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Dungeon Delver Quest (Original Fantasy... again)

Discussion in 'Questing' started by yrsillar, Nov 19, 2015.

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  1. Arkeus

    Arkeus Crazy cat guy

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    Sorry, I meant Quality 3.
    Totally, but we saw with GreatClub that the passive got an extension of application at C instead of simply a bigger bonus so I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happens again.
     
  2. yrsillar

    yrsillar Dapper Cthulhu

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    C rank crafting skills can make quality 3 stuff and maybe quality four given great materials and tools.
     
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  3. Sirrocco

    Sirrocco Tiny but ambitious squid

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    Ah. Cool. I can be wrong.
     
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  4. Pipeman

    Pipeman Well worn.

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    I can see some blunt damage reduction being a thing soonish, but I'd honeslty be surprised if it gives equal defensive bonuses against blunt damage before it's at the "physics is too intimidated to make even suggestions" level, since the reason that it doesn't do anything to blunt right now seems to be somewhat physics/fluff based.
     
  5. mrttao

    mrttao Connoisseur.

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    it seems to me that the reason it doesn't do anything against blunt is that it is adamant skin not adamant body. Its literally making our skin super tough and only our skin. So blunt force trauma is unimpeded, while piercing and slashing gets stopped.
    Also, it doesn't have to "evolve" into blunt, it could for example evolve elemental or magic resistance instead to maintain the "skin only" motif.

    or it can get blunt resist, only QM knows.

    EDIT: skill is actually called adamant body not adamant skin, so everything I said in this post is null
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2015
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  6. Grosstoad

    Grosstoad Whimsical Paranoid Creeper

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    The skill is named Adamant Body, though?

    Interesting about the Warrior's Challenge Active: Come at Me!, it is not going to get any improvement to the dice penalty until we get Presence 4... But at Presence 1, it already imposes the minimum 1 die penalty to the target.

    Still, improving the Passive or getting more effect from Warrior's Intent (if we take it) are probably the reasons to raise Presence.
     
  7. theBSDude

    theBSDude Space Ace

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    This one was right to start. It's Yuuka's bedroll.
     
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  8. Seventeen

    Seventeen 7th in primes, last in doing-things-with-my-life

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    Muphry's Law in action.
     
  9. Kinematics

    Kinematics Well worn.

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    Woops. Did I copy the wrong sentence and go into trance your/you're corrections?

    Oh, right.. that was it. The actual correction was "but" -> "up", and I just kept doing your/you're because of the other sentences.
     
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  10. mrttao

    mrttao Connoisseur.

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    huh, could have swore it was called adamant skin. Well that completely disproves every idea i ever had about it
     
  11. yrsillar

    yrsillar Dapper Cthulhu

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    Alright, looks like we're heading for the door.
     
  12. Darkened

    Darkened Experienced.

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    So I started writing out a big essay on why adamant skin is amazing and the bestest best thing ever, then realized that there are a few points of ambiguity in the rules that need to be settled to really evaluate it, as well as our current viability as a tank in general.

    yrsillar

    A few questions:

    1. The big one, for attacks, is a successful attack one that ties defense or exceeds it? IE: If you tie, it reads like you'd either miss or hit and do 0 damage. With skills this is very important. Does it count as hitting for purposes of something like Greatclub's basic (+2 damage, reduce armor quality) effect or is it a miss?
    2. Skills are listed as adding a standardized amount of dice to rolls, but this isn't explicitly stated in skill descriptions. Does Adamant Skin add passively to defense by virtue of simply being an E ranked defensive skill, then +2 to relevant damages above that or simply add +2 to relevant defenses or just +1 to all and +2 total to relevant ones?
    3. Similarly, how do skills that would add to the same basic dice pools overlap? For example, suppose we had a sword skill at B and a dodging skill at E. It could be read that our defense is attribute+6 (B rank)+1 (E rank), but that seems off. It could also be the that the higher skill applies, so just attribute+6, or that it would depend on the attack and how the character chose to block it. However, what of passive benefits? If dodge adds another +1 to our defense against ranged attacks, would that apply if we were using the B ranked swordsmanship skill to defend? Or is it simply all applicable skills stack?
    4. Unrelated to the above, for priority, is it tracked collectively or for each enemy? IE: If we use iron whirlwind to hit 10 enemies, is that raising priority by 1 for each enemy hit or a total priority value by 10? If it's a total value, is it impossible then for enemies to target multiple characters at the same time? Or is the priority rule more of a guideline?
    5. Likewise, do buff/debuff skills count as healing/attacks in general for priority purposes?
    6. How does Don't Run Away! work? Does "leaving melee" prevent them from attacking another another higher priority target over Yuuka or that they will start focusing on someone else but won't physically move away from Yuuka when doing so, or will only do so for other targets in melee range?
    7. Likewise, how long does it last? Is it an instant effect that stops an enemy in the process of disengaging from making a single attempt to do so? Is it a debuff that means an enemy won't disengage for the rest of a fight?
     
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  13. yrsillar

    yrsillar Dapper Cthulhu

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    1. You must exceed their defense for a successful hit.

    2. That is only really for offensive skills, I should have clarified that. In the case of Adamant Body it only adds what it describes in the passive.

    3. It depends on how you're defending against the attack and the situation, but generally you will go with the defense that grants the highest dice total. so in your example, the B ranked skill would be used for defense unless the characters hands were tied up and they were unable to defend using that skill.

    4. Each character has a priority number in battle, so yeah total priority ten. In the case of multitarget abilities it will depend on the placement of characters on the battlefield. Some enemies can manipulate priority or have 'AI' that might have them target characters out of order unless forced though. You're still on the babbies playground floor though so you haven't seen that.

    5. Buff skills work like healing, debuff works like attacks.

    6. It essentially forces them to target Yuuka regardless of current priority, unless there is another higher priority target they can hit without moving away.

    7. It's a debuff that affects the enemy for the rest of the fight, although bosses and other 'elite' enemies can have status clearing passives and/or abilities.

    Sorry for the slow update rate by the way. Hoping I can normalize things once the holiday stuff is officially over.
     
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  14. Darkened

    Darkened Experienced.

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    Wonderful. This means against 1-2 enemies, we're a relatively stable tank, however, any larger crowds are going to have us losing aggro fast to anyone with more AoE or even heals.

    Warrior's Intent will probably cover this, as large AoE should build priority fast and we start out higher by default.

    So I'd recommend our next ten shards go to Warrior's Intent and Mountain's Fury respectively to see what we're looking at. We can then build up the ones that look most promising.
     
  15. Grosstoad

    Grosstoad Whimsical Paranoid Creeper

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    Not sure how you get this from the quoted parts, mind explaining?
     
  16. Nanimani

    Nanimani Listening to music

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    [X] Iron Door?
     
  17. Darkened

    Darkened Experienced.

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    Priority goes up by 1 for each hit on any enemy. So if you hit ten enemies at once, you gain ten priority. By contrast, healing raises it by 2, and healing the highest priority target raises it by 3.

    Yuuka currently has a skill that has us start fights at 4 priority. Against a single target, we'll be gaining, with our skills, at most 1 priority per round.

    Presumably we'll be taking heals, and healers will otherwise be acting in a fight when not healing.

    So first round we attack or pop Don't Run Away! Yuuka goes from 4>5 priority. Everyone else attacks and goes from 0>1 or does something healyish and goes from 0>2.

    If we take damage, the next round Yuuka goes from 5>6, most DPS goes from 1>2 and a healer goes from 1>4. With a gap of 2, the second heal will invariably bring them even on priority with Yuuka, with a third on anyone bringing them into the lead.

    Without Don't Run Away!, we'd take at minimum 2-3 rounds to grab aggro back if the healer did nothing to heal or attack while they had the highest priority (unlikely). In practice, without skills, we'd probably lose aggro after the third heal on us and never get it back.

    However, Don't Run Away! lasts an entire fight and we have a large number of uses/day already. Against bosses we'll usually need to repop but there's generally enough to do so that it's fairly fine unless a boss is entirely immune to the skill, in which case we're in trouble. However the latter should probably appear farther down the line when we have more tools to hold aggro.


    At the moment, we do much worse against a crowd. Assuming everyone uses single target skills, the same numbers apply. However, with 8 enemies, when we lose priority that time to heals we can't get it back and couldn't feasibly hit Don't Run Away! on every enemy.


    That said, AoE is what should dominate in larger fights, the ones who can spam AoE will gain a ton of priority every round. Against 6+ enemies we'll lose priority on round 1 if we don't hit our own AoE. Yuuka's AoE, Arc Smash and Steel Whirlwind, are limited. Steel Whirlwind is 1/day with no target cap, and Arc Smash hits 3 at most. Both are limited to melee range. Someone with even 2 uses of a fireball type skill could easily grab enough priority to take the lead and keep it. Worse, they are more likely to be able to hit more enemies since they wouldn't necessarily be capped at melee range for their AoE.

    Warrior's Intent, described as focusing on attacking crowds, is likely going to be a natural fit for grabbing a ton of priority right away, even if the actual effects are very very weak across a wide number of enemies. This would largely remedy the problem, at least in anything but very drawn out fights.



    This is not a very immediate concern, and I definitely suspect that Warrior's Challenge could easily have something similar to a "Gain +1 priority per attack" passive at higher ranks which would solve our problem. That said, they're definitely a major concern in the mid to long term where we'll want a solution, and something to be wary of at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
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  18. Bailey Matutine

    Bailey Matutine (Verified Pooka)

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    So it sounds like we want a skill along these lines:
    Any thoughts, yrsillar?
     
  19. mrttao

    mrttao Connoisseur.

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    Remember that we actually do have AoE ourselves, and if we are fighting over 6 enemies we will use it because of the steep penalty to armor from being swarmed. So at that point we are producing a lot of aggro ourselves anyways.

    Also, we still have room to upgrade our aggro holding skill
     
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  20. Sirrocco

    Sirrocco Tiny but ambitious squid

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    Additional points

    - In-combat heals are still pretty rarely needed overall. Even without using any of our AOEs or other pertinent specials, we can still stay out ahead of a single heal.
    - Chugging potions is a heal action on ourselves. If we fire that off while we're still at the top of the hate charts, that's 3 points.
    - We haven't yet run into this as an issue, and our dailies from Warrior's Challenge should be enough to handle the problem the first time it comes up.
    - At least for the moment, even the back line folks can probably take a hit or two. Admittedly, this may get less and less the case as we go up the tower, especially if they don't invest in armor.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't think about it, but I don't think we need to worry about being proactive about it when we have this much ability to react to it already.

    Now, I agree that we should unlock Warrior's Intent and Mountain's Fury during our next skill-buy, but that's because they're two of our pretty obviously useful new skills, and unlocking them and figuring out what they do is just good sense. I think we'll also want to unlock Blaze, and we'll probably want to max them all in pretty short order. Our shard drops tend to be pretty healthy these days.
     
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  21. Threadmarks: Day 3: Heading In
    yrsillar

    yrsillar Dapper Cthulhu

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    “…let’s head on in, there’s a locked door I wanna check out,” you finish without missing a beat. “We can walk and talk at the same time,” you add as you begin heading for the exit.

    “So what do you actually do?” you hear Linnea ask as the four of you begin heading toward the tower.

    “Pardon?” Lona responds after a moment, apparently catching on that the little dryad is speaking to her.

    “Well, you said you weren’t a battlemage, so what kind of spells do you cast?” Linnea says frankly.

    You glance over your shoulder with an amused expression, “I gotta say the same. That little anti-eavesdropping trick was cool, but what kinda stuff do you have for actually dealin with enemies? You going to be full on support like Du?”

    Lona gives your purple skinned companion an assessing look, which he returns with a slightly defiant expression. You’re not exactly sure what’s going on there. In any case, Lona responds quickly enough. “I follow the universalist school of thought. I prefer not to pour my entire focus into any one school of magic. Allow me to be more clear. I admit, evocation was not a school I which I had placed as much effort toward mastering before coming here, but I am capable in it.”

    “Which doesn’t exactly answer the question,” Du points out dryly.

    “If I may finish,” Lona continues with only a single glance in his direction, “I have a large number of possible skills, although I must choose which to prepare for the day. I am currently prepared to fill a defensive role, given that I was not certain I would have companions today.” She lets out a very slight sigh, “I am still capable of acting offensively though, if in a diminished capacity.”

    You take a second to parse all that, “So you’ve got yourself set up to play defense, huh.” You aren’t really asking a question but she nods anyway. “We should be able to push pretty deep then, between you and Linnea. I definitely want you making my weapon better then, Du.”

    “Won’t be a problem,” he responds. “Once we get inside just let me take a look at it for a second.”

    “You are an enchanter of some kind then?” Lona asks.

    “Something like that,” Du responds, sounding slightly defensive, “My effects aren’t permanent enchantments though, they’ll last all day as long as you don’t wander more than a hundred or so feet from me, and I can change them once I set them up.”

    “Versatile,” the mage responds after a moment. “How then do you purge the thaumaturgic echoes of previous effects interfering with the addition of new enchantments? For that matter, what anchors the spells if not permanent runes?”

    “Ah… well, because of the nature of my spells the echo effect is reduced…” you turn your eyes frontward again as the conversation behind you starts going way over your head. At least Du has someone to talk to that understands what he’s talkin about.

    The flow of magi-babble continues on and off as you proceed to the towers entrance, and pass under the first set of arches you reach. Once you’re inside and away from the crowds, Du does his thing. It’s kinda interesting, one pass of his hand and a little glowy lightshow later and your weapon somehow feels both better balanced and heavier at the same time.

    Retracing your steps to get back to the door isn’t hard, given that the number of blown open sarcophagi has increased, leaving the path clear until you’ve reached the turn that heads down into the room you met Ansom in.

    “Gonna want to be ready,” you inform your companions cheerfully. “There were a crap ton of skeletons here last time, plus another one of the little buggers summoning more. Think you can take that down for us Lona?”

    “I would prefer Lady Estellor,” she responds, but she answers you’re question anyway. “I believe it should be no trouble. If you wait a moment, I can enhance the groups defenses as well.”

    Linnea hums thoughtfully, fiddling with her skull talisman, “Unless it’s those really big enemies, I don’t think Yuuka needs it,” she points out.

    “I’ve gotten a good bit tougher since yesterday,” you add a trifle smugly. “I doubt those big lugs could do more than scratch me now.”

    Du shrugs, “I’m not going to complain about the extra defense. Do you have enough uses to be spending skills on a relatively easy fight though?”

    Lona gives you an appraising look before answering Du’s question. “The minor abjurations I intend to cast will last for several battles.”

    “Save your spells rather than using them on me unless it looks like we have somethin really tough coming at us,” you decide. “Seriously, I’m kinda stupidly tough at this point, and the things in here seem too dim to really try to mob you guys instead of me.”

    “As you wish,” Lona responds , raising her crystal focus to begin casting her buffs on herself and the others. “Do not count on the stupidity of our foes for long though. The enemy which claimed my companion was not foolish, and many accounts of previous towers say that the denizens of the higher floors are far more cunning than the creatures below.”

    “I’ll keep that in mind,” you respond cheerfully. You will too, but right now, you’re basically a nigh unstoppable juggernaut to these things. Maybe you’re just feelin a little giddy over learnin a skill that only the most powerful Oni warriors ever learn though.

    “What were the enemies guarding the stairs anyway,” Du asks as the air around him shimmers, and you catch the slight distortion in the air of a shield of invisible force forming over his left side.
    Lona doesn’t answer for a few seconds, still going through the motions of casting her spells. “…A Lich and a death knight, or a Reaver as some call them. There were also numerous lesser undead. I only escaped via teleportation. The room physically sealed itself upon our entry.”

    You frown as Linnea prods the woman with questions on what those are. You aren’t exactly a scholar, but you do know that those are fairly high end nasties. You’ll definitely want to be prepared before you head on in. Either way preparations are complete shortly thereafter and then it’s on to the spawner room. There are over twenty skeletons already by the moment you enter, each armed and armored better than last time, with even a handful of the heavily armored and shield bearing ones mixed in. Most importantly, there are two skeleton’s in ragged robes.

    It hardly matters to you though, since you trust your companions to do their job, you just let out a warcry and smash into the skeletons front line and immediately smash three of them to splinters. Out of the corner of your eye you spy a quintent of colorful missiles of force trailing glittering light swerve right through the crowd to slam into one of the robed skeletons and send it down in a tumble of bones, and then you have to deal with being attacked en masse. The biggest problem, really, is the sheer number of foes. While rusty and ancient weapons bounce off of your bracers and even your skin, and even the sharp heads of the shield bears spears can be swatted aside, there simply isn’t enough room around you for every single skeleton to get in and attack, which means some attention goes to your companions.

    Luckily, Du can at least handle himself in melee, and you spy him at the edge of the mob fighting the handful of stragglers that aren’t trying to bear you down under the sheer weight of numbers, another skelton bursts into fragments after being swallowed by a tongue of green fire. Another sweep and another three skeletons shatter to bits, and the second spawner goes down, destroyed by another barrage of unerring missiles. One of the nasty fellas with spears actually manages to jab you hard enough to draw blood, but that’s the last interesting thing that happens in the fight.

    As the last skeleton gets powdered by your club, you turn and offer your party a grin, “See, told ya! Barely a scratch!” You glance down at your side, where the shallow slice from the spear was inflicted, and your smile widens as you see it closing up on its own, a testament to your sheer toughness. “Not even,” you add, amused.

    You almost gave me a heart attack charging right in like that,” Du grumbles. “You really are ridiculously durable though.”

    “It’s an interesting effect,” Lona comments idly as she eyes the dissolving skeletons, “Some manner of inborn magical effect?”

    “Something like that,” you respond simply. “It’s a technique people back home came up with to harden your skin and muscles.”

    Linnea nods agreeably, “Some of the older dryads can make their bark really thick and hard to cut or burn too, so that makes sense. Maybe I should level up my job a little.” She trails off thoughtfully at the last part.

    +5 Shards
    +6 XP


    Kind of a meagre gain given the number of enemies, but that’s how it is when fighting spawner types. Once you’ve split up the shards you continue onward, plowing through a handful of other relatively easy fights. Normal skeletons, even with upgraded gear, have almost no ability to harm you at this point, except in the case of overwhelming numbers, and with three other people with you all capable of attacking as well, numbers tend to dwindle quickly.

    +8 Shards
    +10 XP
    +2 Bonemeal


    Unfortunately it looks like someone else has already opened up the iron door, since it’s lying on the ground. Looks like someone disassembled the hinges. You can’t help but grumble a bit at that.
    “Huh, someone pretty good did this,” Du comments as you pass through the door frame. “No damage at all from the disassembly.”

    “That’s not exactly comforting,” you grumble. “If it was someone good then they might have already picked over any good stuff down this way.”

    “It would be a waste of our time to backtrack now though,” Lona points out. “Given the enemies we faced it is unlikely that this was done today, so most of what lies beyond should have…re-spawned.”

    “Suppose so,” you sigh, “We might as well keep going.”

    Your next clash is a bit rougher, mostly because you run into a platoon of those spear and shield wielding skeletopns backed up by mages again. You actually end up needing a heal after that fight, you don’t have a whole lot of defense against pure magic attacks like that. They go down pretty quickly to Lona’s missiles though and she apparently has plenty of those in stock, it’s after that fight that you accept one of her ‘shield’ spells, since it can defend against magic-y bullcrap.

    Soon though, you come to another split in the path, one hall continues straight on, and other… is a big ol’ archway done up to look like a demonic skull, with the door as the mouth. Wisps of semi-solid darkness drift out along the floor like some kind of inverted fog. You give that one look and grin. “Well, looks like I know which way to go,” you say cheerfully.

    Du glances between you and Linnea, “I’m going to get overruled aren’t I?”

    “Probably,” the little Dryad chirps.

    “I do not know why you simply assume that you know my mind,” Lona adds a bit dryly. “…However, given this groups ability, it is unlikely that whatever lies beyond will be too much. The chances of a mere elite creature exceeding the floor guardian is quite low, given what I know of these places.”

    “See, that’s the spirit,” you reply cheerfully. “Nothing ventured, nothing gained.”

    “Of course, it is also possible the room beyond has already been plundered,” the wizard continues. “In that spirit, I would ask you all if you would prefer for me to expend my more powerful defensive spells before we enter. If there is no elite enemy beyond this doorway, it will be a quite a hit to our groups… stamina.”

    “I’d rather be safe than sorry,” Du points out. “We’re doing just fine against the normal enemies with the lesser spells.”

    “But then we might run into a nasty roamer, like that banshee that killed a couple groups yesterday,” Linnea points out. “Then we’d wish we hadn’t used it for nothing. Yuuka is tough, so even if we run into a strong enemy I can keep her alive till Lona can cast her spells anyway.”

    “Both valid points,” the woman herself responds, before turning her eyes to you. “I believe the one facing the most risk should speak up though.”

    You frown, like she said those are both good points. You’re pretty confident, but do you want to go against a possible big enemy without full prep?

    [] Full Prep
    [] Just go with what you have


    ((Will update the front page later))
     
  22. Arkatekt

    Arkatekt Harbinger of Shitluck

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    [X] Full Prep
     
  23. Koden

    Koden Versed in the lewd.

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    [X] Full Prep
     
  24. Grosstoad

    Grosstoad Whimsical Paranoid Creeper

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    [X] Just go with what you have
    [X] Lick bonemeal off Du's bare backside, claim medicinal effects are stronger that way


    +crosses fingers+
    At this point, it is only a matter of a gamble and luck.

    Also, it is clear that we are now suggested to pick up Will, for magical defense.

    Or, can Du do something for that?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  25. Arkeus

    Arkeus Crazy cat guy

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    It doesn't matter if Du or Lona can do something about that- though I expect we'd need a amulet that enhance M.Def first before Du can help. Having the nominal tank of the team be the one with the lowest innate magical defence of the group is really not OK, especially when it's not just about damage but also debuff/etc, so we can be taken out of the fight really really fast.
     
  26. Hangwind

    Hangwind Versed in the lewd.

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    [X] Just go with what you have
     
  27. prandom

    prandom Definitely Trustworthy

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    [X] Full Prep
     
  28. Nohbody

    Nohbody Versed in the lewd.

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    [X] Full Prep
     
  29. Sirrocco

    Sirrocco Tiny but ambitious squid

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    [X] Just go with what you have
    [X] Eat a bonemeal


    edit: someone had the bonemeal idea a bit later on, and it seems like a good one. First, it'll probably buff us for the combat in some sort of semi-useful way. Second, bonemeal is the ingredient we're going to have a fair amount of, so it'll be good to know what the heck it does, while also getting an idea of what sorts of things ingredient-eating can do for us.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
  30. CptTagon

    CptTagon Prolific Writer

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    [X] Just go with what you have
     
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