Dungeon Delver Quest (Original Fantasy... again)

[X] Linnea
[X] You could use someone magically inclined
[X] See who shows up.

Also, yrsillar, I thought we got a passive when our Job got to C?

Incidentally:

Seems like there is quite a few skills keying off Presence. If we do find a good weapon it could be interesting to switch proficiency there, but I am more interested by Adamant's body/Warrior's Intent/Moutain's Fury/Blaze.

Glad that there are quite a few of those choices, so shards aren't quite useless yet.

Apart from that, really annoyed we didn't go for Will as this will make our options much more limited for a while, but hopefully people will actually agree to put point there soon so we don't keep a gigantic weakness that makes us a liability whenever there is a caster around.

 

[X] Linnea
[X] You could use someone magically inclined
[X] See who shows up.

 

Urk. Looking at stat caps as well as the blurbs of Warrior's Challenge and Warrior's Intent, we would want to invest on Presence, sooner or later, if we want to do a good job being a Tank.

I also would want to pick up Adamant Body and Mountain's Fury to be a better Warrior, as well as Drink and Brew, for flavor.

Heh, eating Ingredients... That brings back memories of Skyrim.

EDIT: Ooops, votes.

[X] Linnea
[X] Du-na-na, um, you mean, whatever that androgynous purple fellow's name
[X] See who shows up

[X] Buy Adamant Body

 

[X] Linnea
[X] Du didn't seem like a bad sort, seek him out
[X] You could use someone magically inclined

 

yrsillar Could we take Du and try to find the twins before they go into the tower? I am...intrigued by the potential synergy between a guy that enhances items and a guy that uses combat dolls.

 

[X] Linnea
[X] You could use someone magically inclined
[X] See who shows up.

 

I honestly expect to eventually have all the skills at C rank, even the other weapon types. Simple because going above C rank is limited by rarer things like slabs. But that is in the long term. In the short term I agree with arkeus.

 

[X] Linnea
[X] Du didn't seem like a bad sort, seek him out
[X] You could use someone magically inclined

 

Hmm.

New skills are all neat, and cheap to pick up, which is nice. I guess it would be 20 shards each to take them to rank C? (5 to buy at E, 5 for D, 10 for C) So 200 shards to cap all of them out at what we can do with shards (plus another 30 for our current D skills). Should at least be able to manage the more interesting ones by the end of the week.

If I were to pick a top 3 (for a short-term focus), I'd probably go with: Adamant Body, Warrior's Intent, and Drink.


Stats... That's rougher. If we continue to get 2 stat points per level, it will take 36 levels to cap out our current potential. We have 5 'good' stats (potential of 12+), and we'll want to build up agility as well. Maybe dex, too, if we want to be a decent brewer. >.> Regardless, that's going to be sloooow.

If we're lucky, our stat point gains will have gone up with our job rank upgrade. If we got 2 per level at E, might get 4 at C. Maybe 5 if it works like attack dice (ie: 1 + 1@E/2@D/4@C). That could take it down to as little as 15 levels total, and we could be well on our way in just 3 levels or so. Won't know until our next level-up, though.

If we do get 5 per level, next level I'd probably go for 4 Will/1 Str (putting both at 6), then the level after that get 5 Presence (putting it at 6).


For the skill upgrades we got:

The passive improvement on greatclub is quite nice. Reducing enemy armor on every attack will stack up very quickly. Steel Whirlwind, on the other hand... I guess it would be good if we were swarmed by a huge number of adds, since at that point it would be pointless to worry about the loss of armor.

Warrior's Challenge is more of the same. Be nicer once we've boosted Presence some. Breaker and Steel Stomach also have nice improvements.

I wouldn't have any complaint about boosting our current D skills to C, but I suspect there would be greater draw in buying new skills up to D for the same 10 shards.

And hey, we'll probably have 5 spare shards before we enter the tower tomorrow (currently at 8, and spending 1 on breakfast), since we ended up trading for the Berserker's Elixir instead of paying for it out of pocket. Maybe pick up Adamant Body on the way in? I'm guessing +1D defense at rank E.

Voting thoughts are getting too long. Will make another post.

 

[X] Murdan
[X] Linnea
[X] Du didn't seem like a bad sort, seek him out

We already have someone magically inclined. Accept no substitutes

 

As for who to take.. looks like everyone loves Linnea.

I'd very much like to see how Du's power works in practice. We know it affects equipment quality. And actually.. if he's managed to raise his skill up and can give +2 quality to Yuuka's armor, that'd bump her up to the "can't hurt me" level against the types of mobs we were fighting last time (need a 5D+2 attack to break a 5% chance of doing damage). Even with just a +1 armor quality, it'd be hard to more than scratch her.

If we go with both Du and Linnea, we'll have to go deep to find anything that'd be considered a challenge. And at that point we'll need some solid help on the offense side.

Ansom had a mix of friendliness and solitariness, though she said she'd look us up when things started getting tougher. With the armor boost we triggered, I would not be surprised if she showed up.

Now, Du+Ansom... Yuuka is tanky, and Ansom has her ridiculous luck to avoid damage. Then have Du enhancing both of their weapons and armor.. That team could probably sweep the armored zombie area with little trouble.

Lona is another magic user, but we also saw her with her last remaining knight (captain of the guard). If we tried to get her, would we end up getting the captain as well? That kinda pushes our team size up on the high side, leaving space for just one other, at most.

And then there's the brother/sister pair of alchemist and doll-maker (Inila and Gemnus). Could possibly team with them, though it leaves just one additional spot after that. Perhaps Du. Three crafters working together could make something scary, and Yuuka is a great way to keep mobs off them while they do their work. Should be able to make do without Linnea, because there should be a solid supply of healing potions.

Depends on whether Inila was offering an invite when she told Yuuka they were heading to the tower. She's definitely a stand-offish type, and probably plenty of people who are creeped out by Gemnus's dolls. The siblings are probably very used to doing things together. However I got the sense that she decided they were going into the tower on the spur of the moment. She would never ask outright, but a sort of backhanded invitation would fit her personality.

One might wonder how many adventurers start picking up anything but basic healing potions so early on. The elixirs are more expensive, and of specialized use. Yuuka being interested in her more advanced offerings may have tickled her interest a bit. Plus, bringing back a fair number of bonemeal ingredients on the second day means Yuuka is going fairly deep in the dungeon, which in turn means more opportunities for more valuable stuff.

Tactics-wise, Gemnus probably has a couple golems do most of the fighting for him. If we brought Du along, then Du can probably enhance the golems, making them more powerful combatants. Then Yuuka as a centerpoint, with Inila's potions backing her up. Or maybe explosives. The sarcophagi were destroyed with lots of alchemical explosives. I wonder if they go in to destroy the early area spawners? That'd be a fun thing to join in on with Yuuka's Breaker ability.


I'm going to guess that if we don't take this pseudo-offer from the alchemist, we likely won't get another chance to team up with them; at least, not for a while.

Du's current situation, and our triggering the "interested in my hobby" switch, means we could build a solid bond with him pretty quickly, here. If we don't, and he gets a good group tomorrow, his enthusiasm will likely switch his bond to them, and we'll have a harder time later on.

Constant scouting for healers means we may get competition for Linnea if we don't keep her solidly with us as a teammate. However we've already gotten our foot in the door with her.

Also depends on if we want to go deeper into the silver/gem area, or if we want to head into the magical wisp area. If we go for the wisps, probably want a more magic-capable team.


So, as much as I love Linnea too, I'm going to go with a slightly peculiar config with the hidden option, and the chance to just have fun breaking things and blowing stuff up. If they really are going in to blow up spawners, it'll be a rather rare opportunity to join them.

[X] Du didn't seem like a bad sort, seek him out
[X] See if Inila and Gemnus are interested in teaming up.

Adding:
[X] Buy Adamant Skin if we still have 5 shards

 

[X] Linnea
[X] Du didn't seem like a bad sort, seek him out
[X] You could use someone magically inclined

Hang on to Linnea, and try out both Du and (most likely) Lona. That'll give us some basic experience with all of the advocated characters. Then we can get the great big ugly salt-inducing "what's our core party" vote done tomorrow and move on.

...and if this little group means that we'd have to push deep into the dungeon to get a challenge, that's *great*.

so, pondering looking forward, as far as priorities among the new skills...
- I think we skip the weapon skills until we run into a significant weapon upgrade of one of those types, or just don't have anything else to do with shards. No need to invest in things we might not use when we have things we will use. If we're at the "too many shards" point, then we go with unarmed first.
- Adamant Body is an obvious immediate buy. It's an obvious support for our core competence.
- Warrior's Intent, Mountain's Fury and Blaze. If I had to choose between them, I'd unlock them all before trying to max any of them, so as to get a clearer idea of what they do.
- Drink is interesting, but sidebar. It might have some synergies with Steel Stomach.
- Brew is... funny, but probably not worth it to prioritize. There are crafters in town, we already have a way to use ingredients ourselves, and we're better off not wasting stat points into dex, I might get it after shardmaxing Unarmed. We're already going to want to bump presence a bit to support Warrior's Intent and Warrior's Challenge. We don't need to make ourselves *more* MAD.

edit:
[X] Buy Adamant Skin if we still have 5 shards
...because that's a darn good idea.

 

vote change

[X] Du didn't seem like a bad sort, seek him out
[X] See if Inila and Gemnus are interested in teaming up.

[X] Buy Adamant Skin if we still have 5 shards

 

Added your Passive to the front page. Forgot to copy it out of my stats doc earlier.

Yeah you can try to tag along with the twins if you want.

 

Yeah... this is enough to make me think we don't need to take Linnea with us today, and I want to continue finding new people/making relations. So switching to:

[X] Du didn't seem like a bad sort, seek him out
[X] You could use someone magically inclined


Also, yrsillar, can we also add:
[X] Buy Adamant Skin if we still have 5 shards

 

Sure.

 

[X] Du didn't seem like a bad sort, seek him out
[X] You could use someone magically inclined
[X] See who shows up.

[X] Buy Adamant Skin if we still have 5 shards

 

Agreed. Between Du's enhancements, and a bit of natural recovery, we should be pretty solid in survivability.

If we don't end up going with the twins, and we don't take Linnea, I'd probably want to keep a team of three rather than four, though. I'd likely go with Du and the magician (probably Lona), since between Du's boosts and the Oni passive, we should do pretty well with the known challenges, and Lona's firepower should give us an extra edge with minimal risk. (Also, Lona may come with her captain of the guard, bringing us back up to four.)

Adding a fourth to that team would be overkill for anything we could hit without significant injury risks, which means we'd want the healer back again, which kinda negates the purpose of the setup.

Basically, I'm looking at:

[] Du
[] Twins

as my primary choice, ending up with four simply because the twins are a package deal (and because between Inila's potions and Gemnus's golems, adding a healer for support doesn't seem necessary). My second choice would be:

[] Du
[] Magician (Lona)

keeping the team at three (or four, with the captain).

Going to add this to mine, as well, then.

 

Good point- Yuuka even thinks that anything more than 3 is overkill, so we have IC belief of this too. Switching my vote again to reflect that.

And, yes- the twins could be an interesting thing, if only because if they come to rely on us whenever they want to get past a threshold for levelling it might mean getting discount/first pick/whatever. I'm just more inclined to go Du/Magic first, especially as Du also fits in the 'support' role.

 

[X] Du didn't seem like a bad sort, seek him out
[X] You could use someone magically inclined

[X] Buy Adamant Skin if we still have 5 shards

I'm interested to see how our stat points per level increases. I'm assuming it does, but I don't know if it's based on the level or Job rank or what. My instinct is that it would be more mechanically sound to base it on the level. So maybe levels 5+ give 3 stat points, 10+ give 4, etc.. The reason this appeals is basing it on Job rank incentivizes weird playstyles where you can permanently lose out on potential if you don't rush increasing your Job as quick as possible. Job ranks increasing the stat caps also feels more intuitively in line with stat increase rate being level-dependant because then you have to "keep up" to your levels with your job. The caps are high enough that doesn't seem like a real risk until higher levels anyway. It doesn't matter too much either way, but I'm hoping it isn't based on Job rank.

@yrsillar Does the enemy armour rank reduction from Greatclub apply before or after the damage is dealt by the successful attack? If it applies before, then our minimum damage on a successful attack (on an armoured foe) is 4. Otherwise, it is 3. Just curious.

 

It applies after the attack

 

Part of the reason to bring Linnea with us is to make sure that she doesn't get snapped up by some other group who'll want to convince her to stay with *them*.

Worth noting that with that lamp, assuming Linnea makes the obvious shard buys this round, she's a lot more appealing as a group member. Adding a viable at-will attack will do that.

Also, we're not going to wind up grouping long-term with the twins. Most days, they won't be heading into the dungeon at all.

 

... that's not a good reason at all to bring her around. Like, seriously, this is a good reason to actually not bring her around. It's not like there is only one healer around, and going 'you aren't allowed to party with other people' is feaky as shit.

This has nothing to do with the main argument for not bringing her along- wanting to meet more people in order to have better relations from the get go and being able to switch party memebers as needed later on as well as possibly making alliances between groups.

That's actually a good argument for taking them today. I am not voting to do that, but...

 

"Not allowed to"? No. If she doesn't want to group with us, we're not going to force her - but long-term, there are very few healers around, and we'll do a lot better if we have one of them on our side. People are already pretty much grouping up. As time goes by, that's likely to happen more and more. Establishing a long-term group, where we can learn to work with one another, and build to better support one another, is sure to help us, and in that group we're going to want to have a healer. Given how much she needs a front-line fighter to support her, if we're not planning on grouping with her pretty much every day, she'll eventually find someone who is.

Having looked at the situation, I personally don't think that we should be building a hot-swapping team. We should be building a semipermanent team. If the team loses members, then we can worry about picking people up, but as long as we manage to keep everyone alive, that won't be an issue, and in the meantime, our overall effectiveness will benefit from having a consistent group. We're also a bit early for alliances. We're probably better served trying to build friendships, and those can be handled with conversations in downtime.

If our main objective to taking new people is in identifying who to pull into our long-term group, then the fact that they cannot and will not be part of that group is a strong argument to not take them.

 

[X] Murdan
[X] Du didn't seem like a bad sort, seek him out

Best to keep in contact in case Du's later skills lets him permanently enchant armor or something else awesome. Plus, it'd be neat to see what happens if he buffs Murdan's faeries.

 

I think part of the reason for the difference in opinion is that Arkeus doesn't consider Linnea absolutely necessary. Not because having a healer isn't awesome, but because she isn't the only choice. The most obvious choice maybe, and probably the most potent, but not the only one. Murdan likely has access to healing somewhere in his depressingly broad skillset, Du should be able to at least make consumables more potent, heck even Yuuka should be able to handle healing, at least for herself, between Brewing and Drinking. The skills we have access to are more varied than I expected; I expect other characters to be similar.

That said, I don't think it's much of a worry. Linnea seems pretty chill and conveniently also not too great at proactivity. The chance of her getting snapped up into some kind of semi-permanent alliance that excludes Yuuka doesn't strike me as very high in the next few days.

 

So, I'm thinking about the economies of towers. Specifically, why aren't these things absolutely mobbed (more than they already are). Given the way things are working right now, even a few days of relatively safe grinding in a tower can give you a massive boost to basically everything you could possibly want to do back home. A couple of weeks will let you surpass anything you could ever have achieved without the tower, even if all you do is grind the weakest monsters there are. Why, then, aren't there more people?

- Difficulty getting there. For the most part, this is a fantasy universe, and the Towers are out at the edge of the explored map. That means a lot of travel, and that travel is some ugly combination of slow, dangerous, and expensive. Many either don't have the resources, or aren't willing to die.
- Surviving entry. Entering kills some people - maybe even most people. We're not sure *who* it kills for the moment, but a lot of the folks out there just don't have what it takes. Some degree of ambition and/or personal capability seems to be important here. This will also discourage people (at least, those who know of it)
- Tales and Legends. Most people will have heard huge numbers of conflicting stories about the towers. the bit where you can get up to mortal mastery quickly and relatively safely once you're inside might get lost int eh rush of epics of glorious heroes who died in the tower.
- Information travels slow. We got here in what looks like the first few weeks, while everyone's still setting up. The folks who are running the "guarded sleep" thing haven't even started putting together walls and a roof for their impromptu inn. We got here by being in the right place at the right time. Most people, though, would have to wait for the word to make ti to them, and word travels slow in a low-tech world. as the message goes forth, more people are likely to show up - but if the equipment upgrades on the skeletons are any indication, we'll eventually get to the point where the latecomers have real problems handling even the weakest of monsters.
- Bandits. There's a very real possibility that some of the folks who make it partway through the tower and then decide to go no further will turn to banditry... and those would be scary bandits indeed. Merchant caravans will be hard targets. The merchants are going to be in the tower/shard economy themselves, and likely will have guards that are as well. the travellers coming in, though, have no such protection... and it's a way to discourage the competition before they can become competition.

I notice, also, that there's another use for shards outside of the tower. They can be sold to people from completed towers, who didn't have the opportunity to finish all of their skills. Godsblood is godsblood, after all, and these are people with some real power in the world outside, who probably can't advance those abilities any other way (or at least not nearly so easily).

 

[X] Du
[X] Twins

 

Personally, I absolutely want Linnea on the final team. However, right now, there are a couple options where we can get away without a healer for the day, and I'd like to have time to spend with other character options.

For the twins, I don't expect them to be part of the final team. Their shops are too significant a part of their active life. However I wouldn't mind having them as actual friends, rather than continue to be nothing but customer #88. Ilina is highly reluctant to be social, and Gemnus is equally friendly with everyone. Neither one actually seems to be friends with anyone aside from each other.

Basically, the fact that they are not going to be in the final team is impetus for going with them. It's a bonding that isn't going to interfere with the normal team composition, while still improving connections to a couple of the important people of the campgrounds.

Also, I wanna blow up some sarcophagi.

However, for the purposes of identifying who we want on the final team, Du+Lona is pretty much the best option to get info we're notably lacking right now.

I largely agree, I think. The question then becomes, is there something that one of the people we haven't met yet can offer that would be a strong argument to allow them to replace an existing candidate?

Based on the people-watching descriptions, 5 people seems to be the max. Probably look into alliances if you need to go higher than that.

Current candidates:

Yuuka — Strong melee, good defense. Tank/hate gatherer. [mandatory]
Linnea — Healer. Some CC. Minor magic attacks. [no other options if we want to go for high-challenge stuff]
Du — Pure support. Boosts gear. Unknown other capabilities. [high value; no others in same slot]
Shadow — Strong DD with some unique skills, though they come at a cost.
Ansom — Strong physical DD.
Murdan — Broad magical capabilities.
Lona — Unknown specifics. Magic-based.

Du issues:
Du may not be able to boost Shadow's abilities, since her weapons all seem to be flesh-shaping.
Du probably cannot boost Murdan's summoned familiars.
Du can probably work well with both Yuuka and Ansom.

Shadow issues:
Social problems. She managed OK with Yuuka and Linnea (even with Linnea's simple bluntness), but I suspect would not get along well with Ansom or Lona. Murdan and his spirits are also likely to be very uncomfortable with her.
On the other hand, when you absolutely need something horribly powerful, she's probably the one that can pull it off in a pinch.

Ansom issues:
Potential personality issues with anyone of high station (eg: Murdan, Lona).
Somewhat redundant build vs Yuuka.

Murdan issues:
Very broad skill base means that, while he can fill about any role, there's probably always going to be someone better for any given role he fills. (eg: Linnea or Du for defense; Lona or Ansom for offense; etc)
Selecting him means we should have a well-balanced team without him, and he can shore up any weaknesses on demand.

Lona issues:
Not enough info.


My current inclination is a selection of 4: Yuuka, Linnea, Du, Shadow. However selecting a 5th out of the other 3 is problematic. All of them are likely to have issues with Shadow. Taking Ansom means we have little to no magic capability in the team. Murdan is unlikely to benefit from Du (unless Du can help with Murdan's 'stamina' issue, if there's equipment that helps boost it). And we just don't know for Lona. Would likely put Ansom and Murdan as first picks, with the choice based on how badly each of them deal with Shadow.

If I pare down to just start with Yuuka + Linnea, which other three would provide a good synergetic benefit? My first pick would probably be Du, Ansom, and Murdan. Being equipment-focused, both Yuuka and Ansom would benefit a great deal from Du's buffs, while Murdan provides a variety of magic options (and can possibly benefit from Du, given the right equipment). Lona is an option in place of Murdan. Mainly, though, it would be removing Shadow from the group.

However, while it's probably a better working team, I rather dislike dropping Shadow. I kind of got to like her, and she's likely to have a very hard time getting a team of her own otherwise (with the possibility of scary psychological damage if things go too badly).

An alternative without Du would be Ansom, Murdan, and Shadow. However that brings up the issue of healer strain. The more people the healer has to keep healed, the harder it is on them. Though I guess Murdan and Shadow would take little to no damage, leaving it almost entirely as what Yuuka and Ansom take.

Honestly, though, I'd still put Ansom as the lead of her own team. Just doesn't seem right to have her as second DD on our team, when she and Yuuka are filling such similar roles. Though having Du boost both of them would probably be pretty scary.


Going back to my original question, though: I see Du as having a high likelihood of being worth having on the team, but I don't see Lona as having a strong chance of displacing Murdan.

 

[X]Murdan
[X]Linnea
[X]Buy Adamanat Skin