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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Because generally by the time I get corrections I'm at work, so I can't update my Word document until I get home. And if I don't make note of the errors I spot, I'll probably forget them.
     
  2. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    She probably did, but that wouldn't matter that much to her since she probably didn't consider her own immortality at that time.
     
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  3. Enochi

    Enochi Having way to much fun with AI.

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    WELL SAID!

    Yeah Celestia has made plenty of mistakes and I'm pretty sure she would agree with most of them. But she is a multi-millennial old being that has been ruling for probably longer then the nation of England has existed. After centuries of watching people die around you with nothing you can do about it I'm sure she is probably more then a little stir-crazy and has difficulty relating to ponies to some degree.
     
  4. Ardy

    Ardy I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    But that doesn't make it irrational for Sunset to hate her for treating her like that. It's an excuse, not a justification.
     
  5. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    In this story, she's been ruling for about 1030 years and is about 1050 years old. In canon, it's really not clear.

    While Celestia clearly had the tools to guide other ponies to become alicorns, the only other alicorn at the start of canon is Cadenza, and her ascension had nothing to do with Celestia. So either she decided not to, or she wasn't very good at it.

    England has existed as a unified polity for about 1100 years.
     
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  6. Xmaster3000

    Xmaster3000 Know what you're doing yet?

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    Woe, friendship be upon ye. :D
    Edit: But yeah, Sunbutt Senior's main problem is that she doesn't have many peers. That is to say; no-one to tell her "no" that she'd listen to.
     
  7. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Experienced.

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  8. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
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  9. The Unaligned Player

    The Unaligned Player Agony that desires to meet Extinction

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    Correct. And by that same token the sincerity of her hurt feelings don’t justify unreasonable expectations.
     
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  10. Ardy

    Ardy I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Reasonable expectations like your mentor who took you away from your family to teach you actually teaching you things?
     
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  11. The Unaligned Player

    The Unaligned Player Agony that desires to meet Extinction

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    Reasonable expectations like not expecting someone to be able to teach you to care about others when power is at the forefront of your mind, and you can’t bear to admit flaws as much as you claim they can’t.
     
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  12. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    Sunset seemed already on the path to supervillainy from what the canon adjacent comics showed.

    "Somepony who could be great, powerful...somepony that could rule Equestria." Just like she tried to do when she demonized in Equestria Girls.


    Yeah that totally doesn't sound like one lab accident away from getting a maniacal laugh and the hobby of tying Nell Fenwick to the train tracks.

    It seems just like the materialistic Rarity is probably not the obvious choice for generosity, Sunset's lust for power makes her the not so obvious choice for her element of Harmony, which according to Word of God, is empathy.

    Her magical talent in the sequels includes empathy- the ability to share someone's thoughts, emotions, and memories with a touch.
     
  13. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    *Looks at the Norman Conquest*

    Suuuuure it has.
     
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  14. Threadmarks: Counterpunched (part 10)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    18th January 2013
    21:47 GMT


    Zartok returns to the bridge, glancing at me before returning his attention to the main screen.

    "Anything of note, Drusa?"

    Many things, few of which will interest him. Life on the planets in this system doesn't seem to have been changed by the presence of the invading ships at all. The ship can get close enough and the sensors are acute enough to follow single individuals as they go about their day. And because we're monitoring all of it, I can just leave that on in one corner of my screen while I work through the rest of the data.

    "The main inhabited world is suburban."

    "And?"

    "Different forms of land use occur at different levels of technology. Large settlements can't form until transportation and farming increase to a certain level-."

    "Spare me."

    "They don't have cities. Technically. There are some industrial zones that cover a significant area of land, but there aren't many residential buildings in those areas."

    "No single targets to attack, but the people are too spread out to be properly defended."

    Not how I'd put it.

    "I imagine that their strategy for defending a world is the same as their strategy for defending their empire. Their forces are so mobile that they don't see any advantage to keeping their population in smaller areas."

    "They could build stronger shelters-." He cuts himself off. "Of course."

    "Of course?"

    "They're not a martial people. Not any longer. They can fight, but they fight with the intellect, not with the spirit. They have weighed and measured and found that this is the most resource-efficient way to organise things."

    "Isn't that what you did?"

    He frowns, his eye briefly returning to me.

    "Of course not. If people in my outer colonies knew that I wouldn't defend them because it 'wasn't efficient', then no one would have settled those worlds. I'm not talking about the policy of their government, I'm talking about their people."

    Ah.

    "The fact that people live in settlements laid out like this means that they know what their chances are, and they aren't doing anything about it. They're not trying to moderate the effect of the policy on… The chance of them living. They just accept it."

    He leans slightly closer to the monitor.

    "The question is whether it's indolence or fatalism. I would assume indolence had I not born witness to the skill of their fleets and Scarab Warriors. But perhaps there is some internal divide that only the Reach are aware of. Some worlds allowed to grow lazy while others provide tithe of warriors."

    "Genetic analysis of recovered remains suggests that's not the case."

    I can see him trying to understand. He's not stupid by any means, but-.

    "I read what the Illustres wrote on the subject, and what little the Controllers have been willing to share with the rest of us. All creatures need to have certain impulses in order for their species to live long enough to attain intelligence. One of those things is a desire to live, to fight to protect themselves and those close to you. I have it, you-."

    He looks mildly disappointed.

    "Have part of it. It may have different strength in different people, but a creature lacking it entirely indicates that something is fundamentally wrong with them."

    "What about artificial int-?"

    Oh.

    "Yes. Only creatures that were designed can be different. An artificial intelligence needs no ancestors. It does not need to inherit their passion to live. It can be told to do things that would see a creature in the wild killed and it will do so without complaint because it lacks spirit."

    "You think that they bio-engineered themselves."

    "When they used to make war on their neighbours, before the fight with the Green Lantern Corps, they cleared the worlds they conquered using guns. Such widespread death would normally cause an adverse psychological response in their soldiers. The level of hatred that is required for such methods take time to create, but it's hardly unheard of. Then the war, and before the ink is even dry on the treaty with the Guardians they begin subverting their neighbours."

    "You think they already had the technology. They just didn't use it on other species."

    "Or perhaps they did? If any public health records survive from those worlds then the Reach are the only ones who have them. A plague might be noticed by their neighbours, but anything more subtle might pass unnoticed."

    "And the neighbours would have bigger problems, like their new neighbour."

    "Yes."

    "We'd need to get access to their medical databases to find out for certain."

    He grunts. "Does it matter?"

    "If they've edited their genome too much then it might mean that they're more susceptible to biological weapons."

    "You might get a single world. Their command of biological science means that they would detect it too easily for a delayed attack, and they would be able to neutralise it without much difficulty. In ship to ship combat it would be less effective than an explosive even if they weren't wearing sealed suits. It might be possible to make something that could be used on a civilian population to secure compliance in exchange for palliatives, but we already know that they don't value their own lives."

    Oh.

    "Don't look so surprised, Drusa. I built an empire. I'm not a fool."

    "I'm sorry."

    "Don't be sorry. Be wiser. What else does them not having cities mean?"

    "Planning and terraforming. New colonies might have the technology to function spread out, but that technology still needs infrastructure. Most species build a relatively dense settlement with farms surrounding it when they first colonise a planet. As far as I can tell, the Reach didn't."

    "Did they use a slave species to do it for them?"

    "Not here, not as far as I can tell."

    "And they do not make much use of automata. Then they planned everything in advance. Most likely their buildings were pre-fabricated and transported here in great cargo transports to be assembled on the planet."

    I nod. "Or built using material from local asteroids, fabricated in space and then landed for construction."

    "And they all accepted the plan. Have you found anything resembling a civil enforcer station?"

    I perform a quick check. Some things don't look the same in different cultures, but there are some things that police usually do or have…

    "No."

    "Then their rulers are certain that the populace are obedient and will remain so, even if they are attacked."

    "Where are you going with this, Lantern Zartok?"

    "The Illustres has said that the worlds that the Reach took from species which still exist will be returned to them after the war. All other worlds will be up for grabs. I see no reason for slaughtering their entire species."

    "You want to take over?"

    "A system like this would be a perfect place to start again. But on this occasion, I want to deny the Reach whatever is on that ship."
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2023
  15. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    "intelligence"

    "complaint"

    "built"

    So the Reach altered other species to become more Reach-like?
     
  16. BlackCoat13

    BlackCoat13 I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    intelligence
     
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  17. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    So, then. Zartok hasn't gone running off half-cocked yet. Either he's smarter than that, or he just wants to make sure he's fully cocked. :p So presumably, he's going to want more information before he acts. And who better to ask than his erstwhile intelligence Lantern?

    So... Villages. Small towns... A pastoral lifestyle? Is this the Reach equivalent of an Agri-world?

    ...Or perhaps the people are choosing to live a simpler life.With an empire as large and as seemingly decadent, surely a quite, pastoral lifestyle might appeal to some. Like the Reach equivalent of Amish... o_O

    So advanced, but distributed by choice.

    You two think in different ways. He looks to the military application, you look to the logistical.

    ...Or they simply don't care about losing a few colonists.

    And that sums up so much of the Reach, doesn't it? Resource-efficient and specialised...

    Ooh, he didn't like that comparison.

    Something Drusa is not as good with, compared to raw data.

    But why do they accept it? Cultural indoctrination? Lack of concern?

    So it's engineered, then. They modified their citizens. Entirely as I'd expect.

    In other words, the Reach plebian caste... Are conditioned to not worry about it, their 'betters' will protect them. :confused:

    Heh. Subtle burn there, Zartok.

    If you're advanced enough to create sufficiently developed synthetic minds, you can easily decide what goes into their makeup.

    Almost certainly. Any advanced race will make adjustments to their genome, of course. Removing genetic flaws and weaknesses. But evidently the Reach took it to an extreme at some point...

    ...You think they had the subversion method ready and waiting for when force of arms failed?

    Like the already-subtle methods the Reach use to subvert planets now.

    Misdirection and sleight-of-hand.

    Pfft. Any race advanced enough to modify themselves like that probably have solutions for that attack route.

    And a biological attack can always mutate, and then you get killer super-virii.

    Just because he prefers conquest by strength of arms, doesn't mean he's ignorant of other ways.

    Lady still has much to learn.

    And then wiped them out afterwards? Inefficient.

    A literal Pre-fab colony complex...

    Ah, now that's a good angle. A population basically brainwashed into loyalty won't need much in the way of policing...

    Telling.

    Good question. Are you going to attack them or something?

    Planning for the future, but willing to put it off till later. Very good work.

    Now, it's a matter of Zartok convincing his fellow Corpsmen to go along with his 'take that the Reach wants' goal. Grood should need no arguments, but Drusa and Allyn might have reservations. Of greater concern is how they plan to attack. A full assault will leave the Reach asking where they came from, and that might expose the stealth ship...
     
  18. Lord Ernest

    Lord Ernest At the End...

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    It's fascinating to read this. Obviously, it's speculation on their part about the nature of the Reach, but still, fairly interesting.

    And of course this guy wants a piece of Reach real state once they win. Even though it might not be for a long time and I don't know if he has the mentality to keep himself alive that long or to return from death. He might not be around to get that piece of the pie.

    Then again, the story itself might do a swerve of the Illustres' expectation of a long war and this conflict might get resolved a lot sooner as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2023
  19. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
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  20. Senevri

    Senevri Not too sore, are you?

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    Wait. Exiled? Didn't Sunset just quit? Also, what's this about Starlight Glimmer being her sister?
     
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  21. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Experienced.

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    I think you responded to the wrong thread.
     
  22. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    She was being escorted from the palace when she decided to go for the mirror.
    I... Don't believe that's the case?
     
  23. Rockinalice

    Rockinalice Versed in the lewd.

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    Oh crap thanks
     
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  24. Enochi

    Enochi Having way to much fun with AI.

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    Being escorted out of the palace for reading restricted books without permission is far different from exile. She asked Celestia repeatedly about the mirror and Celestia told her she wasn't ready. (Also to note Celestia herself had issues with the mirror In her youth while training with Starswhirl the Bearded and there is some level of risk in overusing it.) When Celestia found out that Sunset was going behind her back to research the mirror. When Celestia confronts Sunset, Sunset just yells at Celestia for not teaching her this magic and proceeds to demand princesshood. Celestia at this point removes her from being her student and kicks her out of the castle. Sunset while being removed attacks the guards and dashes through the portal. She was never exiled.
     
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  25. Windona

    Windona Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

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    Interesting look at the Reach. Given how formal they are on roles to the point where there are no canon names beyond function in YJ, and only Dawur has a name in the comics, it makes sense they're engineered for their roles
     
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  26. Old Knife

    Old Knife Not too sore, are you?

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    She wasn't even sentenced then. She was just going to be temporarily held so they could decide what to do with her.

    She preempted them and exiled herself. Celestia has bought back much sympathy with this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2023
  27. jasonh23761

    jasonh23761 Not too sore, are you?

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    Alright Zartok, you're now my third favorite empire building Orange Lantern
     
  28. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Does anyone here remember those aliens Paul fought that were brainwashed on the genetic level to follow the Reach?

    If Zartok's theory on them altering aliens to make them biologically Reach, then those aliens may have been heading on that path.
     
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  29. DeathReaperZ

    DeathReaperZ In the Void.

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    This is unrelated, but what made you want to start writing WTR? Do you have other plans to write more fics after this is over? However long that takes? How much has your writing quality changed over the years, since this is your first, I think, fic?
     
  30. Threadmarks: Counterpunched (part 11)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    18th January 2013
    21:56 GMT


    I bite down.

    Marrow.

    False marrow. Not marrow. The bones aren't real bones. Made by machines. Made by my ring-machine.

    I swallow.

    Taste good, though.

    "…tube is easily detectable too, if we could make one, which we can't."

    "Allyn?"

    "I… Don't have a handheld system. And I didn't bring my ship-. The ship I used to command, with me, when I joined the Orange Lantern Corps. The assassin who worked for Sparta had a lower-emission version of the system, but I don't remember anyone else having anything like that."

    "Could you use theirs?"

    "The system is designed to need a New God in communion with the ship. I'd have to be close to even try. If there is another New God onboard, I'd have to be on the ship. I may have to beat them in combat."

    Words. Not action. I can understand, but it does not smell of food. Hunt-Leader Zartok looks for pack victory on ship. Prowls cage, searching for it in his mind.

    "What if we brought the ship closer?"

    Drusa's liver is not in it. Not supporting Hunt-Leader.

    "If you mean, 'brought into physical contact', that would break our stealth field. And if the boom tube generator was working, the Citizenry would have left by now. Which means that we'd need to repair it before we could use it."

    "Unless it was hard coded to create tubes for the ship, not for the crew."

    "No, it's the same system. Sparta, or Grayven, or Astarte, might not have explained it to them as a security measure."

    "A cowardly measure."

    "Would you want to serve under Astarte?"

    "No. I am a warrior, not a gigolo or a eunuch. But the warriors who form the Citizenry accept their culture."

    What? Ring-voice, explain.

    The Citizenry kill most men who they encounter. A small number are kept temporarily as breeding stock.

    What happens to them?

    Eventually, they are killed, liquidised, and fed to the population.

    Eventually?

    No precise timeline has been established. It is not known what eugenic standards the Citizenry hold themselves to. Nor is it known if their breeding slaves are bred naturally, or if their seed is extracted mechanically and then implanted into the citizens.

    Oh.

    I move the bone, and bite down again.

    I was eating soft food, but my mouth felt strange when my teeth got too long. So now I eat hard food. Feels better.

    Drusa said that ring can fix teeth. Don't want. Should not build body with ring. Ring might be gone tomorrow. Must remember how to be strong without it. Must remember how to have body without it.

    "…way to get things off this ship at all?"

    Drusa thinks hard. Difficult. Difficult to do things when secret-hunting to remain secret.

    "If one of us were inside the ship, next to the hull, we could fabricate an object outside of the hull. It could be detected -and I don't know how easily- but we could do it."

    "How large an object?"

    Drusa makes a motion of her hands.

    "One cross section could be no bigger than that. The rest, as long as you want. But the longer it is-."

    "Yes, yes. Can we include the object in the stealth field?"

    "If you're a Controller and you can talk Colos into staying in the system for a few months-."

    "Just say 'no'."

    "I… Might…"

    "Lantern Allyn?"

    "I haven't experimented with using my ring to make New God technology. And… My nature doesn't lend itself to stealth. But I do know the designs for New God stealth systems. They're not as effective as what we're using now, but the Reach have no knowledge of magic-."

    "Start experimenting."

    He does obeisance and then leaves.

    "I don't understand where you're going with this."

    "The Reach clearly don't understand what they're looking at. They want it intact so that they can study the system while its active, and living crew they can mentally subvert to explain it to them. But I know the limits of normal sensors. I don’t think that they know exactly how many survivors there are on board."

    "So if the boom tube system is either intact or intact enough to repair, and if we can get on board and convince the crew to cooperate with us, and if the Reach don't put together a boarding party and if the Reach don't fire on the ship once they realise what we're doing, we could get valuable information."

    "Yes. Though none of that matters if we would just give this ship's position away the moment we tried. I'm eager, not foolhardy."

    "Unless-."

    "Using this ship as a decoy would be foolish. Even if we could evacuate the entire crew using the boom tube, it would destroy its value as a stealth craft and alert the Reach to our capacity. We will always have a use for a stealth vessel that can sneak around Reach space undetected. If this is to be successful, the Reach must simply assume that the Citizenry were making repairs while they delayed in their boarding."

    "That will be easier to explain to Colos."

    "There is no sense in explaining anything to Colos until we have a firm plan of action. And we will rely on Allyn to fabricate the materials we need."

    "He's new."

    "If he can't do it, I'll either try something else or accept it and move on. Prisoners are useful, not essential."

    "What I do?"

    "You, Grood? You'll be the first on board. The Citizenry respects brutal violence. I'm sure you'll convince them to respect you."

    "Kill them?"

    "Yes, Grood. Kill them until I tell you not to."

    I grunt, and get new bone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2023
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