With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mr Zoat]

@boo600 I'm going to say that there was a very similar game featuring an armadillo which he reskinned.

 

[boo600]

I see. Makes sense.

Homesickness sucks, and I suppose Human Resources and other benefits don't quite bridge the gap.

 

[Steelplaza]

"Aah. Were you aware that a soul hunter vessel is currently docked with the station?"

I shake my head. "I don't know what a soul hunter is."

Click to shrink...

The alien tips back a drink sadly.

"You know, my species builds a lot of bridges. Statistically I mean, compared to most species. But do they call us the bridge builders? No."

He gestures at the docked spaceship. "And that ship. Operable by a single person, barely needs maintenance, it's a marvel of engineering is what it is. Do you have any idea how much engineering time went into that thing? That right there, it's evidence of a whole industrial civilization. Education, training, mining, metallurgy, a bureaucracy to organize it all... You can intuit thousands of years of history from that ship. But do they call us the ship builders? No."

The alien opens a cabinet and reveals the glowing orb within. "And all right, I get it, maybe this is our most famous piece of technology. Sure most of us don't have anything to do with making them; I'm a textiles man myself. But the technology to preserve souls? Sure, it's basically immortality. Why shouldn't we be proud of it? But do they call us the soul preservers? Nooooooo."

He shakes a fist angrily. "But you have a tiny religious minority that hunts alien souls and...!"

 

[adariusAlpha]

As much as I love some of the Variant chapters, I wish the threads page was more organised. I would love to be able to page through the storylines individually, and not have to take a second to think back to the last time we visited a certain IP.

 

[Mr Zoat]

As much as I love some of the Variant chapters, I wish the threads page was more organised. I would love to be able to page through the storylines individually, and not have to take a second to think back to the last time we visited a certain IP.

Click to shrink...

When you finish indexing them, I will be happy to link people to your work.

 

[Vaermina]

"A.I. chatbots can be remarkably realistic."

Click to shrink...

They are called agents in Babylon 5.

"The narn government would be interested in acquiring such a ship. We know little of their capabilities, but I suspect that at least some of their systems are superior to ours."

Hm. I don't really need a ship. And apparently this one stands out…

Click to shrink...

So... He just got ripped off...

Huh. I was going to say that speaking to important officials like ambassadors isn't that easy, then I remembered that religious couple who spoke to every ambassador within a day when they were trying to prevent Dr. Franklin treating their son. In this case the SI was trying to keep his abilities secret and so didn't want to come under that sort of scrutiny.

Click to shrink...

The Ambassador's on Babylon 5 aren't supposed to be important officials, for everyone but the Minbari and Vorlons they're the expendable dross their governments sent because they thought the station was doomed but still had to send someone.

And the Minbari and are pretending the same to hide that Delenn is Grey Council.

Yes, the problem there is probably that the Soul Hunters are too advanced,. and narns have literally no telepaths.

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Not how it works in Babylon 5, Soul Hunters are TL4 to very low TL5 at best.

And "too advanced to get much out of" doesn't start until TL 6.

 

[GhostKing 666]

On the "too advanced" problem, just remember the omega destroyers. Humans are less advanced than the narn,

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
Yeah no. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that just because the Narn don't have huge rotating sections on their starships, that they have artificial gravity. They don't. They have examples of old Centauri AG systems true, captured during liberation, but they've never been able to make heads or tails of them.

The Narn don't bother with building a ship with a large rotating section like the Omega, one because they don't have the engineering or technical skills to build a military starship with one that can stand up to combat like an Omega, and two because the Narn themselves are more resistant to the long term effects of micro-gravity than Humans so it's not as much of a problem for the Narn when it comes to how long a crew and starship can stay on patrol before needing some gravity time.

Earth and Narn are rough peers to each other, but the efforts Earth has made to modernize their fleet since the Minbari War has seen them pushing ahead. Once their Project Zeus starships come out in a few years(Warlocks, Apollos, Delphis and Chronos class ships), the Earth Alliance fleet would have been a whole generation ahead of the Narn fleet even if the events like the Narn-Centauri War, Earth Alliance Civil War, the Shadow War and the ISA(and the resulting sharing of technology) hadn't happened.

As I said earlier, Narn R&D was already starting to suffer from the fact most of their technology was reversed engineered from old Centauri technology and improving upon it was being hampered by their lack of equivalent understanding(modern Narn make great engineers, not so much great physicists). A problem that is exacerbated by the Kha'Ri's preference for funding research projects with quick returns over deeper theoretical research that they need in order to make real breakthroughs.


Also, on Earth and Shadow tech like the Shadow Omegas and the Nemesis Class "Shadow Warlocks"... dude, Earth had help building those things. Not even Shadow tech is plug and play and Earth needed help from the Shadows and their various servant races to integrate Shadow technology with their own systems.

Not how it works in Babylon 5, Soul Hunters are TL4 to very low TL5 at best.

And "too advanced to get much out of" doesn't start until TL 6.

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Even then, there's no fast reverse engineering in B5(not without actual help from the advanced race in question), so the Narn wouldn't get any returns on the Soul Hunter ship for another 20 to 30 years.

 

[Vaermina]

Yeah no. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that just because the Narn don't have huge rotating sections on their starships, that they have artificial gravity. They don't. They have examples of old Centauri AG systems true, captured during liberation, but they've never been able to make heads or tails of them.

Click to shrink...

They do not have examples of old Centauri AG systems.

Narn Fact Book

What the Narn Do Not Know

Even though the majority of their early technical knowledge
base came from the Centauri, there are certain advantages
the Republic has that the Narn did not receive. Because
the Kha'Ri were unable to take down or seize any capital
ships during their initial rebellion, the Narn were unable
to procure a working gravity generator. They have been
unable to get a functioning model in the decades since
then, making gravity one of the few scientific puzzles they
have not solved in their quest to exceed everything the
Republic has accomplished.

Click to shrink...

Even then, there's no fast reverse engineering in B5(not without actual help from the advanced race in question), so the Narn wouldn't get any returns on the Soul Hunter ship for another 20 to 30 years.

Click to shrink...

More like 2 to 3 years at that level, the races of Babylon 5 are very very good at reverse engineering recovered alien technology.

Mostly because there's just so many dead species around to recover from.

20-30 years would be for high TL5 low TL6.

TL7 is hundreds of years to get something out of it and TL8 is "maybe we'll learn something someday".

 

[GhostKing 666]

They do not have examples of old Centauri AG systems.





More like 2 to 3 years at that level, the races of Babylon 5 are very very good at reverse engineering recovered alien technology.

Mostly because there's just so many dead species around to recover from.

20-30 years would be for high TL5 low TL6.

TL7 is hundreds of years to get something out of it and TL8 is "maybe we'll learn something someday".

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20-30 years is about how much time it took for the Earth Alliance to finish digesting all the gains they made during the Dilgar War and the Minbari War. It's a literal, reasonable, "This is how tech progression goes in RL" type of thing, vs say, Stargate or X-Com. Especially as even stuff like Centauri technology or that of many of the League races are still a couple centuries or more ahead of both the Narn and the Earth Alliance.

 

[Vaermina]

20-30 years is about how much time it took for the Earth Alliance to finish digesting all the gains they made during the Dilgar War and the Minbari War. It's a literal, reasonable, "This is how tech progression goes in RL" type of thing, vs say, Stargate or X-Com. Especially as even stuff like Centauri technology or that of many of the League races are still a couple centuries or more ahead of both the Narn and the Earth Alliance.

Click to shrink...

It only took the Earth Alliance only a handful of years to reverse engineer everything from the Dilgar and Minbari wars.

Hell, the Earth Alliance was functionally reverse engineering and integrating new technologies in real time during the Minbari wars.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I wasn't sure whether the narns had artificial gravity or not, but now that I think about it all the shots I remember of the interior of their ships had them strapped down.

 

[GhostKing 666]

I wasn't sure whether the narns had artificial gravity or not, but now that I think about it all the shots I remember of the interior of their ships had them strapped down.

Click to shrink...

They explicitly don't. They can just last longer under micro-gravity conditions than Humans can before they start developing health issues, so it's not as big of a handicap for how long Narn crews can stay "in the field" before needing gravity time.

Back during the Dilgar War, the lack of artificial gravity or even rotational gravity was one of Earth Force's biggest challenges when fighting the Dilgar all the way over in League space, alongside logistical concerns like keeping their relatively gas guzzling and slow ships fueled up and stocking ammo for all their munition heavy weapons like railguns and missiles.

The Omega was as much a response to the lessons learned in the Dilgar War as the Minbari War, as it fills the same roles as the older Hyperion did but it's also faster, tougher, better armed, with a larger fighter count, better sensors, longer ranged and its rotational section giving it better endurance in the field.

 

[BR549]

You know, I had a thought, and especially now that the Dilgar War has been mentioned...

Any other narns in here?

There's a moment of silence.

Yes. But now is not my time.

"One, but they don't want anything."

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...it would be interesting if this particular Narn's unfinished business was with Jha'dur, wouldn't it?

And if there's anyone in the setting who deserves being made into a construct lantern...

 

[Vaermina]

I wasn't sure whether the narns had artificial gravity or not, but now that I think about it all the shots I remember of the interior of their ships had them strapped down.

Click to shrink...

Yup, they build their ships to look more advanced then they actually are.

You know, I had a thought, and especially now that the Dilgar War has been mentioned...



...it would be interesting if this particular Narn's unfinished business was with Jha'dur, wouldn't it?

And if there's anyone in the setting who deserves being made into a construct lantern...

Click to shrink...

You know... Given his history with such things Paul might actually try and save and reform Jha'dur...

 

[Mr Zoat]

28th September 2013
12:58 GMT -5

We appear five miles away from the site Zatanna scryed, because I am not a moron. Toyman immediately pulls out…

I smile. "Hey, I used to play with something like that when I was your age!"

It looks like a little plastic cassette-sized block, with a small toy helicopter and plastic pull cord embedded in it. You pull the helicopter out of its compartment and plug the base of it into its stand, then push the cord through the teeth of the cog inside the cassette under the helicopter and then pull, and it goes flying. Heck, I think I was younger than him when I first bought one… At a garage sale, I think?

"Yes. I make my machines-" He pulls the cord, the helicopter's propeller's spin, and it goes flying off far faster than any pull I managed. "-look like toys. That is why I am called 'Toyman'."

Could make a jab about being 'toyboy', but I think that would be inappropriate, and it almost certainly wouldn't translate properly.

Timothy watches it go. "So what goes it do?"

"It's a micro spy drone. It doesn't have a motor, but it's so light that by using a tiny battery it can generate enough ion wind to stay aloft for hours. It also has a camera."

"I could just ask a fairy to go take a look."

Zatanna says that he creates life instead of casting a spell. She didn't say what happens when he's done with it.

"I prefer not using magic around targets whose skills with magic are unknown."

Zatanna nods. "And fairies can be a bit tricky. Let's let Toyman's drone do its thing."

Timothy nods, looking around as Toyman studies his Etch A Sketch-.

"Does that actually work as an Etch A Sketch?"

"Of course." He holds the screen up towards me and turns the knobs, making a scraggly line. "Anything else would be lazy."

"I apologise, I did not mean to insult your work ethic. But… You realise that you don't need to stick to your theme now, right? You needed parental consent to take part in this project."

"It may be useful if I need to seem harmless."

"I think someone using an Etch A Sketch in the twenty-first century might actually make you stand out more."

"But harmlessly."

I nod as the Etch A Sketch sketches out an overhead view. A trailer park, though given Lonnie's skill with construction it's entirely possible that they've got some sort of underground base set up… If they're even there. I remember from the comics that he was pretty good with organising and motivating his homeless workforce… Tetch on the other hand spent years not interacting socially with anyone he wasn't mind controlling. We're too far from a city for Mr. Sage to use his abilities… But of course we don't know everything that sphere thing can do.

"Alright. Let me know if you see an elderly chimpanzee."

Zatanna frowns. "You don't think they hurt Bobo, do you?"

"I don't know. It's not clear from the security footage if he went with them voluntarily or not. If they didn't try to ransom him and didn't just release him immediately… I'm a little worried that Mister Tetch might try to reverse engineer his implant."

"So Mat Hatter might have a Thinker's Cap?"

"Yes. Or several. Or a squad of subverted OMAC infiltrators with Thinker's Caps"

Zatanna frowns in concern, glancing at Timothy and Hiro. Hiro's eyes are glued to his screen, but Timothy does look a little concerned.

"And this is a valuable lesson. Power does not equal aggression. Hunter, have you read-?"

"Mad Hatter-" Hiro doesn't look up as he speaks. "-believes that the Justice League is attempting to take control of the Earth."

"Something like that. I think it's more 'take control of human civilisation with immoral methods for immoral ends'. It's actually slightly nice that he's actually concerned about something like that, given what he was doing. Now, Hunter, what does that suggest about how he'll respond to our presence?"

"He won't really care about me or Toyman, because we're not part of the Justice League."

"Nearly. He's been a supervillain for long enough that he may well be paranoid enough to react badly to a child he doesn't recognise appearing in his neighbourhood."

"But… If he's working with a superhero like The Question, he won't do anything too mental."

"He probably won't, no. But the thing about stressed out mentally unstable people is that sometimes they don't know what they're going to do. Sometimes, people don't bother thinking about the future, about what rationally advances their position, about what makes any kind of sense at all, and they just do what it occurs to do at that exact moment. Got your belt?"

He nods, and lifts up his jumper to show me.

"Good lad."

Zatanna gives me a hard look. "We're not taking them into a fight like that."

"Of course not. But sometimes, the fight comes to you."

Timothy frowns thoughtfully. "Are you going to fight him?"

"Depends. Toyman?"

He's points to the screen. "I found Bobo."

Oh? I look over his head at the screen, and… Well, it's a chimpanzee in a deerstalker smoking a cigarette-. I thought they weren't giving those to him any more-? Ted wasn't giving those to him any more, not after they found out that he actually wouldn't rip the intern's head off if they didn't. Mr. Tetch made no such promise. And thanks to me, it's legally not animal cruelty.

I just hope that he isn't giving him liquor as well.

"He actually prefers 'Detective Chimp'. Where's that relative to the rest of the trailer park?"

He turns a knob, and the image pulls out… No, that's still well in view of the rest of it.

"Well done. Keep looking."

He nods, doing so. Zatanna considers me thoughtfully.

"How do you want to handle this?"

"I was happy to leave them to it, but mind controlling people is a bit beyond a useful external investigation. Unless they've got a very good explanation, I intent to arrest them."

Hiro turns a knob, frowning. "What is this?"

I look at the screen. Looks like someone's doing an outside… Lecture? Church service? And the face…

Lonnie Machin. With Yap sitting next to him. Probably a political lecture, then. Worth picking up, but there's no sphere and no Tetch.

"Good work. Keep looking."

 

[Ngamer11]

"So Mat Hatter might have a Thinker's Cap?"

Click to shrink...

That should say 'Mad'.

"I was happy to leave them to it, but mind controlling people is a bit beyond a useful external investigation. Unless they've got a very good explanation, I intent to arrest them."

Click to shrink...

That should say 'intend'.

Lonnie Machin. With Yap sitting next to him. Probably a political lecture, then. Worth picking up, but there's no sphere and no Tetch.

Click to shrink...

Who's Yap?

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

28th September 2013
12:58 GMT -5

We appear five miles away from the site Zatanna scryed, because I am not a moron. Toyman immediately pulls out…

I smile. "Hey, I used to play with something like that when I was your age!"

Click to shrink...

OL, just because you're really thirty-something right now doesn't mean you have to act old. At any rate, good to see OL being sensible about pulling up on potentially hostile capes.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

It looks like a little plastic cassette-sized block, with a small toy helicopter and plastic pull cord embedded in it. You pull the helicopter out of its compartment and plug the base of it into its stand, then push the cord through the teeth of the cog inside the cassette under the helicopter and then pull, and it goes flying. Heck, I think I was younger than him when I first bought one… At a garage sale, I think?

Click to shrink...

And they usually end up on rooftops, tree branches or other overhead hazards, because most kids are going to shoot them off without checking above first...

"Yes. I make my machines-" He pulls the cord, the helicopter's propeller's spin, and it goes flying off far faster than any pull I managed. "-look like toys. That is why I am called 'Toyman'."

Could make a jab about being 'toyboy', but I think that would be inappropriate, and it almost certainly wouldn't translate properly.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, let's not go there, OL.

Timothy watches it go. "So what goes it do?"

"It's a micro spy drone. It doesn't have a motor, but it's so light that by using a tiny battery it can generate enough ion wind to stay aloft for hours. It also has a camera."

Click to shrink...

Not bad. Making its functions that much better, while using micro-technolgoy to make it as functional as any modern device.

"I could just ask a fairy to go take a look."

Zatanna says that he creates life instead of casting a spell. She didn't say what happens when he's done with it.

Click to shrink...

I assume that means globbing together a chunk of local magical energies into a tiny sapient being. Which definitely has so many implications.

"I prefer not using magic around targets whose skills with magic are unknown."

Zatanna nods. "And fairies can be a bit tricky. Let's let Toyman's drone do its thing."

Click to shrink...

Both very good reasons not to fool around with whatever Tim's magic is doing.

Timothy nods, looking around as Toyman studies his Etch A Sketch-.

"Does that actually work as an Etch A Sketch?"

Click to shrink...

It's hardly complex. All you'd need is a micro-computer and motors to control the twiddlers to 'draw' single images at a time. Unless he's replaced the screen with an electronic device that conveniently resembles the dull-gray of the normal screen..

"Of course." He holds the screen up towards me and turns the knobs, making a scraggly line. "Anything else would be lazy."

"I apologise, I did not mean to insult your work ethic. But… You realise that you don't need to stick to your theme now, right? You needed parental consent to take part in this project."

Click to shrink...

This is cheap form-factor for his tech. Not everyone has to make their tech look like science-fiction gadgets...

"It may be useful if I need to seem harmless."

"I think someone using an Etch A Sketch in the twenty-first century might actually make you stand out more."

"But harmlessly."

Click to shrink...

It'd merely suggest his folks are old-fashioned. Or cheap. Or he's a retro toy fan.

I nod as the Etch A Sketch sketches out an overhead view. A trailer park, though given Lonnie's skill with construction it's entirely possible that they've got some sort of underground base set up… If they're even there. I remember from the comics that he was pretty good with organising and motivating his homeless workforce… Tetch on the other hand spent years not interacting socially with anyone he wasn't mind controlling. We're too far from a city for Mr. Sage to use his abilities… But of course we don't know everything that sphere thing can do.

Click to shrink...

Man, it's been long enough since thy last appeared I don't remember a 'sphere'. I assume New God tech assembled from captured parts, or similar. Or it's the team's old Sphere joining the Illuminati for kicks.

"Alright. Let me know if you see an elderly chimpanzee."

Zatanna frowns. "You don't think they hurt Bobo, do you?"

Click to shrink...

Zee, Bobo is stronger than any of them. I don't think he's in any physical danger.

"I don't know. It's not clear from the security footage if he went with them voluntarily or not. If they didn't try to ransom him and didn't just release him immediately… I'm a little worried that Mister Tetch might try to reverse engineer his implant."

"So Mat Hatter might have a Thinker's Cap?"

Click to shrink...

Now there's a scary thought. Wouldn't even need to get in arm's reach to be-hat someone...

"Yes. Or several. Or a squad of subverted OMAC infiltrators with Thinker's Caps."

Zatanna frowns in concern, glancing at Timothy and Hiro. Hiro's eyes are glued to his screen, but Timothy does look a little concerned.

Click to shrink...

Yes, this isn't exactly a non-squishy team for this, even if they assumed they'd be dealing with a handful of not-particularly-physical guys. But a Lantern goes a long way to compensating for that.

"And this is a valuable lesson. Power does not equal aggression. Hunter, have you read-?"

"Mad Hatter-" Hiro doesn't look up as he speaks. "-believes that the Justice League is attempting to take control of the Earth."

Click to shrink...

Now, now, Hiro. No need to step on your teammate's like that. It's not a competition and jumping in first doesn't give you points.

"Something like that. I think it's more 'take control of human civilisation with immoral methods for immoral ends'. It's actually slightly nice that he's actually concerned about something like that, given what he was doing. Now, Hunter, what does that suggest about how he'll respond to our presence?"

Click to shrink...

Which makes me wonder if the Illuminati members have actually seen what the League are like, or if they're just that cynical that they assume 'this will corrupt them'

"He won't really care about me or Toyman, because we're not part of the Justice League."

"Nearly. He's been a supervillain for long enough that he may well be paranoid enough to react badly to a child he doesn't recognise appearing in his neighbourhood."

"But… If he's working with a superhero like The Question, he won't do anything too mental."

Click to shrink...

And if Tetch has the whole neighbourhood controlled - entirely possible given his usual MO - someone he doesn't recognise, likely without a hat, will ring alarm bells.

"He probably won't, no. But the thing about stressed out mentally unstable people is that sometimes they don't know what they're going to do. Sometimes, people don't bother thinking about the future, about what rationally advances their position, about what makes any kind of sense at all, and they just do what it occurs to do at that exact moment. Got your belt?"

Click to shrink...

And super-criminals are especially prone to that. Pretty much anyone who gets powers or power-equivalent gear will usually either go vigilante or go criminal. It's a rare case that decides 'I'm gonna make a fortune off this legally'.

He nods, and lifts up his jumper to show me.

"Good lad."

Click to shrink...

The rookies will probably end up wearing them all the time out of habit, given how useful they are, both defensively and mobility-wise.

Zatanna gives me a hard look. "We're not taking them into a fight like that."

"Of course not. But sometimes, the fight comes to you."

Click to shrink...

And while it might nor protect against a gas attack, it's more likely that Tetch would go for the 'attacking mob' angle.

Timothy frowns thoughtfully. "Are you going to fight him?"

"Depends. Toyman?"

He's points to the screen. "I found Bobo."

Click to shrink...

The chimp would be distinctive. Not hard to spot, for sure.

Oh? I look over his head at the screen, and… Well, it's a chimpanzee in a deerstalker smoking a cigarette-. I thought they weren't giving those to him any more-? Ted wasn't giving those to him any more, not after they found out that he actually wouldn't rip the intern's head off if they didn't. Mr. Tetch made no such promise. And thanks to me, it's legally not animal cruelty.

Click to shrink...

No jacket yet, but it's probably hot. And really, Bobo is old enough he's not really concerned.

I just hope that he isn't giving him liquor as well.

"He actually prefers 'Detective Chimp'. Where's that relative to the rest of the trailer park?"

Click to shrink...

Such a classic cape name. Concise, descriptive and memorable.

He turns a knob, and the image pulls out… No, that's still well in view of the rest of it.

"Well done. Keep looking."

Click to shrink...

So there'll be no quick filament-and-transition to get him out of there before they go in.

He nods, doing so. Zatanna considers me thoughtfully.

"How do you want to handle this?"

Click to shrink...

Since it could get loud and Zatanna isn't the best frontline fighter, never mind the rookies.

"I was happy to leave them to it, but mind controlling people is a bit beyond a useful external investigation. Unless they've got a very good explanation, I intent to arrest them."

Hiro turns a knob, frowning. "What is this?"

I look at the screen. Looks like someone's doing an outside… Lecture? Church service? And the face…

Click to shrink...

Huh. Interesting.

Lonnie Machin. With Yap sitting next to him. Probably a political lecture, then. Worth picking up, but there's no sphere and no Tetch.

"Good work. Keep looking."

Click to shrink...

And of course, no Question. But it's unlikely he'd be present all that often.

Might be worthwhile listening in on Lonnie's speech, see if there's any clue as to their motives here. But not too long for fear of memetic effects. And the sooner they move in, the less likely it is that someone might look up and spot them. Even if it might be tempting to wait until they can catch all of them...

 

[BR549]

"It may be useful if I need to seem harmless."

"I think someone using an Etch A Sketch in the twenty-first century might actually make you stand out more."

"But harmlessly."

Click to shrink...

He's got you there, Paul.

Who's Yap?

Click to shrink...

Anarky's rather intelligent dog.

Which makes me wonder if the Illuminati members have actually seen what the League are like, or if they're just that cynical that they assume 'this will corrupt them'

Click to shrink...

To be fair, it's a comic book universe. Since having nice things would (in the minds of the editors, at least) reduce sales, this sort of thing would inevitably corrupt them.

At least, that's what Ambush Bug would say.

 

[Darko]

watches it go. "So what goes it do?"

Click to shrink...

"does it"