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Complete Detachment (Star Wars Prequel SI)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by 9adam4, Feb 1, 2019.

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  1. Winged One

    Winged One Not the Simurgh

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    Well, I'd definitely leave the working with Palpatine off. ;)
     
  2. Ashaeron

    Ashaeron Getting sticky.

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    Honestly? Yeah, probably. I've long been of the opinions that large governmental bodies, particularly parliamentary ones, are useless. Either they're ineffectual and constantly self-conflicting, or they're corrupt as hell. Circumventing that according to my principles, if I had the means, is probably something I'd do.
     
  3. Prince Charon

    Prince Charon Just zis guy, you know?

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    I would think very carefully about it, and look for alternatives, but if I could not find a better option, I guess I'd have to.

    On another note, is Partha Nillis a canon character? She's pretty disturbing, but sadly not implausible. I wonder if she'll be expelled from the Order and end up joining the Sith. She's already acting a bit like one.
     
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  4. AzureShogun

    AzureShogun Getting some practice in, huh?

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    Hero Grevious GET. I found a great Grevious SI on SV earlier, its nice to see Grevious getting some appreciation.
     
  5. 9adam4

    9adam4 No emotion, only "peace"

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    No, Partha is my invention. Because Olana's appearance in canon following her rescue is limited to a few paragraphs, including her as a major character necessitates the addition of more non-canon material.

    The period between Episode 1 and Episode 2 has some EU treatment but it's rather sparse. I'll be making up more.
     
  6. MrHam31

    MrHam31 Getting sticky.

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    Obi appears unassailable, finding out what was going on and protecting himself, while being aware of what Partha was trying to accomplish. If Partha went to another Jedi Knight, would she have succeeded? Because, while insidious, her telepathy is impressive, but she's still an initiate. She can plausibly run roughshod with Initiates and Padawans, but Knights and higher should be a cut above the rest.

    I hope he didn't just forget about it and gave a heads up to the Battlemaster, or a Master of the Council. Someone to let her know that's not cool. Gently though, no need to push her to Sith arms.
     
  7. Genodragoon

    Genodragoon Getting out there.

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    Hoping they hadle Partha delicately. Obi already went over with Olana that biology can negatively impact choices so Partha being a Zeltron with aptitude for telepathic compulsion could have made that slippery slope real easy for her. She will need a Master who can twist that talent to something good.
     
  8. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Not too sore, are you?

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    Yeah it comes off as skeevy, but look at it this way Zeltrons are natural empaths. The turned their world into space Vegas so no one would feel down. Not to say that when you run into a bad Zeltron it is a really bad Zeltron.

    As in one who’s learned to get their empath high from sadism. There’s an old New Sith Wars book I forget it’s name. Anyway one of the Sith Torturers was a Zel who went full Slaaneshi on his victims so he could get high off their experiences in his care.
     
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  9. 9adam4

    9adam4 No emotion, only "peace"

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    Does that mean that people wouldn't be in favor of killing Partha?
     
  10. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Not too sore, are you?

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    She’s a child. A conniving child using treachery and guile to achieve her aims, but a child nonetheless. I’d be surprised if you didn’t turn it around on her as an education in responsibily using Force Suggestions, and using her as an example for your Padawan in fishing out motives. The Zel girl isn’t suited to be your padawan, but the Jedi Shadows are a thing and I’d be surprised if they weren’t watching you anyway with the Antellan Rangers(Non Force Sensitivities who help out Jedi along with the Judiciary Forces.)
     
  11. seeing_octarine

    seeing_octarine Unverified Colour

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    Nah. Remember, killing people for misdemeanors is the path to Death Notethe Dark Side. You probably don't want to be Light... wait... you probably don't want to be *like* Light. Er, Yagami Light. You know what I mean.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  12. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Not too sore, are you?

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    Yeah you a Jedi fool Paragon until death.
     
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  13. Winged One

    Winged One Not the Simurgh

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    ...I mean, if I was there and being there hadn't changed me at all I'd probably consider it because I'm an unforgiving, emotional person and what she's done is vile. But the Jedi have different flaws than I do (which I don't think would apply here except inasmuch as they created the situation), and she's still young enough to train out of her evil ways.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
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  14. Oh I am slain!

    Oh I am slain! ?

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    Hrm, for better or worse, the drama with Partha does seem weirdly fitting. It meshes with the many EU writers who indicate to readers that the Jedi education systems are highly thought-out and advanced, yet the plots and characters show example after example of the Jedi education systems' incompetence. (And Jedi adults' incompetence in general.) :p

    I'm kinda disappointed that this setting's Jedi Order wasn't already experienced with handling Zeltron younglings or other species with similar capabilities. And going by what's been implied, I'm now guessing that this setting's Jedi Order isn't skilled enough to easily help Partha to change. Nor competent enough to redress this satisfactorily for both Olana and all the other kids who could have been affected and will forever remember this event. Maybe they won't even try.

    Separately, I'm guessing I'll be kinda disappointed when we get further confirmation that Partha really was responsible for a majority of Olana's academic issues, instead of those issues having developed organically. For me, this'll always somewhat taint the joy of seeing Adam-wan Kenobi mentor her in the long-term to shore up her weaknesses and extend her strengths.

    IMO, I'd have been more interested in a Partha figure who had her villainy be far less encompassing of her entire character, as presented by the narrative. Either with substantially more redeeming qualities alongside her villainy, or with far less intentional malice for her villainy towards Olana.

    Then again, I suppose sometimes it's simply fun to throw an evil, socially manipulative kid against the 'good' protagonist's team. So...sure, why not.

    ---
    Edit: Huh, I probably jumped to diagnoses and prescriptions too quickly. Upon further thought, it could be something else entirely that's bugging me.

    For example, maybe Partha's introduction & villainy felt melodramatic not only because of her single-note characterization, but also the abruptness of her characterization's start and finish?

    I suppose there was some foreshadowing, from us learning about Olana's academic issues.

    Though, the range of reader expectations might not have considered the cause to be "a friendly Zeltron classmate OC was maliciously using mind control to sabotage Olana for years, never was suspected till now, is the only significant named character (besides Anakin and the narrative-favored Olana) to suddenly be vying for Obi-Wan as their Jedi master, is perhaps the only prominent plot-affecting named OC thus far, was introduced in one chapter, has already had her entire characterization revealed, and has already had the narrative finish passing judgment on her".

    Alright, I ought to clean all this up to be more helpful, instead of merely splattering the page with incomplete thoughts. But I gotta go finish other things. >_>

    I'll put all of this in a spoiler then, since all of the diagnoses and prescriptions could be wrong and tangential. Hrm. I'll just say that the overall 'symptom' from the past two chapters was enjoyment for the overall chapter, but mixed with a few occasional bits of confusion and disbelief.
     
  15. Threadmarks: Ch. 24 - Compassion
    9adam4

    9adam4 No emotion, only "peace"

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    “Room for one more, do you have?”

    Qui-Gon, Dooku, and I each stopped at the hatch of the diplomatic transport and turned to see the ancient Grinzellian Grandmaster slowly move toward us.

    “My apologies, Master Yoda.” I stepped down to offer him a hand onto the ramp. “I had understood you had declined to accompany us.” As usual, I felt nothing but a warm, diffuse mind as he got closer - a smooth and placid will, marred by no strong emotion.

    “Changed, my mind can still sometimes be,” he mused, glancing at Dooku as he climbed the ramp with my assistance. “Very persuasive our new Count of Serenno is.”

    This earned surprised looks from me and my Master… former Master. “Has your title been restored so soon?” Qui-Gon inquired of Dooku as we took our seats. I lit gingerly at the pilot controls; since it appeared I had retained both the original Kenobi’s dislike of flying and his talent for it, I found myself at the helm any time I couldn’t pawn it off on Anakin or someone else.

    “Not formally, no,” Dooku explained. “I believe Master Yoda is referring to the recent Council decision. I will be allowed to vie for my title without having to give up my position on the Jedi Council.”

    I nodded thanks to R2 as he laid in a carefully plotted course to Kamino. It included three hyper-jumps to intervening systems, only one of which was included in the flight plan filed on Coruscant. Apparently the Clone Army was going to stay a secret of the Jedi Council for the time being.

    “Provided,” Yoda added, “that perform his duties to the Order, Dooku can, without interference from his role as Count.”

    I tuned out the Masters’ conversation as I eased us out of the Temple hangar, moving us smoothly through the upper atmosphere and past the orbit of the planet’s four moons, until I was cleared to enter hyperspace. R2 double-checked the calculations and nav sensors, and engaged the drive.

    “... exploits of our newest young Knight and his apparent learner-to-be,” Qui-Gon was saying as I swiveled my chair around to face him. “You wanted to discuss your handling of an issue that arose this past week, yes?”

    “Mmmm,” I agreed, although I was less enthusiastic about having the conversation with Yoda present. Still, he took a personal role in the training of every Padawan, and he certainly had the right to know, as did the prospective Count. “Partha Nellis came to me to, ah, ‘warn’ me about Olana’s issues in making decisions under pressure. She suggested I make a better choice for Padawan.”

    “Like her?” Qui-Gon asked.

    I nodded. “But it wasn’t just a suggestion… it was a suggestion. Strong telepathic pushes the entire time.”

    I felt concern from Dooku as well, but it was a surprised Qui-Gon who asked, “Actual mental compulsion, or just emotion?”

    “Emotion,” I clarified, “but strong, and clearly designed to push me towards agreement with her. I’m surprised she wasn’t more cautious considering the amount of mental training that a Jedi Knight is expected to have.”

    Qui-Gon shook his head. “Most Jedi, particularly Guardians as opposed to Consulars, don’t gain the sort of awareness you’ve trained yourself in, Obi-wan. Yes, they learn mental defenses, but it’s much more like putting up a forcefield than learning to identify and respond to specific threats.” He glanced at Dooku and Yoda. “She’s a telepathic species?”

    “Zeltron,” I confirmed. “Emotionally empathic, and natural broadcasters.”

    “Than any push felt by her teachers, the ones strong enough not to be affected, would likely be dismissed as her automatic abilities. We had an Iktotchi sister when I was a youngling, and it was the same with her.” Qui-Gon met Dooku’s gaze and got an acknowledging nod.

    “I have been working on Olana’s skill and confidence, so she can pass her final initiate Trial,” I continued, “but I now believe that Partha has targeted her.”

    This received a stronger spark from Dooku, but it was Qui-Gon who again spoke. “Targeted her to disrupt her concentration during tests?”

    I nodded. “Over the last three years, Olana has received top marks only twice. Both those were times I was able to verify that Partha was elsewhere.”

    “Did you confront the girl about her actions directly,” Dooku asked, “or did you bring it to her instructors? Telepathic intrusion over many years may have effects they should be aware of.”

    “Neither,” I said, and received another spark of surprise from both men. “I spoke with Olana about her relationship with Partha, and urged her to consider the situation and resolve it by the time we return.”

    Qui-Gon nodded. “A Trial of a different kind. I can understand that. But it only addresses the problem with respect to Olana. It doesn’t deal with Partha herself.”

    “Once Olana has overcome the obstacle,” I agreed, “Partha herself can be dealt with easily.”

    That got a narrowing look from Qui-Gon. “Dealt with, how, Obi-wan?”

    “Discreetly and permanently,” I replied, my gaze matching his.

    A small, amphibious throat cleared, and I started as I was reminded of the other Master in the room. “Fortunate, we are, my brothers,” Master Yoda announced, “that such a brave Jedi Knight we have as our savior.” I noticed his ears were lowered, almost flat, and the eyes in his wrinkled face were large and bright as he stared into me. “More wise than any of us, he is, the role of judge and executioner to play.” As he continued to speak, I felt his mind expand toward mine, a constant soft pressure like an unrelenting breeze. “Safe we can feel, knowing that even a ten-year-old girl, beyond the reach of his deadly blade is not.”

    The Grandmaster’s mockery had its desired effect, and I forced myself to rise above the shame I felt from his chiding words as I answered him. “Partha has been doing this to Olana for three years, and to who knows how many others? I would not kill her out of malice, Master; simply from a knowledge of the path she has chosen, and the harm it brings.”

    “Sense no malice in you, can I. True this much is,” Yoda conceded. “Yet, a subtler flaw I see. A flaw that to the Dark Side can also lead.”

    The ancient Grinzellian climbed down from his seat and limped slowly over to me. I bent down in my own chair until our noses nearly touched. Finally he said, in almost a whisper, “Compassion you lack. Through all living things, the Force flows. Great evil one can carry out, in the name of a greater good, when justice one pursues without compassion.

    He held my gaze for a minute longer, and I received his mind as it reached into mine. He made no attempt to push anywhere or move anything; he was simply looking. After a minute, he gave a nod and a small grunt of assent, and turned to return to his seat. “Under our watch for some time, Partha Nellis has been. Much to learn she still has, but committed to a Dark path she is not.”

    I felt my own surprise at this claim by the Grandmaster. “What Partha has been doing… the Order is already aware of it? The Temple trainers?”

    Yoda barely nodded, while Qui-Gon spoke up with an exasperated sigh. “We have dealt with this so many times, Obi-wan. Your unique knowledge doesn’t mean you are the only one who sees or does anything in the Order.”

    “If you knew, why hasn’t anything been done?” I tried hard to stifle the rising anger and defensiveness I felt on my student’s behalf. “Why permit Olana to be attacked in this way?”

    “If talk to their teachers you had, as was your responsibility,” Yoda said with some satisfaction, “then know their reasoning you would.” He turned to face me again as he made it up into his too-tall chair. “For now, contemplate the matter you can.

    “But, this much I say to you, my young savior.” Yoda’s mind pushed at me, and I realized I didn’t have the strength to resist him even if I had wanted to try. For the first time in a decade I heard him speak with genuine, incontrovertible force. “Harm Partha Nellis you will not. Your student, Olana is, and your Padawan she will be. How you have taught her so far, I greatly approve. But to judge over others of the Order, your role is not, Obi-wan.”

    “Yes, Master,” was all I said, and turned my chair back to the helm.

    For much of the rest of the journey to Kamino, I thought about what Master Yoda had said, and about my own role and my relationship with the Order. The most intriguing element for me, though, was that I felt no resentment towards the Grandmaster. Even when his mind met mine as he was scolding me, I sensed no contempt for me, no disgust at what I had planned. He cared, genuinely, that I learn a better way and make better decisions. He had compassion in abundance, even for me.

    Qui-Gon had shown and taught me the same ideas for years, on a smaller and subtler scale, and I had rejected the lessons as unnecessary attachment. Perhaps my calculations were overly cold, and that could lead me to destroy what might otherwise be redeemed.

    One thing was certain: I would watch the training of Partha Nellis with great interest.
     
  16. Winged One

    Winged One Not the Simurgh

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    I wasn't expecting that. I figured he'd go to the Council, but with a plan to kill the kid?
     
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  17. 9adam4

    9adam4 No emotion, only "peace"

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    He didn't go to the Council. He just didn't explicitly lie about his plan when asked.
     
  18. 9adam4

    9adam4 No emotion, only "peace"

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    As an aside, I find it very difficult to write Yoda's syntax correctly. I'm still not convinced I got it all right in that chapter.
     
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  19. Celtic Bard

    Celtic Bard Reality continues to ruin my life

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    You know for a while, this Obi-Wan felt really arrogant to me. He was too sure in his knowledge and felt like he didn't consider any other alternatives and there were some other subtle things that me feel this way. I didn't know but whether this was intentional or not, but:
    You've pretty much hit the nail on its head. I think you've done well with this part. This is a problem with many SI. The world around them magically bands to accommodate their wishes and your handling of this issue was great.
     
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  20. MrHam31

    MrHam31 Getting sticky.

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    [​IMG]
    The fuck is wrong with him, how can he write off a 10 year old like that?

    No, seriously, this seems out of character. He killed Watto, despicable that he was, after he sent thugs after them. Is Sidious subtly working his magic on him? And how he answered Qui-Gon, completely shameless.
     
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  21. 9adam4

    9adam4 No emotion, only "peace"

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    Do I need to address this further in the narrative for it to make sense?
     
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  22. MrHam31

    MrHam31 Getting sticky.

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    If Obi has a reason for that, that he'll meditate on or confess to someone, like Qui-Gon for instance takes him later aside to figure out why his first reaction was to kill a 10 year old, then no. I'll wait for that scene/chapter.

    But if it was a conclusion of thoughts and actions that reveal why he would suggest something like that, something I missed, then I need help figuring it out.
     
  23. 9adam4

    9adam4 No emotion, only "peace"

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    Consider his internal monologue at the beginning of Chapter 16.

    Obi-wan's instinct on encountering threats to Anakin, Olana, or Shmi is going to be quite extreme. It's because Partha targeted Olana that the "obvious" response is to remove the threat.

    There's not much more to it than that; I hope that was helpful.
     
  24. Celtic Bard

    Celtic Bard Reality continues to ruin my life

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    I think the issue here is that it feels like there are no consequences for his actions. This has been happening from the very beginning when Obi-wan decided to kill Gunray. Even Yoda's reaction felt like a reprimand at best.
     
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  25. Rinn

    Rinn Coffee Addict

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    Yeah, yeah, morality debate, whatever. I saw something a great deal more concerning in thus this chapter:

    U Wot m8?

    Dafuq is this? Lucasfilm and associates have been particularly anal about NEVER giving information about Yoda's species and culture of origin, to the point that they ordered an entire run of a particular TCG card pulped because the card art depicted a set of Yoda-like beings worshipping a Yoda-like idol.

    We know that they were a species, because of Yaddle and that one guy from KOTOR, but nothing else. Wherever did you pull a species name from. Before you answer, anything Disney pulled out of the decaying corpse they've turned the main franchise into doesn't count, and you should know better.
     
  26. Belenus

    Belenus Know what you're doing yet?

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    He did say he has natural sociopathic tendencies.

    Gonna be honest, I didn't see it coming either, but that was mostly because it's illogical to kill an initiate for something like this. If Partha weren't a member of the Jedi, under the protection of people Obi-Wan trusts and respects, I'd have expected her to be dead already.

    Note, I don't agree with the course of action, I just see how it fits with established characterization.


    ETA: I really like how you wrote Yoda here. Everyone gets his wisdom and skill, not everyone sees the kind teacher who has raised small children for 500 years. He might not be perfect, but he cares. For reference, remember Yoda's reaction during Order 66 in RotS. He taught nearly every one of those Jedi, and then felt them all die.
     
  27. Winged One

    Winged One Not the Simurgh

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    ...that's just giving more ammo to the modern Jedi view on attachment.
    Well, they're Jedi. Mind control works perfectly well for prevention, and in this case apparently lead to less resentment.
     
  28. Belenus

    Belenus Know what you're doing yet?

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    I somehow doubt that Yoda is using a mind trick here. Remember, they're telepaths. They're not necessarily going to think the same way you or I do. Obi-Wan can understand where Yoda is coming from because he can literally feel those thoughts. And the reverse is true as well, Yoda can tell exactly where Obi-Wan is coming from and why he was ready to shank a pre-teen in the face.
    This is why the Jedi are about conflict resolution rather than law enforcement, they genuinely understand where both sides are coming from. Only a psychopath wouldn't want to resolve things well for both parties when they are empathizing with both.
    Also why the Jedi go straight for violence when the Sith (and other acceptable targets) are involved. They can understand exactly what that enemy is feeling, and that there is no middle ground to be found.
     
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  29. 9adam4

    9adam4 No emotion, only "peace"

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    Grinzel is a planet on the near side of Unknown Space. The Grinzellians are a small pre-industrial species that primarily inhabit lowlands and swamps on account of being prey for much larger carnivore species.

    Two space-faring cultures in Wild Space occassionally hunt the larger carnivore species for sport. Because Grinzellians are compulsively curious climbers and burrowers, one has occasionally made its way onto a landed craft and inadvertantly been taken on departure. They are viewed as great curiosities, and since they have naturally long lifespans, a handful have made their way across Wild Space into the Republic.

    The neat thing about nothing official having ever be said about Yoda's planet and species - including it never having been said in-universe that his species is unknown or mysterious - is that I can make up whatever I want and have it be common knowledge.
     
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  30. Ashaeron

    Ashaeron Getting sticky.

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    As the author has noted, just because we, the viewers/readers have no canon information, doesn't mean that the in-setting universe also has no information. If anything, that's hilariously unlikely, given the sapient members of the species right there.

    Just means he can create his own for it, as there's nothing established by Lucasfilm.
     
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