Amelia, Worm AU [Complete]

[Mogget]

Well people saying they subjectively didn't like something may not be a valid criticism, but that doesn't mean they're wrong. It just means they can't pinpoint what about the writing they have a problem with. When you get more than a few people complaining about something there was probably something you could have done better, even if none of us can figure out what.

Maybe fast forward endbringer fights a little to focus more on the aftermath? Instead of the blow-by-blow we're getting now? I realize you did that completely for Tohu/Bohu, but you could have done it again in one way or another.

 

[dasstan]

You might have a point there if it failed on everyone. But so far, it only seems to be small, if vocal, minority of them that aren't getting it. So, y'know, can't please everyone or haters gonna hate or whatever it is they're saying to be dismissive these days.

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From what I've been reading of the comments, most of the people weren't moved by it. They aren't upset in the same way they were back when New Dehli was lost or anything like that. The general feeling is "Okay, what's next?" rather than "Holy shit they just lost their city," or "Man, I really feel for Taylor and Amelia and whoever else cares about Brockton Bay."

Sure, it's tragic, but there has been a lot of tragedy in the fic already. I don't know about the majority of the other readers, but I've pretty much become accustomed to it in this fic. The stakes are bigger than one city, so the loss of that city doesn't have much of an impact.

As to the criticism in general, let me quote Tempera from SV summarizing Gaiman:

Remember: when people tell you something's wrong or doesn't work, they are almost always right. When they tell you exactly what's wrong and how to fix it, they are almost always wrong.

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Here's the thing; most readers suck. Thereby, most of your critics will suck.

Think of it as being like cooking. A lot of people don't know the first thing about cooking; look at how many people are unable to function when asked to cook anything more simple than chilli or toast. Those are outliers, but your average cook is by no means an expert. They will certainly know how to prepare enough meals to feed themselves, and they are capable of following recipes, but… that's it. They will never be truly fantastic cooks. Their skills are sufficient. Average.
A skilled cook will be able to pick apart a meal- to tell you what spices are in a dish, and how those spices complement each other. They will be able to tell you what foods were used in it, and why those foods were used- their texture, their flavour, how the smokiness of the beef perfectly complemented the lemon-rosemary dressing or whatever. But your average person-the best they'll be able to tell you is that the meal was too spicy, or that the meat was too tough, or that the pasta was overcooked.

To a real extent, that's what writing is like. Most people simply don't know enough about writing to comment in an informed manner.

So, when a reader looks at a story, they'll be able to point out issues they had with the story. You've probably seen a lot of comments along those lines; "The fight scene was boring, bleh", "I don't know what it is, but Amanda seems off at the start of this chapter", "There's too much talking", and so on. They're helpful in that they let you know you've screwed up, and in what direction you should look to try and see how to fix whatever flaw they're complaining about, but that's it. They don't identify the flaw in your writing, and they certainly don't offer a fix.

On the other hand, when a reader does identify a specific flaw in your writing… chances are, they're wrong.

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So, yeah. If there's a significant amount of people pointing out something in the writing they don't think works, there is an underlying problem. It might not be what they're pointing out, but the problem itself exists.

 

[TanaNari]

Maybe fast forward endbringer fights a little to focus more on the aftermath? Instead of the blow-by-blow we're getting now? I realize you did that completely for Tohu/Bohu, but you could have done it again in one way or another.

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Honestly? I'm already accelerating the living hell out of them. Hour or two long battles condensed into 3-4k word chunks? That's a lot of compression.

As to the criticism in general, let me quote Tempera from SV summarizing Gaiman:

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I disagree with absolutely everything in that post (except the part that most critics suck- that is definitely true), so, meh.


Look at it this way. If I had someone telling me there was a spelling or grammar error in my writing. Yet they wouldn't tell me what the error is, where to find it, or what the correct spelling would be. Then I have to assume that person, even if they might be correct, are useless for the purposes of making my spelling better.

So it goes with all other forms of would be criticism.

 

[CptTagon]

Good question. Someone should totally plan their wedding so I don't have to.

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Taylor and Amelia's wedding would be dominated in the planning phase by Riley, Lisa, and Vicky, obviously. Riley would push for a big of a spectacle as possible, to try and impress Big Sis. Vicky and Lisa would probably go along with it, due to similar sentiments, and amusement, respectively. The officiating authority, I'm not sure about. Could be Dragon, could be someone else. I presume they would be married on Avalon, so they can use whoever they want to preside over the ceremony.

Taylor would probably want to make the dresses out of spider silk, with Sabah helping, if she is still interested in fashion. Amelia would have something lacy with a veil. Long, trailing on the ground, so Riley can carry the train. Shoulderless, with long gloves.

Taylor would probably be a bit more... "masculine" is the wrong word, but I can't think of a better one. Still a dress, but with less extraneous fabric, and showing less skin, assuming Lisa doesn't talk her into something more daring. No veil, but with a circlet or something.

Family and friends would obviously be invited. It would be held outside, possibly at dawn for the symbolism, both as a couple, and as the imperial family on a new world.The ceremony would open with Amelia being walked down the aisle, possibly with Vicky. Then Taylor would come, escorted by Danny. A speech by the presiding authority, followed by the exchange of vows. Then a meet and greet down the rows as the couple walk to the rear of the assembly.

After the wedding proper, a breakfast and dancing, with speeches by the usual suspects at a wedding. Then, Taylor and Amelia will leave for their honeymoon.

 

[dasstan]

I disagree with absolutely everything in that post, so, meh.


Look at it this way. If I had someone telling me there was a spelling or grammar error in my writing. Yet they wouldn't tell me what it was, where it was, or what the correct spelling would be. Then I have to assume that person, even if they might be correct, are useless for the purposes of making my spelling better.

So it goes with all other forms of would be criticism.

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Blatant appeal to authority, but I'm going to have to trust the professional editor on this one. As to the hypothetical spelling corrector... You're creating a false dichotomy between surface errors that any layperson can point out (because, really, most everyone has the training to point out a typo) and the kind of detailed analytical breakdown that only someone whose profession it is to do that can provide.

The majority of us can't do that. What we can do is point out that there is something in the writing that doesn't resonate, and hope that the author can use that criticism to find out what the actual problem is. Or even if there is a problem at all.

For all I know, the lack of emotional investment in the Endbringer fight is by design. If so, kudos. If not, then there is a flaw somewhere. I lack the training to pinpoint what it is, I just know that there is something about it that isn't doing it for me.

 

[Swingline#57]

Snip.

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Judging by the...less than effective efforts against the Endbringers, is there a pressing need to talk about planning a wedding?

 

[TanaNari]

Judging by the...less than effective efforts against the Endbringers, is there a pressing need to talk about planning a wedding?

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Maybe the visions of a beautiful ceremony to show to the readers will tempt me into letting them find ways to fix the problem?

... Nah, not really... the Endbringer battles, and their (general) resolutions, were known (more or less) as of... eh... somewhere between Simurgh and Barghest... at least in as much as their first fights with each of the new 'bringers. Rematches, eh, little more vague.

Lots of details I didn't have planned. Sveta, for example. What Vicky's new powerset would be (though I did know she was getting a new one)... stuff like that... but the actual big events were definitely know. Barghest would be decapitate a bunch of people and leave more or less untouched. Khonsu would provoke the same meeting as in canon. Tohu/Bohu would, well, can't say "take the gloves off", but bump it up to 'preschool' difficulty.

 

[TanaNari]

Amelia, Ch 273- Taylor


It took another four minutes before Shaman finally spoke again. "That's it," he gasped. "I've let go of everything I had in there. If it's still alive, it's not my fault. If it's dead, I demand top billing." FearHopeAnticipationUncertainty.


"Give in another minute," Lisa instructed. "You okay in there, Atropos?"


"Considering if this doesn't work I'm going to be turned into Endbringer parts?" she replied. "Yeah, I'm just peachy."


"Don't think it can," Minerva replied. "Either it only has five stages, or the damage we did forced it straight to the sixth."


"So it's dead?" Alexandria asked. It was the question everyone wanted to know.


"Can't say," Lisa admitted. "The way its body works, there's no way to know. If we're being honest, I doubt it's dead." DismayFailure. Amelia held me tighter. I should be bothered that we're being this emotional in full view of so many heroes, I realized, but I couldn't bring myself to care. Meanwhile, Lisa kept speaking. "It lost this battle, one way or the other. Now we know how to stop it before it evolves into its top stages. Whether it's dead or not, we won. This Endbringer won't be able to destroy much more than a city block the next time we fight it, and it'll be a long time before it's recovered enough to fight again."


"That's... some consolation, at least," Alexandria agreed.


"Dude, that's so fucking unfair," Shaman spoke over the com.


"Look at it this way," Atropos piped up. "Kill an Endbringer once, you're the big damn hero once. Kick the shit out of an Endbringer and it gets away, you're a big damn hero once a year."


"Oh. Oh fuck." Minerva muttered.


"What is it?" Alexandria asked.


"Nothing I'm ready to talk about right now," Minerva replied. Alexandria met her gaze, and the two women regarded each other silently for what felt like far too long. "You'll have to forgive me, but I can't say it right now. I don't even know if I'm right."


"I suppose we'll have to remain in suspense, then," Alexandria replied, not sounding particularly happy.


"Hold on," Chevalier interrupted. "This isn't going to be an issue, is it? I don't like allies keeping secrets, not about something like the Endbringers."


"It's not about the Endbringers," Minerva responded. "Or at least nothing of immediate use or value. We'd be here for the next six months if I told you every little hunch I have about them that will probably go nowhere. They are resistant to Thinker powers, after all."


Chevalier didn't seem particularly happy with that answer, but he let it rest nonetheless. I, meanwhile, wondered what Lisa figured out.


"We need to start taking inventory of the losses," I managed to speak up. PainFear. Right. I turned off the com for a second. "Don't worry, Victoria's alive. Don't know about 'well', but as fast as she regenerates, she'll be alright soon and complaining that she doesn't even get a cool looking scar for her troubles." HopeReliefGratitude.


"Brockton Bay is a total loss," Emma replied, sounding tired. "Over eighty percent of the city was destroyed completely, and what's still standing is in worse shape than it was after the S9's attack."


GuiltPainLoss. How much of that is her feelings, how much of it mine? In all honesty, most of it was probably her. I wasn't all that fond of Brockton Bay. Its corruption and bullshit ran straight up to the top. Sure, when we needed to, we exploited the fuck out of it, but that wasn't something that made me like it any better. If anything, that just made me hate it that much more. Dad's going to be ruined, though.


"But... we can restore it, right?" Amelia asked.


"With what?" Emma replied. "Maybe the stuff around the edges could be salvaged for raw material. But the central portion of the city is now a shallow saltwater lake. It'd be cheaper and easier just to build an entirely new city nearby than it would to restore this one."


"I could use the Yggdrasil to replace the mass," Amelia offered, I could tell from her voice that she'd been crying, even if the link hadn't made it painfully clear. "Spread it, kill it, let it decompose into a new layer of soil. Everything we're doing on Avalon."


"Dragon," Emma turned toward the older, more respected, Trump-Tinker. "If I'm wrong, please tell me."


"You're not," Dragon admitted. "I'm sorry. The Yggdrasil could support, at most, a population of fifty thousand using the space available in Brockton Bay. And that's if dedicated solely to living space, not including utilities, or places of employment. At best, we might be able to demolish the buildings beyond and use them for raw materials, but that would require months to achieve anything notable. Decades before the city will be recognizable as such again. We saved as many people as we possibly could, but the city itself is lost." FailureGuiltDespair.


"We can do other things to help," Crystal offered, the same soft voice that she used to comfort me when I was dealing with the combined weight of my guilt and Amelia's. She'll make an amazing mother, some day. "We already accept refugees. Maybe we can alter the policy some. Offer, like, temporary citizenship or whatever. A few square miles might not be much, but we can set aside a thousand miles of space on Avalon without so much as blinking an eye. Restore the portal, rebuild our Embassy space, at least. Trying to rebuild the city overnight is impossible. But as long as we keep our portal here, people will have reason to return." ReliefGratitudeHope.


I smiled at Crystal. "Thanks," I mouthed silently. "Amelia, we're going to need your help a bit," I stroked my partner's shoulder.


"Okay," she sighed, allowing me to lead her to where Atropos, Shaman and Rosary were.


"Is he going to be okay?" Rosary asked as Amelia knelt down to touch both of them.


"Yeah," she responded. "Exhaustion is the biggest risk, a bit of dehydration and hyperthermia. He's going to feel like hell for the next couple days, but if he stays hydrated he'll be fine."


"I'll be sure to let someone know," she sighed.


"Aww, you really do care," Shaman spoke. I could hear the smirk in his voice.


"Yeah, I care," she replied. "Your power's the one thing between Wendigo and another destroyed city. I'd be a moron to not care."


"Speaking of, thanks for the fucking buzzkill. Thought we killed that bitch for real."


"Maybe, maybe not," Minerva responded. "It's a decentralized being. If any part of it was outside of the forcefields when we started killing it, then it will be back. Don't know how long it'll take to recover from that much damage, though. It will likely be two or three years before it attacks again, maybe a full decade."


"So, good as dead, then," Alexandria replied.


"Probably," Lisa answered.


"Fuck, I'll take it," Shaman replied. "Now I'm gonna go home and celebrate by getting shitfaced. If I'm gonna have a headache anyway, might as well earn it."


"No alcohol," Amelia instructed. "That'll just dehydrate you more."


"That's it, next Endbringer, I'm staying in bed."


"Then we'll report it as destroyed," Chevalier responded. "After Chongqing and Bucharest and now this, we need to be able to claim a victory. A destroyed Endbringer is a victory, even with the price being this high." GuiltShameFailure.


==============

A/N- My spellcheck didn't know hyperthermia was a word.

 

[powerofvoid]

Well, I think Lisa just made that breakthrough people were on her about.

EDIT: Huh, I guess I read at at least 500 wpm.

 

[Diller]

I think part of the problem is how rapid the EB have been popping up. It hasn't even been two weeks in real life since we read Amelia being restored from a backup because "surprise, Tohu and Bohu bitches."

edit seems like Lisa is on te track to figuring things out. Which is good because Eidolon's subconscious has probably gotten real tired of Panthenon's shit by now.

 

[kenhikaru]

Really? They're actually flat up weaker than the original three. Frankly, none of mine are even on part with Tohu, Bohu, or Khonsu. They're just really fucking hard to kill. And less subtle in their functions.



Wrong. The point of the Endbringers, what makes them meaningful, is how destructive they are- not to property or people- but to hope. That even when you fight them with everything you have, they're going to win and they're not even really trying. The desperation and fear they create.

That's what makes the Endbringers better than just another cheap monster of the week. Not the battles themselves, but the aftermath and the suffering that comes from it, and the spiral of decay that they create.


.... It does amuse me that they're so good at it that it effects the readers. Best. Unintentional compliment. Ever.

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I have no problems with the EBs getting to the point they're at. It makes sense that they'd drop offense for defense when they're being killed. It's just annoying how survivable these bastards are. Also, I want Levi to show up so they can kill him.

Edit:

"Then we'll report it as destroyed," Chevalier responded. "After Chongqing and Bucharest and now this, we need to be able to claim a victory. A destroyed Endbringer is a victory, even with the price being this high." GuiltShameFailure.

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Why do I feel like this is going to backfire? Also, any chance we'll get to see Alexandria's reaction when Lisa tells her?

 

[cosoco]

"They... how?" I muttered. HorrorGuiltFailure. Oh god, we destroyed Brockton Bay. For fucking nothing.

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This is hilarious.

started with.

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started with."

What type of wedding dresses would Taylor and/or Amelia wear?

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It'll be made out of a fabric that exists in five dimensions. Merely looking at it will cause a normal mind to have stroke.

The officiating authority, I'm not sure about. Could be Dragon, could be someone else. I presume they would be married on Avalon, so they can use whoever they want to preside over the ceremony.

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One of the Endbringers will attack the Vatican. The Pope will be so grateful to Pantheon for protecting the city that he'll offer to officiate their wedding.

GuiltPainLoss. How much of that is her feelings, how much of it mine? In all honesty, most of it was probably her. I wasn't all that fond of Brockton Bay. Its corruption and bullshit ran straight up to the top. Sure, when we needed to, we exploited the fuck out of it, but that wasn't something that made me like it any better. If anything, that just made me hate it that much more. Dad's going to be ruined, though.

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Seems like a taste of politics has ruined Taylor's idealism.

 

[Snake/Eater]

"We can do other things to help," Crystal offered, the same soft voice that she used to comfort me when I was dealing with the combined weight of my guilt and Amelia's. She'll make an amazing mother, some day. "We already accept refugees. Maybe we can alter the policy some. Offer, like, temporary citizenship or whatever. A few square miles might not be much, but we can set aside a thousand miles of space on Avalon without so much as blinking an eye. Restore the portal, rebuild our Embassy space, at least. Trying to rebuild the city overnight is impossible. But as long as we keep our portal here, people will have reason to return." ReliefGratitudeHope.

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Noncanon omake
And in that moment,Crystal Pelham who was whispered to be the Heart of Pantheon,gave hope to the meny Refugees who had lost their homes that Day.in return the new citizens of Avalon thanked her by all voting to name their new city Crystal Bay.from then on she would forever be called The Grail of Avalon.

,............
That's my first omake....I thought it would be bigger. I wrote like it was a excerpt form a children's history textbook.

 

[Mogget]

Well Lisa at the very least figured out that the people making the Endbringers want Eidolon to show up as a hero every time. Whether or not she got to the next conclusion is up in the air.

 

[cyberswordsmen]

I disagree. The toll is still there, the way the characters respond, the way they experience the situation. You can't see how they're wearing down? How it crushes their morale. That's what I'm going for. Now the flashy stuff, but attrition. And I'm achieving it quite well, if your reactions are any indicator.

But, hey, if you don't like the way I write, you're free to not read. Bitching about it, which is what you're doing, achieves nothing.

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In universe the toil still exists. To the readers it is merely an informed attribute it happens to much and is now the status que for us and no longer interesting. It was well written at first and in some ways it still is but it has gone on too long to retain emotional impact. It is routine for us now.

Your best stuff has come from character interactions. I recommended bringing the endbringers storyline to an end in some way, and move on to more social/political conflicts again. You seem to have started tomove forward on this with Lisa's realization in the latest chapter. You have a great setup for the move to social conflict already with them becoming god empresses of a planet full of eccentric settlers.

 

[pepperjack]

Well Lisa at the very least figured out that the people making the Endbringers want Eidolon to show up as a hero every time. Whether or not she got to the next conclusion is up in the air.

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I'm reasonably confident that she not only got it, she told Alexandria with her eyes. Rebecca's not upset because Lisa didn't tell her; she's upset because David is the Endmaker.

 

[EragonVsHarry]

You might have a point there if it failed on everyone. But so far, it only seems to be small, if vocal, minority of them that aren't getting it. So, y'know, can't please everyone or haters gonna hate or whatever it is they're saying to be dismissive these days.

Can't lie, though. Still enjoying the fact that these complaints are only when are going badly for the characters. Means I've evoked proper reader sympathy.

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You're definitely right, it isnt failing on everyone. I am getting some of the feels, so you're doing something right

 

[edale]

All these comments about the impact of endbringer fights and such.

Personally, I think if the Endbringer fights aren't creating the anticipated reactions it's not a problem with the Endbringer fights at all; it's that the high points aren't scaling to match.

You've gone from high point (white) to low point (black) over and over. White to black to white to black....but it seems recently it's been going more grey to black to grey to black.....get my meaning?

The high points aren't as high, so it's not as much of a drop getting to the low points.

Also, destruction of BB would have had more impact if it happened before Avalon was publicly known. Main setting of the story has already changed to Avalon over BB, so the loss of BB isn't as much of an issue.

Now dealing with the loss of BB while doing all the Avalon setup stuff would have been nice. Mourning their old home while creating their new home? Priceless. This is more like moving to a new home, then having your old home burn down; yea it hurts, but not nearly as much as if you still lived there.

It took another four minutes before Shaman finally spoke again. "That's it," he gasped. "I've let go of everything I had in there. If it's still alive, it's not my fault. If it's dead, I demand top billing." FearHopeAnticipationUncertainty.

"Give in another minute," Lisa instructed. "You okay in there, Atropos?"

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Give it another minute? Give me another minute? not quite sure what you're trying to say, but as written it doesn't make sense.

"Look at it this way," Atropos piped up. "Kill an Endbringer once, you're the big damn hero once. Kick the shit out of an Endbringer and it gets away, you're a big damn hero once a year."

"Oh. Oh fuck." Minerva muttered.

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And TN proves me wrong about what was needed for Lisa to make the connection to Eidolon. Should have expected that; even if I was right by the original plan, he would have changed it to make me wrong.

 

[Ack]

I love the interactions. Personally, I can do interactions, although I struggle at times (and the number of dead-end conversations I've had to rewrite could fill a HCtBB-sized volume) but a well-done conversation with feels and humour and snark and makes-me-grin bits ... is well worth reading.

And I'll keep reading, because I want to know what happens next, dammit!

Also, I know how hard it is sometimes to keep on writing the story.

But I'll just say ... maybe because I have a personal bias toward leaving the characters a little better off at the end of the chapter than at the beginning (that's the fix fic author in me) and because I hate to see characters that I care for struggle, and strive, and put their all into something, and do their absolute DAMNEDEST to improve their lot, only to have something come along and "lolNOPE" their efforts ... (that's the RPGer in me).

Don't get me wrong. Struggle and challenge is good. I like to see characters look up and go, "Oh fuck me. They've got a cave troll." Or whatever the latest thing is. But speaking as a GM and player in tabletop RPGs (going back nearly 30 years now) there's nothing that hooks a player in harder than a well-executed plan that actually goes right. Just for once. And they know it won't work a second time. But the hope is now there that they can out-think Fate (or the GM, which counts as more or less the same thing) to do it again, with the next Big Bad that wanders over the hill in their direction. And that moment after the win, when they're all high-fiving each other, and looking around, and going "You know what? That fucking rocked." That's the moment you know they'll keep coming back to the table. It's a moment they'll talk about, in and out of character, for years to come. "Remember the time when my character ... ?"

Also, as a GM, yes there is a certain satisfaction in outwitting your players, leaving them to realise at the last moment that they had the victory in their grasp, only if they'd understood your hints earlier. But it's kind of hollow, because you're not sharing the enjoyment; it's yours alone.

On the other hand, there's the enjoyment that you get when your players figure it out, and get it right, and push through the odds, and win. And they turn to you, and they're all stoked, and they say, "that was freaking awesome!" Not because you made it easy, or safe. Because you didn't. But because they had a challenge, and they faced it, and they beat it. And they're just loving the game.

The thing that many GMs never figure out is that players need a win. Even if it's a small one, once in a while. The endless, horrible grind of trying to get somewhere, do anything to change your horrible circumstances, and always failing, always losing any improvements you manage to put together. Found some gold? Have to spend it on healing for the rogue, because of that poison needle trap. Got a better sword? Well, good thing you did, because if you hadn't, you'd all be dead right now.

Players like to be able to think that their improvements are actually giving them a chance to win, rather than the GM looking at their capabilities and assigning the monsters "party +1" capabilities. Which is, to be fair, what the current Pantheon situation was really looking like. They build up, get more awesome stuff ... and the Endbringers come in and go, "Oh, that's cute."

I have to say, this one's a pretty good win. They lost Brockton Bay, but they beat an Endbringer. Eventually.

I'd still like to see an Endbringer rock on in, prepared for the latest and greatest powerset, and be taken down by something that they stopped using because it was no longer effective. That would be hilarious. And awesome.

 

[Finbar]

I agree with Ack there.

As an Example:
In a Pathfinder game a few months ago, we witnessed a Hero (note the capitalization) kill an elder Wyrm Abyssal Dragon. So we do the only logical thing. We wander over, praise the hero, and sneak a bit of it's hide, allowing us to find out where its hoarde is and hurry there to loot it before anyone else. We got through the Traps. We got through the Guardians (only just) and walk in, to find......it had a Mate and she is right in front of us. We are tired, half our HP and spells are gone, we are out of potions.......and it attacks.

Now, it should have done horrible things to us rather quickly and then even more horrible things to our corpses...

However, in the first round, I somehow managed to break it's Spell Resistance and land 'Hold Monster'. The single most powerful spell in my arsenal, that had been useless up until now. The GM rolled the Saving Throw in front of us, smirking about how it needed a 2 or better on 1d20 and how we would need to hurry our actions, as he had plans for a campaign with us as slaves of the Abyssal Dragon.

He rolled a 1

That situation is going to stay for us for years, as we won against overwhelming odds, using a tactic that should NOT have worked.

How does this apply to the fic? (Aside from me wanting to take the chance to boast)

The next Endbringer, it's going to have to 'deal' with the Endslayers and their power combo. It's got to deal with Victoria, with the two who may or may not have killed Banshee, with several other factors as the Parahuman forces ramp up more and more Endbringer Slaying Combos.

How should it be taken down? Alexandria's brute strength and flight. Legend's un-earthy Lasers and most importantly, Eidolon picking just the RIGHT combo of powers to finish it off, proving to the world that while other's can team up to take down an Endbringer, only HE can have it moved into place by his team-mates and finish it off himself.

David has seen Endbringers die. He saw The Simurgh die, taking out India, he saw Behemoth taken out in China, with a City ruined in the process. He saw Banshee taken out, loosing a large Town in the process.
He knows deep down now, they can be beaten. He has seen how power combinations and team-work are the way to do it. He can really believe that this time, he can take one down. He won't have to fight a holding action. He wont have to spend so much of his energy simply preventing collateral damage like he did in Brockton Bay against Leviathan. He can go all out and with his Team, finish one for good. He knows his Power can grab the right three powers to combine them for best effect. He has the additional confidence of the 'recharge' power and suit. He has advantages he never had before.

Time to step up and show these children and newcomers how to win, Old School Style.

That is what has been holding him back. He knows he can go all out against an Endbringer, that it can tank most things and it takes hundreds of lives to slow one down. He's seen the costs. Now, he knows how to beat one.

Time for him to Shine as the world's Strongest Hero.

And to top it off......Leviathan is next. Simurgh destroyed minds and set off time-bombs. Behemoth was the first. However, Leviathan has destroyed the most amount of Territory, and has crushed an entire Nation.

Now, he knows what to do, how to do it. He has the tools, the motivation and ability to win.

Who knows how that will affect the other Endbringers? With David having killed one and re-proven his strength against the strongest of challengers. Maybe now, he can put away the chip on his shoulder.

 

[Alterego9]

Wrong. The point of the Endbringers, what makes them meaningful, is how destructive they are- not to property or people- but to hope. That even when you fight them with everything you have, they're going to win and they're not even really trying. The desperation and fear they create.

Click to shrink...

Except that they are supposed to destroy hope by killing people. Without that, the next Endbringer might as well be a teddy bear that just sits there, and we are told that it's terrifying and can't be killed.

It just becomes an informed attribute that they create desperation and fear, when as far as the reader is concerned they just create ennui, and then the characters obligatorily start to act like they are in despair.

You have made it clear that you want to write a story where the main characters' survival is explicitly not in question, and that's great as a premise. The rest of the story could be about personal relationships, politics, asskicking, or whatever. Going up against big bad monsters that can't do real harm, is not terrifying, (they can harm othe protagonists), and not exciting (the protagonists can't harm them), it's just tiresome.

 

[tarrangar]

I personally like the Endbringer fights.

 

[tordg]

Except that they are supposed to destroy hope by killing people. Without that, the next Endbringer might as well be a teddy bear that just sits there, and we are told that it's terrifying and can't be killed.

It just becomes an informed attribute that they create desperation and fear, when as far as the reader is concerned they just create ennui, and then the characters obligatorily start to act like they are in despair.

Click to shrink...

Where this falls apart is Scion. If they can't lolnope an endbringer, then they've got no chance in hell of beating him (excepting, of course, the canon method, which they don't have the data to have it occur to them, though they are close). That is where the despair that the endbringers are supposed to create in the main cast comes from. As far as the general populace is concerned they are failing at their job, but they don't matter. Eidolon matters, and according to him they are succeeding. Still. And at the jobs he doesn't know about too. And it sucks. A lot.

Now I will grant that I too am feeling complacent about the endbringer battles at this point, but I also know that that's because I, personally, have lost focus on the big picture. I cannot reasonably expect TanaNari to direct my attention more towards that big picture than he already does. He spends a lot of time on it as is and I have a sneaking suspicion that doing more would actually be worse for the story. I will also note that the fact that this story makes me work for my enjoyment plays a fairly big part in my investment in it. Similarly with Ra, HPMOR, Homestuck, and precious few others that I've come across.

 

[edale]

Similarly with Ra, HPMOR, Homestuck, and precious few others that I've come across.

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I know HPMOR, but not familiar with the other two. What fandom are they? Links? Always looking for another good story to read.

 

[abyssmal_kismet]

I know HPMOR, but not familiar with the other two. What fandom are they? Links? Always looking for another good story to read.

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I don't know about Ra, but Homestuck is Homestuck.

 

[tordg]

PMs sent, to minimize thread clutter.

 

[Daunmi]

Hmm, I don't think Lisa worked out who's making/controlling the Endbringers. I think she just worked out why the Endbringers are doing things the way they're doing, which might help point the way in the long run.

 

[dasstan]

David has seen Endbringers die. He saw The Simurgh die, taking out India, he saw Behemoth taken out in China, with a City ruined in the process. He saw Banshee taken out,

Click to shrink...

Did... I somehow manage to miss an endbringer? Who is Banshee?

 

[Finbar]

Did... I somehow manage to miss an endbringer? Who is Banshee?

Click to shrink...

Whoops.....I meant Wendigo.

Why the hell would I get two completely seperate mythologies confused?

I blame a lack of alcohol.

 

[Beyogi]

Um... why can't Amelia just get creative with Yggdrasil and build a new city? Have it process stone and sand to concrete and metals pulled out of the earth to steel and have it create the skeleton of a city within. Maybe create some interesting carbon combinations/super woods for the buildings.That way she won't have to maintain it much, it'll basically be like a "normal" city build over a lake.