Iustus Vitea
I trust you know where the happy button is?
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2022
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Wait, it's not Friday?No it isn't. Vote closes on Friday, that tally was just a test.
Checks date
Ah my bad
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Wait, it's not Friday?No it isn't. Vote closes on Friday, that tally was just a test.
Nope, gotta wait one more day
There's even an argument that, very slowly, Harmony was tearing down the Tribal Door on their own without having to use the WOLF like we did.So, given how ponies were doing fine for the last 1000 years, doesnt Harmony get some browny points?
Well, for Glory we presumably found the Door, and know what the Key is. It's a difficult one to get, but we know what it is.I like to think that a victory needs two things: a door and a key.
You need to discover what the door is. You need to discover what the key is. Then you need to acquire the key and take it to the door.
Apply this to the four known victory conditions, and see for yourself how far you are from anything other than Glory. Ignore all thread-optimist while making said analysis.
That's all i am comfortable saying, if that makes sense.
SH sacrament is a key in the same way knowing how to pass through the White or Branding Door is a key. it's just an intermediary step. the "Door" is probably on the Mansus Moon, but the key would be learning HOW to switch House of the Moon for House of the Sun, I think.Moon ending… we suspect that the SH Sacrament getting us to the Tower is at least moving in the direction of the Door, but have no confirmation. Though I suppose it may be the Door with the Sacrament being the key. But again, we don't know. Technically 0 steps in.
Alternatively, maybe the Memory of Light (Somehow I remembered it being called "path" of light) AND the Sisters are just the doors, and the key is something beyond that. After all we don't want to JUST reach Harmony, we then want to talk and teach it in that ending, or at least reach an understanding and alliance of sort.Harmony, again, we suspect the Memory of Light research will lead us to the Door, and I would assume the two Sisters are the key, but we aren't sure and definitely haven't "found them." Again, technically 0 steps.
that's valid too. I was thinking of the Regrettable Actions as Keys, and the problems we solve with them as Doors.Wolf Ending is probably, well, the Wolf itself as the Door, and a fully Stained Velvet as the key.
that's a good theory actually. Though I'd say that this is not subversion, but replacement. Subversion would be more of...Pretty sure I mentioned it in my omake but my theory on Harmony's plot is that it is attempting to subvert the Lores with its Elements. Something similar to how Forge subverted Flint.
So basically- Laughter subverts heart, Love subverts grail, Kindness subverts winter, Honesty subverts lantern, loyalty subverts edge while Magic subverts forge.
The Dreamlands subverts the Woods. (Wonder how that's going now?)
Now to move onto my concerns of Harmony's grand plan. I have three major concerns.
First, replicating the Intercalate. The major enforcers of Harmony's plan in this are a result of it replicating the most abominable crime. Sure it seems to have worked out great but any plan that has let's replicate the situation of the birth of the Wolf-Divided as a major part is a concerning plan.
Second, the state of the Manus. The house of the Sun and the wake are reflections of one another. That the Manus is a ruin makes one concerned about the real state of the Wake.
Third, and my most major concern is the side effects of Harmony's subversion of the Lores in regards to the worms. The Lores were used to shield the world from the worms. Heart for example is the Lore of the Great Protector of the world. Baldomare mentioned that somebody ensured some pretty powerful lore defenses got put up and otherwise the world would be Wormed. But if the defenses of the world are based on the lores what happens when that lore weakens due to Harmony's subversion efforts? That the Elements seem to have an attractive quality compared to the lores to the worms only makes things worse.
I'm still wondering how not being a pony would change interactions with the Mansus, and particularly branding and tribal doors.What would be some interesting negaverse characters we could have created?
Why wouldn't it stand? This Quest runs off of CS lore so the Glory is literally the light of creation. The Wake is the reflection and rarefactions of the Glory. The Aspects aren't just fancy ways to do Magic they're the laws that govern the world, you know stuff like gravity, the strong nuclear force and all that jazz.
Dude Harmony doesn't even know the Worms exist so that doesn't track, also I would like to once again point out the fact those are lesser Worms.Baldomare, to be fair, does NOT know if Harmony added similar defenses. She can't know. And the Elements of Harmony and Alicorns are able to deal with Worms in a way that seems beyond what the Lores could do, so again maybe the element virtues are meant to be a replacement better suited to deal with them.
Well seeing as there isn't an Hour whose service we can enter into we'd have to sneak in through the cracks and gaps in the Walls of the Mansus like our predecessors once did.I'm still wondering how not being a pony would change interactions with the Mansus, and particularly branding and tribal doors.
And the Temple of Wheel stands (stood) as a proper temple!Correct me If I'm wrong but the Stag Door isn't broken in this continuity is it? So that means the Lithomachy went way differently and yet also not all that different.
Because I wouldn't put it beyond Harmony to replace the Mansus with something else.Why wouldn't it stand? This Quest runs off of CS lore so the Glory is literally the light of creation. The Wake is the reflection and rarefactions of the Glory. The Aspects aren't just fancy ways to do Magic they're the laws that govern the world, you know stuff like gravity, the strong nuclear force and all that jazz.
Have you met Harmony and asked her?Dude Harmony doesn't even know the Worms exist so that doesn't track, also I would like to once again point out the fact those are lesser Worms.
I mean we can assume certain things went the same, the Tide was swallowed up by the Grail, the Colonel and the Mother of Ants worked together to kill the Seven-Coiled, the Horned Axe still survived and demanded that the Thunderskin be killed, the Moth erupted out from the Wheel and so on.It's actually not clear how the Lithomachy went down at all, and it seems plausible things are very different from CS canon.
Now I don't know MLP lore so I may be wrong here. But Harmony didn't literally create the world or single handidly maintains its existence. It is not the linchpin from which all springs, in this continuity Harmony too is a reflection of the Glory and while it may rise to an Hour like status in that it is through which the Glory's light is reflected and coloured I really don't think it's going to replace the Glory.Because I wouldn't put it beyond Harmony to replace the Mansus with something else.
Or at least to change it so much it's basically the same thing.
I mean if we're throwing things like sapience, sentience and an ability to plan right out the window then there isn't really an argument for Harmony on this basis is there? Either it knows and can't (or won't) communicate but still has a plan that's gonna fail, or it isn't capable of that degree of thought and the side effects of it's basic functioning are insufficient to protect the world.
To be fair we don't quite yet know what Harmony really is.Now I don't know MLP lore so I may be wrong here. But Harmony didn't literally create the world or single handidly maintains its existence. It is not the linchpin from which all springs, in this continuity Harmony too is a reflection of the Glory and while it may rise to an Hour like status in that it is through which the Glory's light is reflected and coloured I really don't think it's going to replace the Glory.
the only path they have been proven sort of correct has been Glory though.Also, I feel it's a pretty safe bet to assume ignorance is the problem here because for each of the endings the broad strokes path the Master gave us has been correct; get past the Tricuspid Gate and reach Glory, get to the House of the Moon and use it to reverse the decline of the Mansus, reach Harmony tell it about the Worms and teach it to hide.
One thing, there is no other Mansus there is only THE Mansus because the Histories spring from it.
True but from a purely gameplay/meta perspective I'd assume my point holds.how? no idea. We only have an idea of how to reach them both, but that's it.
One thing, there is no other Mansus there is not THE Mansus because the Histories spring from it.
The Chandler is possibly one of the Hours. It has been attested by her Names that there are other worlds, with other Manses.
What I meant was that there is only the Glory and then there is the Mansus and from there are the Histories. There may be other Mansus but there is ever the single Glory because the Glory wasn't always there. I'm talking out CS and BoH lore here, the Glory wasn't always a thing after all, there was a time before and there may be a time after it. The other Mansus may have something like the Glory when even the Histories are so wildly divergent and it isn't a given there even are other Mansus because the Chandler is so steeped in mystery anything related to them is suspect.If there's other Manses, there's other glories. A Mansus without a Glory is meaningless after all.
We've been over this before, if Outsider is a term for something from Nowhere then someone would've blown open the lock a while ago, Baldomare would've commented and one other argument that I can't remember right now.After all, the Outsiders have to come from somewhere. Unless that's just the term from beings coming from Nowhere.
uh. Could Discord just be the Name of a God-from-Nowhere?
Baldomare, to be fair, does NOT know if Harmony added similar defenses. She can't know. And the Elements of Harmony and Alicorns are able to deal with Worms in a way that seems beyond what the Lores could do, so again maybe the element virtues are meant to be a replacement better suited to deal with them.
While I like the idea, presumably Baldomare already checked (she mentioned she'd check, right?) and if they've hold on for this long, it's unlikely a few more months will make a difference, especially considering how damned BUSY we are.Who knows? Not us, that's who.
You know we could probably have an expedition to check on the wards. Baldomare to find them, Velvet Axe to take us there and Biedde to deal with any worns.
Given everything with Akulites, I'm surprised no one brought them up when Velvet was designed and the "family" option was chosen. Then again, reading through the posts back then, the pony aspect was the primary focus over anything involving Cultist Simulator.on a side note, I probably would NOT take Family again. Family has been the largest malus for us.
It also assumes that the wards are actually a single physical location and aren't just, like, diffuse metaphysical stuff. The closest I could think of would be the Dreamland w/ the cutie mark doors, and we've both already been there and generally avoid it for obvious reasons.While I like the idea, presumably Baldomare already checked (she mentioned she'd check, right?) and if they've hold on for this long, it's unlikely a few more months will make a difference, especially considering how damned BUSY we are.
Nah, we have a free social action. Studying still takes an AP commitment.
While I like the idea, presumably Baldomare already checked (she mentioned she'd check, right?) and if they've hold on for this long, it's unlikely a few more months will make a difference, especially considering how damned BUSY we are.
It also assumes that the wards are actually a single physical location and aren't just, like, diffuse metaphysical stuff. The closest I could think of would be the Dreamland w/ the cutie mark doors, and we've both already been there and generally avoid it for obvious reasons.
sure. As I said, good for the story, bad for our objectives.Given everything with Akulites, I'm surprised no one brought them up when Velvet was designed and the "family" option was chosen. Then again, reading through the posts back then, the pony aspect was the primary focus over anything involving Cultist Simulator.
I personally think that even with their "drain" on our actions, having a family has only helped the quality of the quest overall.
In that case we'd want to wait until we're done with the Sacrament anyway.It would definitely be a long term thing but there could be interesting rewards.
The information alone is valuable and I'd expect high level Secret Histories and Heart scraps.
In that case we'd want to wait until we're done with the Sacrament anyway.
No not really, Glory is much more interesting than Harmony, and it's way too late to claim the moral high ground. Besides highly doubt reaching Harmony would fix Regrettable Actions and the longer we take the greater the risk of something happening that results in another being picked.Presumably, there will be no replays/save-scumming later on, so wouldn't it be fun to pivot to harmony? It is arguably the best option if we are to play this as morally righteous.
What's the worst that could happen? When the Wolf is backed into a corner, it'll still be on our side.
No matter what, we win.
I don't think the Worm that made Nightmare Moon was a lesser Worm.Dude Harmony doesn't even know the Worms exist so that doesn't track, also I would like to once again point out the fact those are lesser Worms.