With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

‘bears’?

I know this is right, but I really wish the correct spelling was ‘talismen’.

 

Been rereading the Anti-Life Arc, then the Silver City’s non action again, which made me remember the spear and thus Jesus.

I forget, but is Mr Zoat going with the interpretation that Mary wasn’t actually a virgin? Since it was all but stated that Gabriel raped her, so by extension Jesus isn’t actually the Son of God or even a prophet or Messiah, just Gabriel’s by blow and a regular nephilim.

It’s Hellblazer, so stuff’s gotta be as edgy as possible lol.

Given the attention to detail with even the most obscure characters, and distaste for Christianity, the thought of Paul revealing that little tidbit to some zealots that are proving obstructive nuisances sound like the kind of thing he’d do when tearing them down or when in an academic discussion with someone about Christianity’s history and origins.

Edit:

A quick wiki search apparently contradicts Hellblazer canon with characters like this guy https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Azzarene_(New_Earth)

But since Constantine’s a much more prominent character, I’m gonna wager that WTR goes with Hellblazer’s take.

 

I wonder if god Paul has taken a tiny bit of space in his followers brains.

Instant mind control switch/memory edit and additional processing power while they sleep/pray aside i doubt he's human at this point.

Something like this sounds like it's subtle enough for his needs.

I imagine he's already downloaded a tech database/the internet and hidden it somewhere in a ring printed computer somewhere.

 

I'm of the opinion Mr. Zoat usually has his arc planned out before he begins it, but that doesn't mean he's got every arc planned out for going forward. So taking sidestory diversions is, aside from being semi-interesting 'what-ifs' are good time distractions while he thinks up what the next segment will have in it. And most of us are pretty okay with the side stories. Personally, so long as it's not Renegade, I'm usually marginally interested. Gate is not something I'd be willing to engage in a more canonical / official capacity (Even watching one episode of it would be too much of an ask, really) but reading a short little 1k chapter about a weird hypothetical Paul future / multiversal is doable. It's not enough to get invested, but some of them are interesting or even have a few funny lines / situations.

 

I rather like the Warhammer snippets myself.

 

Same, though my favorite’s the 40k ones

Agreed, canon Gate’s not my cup of tea, but the side stories/ what ifs are really cool

 

Looking at the number of likes, it appears that you are in the minority. Though I do appreciate the support.

It's rare, but it does happen. Still waiting on that Vault Dwelling for Sanity and Profit update!

Thank you, corrected.

 

Found it! It’s been bugging me for a bit, but a good old reread did the trick, well, good on Paul for not revealing to Zatanna who exactly Gabriel raped lol. I wonder if she connected the dots but didn’t want to believe it.

Though I am confused why the spear that stabbed Jesus is something notable. It’s not the Spear of Destiny, just a spear that stabbed a nephilim, the holy grail’s backstory predated Jesus by millenia in DC, he was just the most famous drinker from that in recent history which explains why it’s so powerful regardless . But I do wonder who started on that whole Son of God thing in-universe, certainly wasn’t true.

I suppose part of Paul’s ambivalence to it, aside from the Presence’s rather lacking or incompatible actions is that Christianity is based on a scam, Jesus’ disciples hyping him up, I suppose a nephilim’s power is indistinguishable from real miracles from a layman’s perspective and Mary likely didn’t tell Jesus the truth of his conception.

It’s debatable if he even counts as an actual prophet like Islam claims, then again I suppose Gabriel made sure Mary bore a child for a reason so there was a plan there.

Edit:

The Lucifer comics apparently says he’s the real deal, so who knows.

On one hand, Paul’s not an omniscient narrator, on the other Mr Zoat clearly uses Hellblazer’s continuity for that bit of lore, so it’s pretty much a confirmation.

I wonder if someone’s asked Zauriel about the Jesus thing.

 

He tells her later on after she directly asks him about it. This was when she was still being affected by the Star Sapphire and after angels killed Paul.

 

Thanks!

Huh, not confirmed yet? I suppose he doesn’t have any reason to ask Zauriel or the like on what happened, but given the rest happened it’s more likely that there was no need to.

X confirms Y and all that.

Edit:

Reread the arc, and yep, Karrien confirmed that Jesus was a nephilim, hooray for confirmation lol.

That being said, why were the heavenly host even “bound” by his nonsense? He was just a nephilim after all. Nothing special in the grand scheme of things.

Or, more pressingly, why did the Presence even bother with the charade? It was just a scam.

Gonna have to look to see if that bit was broadcasted or something, something tells me Christianity will go the way of the dodo in a few years haha.

I suppose OL respects Father Mattias enough not to reveal that everything he believed in is a sham. The emotional distress that’d cause would be a bit too much I imagine, even if it means less ignorance.

On the other other hand, Paul’s entirely willing to rip the bandaid off and just shake things up in society in a big, chaotic way if he perceives the benefits as outweighing the downsides in the transition, so getting people to wise up about how stupid following the Abrahamic faiths are with this big an opening was a missed opportunity…or was it?

I’m pretty sure OL’s happy to let the world think the angels just attacked at random for no reason rather than revealing the civil war that happened. Better to take advantage of things. Heaven killing people and Paul and the League fighting them and convincing them to ressurect the people that died after defeating Heaven’s forces is the technical truth after all.

He’s not purposely eroding the belief in it, not lying but he’s letting them gather the rope to hang themselves and he can’t be blamed for it. Pretty smart.

Edit:

Mr Zoat out of curiosity, since Paul’s Best Case Scenario long term regarding the Silver City down the line is it being destroyed and Hell reformed and on the rise, what is Paul planning with the souls already there? Redistribution to other pantheon’s afterlives? Reincarnation? Send them down to the (hopefully) reformed Hell? Creating an artificial afterlife?

Or is it more destroy the system and reformat it, so technically the Silver City still exists but under new and better management? Doesn’t explain what happens to the souls though. From what I assume It’s basically the Matrix but worse so even that’s a crappy consolation prize, trapped in a lotus eater machine. I wonder what Paul hopes to replace it with.

 

The SI is open to everyone improving. He has no objection to people seeking to unify their souls with the Source after their deaths if that's something that they want to do. I mean, Books of Magic was clear that the eventual heat death of the universe would take all afterlives with it, so that's pretty much what everyone is going to have to do eventually anyway.

 

Good to know. I would’ve imagined he was fully set on burning down Heaven if given the choice and the capacity of handing the consequences of such since demons are more reasonable to work with, ironically.

Plus, Paul tends to be condescendingly compassionate about people he thinks are being deliberately ignorant or thinks are being foolish. Kinda assumed it’s how he perceived anyone who believes in the Abrahamic faiths.

It’s impossible for Paul to be unbiased after all, his power is dependent on it.

Btw, did Paul or the League actually clear up what happened when the League stormed Heaven with demonic backup or did they (Paul) let the public come up with their own conclusions? Prime opportunity there after all, why help prevent an opponent from making a blunder.

Then again, I doubt the Silver City gives a shit if a nephilim’s scam is less believed in by people.

That little bit of info would do a lot to spell the death of Christianity, Jesus being a rape baby and not even a proper prophet would cause shockwaves lol. But I suppose, personal distaste for them aside, Paul’s pragmatic enough to wait for that reveal until he’s got a safety net to minimize the negative impact of the fall out.

 

The Justice League made an announcement that angels were deceived into attacking Paul and most people accepted that. Some people probably still hate Paul, but he's been dealing with hate mail since at least his interview about angels, so he doesn't really care about that.

 

Ah, gotcha. I had a feeling that happened, if nothing else, the League won’t want people in widespread paranoia about a repeat suddenly happening for some inexplicable reason

On the bright side, I doubt Zatanna will pray or enter a church again anytime soon , or at all XD, or anyone from the League in general haha. Hard to have faith in something that’s systematically shown itself to either be a scam, a charade built on nothing but a lie and propaganda or just plain counterproductive and an obstacle to your own morals.

Edit: Besides, I doubt people will be lining up for something right out of “the Matrix” as an afterlife. The Silver City’s shit, I doubt the souls there are actually at paradise, or am I mixing it up with Supernatural’s version of Heaven?

I still remember Zauriel’s intro and Paul actually tearing up at Zauriel’s singing, you’d think the sound would be more ear grating or eldritch given the general stance of the fic on that stuff.

Man, I really gotta reread the previous arcs lol.

 

The SI doesn't have a problem with the Silver City when they're not trying to kill him.

The angels are well intentioned, but their instinctive obedience and relative problem with free will makes it possible to manipulate them. Demons are self-interest at best and Kantian evil-doers at worst. Mammon needed help to curb the worst aspects and it's still pretty darn bad. The angels needed a slap upside the head and they're back to doing good.

If you can use theurgy, you're a prophet in any way that matters. Jesus could.

 

Good to know. Thanks for clarifying. Much appreciated. Cuz ngl, from what I’ve seen it kinda came across to me like Paul liked working with demons more than having to interact with any angel haha. Well, maybe not liked, but tolerated more.

Demons can be expected to be demons, but angels are continuous disappointments and let downs is how it felt like Paul saw things.

I was about to say something about Paul’s ideal scenario is Heaven destroyed and Hell weakened enough to have reforms imposed, but it turned out that it was a reader that posted that. In fairness, it was pretty late at night when I read it, so my brain was pretty tired XD.

Spoiler: The post in question

He doesn't like Angels, or The Silver City. He conciders it a dangerous hostile power with good publicity. That it is both evil, and given dangerous undue trust and an assumption of decency and good faith it hasn't earned, or has even anti-earned. And that ultimately everyone would be better off if hell invaded it and burned it too the ground.

Keeping in mind that he doesn't like or trust hell.

He's not acting on this because he would burn bridges with people he actually likes, respects, and wants to be around in the future. Just remember that from Paul's perspective, the best outcome is one where Heaven is destroyed, and Hell crippled enough that Earth could go in their, take over, and impose reforms.

My apologies for causing a ruckus.

 

I'm reminded of the opening of the first episode of Transformers Animated. All the Decepticons - bar one - are bickering on the bridge of their ship, and things are literally half a second from everybody trying to tear everyone else apart...

Then the bridge door swishes open.
Megatron steps through.
And EVERYTHING does deathly still and silent.

 

This part is colored orange, but the previous conversation involving the New Gods isn't. Was the previous conversation through a communicator, but this one through Paul's ring?

 

Oh no.

 

After all, there's no point pulling down everything unless you know you won't need the buildings. And while Mannheim probably doesn't need the machines of bureaucracy, the city is still useful as defensive structures. And as a symbol of his domination.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

So, brutalist architecture unrestrained by the limits of conventional materials, huh? About what I'd picture, anyway.

I half imagine the tendrils look like Ivy's climbing-vine creations.

Let's not go courting trouble yet, Alan?

Really? You expect Mannheim would know what the Spectrum does when combined? Unless Darkseid had interrogated a Maltusian at some point, that secret is still very much in the bag.

And the victory will be all the sweeter when he crushes them as they think they're about to triumph.

At which point he will become increasingly desperate. So be on your guard.

Everything in the city will aggro on the Lanterns.

And there they are. Well, it's a solid reminder of the cost of failure.

Not because of the Red Light, at least. After all, the War Dog of New Genesis showing up on Earth is a pretty big threat to Mannheim.

Sooner they shut the Anti-life up, the better.

Grab your snack of choice, folks, things are about to go hot.

Hopefully they can at least keep Orion on task, given his current mad-on.

And I suspect it would only be detectable if it wants to be...

...And here... We... Go!

And somewhere, Mannheim snaps his head around in surprise. ...Then tries to play it off with calm dismissal.

...Yeah, you're going to want to pull that Ring off him as soon as things are done.

Yeah, take cover, kiddies. Things are about to get loud.

Careful, bats. He has no knowledge of your reputation, and no reason to feel any need to not smash you aside...

Oh, boy. Orion's going to foul this up, isn't he?

...Whoops. That's a new trick. And a nasty one.

The joy of pop culture treating shock paddles as cure-all buttons for heart issues. ...Also as instant-kill weapons in videogames.

They at least have the excuse of New God resistance to Godspeech shenanigans.

Whoops, there goes Batman's backup plan. Upside, no need to worry about Sportsy later.

...Huh. I mean, the brain can keep functioning for a little bit after the heart stops, but...

...Ah. Mannheim's using that Aztec pantheon mojo he swiped to dick around with people's hearts, huh?

Not too difficult, once you find it. A few crumbler railgun rounds should clean it up.

...And I see Mannheim knows you know how to kill elf gates.

So, the battle is joined in earnest. Both sides are deploying their strongest weapons, Team Lantern has their counter in place and Mannheim is looking to squash them like bugs. The endgame has begun, the boss fight music is playing and things are going to get wild. So grab your preferred snacks, pull up a comfy chair, and let's see how the day gets saved!

 

Paul knew he ate an entire pantheon...

Did he seriously not prepare even the slightest for god tier mannheim?

 

‘unusually’?

‘it as the’

This works, but is it supposed to be ‘this elf gate’?

Seems like things are about to get exciting. Orion is being a bit of a shit, though.

 

Thank you, corrected.

I don't think so.

 

Two quotation marks after new gods.

 

Thank you, corrected.

 

Ten years later....

"Yes, the Anti-Life incident killed a lot of people, but studies show that being able to violate building codes and putting up all this new and valuable architecture makes the whole thing a net economic positive for DC."

"You're shitting me."

"I am not! Apokolips Apartments alone has been worth billions to the city's economic development. And the acoustics of the Slaughterdome make it perfect for all kinds of performances. We could never have gotten that built under code."

 

The plan really does not call for every hero available to teleport in? This is arguably the most important moment in Earth's modern history. They need everyone they can get.

 

There's a few reasons.

The obvious one is that the JL and team don't have a site to site transporter. The Zeta tubes and OL's Portal Network are base station based, if the stations aren't destroyed or deactivated by now then they're likely heavily guarded. OL can greedy port himself, and maybe a handful of folks if they could shield themselves. He can Transition a bit more then that in a local area if Ring FTL isn't jammed somehow but if that's abused it's VERY unhealthy. The Other side has full access to elf gates, boom tubes and the teleportation network the Not! Justice League operated.

One of the practical reasons is simply that most hero's aren't in this weight class and would be threatened just being in the area of impact while the heavy hitters are throwing haymakers. You bring who you need to win the fight, reserves to handle combat losses, and that's about it.

Two is command and control issues, you need a tight and short chain of command when you need the fine details looked after, and adapting to things on the fly. Throwing a bunch of hero's that aren't used to working together all into one spot is asking for a lot of complications from friendly fire, power interactions and just bad communication.

Three is spreading enemy forces. If you have All your doods in one spot, the enemy can do the same, leaving the rest of the world up for grabs for anyone not part of the brawl. Your wide open for flanking attacks, or someone hitting a Weapon of Mass Destruction and killing everyone in the combat zone while the other side boom tubes out at the last minute. The other side of this is that while they make this assault, the rest of the league can be launching attacks in different locations as diversions. Until the big rainbow gets warmed up for the Life Vs Anti-life attack, this just looks like any other Hero attack, so bad guys have to keep their response force proportional what they're seeing, at least until they identify the level of the threat.

 

I know, right? This is the endgame. The Atom is the best option for beating Mannheim, and the Justice League can be a good distraction.