Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Diamondfiend]

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards
-[X] (TROOPS) "I will be in there. Watch for imposters."
-[X] (LORES) "Try to keep up."

 

[DelightedOne]

[X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing

 

[Cochimetl]

[X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing

 

[SolemLupus]

[X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing

 

[Demilich]

[X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing
-[X] (TROOPS) "I will take point."
-[X] (LORES) "Try to keep up."

 

[Sk1lz3r]

[X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing

 

[spiderhellian]

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards

 

[des-pair-2]

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards

[X] Plan: Practical Demonstration

And I will make this Plan, just so people know it exists.

[X] Plan: Maximum Safety
-[X] (TROOPS) "I will take point."
-[X] (LORES) "Lucky Brush and Steady Step will be our on-the-grounds expert."

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards
-[X] (TROOPS) "I will be in there. Watch for imposters."
-[X] (LORES) "Try to keep up."

I really hope to hunt down a Worthy Opponent in there to avoid Biedde beating the crap out of us and then getting to carve Velvet's soul if we win. I do not trust him.

Failing that, I hope for Artifacts, or bits.

 

[DelightedOne]

I really hope to hunt down a Worthy Opponent in there to avoid Biedde beating the crap out of us and then getting to carve Velvet's soul if we win. I do not trust him.

Click to shrink...

You know what? Good point, even if we don't have a 100% chance of finding one.

[X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards

 

[Random Anon]

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards
-[X] (TROOPS) "I will be in there. Watch for imposters."
-[X] (LORES) "Try to keep up."

Don't see why so many people are interested in maximum suspicion minimum rewards. Maximum immediate security, but c'mon.

 

[Greymere]

Don't see why so many people are interested in maximum suspicion minimum rewards. Maximum immediate security, but c'mon.

Click to shrink...

Mostly I just think we don't have much reason to believe that a half-built proto-hive will have that good of loot or a strong enough opponent to be counted as Worthy. Bird even pointed out that this is a job expedition, not a 'vault' expedition, and we shouldn't necessarily expect it to explode into loot.

And I mean. We've seen examples of that already. The Luna-finding and Twilight-rescuing expeditions did only exactly what they were intended to do, and no further. I wouldn't be surprised if our only 'loot' for Tall Tale is "you did a really good job and won't need to deal with any loose threads from this hive". Hence, going for the extra free Lores, since those will definitely and measurably bring us closer to having actual cult benefits like a cadre, a ritual site large enough for 3 circle rituals, and infrastructure bonuses. Also the sooner the entire Bureau is Lore'd and "initiated", the sooner we can stop worrying about information leaks happening because our people didn't know any better re: not telling Eclipse things we don't want them to hear about.

 

[Solace2117]

And I mean. We've seen examples of that already. The Luna-finding and Twilight-rescuing expeditions did only exactly what they were intended to do, and no further. I wouldn't be surprised if our only 'loot' for Tall Tale is "you did a really good job and won't need to deal with any loses threads from this hive". Hence, going for the extra free Lores, since those will definitely and measurably bring us closer to having actual cult benefits like a cadre, a ritual site large enough for 3 circle rituals, and infrastructure bonuses. Also the sooner the entire Bureau is Lore'd and "initiated", the sooner we can stop worrying about information leaks happening because our people didn't know any better re: not telling Eclipse things we don't want them to hear about.

Click to shrink...

As a counter point I don't know that the Bureau is ever going to be fully leak free. We're not teaching everyone lores, it seems more like we're focused on specific members we know we can trust. The point and full lore option also has the most risk despite teaching moth. Eclipse seems to be Celestia's "cult" in the same way the Bureau is ours and they have the advantage of not having to hide it in the same way we do. I also don't think the Bureau is ever going to be as useful as we want it to be because it's not a pure cult. It has specific goals. Those goals are useful to us, but I doubt we'll be able to utilize them in the same way we do our own followers or a more pure cult.

 

[Alan975]

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards

 

[Greymere]

As a counter point I don't know that the Bureau is ever going to be fully leak free. We're not teaching everyone lores, it seems more like we're focused on specific members we know we can trust. The point and full lore option also has the most risk despite teaching moth. Eclipse seems to be Celestia's "cult" in the same way the Bureau is ours and they have the advantage of not having to hide it in the same way we do. I also don't think the Bureau is ever going to be as useful as we want it to be because it's not a pure cult. It has specific goals. Those goals are useful to us, but I doubt we'll be able to utilize them in the same way we do our own followers or a more pure cult.

Click to shrink...

...yes, because the Bureau, currently, is just starting out as a Lore institution. How much of the Bureau is "in the know" is directly proportional to how far along we are in Lore development. And quite frankly, the Bureau could do nothing but give us a cadre bonus and a place to do three circle rituals so we can actually summon lesser spirits and I'd still consider it worth it, considering how allergic people seem to be to taking any meaningful action to acquire a three-circle ritual site.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I personally don't think maximal chance of suspicion/0% chance of loot/2 Bureau Lores is worth more than minimal chance of suspicion/?% chance of loot/1 Bureau Lore.

Mostly because Name Befriendings and some of our Sacraments happen to be rather expensive (looking at you, Long Expeditions and Nuclear Enrichment Program).

 

[DelightedOne]

Should we take a Commissioner action to talk with Midday Dew again?

If a solo velvet plan wins it won't really reduce the amount of turns we need to turn the Bureau into a proper cult so we could check if something leaked to Eclipse, unless we get a roll or warning to see what happens first.

 

[Solace2117]

...yes, because the Bureau, currently, is just starting out as a Lore institution. How much of the Bureau is "in the know" is directly proportional to how far along we are in Lore development. And quite frankly, the Bureau could do nothing but give us a cadre bonus and a place to do three circle rituals so we can actually summon lesser spirits and I'd still consider it worth it, considering how allergic people seem to be to taking any meaningful action to acquire a three-circle ritual site.

Click to shrink...

And that's fair as far as Bureau use goes, but teaching them Moth by taking point does nothing to reduce the risk in the immediate scene. No matter what troop option we pick, it teaches a lore if Velvet goes full lore. It's just a matter of if the extra lore is worth the risk. Also Eclipse is a government organization as well. Unless we can deal with Celestia, there's probably always going to be some risk. Sure Selene is going to approach us about it soon, but considering how long it took to heal Luna, I doubt it'll be a quick fix.

I don't really find the middle ground options appealing. They reduce risk, but offer little gain in return. Going point and full lore, could be an awesome scene, but greatly increases opsec risk for an extra Bureau lore. I don't know if that risk is worth it.
Going solo and full lores, gives one lore, reduces risk, though it's still there and takes a chance on some possible benefits. No guarantee, but even some extra bits could be helpful. It does increase the risk of injury, but the scene could be just as awesome.
Going point, least lores is the safest option while still guaranteeing some benefit.

 

[DelightedOne]

Sure Selene is going to approach us about it soon, but considering how long it took to heal Luna, I doubt it'll be a quick fix.

Click to shrink...

To be fair, Luna was damaged by a thousand years of nonstop-out-of-the-World torture + offensive trauma ritual by Moth 7 Name.

Celestia snapped after seeing her beloved city be overrun with monster after realizing she lost her sister again + 1000 of repressed frustration and rage.

Celestia is also awake and aware of the issue while Luna was asleep and diminished within Selene.

 

[Solace2117]

To be fair, Luna was damaged by a thousand years of nonstop-out-of-the-World torture + offensive trauma ritual by Moth 7 Name.

Celestia snapped after seeing her beloved city be overrun with monster after realizing she lost her sister again + 1000 of repressed frustration and rage.

Celestia is also awake and aware of the issue while Luna was asleep and diminished within Selene.

Click to shrink...

Counter point though she rolled one break point away from Daybreaker taking control. We've seen from Luna's dream exploration how much effort Celestia is putting into containing her. If it ends up being super easy to fix her awesome. Considering the doom clock, what we've seen of her mental state, and just to fact nothing good has come easy so far, I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

[X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing

I would like to see at least one turn with a proper cult before the final turn.

 

[Nevermort]

[X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing

 

[jelloloaf]

Imagine someone rolling nat100 against Biedde

In the old world would that be the Colonel playing a prank on Biedde?

Click to shrink...

Humor is a strategically suboptimal emotion. The Chiliad does not prank, he ambushes.

---

I've never been the most focused on the precise mechanical side, but the discussion around needing more artifacts sounds reasonable enough for me to feel justified in voting the option that I think will be the most fun to read.

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards

Hope everyone is doing well.

 

[Nevermort]

Don't know if it was already mentioned but we may be able to get some rewards for advancing our Bureau Lores before we hit all 9.

You only have one out of nine Lores unlocked for the Bureau, and I will measure the growth of your "cult" as you unlock more Lores. Talk to me again when we are at 5/9 or something.

Click to shrink...

Also we are fairly close to Forge 3 level for the library, need to find one more book or something like this. Not sure if we get industry benefits like we were supposed with previous cult though, but I'll be happy with space for three circle rituals.

 

[ses]

We've gotten 2 Lores introduced via turn plan, 1 via plot progression, and between 0 and 2 depending on this vote via unexpected rewards from taking actions related to the Bureau. We will almost certainly have at least half of our Lore Introductions be from outside of director/commissioner +1 Lore actions after this vote. I dont think we need to think of lore introductions solely in terms of "we will hit 9/9 by end of turn X", and we're best off treating each Lore Introduction as a delicious goody of whatever size we decide is appropriate to value a Lore Introduction. We will not only almost certainly get at least one more extraordinary lore intro before we finish (We could have Gotten Our Hoofs Dirty instead of introducing Lore on our turn plan and gotten lore intros without spending velvet AP!), but a three circle site and other cult benefits are not necessarily tied to the 9/9 number.

I personally don't think maximal chance of suspicion/0% chance of loot/2 Bureau Lores is worth more than minimal chance of suspicion/?% chance of loot/1 Bureau Lore.

Click to shrink...

This is how I feel as well. The 2nd lore intro is tempting, but ?% chance of loot AND going from minimal suspicion to maximal suspicion is too high a price to pay. If it was only one of those prices I'd be more on board with it.

 

[Pittauro]

so. I suddenly remembered...

Luna, the Princess of the Moon

Health: 7/7
General bonus: +30
Lores: MOTH 4, EDGE 4, WINTER 4, KNOCK 4

Click to shrink...

We have Knock 5.

We're getting Edge 5 this turn (if all goes well)

We're getting Moth 5 next turn basically for sure.

...I KNOW that Winter Sacrament is evil (though we've done worse, really), but damn, We could bring Luna to All-5 by turn 24 or 25 if we really wanted to!

(and no, Wolf Winter is still not an option to me. If we're fine doing evil stuff for power we should at least for the lesser evil).

Oh, right, and if we got Heart 4 we could teach the rest of the family up to that too. Though that's decently far away... but Mareinette lessons could bring us up in a couple turn if we really wanted it.

---

So I was thinking of expeditions and I had this hilarious thought.

You know how we can have our Names put their influences on creatures working for us.

Well as Axe is almost certainly going to be thrown at as many short expeditions as possible if we want to boost her chances of success we could have her buffed by an influence.

Given that her major weakness is social obstacles we could totally fix that by having her granted a max level grail influence.

That way she would have a plus 50 bonus for expeditions including social obstacles.

Now mechanically this is fine but narratively just imagine Velvet Axe getting a Grail influence from Mareinette.

Click to shrink...

I literally can't imagine Axe accepting that, hilarious as it sounds

I really hope to hunt down a Worthy Opponent in there to avoid Biedde beating the crap out of us and then getting to carve Velvet's soul if we win. I do not trust him.

Failing that, I hope for Artifacts, or bits.

Click to shrink...

You know, after noticing that it's actually viable to get a +25 combat score from character creation (and actually a fair bit more than that!), I'm a bit more hopeful about finding an opponent.

Though it would be annoying to have wasted the Biedde action. Maybe we'll get double lucky and it's also refunded?

As a counter point I don't know that the Bureau is ever going to be fully leak free. We're not teaching everyone lores, it seems more like we're focused on specific members we know we can trust. The point and full lore option also has the most risk despite teaching moth. Eclipse seems to be Celestia's "cult" in the same way the Bureau is ours and they have the advantage of not having to hide it in the same way we do. I also don't think the Bureau is ever going to be as useful as we want it to be because it's not a pure cult. It has specific goals. Those goals are useful to us, but I doubt we'll be able to utilize them in the same way we do our own followers or a more pure cult.

Click to shrink...

Definitely not the same as a pure cult, but we might be able to give "off-the-record" jobs to the "loyal" agents. After all, they're loyal. Some or even all of them will even believe (not completely wrongly so) that they're serving Luna, not Velvet.

...yes, because the Bureau, currently, is just starting out as a Lore institution. How much of the Bureau is "in the know" is directly proportional to how far along we are in Lore development. And quite frankly, the Bureau could do nothing but give us a cadre bonus and a place to do three circle rituals so we can actually summon lesser spirits and I'd still consider it worth it, considering how allergic people seem to be to taking any meaningful action to acquire a three-circle ritual site.

Click to shrink...

I just know the 3-circles ritual site is waiting right there, at the end of Canterlot part 3, mocking me!

Don't know if it was already mentioned but we may be able to get some rewards for advancing our Bureau Lores before we hit all 9.

Also we are fairly close to Forge 3 level for the library, need to find one more book or something like this. Not sure if we get industry benefits like we were supposed with previous cult though, but I'll be happy with space for three circle rituals.

Click to shrink...

It was mentioned once or twice, yes.

Also if we use the last study slot this turn on the edge book I think we get the bureau to Edge 2, so I'm hoping Bird will let us do it before the expedition actually begins as it just seems like the optimal pick (considering we're not willing to study knock 5 when we want it as a safety net for Baldomare).

This is how I feel as well. The 2nd lore intro is tempting, but ?% chance of loot AND going from minimal suspicion to maximal suspicion is too high a price to pay. If it was only one of those prices I'd be more on board with it.

Click to shrink...

Also really, besides the unknown chance of loot and worthy enemies...

I just think it's cool. Sometimes I'm fine taking risks for both potential gains and the coolness factor.

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards

 

[ses]

You know, after noticing that it's actually viable to get a +25 combat score from character creation (and actually a fair bit more than that!), I'm a bit more hopeful about finding an opponent.

Though it would be annoying to have wasted the Biedde action. Maybe we'll get double lucky and it's also refunded?

Click to shrink...

If we get wounded (or somehow get Personal Edge but I think that idea is pure undiluted copium) we get to refund the Biedde AP under the same rules as we refunded the snekrament AP. In other words time has already passed and we wouldn't be able to do Steppes FO because we're further in the month in-universe, but we would probably be allowed to research items we found in this expedition because the AP is taking place after the actions that have already happened.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

(or somehow get Personal Edge but I think that idea is pure undiluted copium)

Click to shrink...

Perhaps, perhaps. But a lot of Changelings did escape Canterlot, and so it's somewhat logical that their most impressive specimens are the ones that go on to make proto-hives. That and the fact it's a proto-hive implies there is a way to become a full hive, and that implies there is a pathway to queenhood for these creatures. Some sort of predecessor to all-ruling royalty. A... Princess, if you would. And our list of Worthy Opponents holds an awful lot of Princesses.

 

[ses]

Hmm... I just re-read the Crepuscule Jailbreak chapter, and the guards managed to roll 40 attack rolls total.

We had the absolute shittiest luck possible on number of guards for the Jailbreak, and we can expect that the Watchponies hurdle of the Jailbreak to be about as bad on the max roll we had to what to expect normally on assaulting a changeling hive.

It's very notable that even upon rolling max number of total enemies for Watchponies, we still didn't engage them all at once even after failing the Moth ambush roll, instead rolling 1d3+1 combatants out of the total to engage in, with the others not in the fight right away. So assuming that changelings use more zerg tactics (higher danger overall, lower individual combat bonus, but they're literally a bug hive) I still wouldn't expect us to hit more than 6 or 7 initial combatants on a max roll even if we fail the Moth roll to ambush (which was super damn unlikely in the Jailbreak and probably is the same difficulty here).

But considering that the Jailbreak's max number of guards Watchponies hurdle managed a total of 40 attack rolls, and we can expect the hive to be slightly higher number on average than the Jailbreak had at max... the chances of fishing for a nat100 actually starts to stack up. Of course, at +69 and A Confidant Certainty Velvet is going to be eliminating combatants much faster than Axe did, being much more proof against normal clashes due to presumably slightly lower changeling personal combat and much higher Velvet personal combat and Edge rerolls... and our ability to squish bugs will thin out their numbers and reduce the number of rounds. Especially if and when Velvet actually succeeds in ambushes or other Lore checks.

But I would probably be anchored at 40ish total attack rolls being tossed out fishing for nat100s. That actually kind of adds up. 6% chance of two wounds, more like a 33% chance of at least one wound. 18% chance of one wound if we only take 20 incoming attack rolls due to Velvet executing better ambushes against smaller groups preventing combats from lasting very long.

 

[Arrkhon]

Honestly I don't see how anyone expects to find a worthy opponent in this hive, a small pile of bits maybe(but doubtful, they don't really have a reason to stockpile them) but even the big hive had only one worthy opponent for Comet and I doubt that there's anyone close to that here