that someone has upgraded satellites etc. to track things like stealth Reach infiltrators though.

Paragon knows there's a Scarab on Earth, right? Even if he doesn't really remember the details from the comics?

 

Hmm... An interesting title. I get the feeling there's going to be something temporal involved here... At any rate, I figured a debrief with Batman would likely be involved, after all that happened last episode. At least everyone involved has had a good night's sleep to work through things.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Great, two young ladies with crushes on OL commiserating over how that lead to them being zapped by mind-altering energies... And I'm surprised Bats is looking over the dial. Then again, it's probably safer here than anywhere else on Earth, given the Light's ability to raid other secure sites

Heh. Memories too great for any mortal kind, eh? On the other hand, you would have been seeing all of humanity in all its glory and horrors. And few people can cope with the latter in its entirety.

...Would go some way to explaining the bizarre variety of some of the forms. Still, I get the feeling the Reach weren't responsible for the dial, they merely made use of it...

Yeah, Batman's probably not the best comparison on that aspect of his work. Ah, good old Bats, always expecting the worst, and being... I won't say pleasantly surprised, he's rarely happy outside of certain circumstances, but... Let's go with 'satisfied' when things go well.

And probably confusing scientists who look into it. "You say these 'urflings' can manifest all manner of strange abilities from exposure to things that should kill them? Not with this genetic makeup! I just can't explain it!"

I'm sure they would. But OL is kind of relying on 'secrecy through obscurity' here... No-one would look twice at a little blue mudball whose dominant species has barely left their own atmosphere. I suppose that's the plan, anyway.

That kind of move would get them travelling through more than a few Guardian-claimed sectors. Even if their ships are sneaky, someone's going to notice and take note.

That is a good point, but really, do you know how hard it is to track a fleet in interstellar space, Bats? Once they're out of light-speed contact (whether visual or sensors) they're going to be hard to spot without near-omniscient tech.

Well, sounds like his concerns are mollified.. for now. Though you know he's just itching to throw this in OL's face the next time an alien fleet turns up...

So it wasn't a local. Not surprising, given the tech involved.

...Huh. They would have a motive to have OL killed. We saw the opportunity. Who knows how long the shooter was waiting around for OL to show his face... But Means?

The usual misfits being well-behaved then? Those not secure in Arkham, Blackgate or Belle Reve...

That is true. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't cause some manner of dismorphia. Like, you don't feel right without the rush of transformation and the strange new form it brings... Certainly, the few we've seen who used it are... Not exactly the most stable people.

Who knows, maybe Hinon would find it entertaining for a couple of minutes? If nothing else, you could gauge how well it works away from Earth, and on non-humans.

...Why do I get the feeling you might regret agreeing in a few minutes, Bruce...

...I won't lie, OL deserved that. Though surely you wouldn't mind having more time to spend with Talia, hmm?

Just don't feel comfortable unless you're on a case, huh? I'm reminded of another great detective. Admittedly, he didn't run around London dressed like a Bat... Just enjoyed some recreational drug use and fiddling with his violin...

Batman for mayor! Or rather, Bruce Wayne for mayor... It would be interesting, see him follow in his father's footsteps with a more philanthropic leadership for Gotham.

And then what would Bruce Wayne be, without the need to be Batman? I suppose he could go in a more 'Brave and the Bold' direction, bringing the 'Hammers of Justice' to the world...

Maybe go dimension-travelling, looking for interesting potential Lanterns. I mean, we do know he eventually goes on a walkabout in about a thousand years' time...

Okay, who are you and what did you do with the real Batman? But seriously, it feels weird to see him so... Self-aware. I guess marriage and eventual fatherhood have him being a bit more introspective...

Hey, you chose to embark on a lifelong crusade to make sure no-one would suffer the way you did. No-one would have faulted you for deciding to live up to your playboy persona, if not for your own determination. Bit of a 'Character is what you are in the dark' moment, really...

And that's an armour-piercing question if ever I heard one.

Indeed. That is... an impressive level of self-actualisation. No wonder the Bat-Dad is so awesome. This is a Batman who knows he could quit, but keeps on because he enjoys it... Not necessarily the horrific parts, but he enjoys the challenge, the mental and physical challenge of, well, being Batman.

Well, whatever will happen to sour their relationship over the years, it didn't start here... Maybe? Ooh, maybe in a few years, OL discovers batman is basically lying to himself for some reason. Maybe after Dick becomes Nightwing, and Jason Todd meets his eventual fate, and Bats chooses to focus on The Job rather than his wife and child (because sooner or later, Talia will get pregnant, surely... Whether Helena, Damien, Bruce Junior or some other offspring.) I could see OL being displeased with that kind of hypocrisy, especially after this scene...

 

He doesn't actually. He tried looking for it, but he misremembered Jaime's name as Jamie, and he never asked Ted about it.

 

Woa, self-aware Batman

 

Probably involving Nazi World Paul.

True, the Batcave is probably one of the safest places on the planet, and Batman is one id the more scientifically and technologically minded League members.

I don't know about that.

They were able to get to Earth in canon, so maybe they're allowed to travel through the universe, but can't conquer people unless they're invite.

She is Batwoman, so he's already spending time with her.

And performing weird experiments.

Some people would have.

I doubt that's going to happen here, since Paul would probably get involved and find Jason and the Joker in short order.

Only if Batman is doing something he says he wants to do but doesn't really want to do.

Bruce's desires may change in the future and Paul may be fine with that.

 

Great update. The one exception to the theory that great fanfiction has to have shit update rates. Loved the chapter.

 

Depends on whether someone writes it or not.

Wait. Do you mean, an omake of him asking Zatanna, or one of Zatanna and Kara having that talk?

Thank you, corrected.

How the heck did I..?

Yes, in the far future as part of their metahuman research program. Not anywhere close to the present day.

 

It actually sounds worse than hell. In hell people don't just get auto-possessed.